105 COMMENTS

  1. I knew a person, I call my frienemy, who invited me to take my kids on a trip to this place. 

    I told him that I would never do that because I don’t lie to my children and I don’t willingly give money to con-men.

  2. It would be a shame to knock it down or shut its doors. I’d rather see the entire compound up for sale, purchased, and then completely enclosed within a proper complex displaying creation stories from around the globe; call it the Myth Museum.

    Mike 

  3. When it was in business, by most estimates, some 85% of the people who either subscribed to the Weekly World News or purchased it while waiting in line at the supermarket, did so not because they believed in space aliens or Bat-boy. They bought it because they were merely collectors of American kitsch in general.

    I wouldn’t hazard a guess as to how many folks who visit the creation museum each year also merely do so because they are into kitschy travel stops in general, but I’ll bet they do exceed the amount of people who actually go there to have their religious beliefs confirmed.

  4. Very cool video, although I didn’t immediately realize that “Children 12 Years & Under Only” was an admonition to heavier kids about climbing on the dinosaurs, but thought it was a necessary part of the Creation Museum’s admissions policy because any child above that age wouldn’t be gullible enough to buy into its nonsense, and museum staff were fed up with hearing the constant cry of “Oh, come on!” from older kids.

    Adam and Eve’s sin even destroyed the vegetarian diet. “Because man sinned in the Garden, now even the animal kingdom must struggle to survive.” 06:55

    So if it hadn’t been for Adam & Eve’s shenanigans, we’d all still be living in paradise, but it would be a vegetarian paradise? I wonder how this attitude sits with visitors to the Creation Museum, most of whom are presumably militantly carnivorous. And will the diet in Heaven consist solely of vegetarian dishes?

    Yet another reason why I’m fine with being consigned to Hell when I eventually shuffle of this coil: I bet Satan throws a terrific barbecue. No tofu or Gardein at his shindigs.

  5. Let me get this straight. According to Christians, the way you get 100% infallible information is to find a guy who need know nothing about the particular topic at hand who hears disembodied voices. He interprets one or more of them as the creator of the universe taking time out from his busy schedule to pass on interesting information. Ideally, you age the information by passing it verbally from generation to generation before writing it down. Then you collect all this material together and host a conference of bishops who censor the material to remove some of the more glaring inconsistencies. Whatever is left must be true, even if it conflicts with common sense, science, written history or direct observation.

    Then why eschew other sources besides the bible of this valuable revelation? There are no shortage of people living today to whom Jehovah speaks to in this manner, even ex-president George W. Bush. Jehovah personally told him many “infallible” facts about the conduct of the Iraq war. It did not turn out as well as he hoped. Perhaps he did not give the information sufficient time to age or maybe he scrimped on bishops, for security reasons.

    Then there is all that information we fail to capture from angels, who appear to us in the form of extraordinarily handsome young male wrestlers.

  6. The video is a nice look at a place that I will never get to visit. It would have been nice to get some of the views of the genuine tourists though. We need to see how the average good person can be sucked into this nonsense and bring into sharp relief how much damage a place like this actually causes.

  7. Somebody should make a rehearsed movie of a trip through this laughable piece of nonsense.
    That with printed text and well focused video with a satirical commentary as the secret camera men course through such nonsensical twaddle and the grinning Dinosaur pets.

  8. “Jurassic Lark”  – truly a Ham act, brought to you by Kentucky’s fried brains!

    Katy Cordeth
    Very cool video, although I didn’t immediately realize that
    “Children 12 Years & Under Only”
    was an admonition to heavier kids about climbing on the dinosaurs, but thought it was a necessary part of the Creation Museum’s admissions policy because any child above that age wouldn’t be gullible enough to buy into its nonsense,

    Are you sure it wasn’t just a description the mental ages of the “museum’s” creators, sponsors, staff and supporters?

  9. Good opening, throwing your money in the black hole of ignorance. Unfortunately this money will probably help to spread more of the same nonsense. In the Netherlands we have a replica of Noah’s ark. Apparently it’s quite successful which I find scary. It’s aimed at both adults and kids and they even have seminars where active brain washing is taking place. They claim to have scientific background information about the ark. So this is not just an American phenomenon I’m afraid.  I’d like to visit that place just to mock the hell out of them. Then I can proudly claim to have been thrown out of that place.  

  10. I feel so sorry for any children who are brainwashed with this nonsense – it is abuse, plain and simple and is destroying their futures (and by extension ours too, as in years to come, they will be responsible for looking after us).

    I’m so glad I don’t live in the States – I’d find it very difficult not to pay these guys a visit to have a quiet word with them…

    The only slight crumb of comfort is that these ‘attractions’ do seem to be an act of desperation; a last, futile stand by the religious lunatics against the quickening tide of reason…

    Hopefully one day, even THEY will realise that “God’s Word” and “Man’s Word” are exactly the same thing…

  11. Makes you wonder how an omniscient god could have let the flipping satanic snake into the garden in the first place – and then have the nerve to blame the humans for listening to it!

    If God really does exist, he truly is a bit rubbish…

  12. Actually, I would like to go there – just for shock value.

    If any of you Brits are looking for an interesting vacation, I would recommend going to the Grand Canyon and areas of southern Utah.  I recently came back from Moab and found the geology, canyons, and rock formations breath taking. You can see the results of “lowering” water levels over millions of years in time through the creation of varying bluffs and “carved” rock. I found this area much more accessible than the Grand Canyon.  After viewing this area, I cannot fathom how anyone would view the earth as being so young. There is no reason to take your kids to a creation museum when phenomenal, natural landscapes reveal the truth with no agenda.

    Admission to the Creation Museum $29.95 for one day
    Admission to many US National Parks $10 per car for a week.

  13. Agreed – nature is far more inspiring and majestic than any man-made mythology.

    The Grand Canyon is on my list of places to visit in the next few years – hopefully I’ll get over there soon.

  14. If I want to find out about dinosaurs I can go to a real museum (the Natural History Museum in London) FOR FREE (apart from the rail fare), or if I want bonkers propaganda I can go to church and still only pay if I feel the lies were entertaining enough.  To actually have to pay before I could go in simply for the privilege of being lied to in such a ridiculous manner isn’t something I would do even if it was somewhere I could go for a day trip

  15. Unfortunately we have a similar compost plot in Big Valley, Alberta peddling the same garbage only about 45 minutes drive from one of THE best displays of Dino bones- The Royal Tyrell Museum of Palaeontology at Drumheller. This facility, together with the surrounding country side is a treasure trove for Dino bones- well worth the visit. 
    As for any of these creation museums, I wouldn’t waste my time, nor pay them to help sustain their facilities. It gives them hope they just might be right and allows them to continue to purvey their pseudo science, rather than allowing to die a natural death through disinterest. jcw 

  16. Good to know it’s free. I plan to (hopefully) go to London and Paris next summer.

    Do it, Dr. Bob. It’s a bit overwhelming though. The Canyon is soooo huge; it looks fake. Just look at it on a map! Be sure to hike or take a mule ride in. I found I prefer areas like Sedona, and Moab because I can actually get up close. I’d like to get to the four corners region, see Zion and some of the other parks. Seriously, you Brits need to come see the western US. We are “on sale.” Lots of people from the UK, France, Italy, Germany, etc. visiting the US right now.

  17. I have to say, I do think a museum is a great place for creationists; I picture wearing a headset (as I walked through) saying things into my ear such as “Incredibly, people actually used to believe these things and tried to pervert the public education system into promoting them.”

    I would go to THAT museum.

  18. Really looking forward to it – looking to take in Las Vegas and Yellowstone in the same trip…

    If not next year, it’ll be the year after – only thing holding me back is lack of funds…

    Thanks for the tips, by the way :-)

  19. Makes you wonder how an omniscient god could have let the flipping satanic snake into the garden in the first place – and then have the nerve to blame the humans for listening to it!

    That’s God for you, always putting temptation in the way then punishing us for being tempted. Just to teach us a lesson, of course. And people love him for it! Yet if I were to set up a market stall giving away the most scrumptious cakes ever, but lacing them with cyanide to punish those who eat them, I’d be in a spot of bother.

  20. Hang on…..they could saddle-up and ride dinosaurs (before they were all killed in God’s fit of pique), yet the best that the stupid Achaeans could come up with to breach the walls of Troy was a fecking wooden horse? Where was their sense of drama? Surely a team of brontosaurs could have dealt with the walls and a team of attack-T. Rex’s made short work of the Trojans?
    I smell a rat.. 

  21. “The Mythsonian.” — Aimee, commenting at Friendly Atheist

    Ham’s date of 2348 BCE for the flood fails to account for Khufu’s pyramid, which was in place for about 200 years when that was supposed to happen, but didn’t lose its limestone facing until around 1300 CE.

  22. The one in Dordrecht? I’ve got family living near the damn thing, on the inevitable trip there I couldn’t shut up for one moment. But aside from some angry looks and a shove from an elderly woman I was pretty much ignored.

    Good luck though.

  23. Forgot the guy had a dream about this – perfectly good trees wasted on this monstrosity.

     You must remember that when biblical literalists like Ham, read,
    “go-fer-wood”, through blinker specs, they take it as an instruction from god!

  24. Your opinions were only that of opinions and you did not even come up with good reasons at all! Look at your entire video and that is all you gave as if you were the ultimate authority on what to believe! I am not attacking but merely stating a fact over looked by you guys! If your trip was sincere then why is it that you already had showed up without an open mind and you read all that you did and looked at it with pre-conceived notions and that is not what a true science believer does! I cannot even imagine myself listening to you guys and this video is merely a mockery to a science believer myself! Pre judge mentalist is all I can say you have shown me! Where is your facts in order to show that there is credible proof that theirs is wrong! I am a bit ashamed of you because your video does not even give me something to show others why they are wrong. All you did was mock and joke and laugh at the very thing you called dangerous! Not good guys! Sorry, your video was just a comedy!

  25. Science
    Your opinions were only that of opinions and you did not even come up with good reasons at all! Look at your entire video and that is all you gave as if you were the ultimate authority on what to believe!

    Err! No! The “authority” of expert opinion is in the tens of thousands of scientific studies confirming evolution in a multitude of species. 
    There are no peer-reviewed scientific studies supporting the claims of the Creation Museum, even if they do publish pretty pictures and make models of Ham’s  fantasies.

    I am not attacking but merely stating a fact over looked by you guys! If your trip was sincere then why is it that you already had showed up without an open mind

    That would be because a scientific critical  “open mind” is not a bucket of ignorance with no lid, into which any unevidenced rubbish can be poured.
     Scientists do their homework before making judgements.
    You cannot just make up your own “facts”. To challenge a confirmed scientific theory. You need evidence! The odds agains refuting tens of thousands of scientific studies are VERY high!

    and you read all that you did and looked at it with pre-conceived notions

    I think that is what KNOWLEDGE OF scientific evidence is!  The well educated group did not arrive full of ignorance.

    and that is not what a true science believer does!

    Religion has TRRROOooo believers – Science has critical objective methodologists.

    I cannot even imagine myself listening to you guys

    What was that about a mind open to evidence???

    and this video is merely a mockery to a science believer myself! Pre judge mentalist is all I can say you have shown me!

    The incompetent claims of the “Creation Museum” deserve mockery.   The proper evidenced information has been available in abundance for over 100 years.  They choose to ignore it and make up nonsense!

    Where is your facts in order to show that there is credible proof that theirs is wrong!

    The University biology, palaeontology, astronomy, geology, and genetics libraries are full of proof! 

    Perhaps you should study some of them, so as to realize  how comically incompetent the claims of the Creation Museum are.  

    Their claims are only plausible to those profoundly ignorant of science and Earth’s history.

  26. This is a bit of Poe, right? Have you never been to ‘The Thinking Atheist” website?

    If your comment is a serious observation, then am not sure we were both watching the same video. I missed the opinions bit…there was the opinions and perspectives in the coffee shop at the beginning of the vid by the sceptic visitors, but that is not what you are referring too is it? The rest of the video is about observations on the various ridiculous assertions this place is making. Observations in the style of  lessons, 10 of them, ignorant assertions that the ‘creationist muppet show’ is trying to indoctrinate its visitors in.

    To critique the bullshit contents of the assertions is a different video all together. The point of the video is about letting those of us that already know the science, but haven’t been to see this bollocks for ourselves, what it is the place is saying, not give a detailed analysis why it is wrong. This video isn ot about instructing fuckwit creationists on the pitfalls of Ham’s ham-fisted mindset at all.

  27. I was thinking the same – I bet one of them was himself…

    I was going to write a cutting dissection of his diatribe earlier, but:

    a) Yourself and Alan beat me to it
    b) I just can’t be bothered…

    Sometimes you just have to accept that some people in this world just don’t get it…

  28. Where is your facts in order to show that there is credible proof that theirs is wrong!

    Okay, I’ll play….gimme one of their ‘facts’ as you like to call them that has any evidence in its support and I’ll knock it down.

    I am a bit ashamed of you because your video does not even give me something to show others why they are wrong.

    Why would you expect it should? Where is the suggestion that this video is all about the counter argument to the creationist nonsense? The target audience of the video already know the arguments because they are the rational thinkers among the species and they have read more than one book. BTW, most buybull believing creationists haven’t even bothered with the one book either.

    All you did was mock and joke and laugh at the very thing you called dangerous!

    So you think that someone proposing that prehistoric kiddies played with vegetarian raptor’s isn’t hilarious and warranting of a full dollop of piss take? That putting a saddle on a baby Triceratops to infer to visitors that humans not only lived at the same time as the dinosaur, but rode it around like a horse, is not completely insane? You think that people who advertise a 600 year old man who built a very big boat in order to take examples of all the worlds species aboard to save them from a planet covering torrent that lasted six months should be given credence? Sorry, but that just tells me more about you than I need to know. A believer in science my arse.

    Not good guys! Sorry, your video was just a comedy!

    Spoiiiinnnggg!!!…which is what I immediately thought of when I first read your comment.

  29. UK citizens beware: this kind of pseudoscience is also over here now. 
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N
    One of my best friends, a liberal Anglican, and lawyer, with an honours degree from Oxford in History, took his family there and seemed to feel fine about it, declaring it to be “good fun and not too overt”. That’s the sort of attitude that makes me fear for the future of the Enlightenment. Let’s just toss away truth everyone, because that kind of stuff doesn’t matter. I love the Noah’s Arc Zoo Farm. Now, back to history and legal representation.

  30. What Mr Science doesn’t seem to understand is that it is the creationists making the outlandish claims and therefore it is the creationists who have to prove their position is correct.

    We don’t have to prove them wrong – it would be a bit like us having to prove that green wasn’t red, or that the moon wasn’t made of jelly…

    The burden of proof is on those making the crazy assertions, not the other way around.

    The proof that they are wrong is implicit in the geology, biology and cosmology of the past century or so.

    The fact is that you do not need a god or gods to explain the universe and all it contains. If someone believes otherwise, then it is incumbent upon them to prove it.

    Otherwise, God is dead.

  31. What is it about the theory of Evolution that you reckon is made up?

    I’m fascinated with the creationist mindset.Lets see if you can construct an evidence based intellectual argument…ya know, the kind of thing one learns at a proper school.

  32. To be honest, he thinks anything that wasn’t written by bronze age cave-dwelling misogynistic eunuchs is made up…

    Next he’ll be telling you that the ‘Theory of Gravity’ is just a theory…

  33.  
    Dr Bob
    The burden of proof is on those making the crazy assertions, not the other way around.

    The proof that they are wrong is implicit in the geology, biology and cosmology of the past century or so.

     

    Yeah!   But you need to educated to know that, … and as we have seen before …..   http://old.richarddawkins.net/
     
    It seems the cheerleaders for ignorance are turning up in numbers. It would appear university science exists on some other planet for them! – (Or was that Mormons)

  34. We are not intimidated by the museum – we are saddened by it.

    And we don’t need your prayers, thank you very much.

    Hopefully your children will grow up and work out for themselves that your God is a figment of your imagination.

    But even if this is not the case, I’m sure there is room in the world for both positions.

    As long as you leave us alone and allow us to lead secular lives away from religious dogma.

    That’s all we ask for.

    Take care.

  35. Some really disturbing things on this thread today. There is a definite trolling by religious types, who either delete their posts completely or radically change the text to make our replies look strange…

    I’ve not come across that on here before; maybe it’s my fault for feeding the trolls. :-(

  36. Dr Bob
    Some really disturbing things on this thread today. There is a definite trolling by religious types, who either delete their posts completely or radically change the text to make our replies look strange…

    If you cut and paste quotes and identify them as quotes by typing the tags (without my added X s) <blockxquote> in front of them and </blockxquote> at the end of them, they will be unaltered in your posts, whatever is done to the originals.

  37. In what way would this be lying to the kids?

    In the first instance, it is not a museum, so there’s a lie right there.
    “A museum is an institution that cares for (conserves) a collection of artefacts and other objects of scientific, artistic, cultural, or historical importance and makes them available for public viewing through exhibits that may be permanent or temporary”

    You’ll be able to direct me to some artefacts in the “museum” to justify it being a museum? Nah, didn’t think so.

    Then there is the ‘creation’ prefix, that’s a whopper of lie too. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the ‘creation’ of anything apart from the fecked up minds kids of the poor kids being force feed the tripe by their ignorant parents and guardians..

    Then there is the problems with the ONE creation myth it does portray…it’s wholly dishonest in that portrayal of Genesis, but you’d probably know that if you’d read Genesis properly.The whole place is one lie city.

  38.  
    rom11827
    “Lets see if you can construct an evidence based intellectual argument”

    How does the theory of Evolution explain how man acquired intellect superior to the intellect of the Biblical God?

    First you would need to show that a particular god exists –
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L… -, and that that particular god had an intellect. So far no one has ever produced scientific evidence to support those claims.   Most creationist claims simply illustrate the ignorance of science of those making them. 

    The scientific (fact) theory of evolution explains the diversity and development of life on Earth. – Nothing to do with gods.

  39. It is typical of an arsehole trolling mindset. 

    One of the frustrating things about the old site was the editing time limit…perhaps not a bad thing after all.

    It’s been a while since there’s been a decent holy roller pitch up and gave a half decent account of themselves…but the woo woo stock on today is pretty piss poor. Not even a decent comment to get the teeth into. Mind you, these are YEC’s so I don’t know why I should expect anything greater than the knuckle dragging.

    As for feeding the trolls…you are not the only one looking for a bit of action. Just a pity the opponents are ultra lightweight. A bit like this stuff…..

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/

    Now that IS a creation story worth a read.

  40. Yep, they are at it again – deleting their posts after trying to get us to take the bait…

    That one from rom11827 that you quoted (before they deleted it) – I was going to answer like this:

    “Well for a start, we have evidence that humans exist, while there is not a shred of evidence that ANY of the gods invented by humans over the millennia have ever existed.

    So there is no argument to make – it’s like comparing the intellect of a human to that of a unicorn.”

  41. There really has been some scary stuff on here today though… To be honest, I’m shocked that these people even know what a computer is (there aren’t any in the bible), let alone know how to use one to compose an email…

    Oh wait, they didn’t – they asked their 5 year old brother/uncle to do it for them…

  42. How does the theory of Evolution explain how man acquired intellect 
    superior to the intellect of the Biblical God?

    Well for starters, the God of the Old Testament is demonstrably as intellectual and knowledgeable as the men that wrote the yarns…which wasn’t very.

    But as has been stated, there is nothing, nadda, zip, bugger all, to show that this figment of your imagination has any credence. Give me some attributions of this special one to get my head around.

  43. I thought that earlier – probably a post self-destruct linked to known Fundementalist IP addresses… :-)

    It truly is frightening that we share the same planet with these people (the Fundies, not the mods) :-)

    Actually, when I first read your post, my immediate thought was Paul Weller sitting at his computer, deleting posts with “That’s Entertainment” playing in the background…

    Then I realised… it wasn’t THAT kind of mod…

  44. We have removed a number of posts in this thread which were blatant trolling or simply the peddling of creationist dogma that has no place on a site devoted to science and reason.

    If you see further posts of that nature, please don’t respond to them – just flag them to help ensure they are brought to our attention promptly.

    Thank you.

    The mods

  45. Pedantic moment…the past tense of smite is smote…..smited is a type of sword fencing incidentally }80)~

    But yes, plenty of stuff got smote in them there days and ya did’t even have to be an enemy victim in a city to have been smote…try burning the wrong incense to see how ya get to do the “dance of the flaming arseholes”, a dance I’ve done many a time..

    http://www.thebricktestament.c

    And being connected to someone important didn’t always save yer bacon (pun).

  46. Yay! The mods did it! Good old mods… Not like them pesky rockers… :-)

    Apologies for making you use your Cloak of Pedantry – I stand shamed and corrected in the correct use of smote and smited.

    I blame the stress of replying to so many inbreds earlier today… Not doing that again… especially when I’m supposed to be working! :-)

    I do love that brick testament though…

  47. Yep, they must have had a day at the Internet Cafe today or something… good to see they get let out of the asylum once in a while… As long as they are safely locked up again later, that is…

  48.  

    Ignorant Amos

    But as has been stated, there is nothing, nadda, zip, bugger all, to
    show that this figment of your imagination has any credence. Give me
    some attributions of this special one to get my head around.

    It seems that this sort of topic invites “Hamster infestations”. 
    Do you remember the discussion on “YEC” Radio on the old site? 
    I think it was suggested then, that a “troll petting corner” (a bit like the letters corner),  would illustrate the creationists’ levels of thinking, without pollution of other discussion threads!

  49. So there I am, a happy go lucky velociraptor, enjoying my veg amongst the leafy bushes, when all of a sudden some naked bloke eats some fruit and I am transformed into a meat eating cannibal and predator just like that! Who’d have thought it! Fruit! The source of all evil. Naked bloke suddenly looks tasty ‘n all…

  50. I think it might have been Quine that suggested a troll petting place

    I quite like the idea of a that. ‘The Home of the Bottomless I.Q.’ But only for the trolls that really try, so I’d draw the line at the classic ‘if from monkeys why still monkeys?’ mentality.

  51. Oh dear! Another one whose education has been neglected and who has not done his homework.

    mike.sharp.5059

    Let’s look at another number: How many times has the science books in our school been changed or updated:hundreds

    That would be because science keeps discovering new facts, developing new skills and developing new technologies which need to be taught.

    Every time science finds out new things it tends to disprove old ideas, so books are changed.

     

    Unfortunately religious books remain unchanged despite the evidence of history and archaeology which show them to be false!
    Some scientific theories , like gravity and evolution have been reconfirmed so many thousands of times , they are effectively facts.

    How many times has the Bible been changed: 0

    Wrong again!  It has been translated, mistranslated, and misreported, numerous times even after the various contradictory gospels were passed around for decades or centuries as folk-law before being written down in the first place. – As listed here – http://old.richarddawkins.net/

    Thousands have tried to find absolute proof the Bible is false, yet none have been able to.

    Which ignoramus told you that?
    Thousands have tried to find independent evidence confirming biblical myths, and in almost all cases  have drawn a blank in archaeology and in historical Roman records.  It is folk-myths with a lack of confirmation in the historical records of the time.

    Conclusion: If you insist on trying to close this museum, well then please also insist we quit spending millions on teaching evolution, it’s only fair.

    Err no!  there is no equivalence between proven core science, which is the basis of understanding biology and the treatment of disease, and Ham’s fantasy equivalent to a bit of Disneyland!

    To believe Young Earth nonsense, requires a profound ignorance of  astronomy, geology, physics, biology and history.

  52.  Dr Bob state

    Really looking forward to it – looking to take in Las Vegas and Yellowstone in the same trip…

    Are you from the UK? Just an FYI to you Brits, the US is huge. HUGE especially the West. Unless you will be visiting for several weeks at least… or plan on doing the National Parks loop, the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone  plus Vegas is a bit too much since you will be passing by some incredible places without seeing them. Flying into Vegas and then driving to the Canyon will let you see the North Rim, while the best area is the South Rim – a long drive. You’re then better off seeing Zion, Capitol Reef, Lake Powell,  Bryce. If you have time… then Arches, Canyonlands, Moab. There are also state parks in the area worthy of time.

  53. How many times has the Bible been changed: 0
    Thousands have tried to find absolute proof the Bible is false, yet none have
    been able to.

    Say what? Is this post a joke? Seriously, this must be a joke. Please admit you are actually joking.

    How many variations of the Bible exist? If you truly believe this, please take an European history class so that we are on the same page.

    Also, the first few lines of Genesis are absolutely false. The whole concept of a “firmament” is incorrect. Google firmament and notice the explanation for rain – waters above and below. It’s simply wrong.

  54. Yes, I’m in the UK – thanks for the advice about trying to do National Parks and Vegas in one trip. We would have come over for at least two weeks, but I guess even that may be pushing it.

    I don’t want to turn these posts into travel guides (well, I wouldn’t mind, but the mods might disapprove), but I’d also love to visit San Francisco, New England, New York, Florida (particularly the Space Centre), Washington DC and Hawaii… And that’s just the start! :-)

    So many awesome things to see in the US – you guys are very lucky :-)

  55. Dr. Bob, We are talking about the greatest museum ever – the natural landscape. No agenda; it is what it is.  (Two weeks or so is good, but look at the size of Yellowstone. Grand Canyon is a two or even three day trip. I usually go online to TripAdvisor for all my travel plans. Lots of awesome things to see in Europe – you guys are very lucky – We say the same thing because the natural earth and human culture blows away religion like a feather.)

  56.  A Noah’s Ark zoo farm sounds like fun for the kids, especially seeing the 6000 or so beetle species and thousands upon thousands of animals. It would be interesting to ask them what they feed all those animals. My guess is that no zookeeper there really believes that an ark existed.

  57. Dr. Bob and QuestioningKat,

    The mods have said that the site is still being tinkered with and will have some changes in the future.  I have suggested adding a book discussion permanent thread of some sort, but wouldn’t it be cool to have a travel thread too?  I like the idea of having travel suggestions for this community and maybe even a house swap/ hospitality resource too. When I was in Scotland this past July, I took my picture with the statue of Hume on the Royal Mile.  I’ve visited Galileo’s tomb in Florence. There are any number of travel destinations that have meaning to us.  Here in New England we have Robert Ingersoll’s house and Mark Twain’s house to name two just off the top of my head. Creationist dunces have their favorite travel destinations and we should have our own Science/Nature/Enlightenment destinations too.

  58. Qwerty
    Ken Ham gave a reply to the video here:

    YE creationists are never lost replies or words;- just lost for a lack of :- understanding, scientific knowledge,  and meaningful informed answers.

  59. So true…I look out my bedroom window and see an 800 year old Norman keep at the bottom of the street. I shall be enjoying a pint in it’s shadow tomorrow evening as part of a real ale festival…and I will feel privileged. 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C

    Most of the people don’t even notice it’s there, they are so ignorant and complacent about such things right on their doorstep….the Giants Causeway is another example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G

  60. Fantastic idea!

    I reside in a large town (pop: 200,000+) in the middle of England, mostly famous for boots & shoes – but one thing I am proud of is the statue of Charles Bradlaugh near our town centre.

    He was our Member of Parliament between 1880 and 1891 and was the first to refuse to swear the Oath of Allegiance (which includes ‘So help me God’) when taking his seat in the House of Commons (which you can imagine went down like a lead balloon back then)…

    For those unfamiliar with him, check out the Wikipedia article for more details (and a picture of his statue)…

    He also founded the National Secular Society, supported women’s suffrage and was one of the most influential atheists of the 19th century.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C

  61. Yes, they are complacent because they live near it and take it for granted.  If you ask them to take a guess as to the age of the Norman keep, will they come close? I’m thinking that they would do a better job of it than most Americans would.  Our historic timeline here is so short that it’s startling for us when traveling in Europe and other parts of the world and grappling with the extremely old age of structures there relative to anything we have here. 

    The Mayflower landed on the shore of Massachusetts in 1620, so that gives us 392 years of structures here.  We have a few decrepit old historic hovels that were built in the mid 1600′s and I always thought they were the oldest things in the world until I went to Paris in my twenties. What a difference. I can’t help but think that this must have something to do with why these creationists are so accepting of a 6000 year old earth. Could it be that their own historic timeline is so short that 6000 years of history appears to be very vast to them? Granted, they’re completely indoctrinated, but this could be a factor contributing to their ignorance of history. There just isn’t much of it around them. 

  62. That could well be part of the problem.

    It does make me laugh, though. There are many human-made structures on this planet that are more than 6000 years old – even the walls of Jericho are dated to around 8000 BC…

    How do they reconcile that?

    Silly me, they don’t bother – they just ignore it… Or claim that carbon dating is the work of the devil…

  63.  

    Dr Bob

    How do they reconcile that?

    Silly me, they don’t bother – they just ignore it… Or claim that carbon dating is the work of the devil…

    It gets laughable when they dispute carbon dating (wrong isotope) for dinosaurs! – Carbon-14 is a radioactive isotope of carbon, with a half-life of 5,730 years,  which is very short –
    Radiometric dating – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R

  64. Yep, the argument against Carbon-14 is often used in anti-evolution rants – although, like you say, their efforts are wasted…

    I still can’t get my head around the fact that so many supposedly educated people believe the Earth can only be around 6,000 years old… there is some evidence that we domesticated the dog over 30,000 years ago and there is unequivocal evidence that it had been achieved 9,000 years ago…

    So many other things: pottery, rope, musical instruments, boats, paint (for cave painting), weapons, clothing, housing, knives, burial mounds, needles… all are older than 10,000 BC…

    And Carbon-14 is perfectly capable of dating those…

  65. Heh, although I think your Mr. Bradlaugh was an admirable character, I did laugh at the blatant disrespect of the pranksters in the theft of Bradlaugh’s finger.  My bad. 

    Here in Boston we have a very large statue of George Washington (sacred hero of the American Revolution) on the beautiful and historic Boston Common.  I pass this statue often when I walk through the Common on the way to a favorite shopping street that I frequent.  From time to time when I pass by I notice that the statue is surrounded with hoards of tourists who are trying to figure out the latest act of disrespect perpetrated upon the father of our nation.  I can’t help but laugh at them. Seems like the more “sacred” the monument is and the more inappropriate the vandalism is, the funnier I find it to be.  Here is a picture of the statue dressed in a Boston Bruins team shirt.  The Bruins are our Hockey team.  This is a mild form of the behavior I have described above.  :-)http://cache.boston.com/bonzai

  66. I took the facebook link that someone posted to the reply by Ken Ham.

    It has about 25,000 ‘likes’.

    This is not a minority cult. How can so many be so wrong?

    Remember the ad:  ‘Eat at Joes’ Cafe; 50,000 flies can’t be wrong!’

  67.  

    inquisador
    I took the facebook link that someone posted to the reply by Ken Ham.

    It has about 25,000 ‘likes’.

    It is only to be expected from those living in the deluded, egocentric, parishes of ignorance, in the states of denial!

    Having said that, when looking at “liars for Jebus central”, it might be worth remembering, that facebook is currently deleting a load of fake “likes”!

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