John Hagee Ministries

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Discussion by: kelphis79

What can be done about a church that violates its requirment to stay out of the political realm?

I read about a John Hagee Ministries(http://www.jhm.org/) which is a church located in San Antonio Texas. In February the church posted a newsletter, which is located at (http://newsletter.jhm.org/NewsLetters/JHM-Weekly-Update_20120213.htm), in which Mr. Hagee gives his opinion about President Obama’s re-election and explicitly suggests to the reader that they don’t vote for President Obama by saying “THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN!”. All tax exempt charities and organizations are prohibited from directly supporting or opposing a political organization or political party. If this is something that you have a problem with, I encourage you to go to the IRS website (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=178241,00.html) and file a complaint. John Hagee ministries does not show up on the IRS charity search but the company that owns the newsletters web domain, “Global Evangelism, Inc” does. The EIN is 74-1764843.  

The IRS has a very poor track record for penalizing these violations. In fact I was only able to find 1 story online about a church getting its tax exemption removed.

43 COMMENTS

  1. You should watch his sermons on TV.  A more repulsive man would be hard to find. No signs of compassion in him.
    He’s also a big proponent of Armageddon, the Rapture and the “Second Coming” and blind support for Israel, no matter what it does.

    • Hagee is trying to snatch souls from the fires of hell…what are you doing to save souls? What will you tell God Himself when he asks you why didnt you spread his word?…like Hagee? According to the holy book, those whom have snatched souls from the fires of hell shall be rewarded in Heaven. Also, Hagee never claims to be perfect, only human, like you and me. If he should have an unfortunate heart attack, that man WILL BE IN HEAVEN. Again, according to the bible, Hagee is spreading the word, just as God Himself asked us ALL to do. Your comment on Hagee is ignorant and REPULSIVE. That’s the problem with this world today, EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE GOD OUT OF IT. You should be thankful that Hagee is here, carrying the torch so maybe others will find their way to Christ. That man knows the bible and explains those things many people don’t understand. I too use to think people like him were crazy…but now I see, I was the crazy one who lost my way. I have never been to any of his sermons nor have I been to his church in Texas. I am not a holy roller nor one that preaches to others. Heck, my own grown children won’t listen to my advice when it comes to God stuff. I remember being in that place myself once upon a time. But I have had a lifetime to find God. Today, young adults DON’T have a lifetime because for those who believe, the Rapture IS COMING. Luckily, I met my future husband and he taught me what the bible means and how to be good. We don’t go to church every Sunday, like I thought we should be. And id been beating myself up over it then….We were watching Hagee one morning, and Hagee spoke of the cross and how we’re already bought with the blood of Christ. He explained certain scriptures in the bible, broke them down so soon, I was able to understand that through God’s own words, he accepts me with all my flaws, even the ones that I keep doing, like not going to Church, because I am human, with sin, not perfect at all, yet, God loves me and wants me in Heaven. He wants us to NOT sin but UNDERSTANDS Sin is just in our nature. Adam brought sin into this world. All this is why I am replying to you. I hope that you’ll maybe watch, DVR Hagee and I promise you, you will feel as if that message was just for you. Gods is wonderful and knows exactly what you need at this point in your life and he will use Hagee as a tool to reach you. I promise, watch the sermon and you will see what I mean. Good luck and God Bless you! In reply to #1 by bigJ:

      You should watch his sermons on TV.  A more repulsive man would be hard to find. No signs of compassion in him.He’s also a big proponent of Armageddon, the Rapture and the “Second Coming” and blind support for Israel, no matter what it does.

  2. This man is so repulsive. He demands others to act a particular way which is in alignment with his brand of Christian beliefs. Yet, he clearly has an eating disorder and suffers from the “sin of gluttony.” Why yell and demand others to get their lives in order, when his is clearly not? He lacks self-control. (Yes, many people are obese or morbidly obese, but they don’t go around demanding everyone else changes.) Hagee stands in front of the world and does just that.

    Hagee’s vitriolic attitude is anything but loving and compassionate. When I was transitioning from agnosticism, I would watch his show just for shock value.

    Basically the IRS fines a church and nothing else much happens. I learned that a minister of a church I used to attend was once sited and fined by the IRS. This is simply a slap on the wrist because she did not change her ways.

    My guess is that Hagee will either have his church collapse or he will first collapse of a heart attack.

    Personally, I would like to see any lawyer here organize/sum up valid reason’s that the IRS needs to start addressing tax issues with churches. It should be a national movement. Petitions, news shows etc. Hey even put it on a ballot. If people could stick gay marriage on the ballot, then putting church taxes is a way to get national exposure. I’m not sure about the technicalities of this, but more it needs to reach mainstream by whatever means..

    • In reply to #2 by QuestioningKat:

      This man is so repulsive. He demands others to act a particular way which is in alignment with his brand of Christian beliefs. Yet, he clearly has an eating disorder and suffers from the “sin of gluttony.” Why yell and demand others to get their lives in order, when his is clearly not? He lacks self…Hagee is trying to snatch souls from the fires of hell…what are you doing to save souls? What will you tell God Himself when he asks you why didnt you spread his word?…like Hagee? According to the holy book, those whom have snatched souls from the fires of hell shall be rewarded in Heaven. Also, Hagee never claims to be perfect, only human, like you and me. If he should have an unfortunate heart attack, that man WILL BE IN HEAVEN. Again, according to the bible, Hagee is spreading the word, just as God Himself asked us ALL to do. Your comment on Hagee is ignorant and REPULSIVE. That’s the problem with this world today, EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE GOD OUT OF IT. You should be thankful that Hagee is here, carrying the torch so maybe others will find their way to Christ. That man knows the bible and explains those things many people don’t understand. I too use to think people like him were crazy…but now I see, I was the crazy one who lost my way. I have never been to any of his sermons nor have I been to his church in Texas. I am not a holy roller nor one that preaches to others. Heck, my own grown children won’t listen to my advice when it comes to God stuff. I remember being in that place myself once upon a time. But I have had a lifetime to find God. Today, young adults DON’T have a lifetime because for those who believe, the Rapture IS COMING. Luckily, I met my future husband and he taught me what the bible means and how to be good. We don’t go to church every Sunday, like I thought we should be. And id been beating myself up over it then….We were watching Hagee one morning, and Hagee spoke of the cross and how we’re already bought with the blood of Christ. He explained certain scriptures in the bible, broke them down so soon, I was able to understand that through God’s own words, he accepts me with all my flaws, even the ones that I keep doing, like not going to Church, because I am human, with sin, not perfect at all, yet, God loves me and wants me in Heaven. He wants us to NOT sin but UNDERSTANDS Sin is just in our nature. Adam brought sin into this world. All this is why I am replying to you. I hope that you’ll maybe watch, DVR Hagee and I promise you, you will feel as if that message was just for you. Gods is wonderful and knows exactly what you need at this point in your life and he will use Hagee as a tool to reach you. I promise, watch the sermon and you will see what I mean. Good luck and God Bless you

    • Hagee is trying to snatch souls from the fires of hell…what are you doing to save souls? What will you tell God Himself when he asks you why didnt you spread his word?…like Hagee? According to the holy book, those whom have snatched souls from the fires of hell shall be rewarded in Heaven. Also, Hagee never claims to be perfect, only human, like you and me. If he should have an unfortunate heart attack, that man WILL BE IN HEAVEN. Again, according to the bible, Hagee is spreading the word, just as God Himself asked us ALL to do. Your comment on Hagee is ignorant and REPULSIVE. That’s the problem with this world today, EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE GOD OUT OF IT. You should be thankful that Hagee is here, carrying the torch so maybe others will find their way to Christ. That man knows the bible and explains those things many people don’t understand. I too use to think people like him were crazy…but now I see, I was the crazy one who lost my way. I have never been to any of his sermons nor have I been to his church in Texas. I am not a holy roller nor one that preaches to others. Heck, my own grown children won’t listen to my advice when it comes to God stuff. I remember being in that place myself once upon a time. But I have had a lifetime to find God. Today, young adults DON’T have a lifetime because for those who believe, the Rapture IS COMING. Luckily, I met my future husband and he taught me what the bible means and how to be good. We don’t go to church every Sunday, like I thought we should be. And id been beating myself up over it then….We were watching Hagee one morning, and Hagee spoke of the cross and how we’re already bought with the blood of Christ. He explained certain scriptures in the bible, broke them down so soon, I was able to understand that through God’s own words, he accepts me with all my flaws, even the ones that I keep doing, like not going to Church, because I am human, with sin, not perfect at all, yet, God loves me and wants me in Heaven. He wants us to NOT sin but UNDERSTANDS Sin is just in our nature. Adam brought sin into this world. All this is why I am replying to you. I hope that you’ll maybe watch, DVR Hagee and I promise you, you will feel as if that message was just for you. Gods is wonderful and knows exactly what you need at this point in your life and he will use Hagee as a tool to reach you. I promise, watch the sermon and you will see what I mean. Good luck and God Bless you!In reply to #2 by QuestioningKat:

      This man is so repulsive. He demands others to act a particular way which is in alignment with his brand of Christian beliefs. Yet, he clearly has an eating disorder and suffers from the “sin of gluttony.” Why yell and demand others to get their lives in order, when his is clearly not? He lacks self…

  3. “He’s also a big proponent of Armageddon, the Rapture and the “Second Coming” and blind support for Israel, no matter what it does.”

    But just to be clear he is no friend of Jews. He wants them to be safe and secure in Israel because he thinks that has to happen before the apocalypse.  He expects them to  be the first casualties of the apocalypse and except for those few who convert right before it they all go to Hell when dead. 

    He views Jews as just one more means to an end. He’s on the record for example, as saying that Hitler was on a mission from God because his persecution of the Jews led to the creation of Israel. 

  4. Getting hate mongers like this guy to lose their tax exempt status is the kind of cause I think US atheists/secularists should be fighting hard for.  More so than obnoxious billboards or starting another losing fight over “In God We Trust”. Keep in mind this will be an up hill fight though. Obama realizes that if he had the IRS crack down on this guy, as much as it would be totally legal, he would face a shit storm of unimaginable intensity from virtually the entire religious community, even the ones that think Hagee is a fraud. 

  5. Another thing to keep in mind is that this might be a better time in history to challenge churches like this.   Just about every poll that has been done in the last half decade has shown that less people consider themselves religious and a dramatic rise in people that consider themselves atheists/agnostic.   I know that doesn’t mean that they will all support the idea of taxing churches, in fact in my experience most atheists go through a phase where they want to protect churches from outside criticism.   But before it made sense that churches would get a free ride from the rules because no one could deal with the public backlash or no one really cared, i mean,  how else would it be other than letting churches do whatever the hell they wanted right?  I think this could be a beginning for making churches accountable to tax law just like the expansion of our knowledge in science made churches accountable for their explanations about how the universe works.   If we can get something started we may witness the usual regression by religious organizations that we have seen time and time again as they loose legal battles, and popularity among tax payers.  Flooding the IRS with complaints is a really good start even if it isn’t gong to solve the problem. 

  6.  I’m not seeing them anymore.???  Very odd  One was a cartoon about losing weight/belly fat, another about taxes. A few other blue highlighted, underlined words that I did not click on. Maybe it was a temporary glitch and a programmer caught it???

  7. I live in Ontario but am a UK citizen, so I can’t do anything to help in the USA, but I wish you the best in your efforts to slow or end the interference in Government by untaxed religion businesses. 
    Things in the USA affect Canada – we’re like the neighbor who somewhat dislikes you, but who is envious in some ways because you have so much power, wealth, etc.
    Our PM would like to have the backing of the faithful that USA political parties have, but we aren’t nearly as open or aggressive about it here, thankfully.
    Keep Charging Up The Hill….

  8. I often wonder whether organizations like the Hagee Ministries will collapse under their own weight. Give them free reign, and they will become so extreme and so offensive that even potential sympathizers start to back away.

    It would be difficult for a Democratic president such as Obama to go after this type of operation without a huge outcry from the Right.

    I wonder if Separation of Church and State really means that churches are exempt from taxation. Maybe it makes sense to say, the State can’t interfere with their teachings or beliefs, but whenever they step into the real world by owning bank accounts and property, the State can have its share.

  9. “I often wonder whether organizations like the Hagee Ministries will collapse under their own weight. Give them free reign, and they will become so extreme and so offensive that even potential sympathizers start to back away.”

    I wish that were true but I sincerely doubt it.  Especially as the standard of living for your average working class American continues to worsen. When people are unhappy they are much more open to finding scape goats.  Every article I read about these mega-churches, which are clearly businesses not churches in the traditional sense, they continue to grow even as religion in general goes down in the US. 

    “I wonder if Separation of Church and State really means that churches are exempt from taxation”

    I think there are some fairly clear guidelines. For example, preachers are never supposed to support specific candidates from the pulpit. I’m pretty sure that by these standards the mega-churches should easily lose their tax exempt status but I agree with you for Obama to go after them, especially before an election, would cause a backlash that would do him far more harm than good. Its unfortunate that the few sane people left in US politics face these kinds of devil’s bargains all the time. 

  10. BTW, Kat have you ever checked out Adblocker?  Just Google it or Adblock Plus (same thing). Its a great little ad on for Firefox and Chrome (perhaps other browsers by now as well) it blocks 99% of all ads, even most ads that are inserted into video streams.  Usually not needed for RD.net but really great for other sites with ads. 

  11. Thanks Red dog. I need it. I think I have malware on my computer and I know that my email was compromised a few weeks ago. Contacts of deleted emails were sending spam to me and other people I don’t know. I even got emails pretending to be me!! I’ve been reinstalling software and hopefully will get this fixed quickly.

  12. Sorry to hear that, sounds awful.  If you have Windows and you want a free virus program I would recommend Malware Bytes. I used it to clean up my mom’s computer and I asked a couple of friends who are techies and they both recommended it as the best free virus program for Windows.

    Another Firefox add on I use for security is NoScript. Its kind of a pain because it disables scripting on sites unless you specifically authorize them, and these days virtually all sites use scripting, but it gives an extra bit of security in case you land on a site that looks fishy. It also provides a really nice tool to analyze a web site before you authorize it for scripting. You can check various metrics and public reports from Norton, Google, etc. to see if that site has been reported for Malware, is really a proxy for a different site, etc.   Good luck.

  13. When I transferred my old account to the new one my image came out a male. I tried to change that image but it stayed a male. And if that’s wasn’t disgusting enough – I found this.

    Atheist Media
    Blog

    Your Daily Source of News & Videos on Science &
    Religion

    Friday, June 8, 2012

    Hagee
    Tells Atheists To Leave The Country

    John Hagee tells atheists that they can leave the
    country if they don’t like the worship of God because they are not
    wanted here and won’t be missed.

    Watch the whole miserable sermon on: Atheist
    Media Blog

    http://www.atheistmedia.com/…/hagee...

  14. I live in San Antonio and have been to a few of his widely acclaimed sermons. I really do not understand why people would go to this church or attend any of his “speeches”. In the time that I was there, lights and music with the accompaniment of the sorrowful noise of the crowd singing took over half the scheduled time. He spoke for twenty mins., they they returned to the same monotonous noise. He basically yells at all your wrongdoings, whether you commit them or not, and asks you to save yourself-advice you could buy for 2.99 in the self-help section at B&N. 

    As soon as the hour is over, his “flock” flee the “temple” with their 3 mpg tanks onto the road and cause traffic that is unjustifiable; and I have seen the prejudice. They hire “cops” (don’t think if its SAPD but ill check up on that-don’t want my taxes paying for Christian traffic control)who give the exiting believers the right-of-way and make the already moving traffic to a halt. You just have to see it to believe it.

    And to makes things more repulsive, these people, that have just left their place of worship, absorbing all of God’s word, pass by vagrants who pan-handle by the side of the road. (A smart tactic if the people ACTUALLY followed God’s word)

  15. Must agree with many of the posters here that Hagee gives me the creeps. I believe this man recently spoke in London and I find that as offensive as all the Jew/ Gay hating Imans Ken Livingstone used to invite. 

  16.    I can not say that I actually care much for John Hagee either. The little I have heard from him is only slightly better than Joel Olsteen. I see them both as money-hungry wolves in sheep’s clothing. And while I despise the corporatism of most mega-churches, I can not agree with the notion that “separation of church and state” means the government should tax churches. At the risk of sounding like Ayn Rand, the government taxes us too much as it is. If they tax the churches, then they will have “a say” in how churches should conduct themselves. At this point, we can kiss our wall of separation goodbye. So I think we should avoid that slippery slope. Uncle Sam has always kept her hands out of the church’s pockets, and I think we should continue this practice. Otherwise, the corollary would include the church receiving funding from the government. That would spell the end of our freedom of religion and reason – for which this site exists.
       Interestingly, the precedent for this comes from the opposite extreme. In the heady days of the new republic, the big question was whether or not we should continue the practice of taxing the people to give to the established church. There was a lot of support for the idea from many of the founders, but Tommy boy (Jefferson) fought for the end of taxation on behalf of the established state church (religion). People should be free to give to whatever cause they believe in, and these things should not be mandated by the State. He held this to be one of his three greatest accomplishments for which he hoped to be remembered. You have to love him for this as he seemed impossibly prescient in so many other areas as well. Interestingly, he saw the benevolent religion as a strength of the republic, not as a weakness of it, even though he himself was a rationalist and a Deist.

  17. I used to empower the pan-handlers by giving them handouts to be spent on beer too. Then I realized that I was just enabling them to continue their smug lifestyles. There are better, more creative ways to motivate these people into productive lifestyles than handouts. But if handouts must take place, I recommend the currency of food to curb abuses.

  18. It seems pretty gutless to even consider not trying to get the IRS or other government agencies to enforce existing laws, out of “political considerations”.  It’s not like it’s a new and controversial law. 

    On an aside:  Seems to me (from a distance) that Democrats are concerned about Democracy, and the Constitution, while Republicans only care about winning.  Does this mean the true purpose of Democrats is to be Good Losers.  (And sometimes to let the heat off the Republicans by cleaning up their mess for a few years until they’re ready for another go)?

  19. I read on the internet recently about churches violating the fact that they are not to be political in the pulpit.  They are doing it to see how far they can go.  Something should be done about it.  Church today is far more extreme and political compared to when I was attending church.  I guess they are trying to keep up with the times.  I do not think they should be tax exempt.  They are a money making organization run like a business.  When I was going to church years ago, the only one being paid was the preacher.  My friend and I went to church during the week to help the preacher do some of his work.  I think it was more charitable.  Today it is different although not in belief.  There are a group of Christians who are trying hard to get their members elected to government offices and want to make this country a theocracy.  This is what worries me about Romney and the fact that the religious right has taken over the republican party.  The group I am talking about is dominionism.  You can read about it on the internet.  They are also trying to get their beliefs in the military and in our schools.  They are a group that needs to be stopped.  I would say Hagee and Pat Robertson are part of the group.

  20. This is THE issue which must be addressed.  start with the hate monger make believe groups. It would be hard for “believers” to work against that. it of course has to wait until after the election. wwith the economic situation, why shouldn’t they pay their fair share.  Maybe people could relate to that.  even if it is just property taxes, to start with.  there is so much outcry about “free rides”, this is an excellent example of what is actually bankrupting our country.

  21. I am hopeful that the last 10 years or so has actually been a preambe to exactly that!!!!look what’s happened to them lately; a well thought out attack on their financial issues; their payoffs; their fortune in art,( probably stolen) along with more and more secular Americans could actually contribute to the implosion.  At the very least perhaps some tax money would come our way…..

  22. if it was just property taxes, I believe there would be less involvement.I don’t think the churches in TJ’s time owned the property the way they do now.  I doubt the forefathers ever envisioned the megacrap we are currently surrounded by.

  23. It’s such a shame that he has a congregation, but sadly there are weak and vulnerable people in our world who cling on like a limpet to anyone that comes across as bold, dynamic and forceful – oh dear, the reality of course is that the ‘minister’ is a bully nothing more nothing less.

  24. There are no such requirements, Matter of fact there are very few requirements, Seperation of Church and State, was simply the idea that the STATE did not become the CHURCH.. Freedom of religion is a right, Freedom of speech is a right. Every Church of every kind, including the Atheist church.. this might cause some hard feelings but it is in fact a Religion. Has its idea of whom should lead this country.  To attempt to deny this to any one part of the segment of our population, that attends a particular form of church would be unconstitutional.  As to the idea that our founding fathers did not think of a religious body owning property is nearly assinine. The Catholic church, and the Church of England where amongst the wealthiest orginizations, land and financial wise of there times.

  25. Yes, the Preacher was paid, and is salary was tax exempt, so is the house he lives in. There have always been in this country a group of christians trying hard to get there members elected to office, this is nothing new. As to extremetity, I would argue that the church has been signifigantlly tamed during the last 50 years or so.

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