16 COMMENTS

  1. If someone confesses to a belief in god, I expect them to:

    1. be homophobic.

    2. be judgemental

    3. be superstitious

    4. be petty, joyless, a grouch

    This is one of the stock characters in the movies.

    Then there is the syrupy Andy Griffiths Christian, who is basically a decent person, who becomes a bit maudlin at times, especially if something dies.

    The GOP Christian is very much the first type (with their no pregnancy termination, especially if you were raped), but they are hoping for the assumption of grandfatherly virtue of the second.  I think this is an unstable situation.  There is sort of a butterfly curve here. The GOP risks coming across like Carrie’s mother (as played by Piper Laurie).

    You are not responsible for what you friends do, but you will be judged by the company you keep.~ Leonard Cole

    In courting the mean-spirited religious right, the Republicans will tar themselves.

  2. You should try to meet some actual religious people. If you judge by the ones you see on TV, especially during the GOP convention, I can understand how you could say that but I’ve known many religious people who were none of those things. I even had a born again Christian for a girl friend for several years. She was full of joy in life, creative, talented (she was a concert pianist), brilliant, and beautiful.

  3. I’m not saying that all or even most born agains are like my ex girlfriend. I think she was the exception. I’m just saying its wrong to assume that because someone believes in God they are “sick”.  When you say that you demonstrate that you haven’t come all that far from your born again roots. You still need someone to demonize as an other, a group you can unite with your peers to hate, a group that is automatically evil without considering people as individuals. Its just that you’ve changed your enemy group from atheists to born agains. 

  4. I have met more Christians than most people would meet in ten lifetimes.  Just be gay and public and there will be a steady stream of them shouting obscenities and threatening to kill you. I have met a  small number of decent Christians.  They were kind, but usually stupid.

    Three of my past boyfriends were Christian. Being gay and Christian tends to temper the homophobic part, which is my main objection.  One poor guy was so frightened from his religious teaching he always walked several paces behind me in public.  He was terrified some damn Christian would see him a presume he was gay.

  5. I grew up as an atheist Jew in very fundamentalist Christian community about 20 miles away from Seattle.  Yes, I have met some nice Christians.  I have met tolerant Christians.  I have met incredibly intelligent Christians.  I have dated many Christian girls in my life (including one from a born-again family whose mom said, after meeting me said to her daughter in her Southern Oklahoma drawl “we like Matt just fine.  He’s such a sweet boy… it’s too bad he’s going to hell.”)  That said, the more religious a person is who identifies himself as Christian, the more intolerant, rejecting of science, and closed minded I find that person to be.  There is a strong correlation between religiosity (particularly Christian religiosity, at least in this country) and many of those negative traits.  The religious right take over of the Republican party is scary.  When Ronald Reagan courted them, I really don’t think he had any idea what a monster he created and how thoroughly they would come to overtake and destroy a once great party.

  6. The more I hear of people’s experience the more I realize how lucky I’ve been living all my life in places like Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco.  I realize I’ve been lucky in that many of the religious people I’ve met have been tolerant. For one thing I don’t bother going to places where there are gay bashers and for another in big cities and in progressive political groups the majority of religious people are tolerant. I don’t mean to downplay your experiences or imply that there aren’t lots of disgusting homophobic Christians out there, I realize there are, I’m just saying its important to realize that not ALL of them are like that and that you should still treat people as individuals and not automatically assume they are bigots just because they are Christians. 

  7.  Perhaps Mr Bailey’s years of experience growing up with a family of  “born agains” and actually being one for a while gives him a better perspective than someone who went out with one for a bit who was occasionally charming but otherwise still bonkers. Perhaps it’s you who needs someone to demonize.

  8. Who exactly am I demonizing? All I’m saying is that there are some Christians who are decent people and I gave an example of one that I knew. I can’t believe that is even a controversial statement. Do you think Martin Luther King was not a decent person? 

  9. Well let’s take a tally so far. Mr Bailey made a perfectly reasonable, calm and friendly comment that came from a lifetime of experience and you immediately accuse him without any foundation of a “need” to hate people. Have you met Mr Bailey? Then, in an enormous fit of denial you attempt to whitewash over your previous aggression with the statement “All I’m saying.” You’re neither the first nor last person to be afflicted with this behaviour and I’m happy enough to admit to doing the exact same myself from time to time. If you can read this back and see where it was you were insulting and rude to Mr. Bailey and admit to perhaps a hasty comment on your behalf, then you’ll be the decent ( only ) human being that I hope you are.

  10. Disagreeing with someone is not what I call demonizing. What I mean by demonizing is saying that everyone in a particular group (e.g. all Christians) are “stupid” as Roedy did. I didn’t call anyone names or attack them as people, I attacked their arguments. 

  11. No personal spats, please. If you’re posting about another user rather than about the topic, please think twice about whether it’s really appropriate on this site. Thank you. The mods

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