Ohio may OK public school religion credits

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Members of the Ohio House are considering a bipartisan bill that would allow public high schools to give students credit toward graduation for religious courses taken during school hours but away from public school.


If the bill becomes law, Ohio would be the only state other than South Carolina offering school credit for outside religious classes. Democratic and Republican bill sponsors say they want to encourage teenagers to take religious classes.

“It’s an attempt to reinstall some of the same things that made this country great,” said Rep. Bill Patmon, a Democrat from Cleveland who is one of the bill’s two main sponsors.

“We’ve taken prayer out of the schools,” he said. “We’ve separated any religious demonstrations from our learning areas. And we are using our church and state separation in the Constitution to say you can’t have a Christmas (display) or something in front of a school or even a Christ pictorial at Christmas time. We can’t have any of that associated with public buildings.”

House Bill 171 would reward what is called “released time for religious instruction.”


continue to source article at news.cincinnati.com

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  1. Poor downtrodden christians. I’m getting fed up with these sort of articles. They say ignorance is bliss. From now on happiness beckons. But there is still a lot of annoying stuff I can’t ignore. Such is life!

    • In reply to #1 by finchfinder:

      They say ignorance is bliss.

      Heh… a couple days ago I saw a sign out in front of a local church that said

      Some people read just enough to remain ignorant“.

      My irony meter pegged itself, then blew up.

      Steve

      • In reply to #17 by Agrajag:

        In reply to #1 by finchfinder:

        They say ignorance is bliss.

        Heh… a couple days ago I saw a sign out in front of a local church that said

        “Some people read just enough to remain ignorant”.

        My irony meter pegged itself, then blew up.

        Steve

        You could replace it with the dip-stick from your car, after all, its already lubricated :P

  2. I wonder, will that include studies of Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Catholicism, the difference between Calvinists, Baptists, Mormons, the 30 Years War, The Crusades, …? You know, studies. Or will it be just your run of the mill Jesus pushers doing the rounds.

    • In reply to #2 by papa lazaru:

      I wonder, will that include studies of Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Catholicism, the difference between Calvinists, Baptists, Mormons, the 30 Years War, The Crusades, …? You know, studies. Or will it be just your run of the mill Jesus pushers doing the rounds.

      I totally agree. I went to a Catholic school, half an hour per day RK before lunch. I suppose that gave us some basics, but we learned far, far more about religion in history lessons. I often thought that we did get the point of the Reformation, wars of religion, divine right of kings, Aristotelian basis of pre-enlightenment science, biblical/spiritual references in English literature, Renaissance art etc, better than our peers who went to non Catholic schools, so there was some benefit from a grounding in scripture and theology, but as indoctrination it didn’t work, as very few of my school friends are believers now.

      Better still, as well as being given the intellectual equipment to find the flaws in other religions, they inadvertently gave us the wherewithal to uncover the many shortcomings in Catholicism.

    • In reply to #4 by N_Ellis:

      Exactly how does instruction in credulousness, ignorance and ancient fairy stories assist a person with critical thinking and useful skills?

      As argued by Hitchens and Al, a lot actually. Once you bring the irrelevance of all religions to the same level, and you see there is nothing special between them, or even compared to the old ‘myths’, stories and legends, then there isn’t much left to harp on about. In fact I quite liked the old stories and myths, they were fun.

      And for quite a few, reading the actual Bible is an eye opener. But what these people do is skim over the top and do the good old preaching. Skip the nasty and uncomfortable bits, and sell Jesus Crack to kids.

      If anything, I’d rather they don’t, but if it is to be law, why not have some fun with it.

  3. as a rebellious kid i’d have taken this. away from class, piss-easy subject and i expect any poor grades i got could be fixed with a threat of a letter from my parents because our version of christianity does regard Ian as an important apostle and we believe stronlgy jesus’ first job was a lifeguard/pedalo hire on the sea of galilee

    the beauty of any reliigous schooling is you can get offended if anyone tells you you’re wrong

  4. “It’s an attempt to reinstall some of the same things that made this country great,” said Rep. Bill Patmon, a Democrat from Cleveland who is one of the bill’s two main sponsors.

    from Cleveland? screeeeeaaaam, ahhhhhh aaahhhhhhhhhh! Not the city I live in! ahhhh aaaaahhhh! Who is this Bill Patmon and where is he from? Certainly not from here! ahhh! Maybe he’s originally from Cincinnati or Kentucky. No, no, no and he’s a democrat? What a mixed up idiot! He must be one of those imbreds that came here back in the 80s and never left. This is almost as bad as finding out that I pass the “world headquarter” (a junky little bungalow) for the nuts that believe the sun revolves around the earth, every day on the highway. (They live next to an interstate – what does that tell you?) Oh, the illusion of reason is shattered. I hang my head low and now I must go to work feeling shame and confusion. Who must I write to to stop this madness? I must find more information about this bill.

  5. “And we are using our church and state separation in the Constitution to say you can’t have a Christmas (display) or something in front of a school or even a Christ pictorial at Christmas time.”

    Hmmm right down from where I live there are 2 schools (middle and elementary schools) and there is a church being build almost right across from the middle school and signs about the church coming there all around including right on the public school property below where the school name is. So I do not see how they got the “something in front of a school” thing out of this when down here in Florida it’s widely accepted. – Seth

  6. So, if we were to teach a religious class on how religion is bullshit, the kid would get credit. Not bad. I wonder how they’ll feel about the Satan Worshipers collecting on this little scheme?

    Religion is Bullshit: 101

    Why Your God and Not Mine?: 101

    Satan, the true Lord: An Introduction to The Joys of Hell

    Blasphemy and Other Fun Things

    How Much For Your Daughter I Just Raped?: Economics 666

    Don’t Talk Back or Daddy Will Kill You: Lessons in Religious Obedience

  7. Religion does not make a country great.It is more likely to drag people back to the dark ages.
    It is annoying how the religious use TECHNOLOGY to promote their nonsense, and not see the irony thereof.How they elevate their piddling men of ‘god’ and fail to honour the brilliant work of men and women of science and reason who have made our lives comfortable if not downright luxurious.Forgive me if I have gone off at a tangent,It is just that these people annoy the heck out of me.

  8. “It’s an attempt to reinstall…”

    No. No it is not. It is arguably an attempt to re-INSTILL something (although, considering the non-theistic focus of the founders of the United States, it is a poor argument), but it is most certainly not about re-INSTALLING anything.

    And these ignoramuses are congresspeople…

  9. It will be interesting to see how this one goes,
    personally I remember the moment of silence and the pledge of alliance to the flag when I was in school.

    I also remember that times were different then, you didn’t have as many idiots running around killing everyone then.

    I am strongly in favor of religion but I also believe it should not be forced on kids in schools, it should be made available if they chose to.


    Advocare Reviews

  10. So, Sunday school, after-school “Good News” clubs, evening catechism classes, private religious schools, and home-schooling aren’t enough opportunities for Christians and religionuts of every stripe to mold the impressionable clay of young minds? Now they have to monopolize public class time? Okay then. Who decides what constitutes legitimate “religious instruction”? If I was a kid, could I take off after lunch to get instructions in Dudeism? How about some quality noodling time for Pastafarians? How about some Native American religions of the Southwest? Can I get baked on peyote a couple times a week and call it a “vision quest”? And if I’m an atheist, I can just chill for an hour and still get credit, right?

    Right? Hell, why go to school at all? Apparently everything I need to know can be found in a bible. Or the Book of Mormon. Or the Koran. Or L. Ron Hubbard’s Dianetics, or…..

  11. I can’t wait for the first no-faith applicant…

    They could study all religions, hang out at their clubs, watch their rituals then write a scathing critic. Full marks and a scholarship to Oral Roberts University!

  12. FYI: Sponsor testimony…. today!!! Hope somebody is going to get involved just go and listen to their BS. No use complaining.

    HB 171 html or pdf; Subject: Students-receive credit for released-time, off-site religious courses; Committee Assigned: Education; Cosponsors: Representatives Amstutz, Beck, Becker, Buchy, Burkley, Derickson, Hall, Hayes, Henne, Hill, Hood, Huffman, Retherford, Smith, Thompson, Wachtmann

    Status Report of Legislation: available; Bill Analyses: n/a; Synopsis of Committee Amendments: n/a; Conference Committee Synopsis: n/a; Fiscal Notes: n/a; Votes: n/a

    Ohio House of Representatives Education Committee, hearings from 4:30PM, Room 121 [PDF, p.5]

    Chair: Gerald L. Stebelton (R), District 77. 2 terms on the Lancaster Board of Education, aeronautical engineer, not eligible to run for another term after December 2014, also on Primary and Secondary Education Subcommittee

    Vice Chair: Andrew Brenner (R), District 67. Bus Admin, 11y entrepreneur – real estate & mortgages, of the Vestry of St. Peters Episcopal Church

    Ranking Minority Member: Teresa Fedor (D) – House District 45. 18y teacher, military service, Veterans Affairs, House Women’s Caucus, 2012 landmark Human Trafficking legislation

    1st Hearing for HB 171 Sponsor testimony

    Primary sponsors

    1. Jeff McClain (R), District 87. Bus Admin, scholarship athlete, 26y Wyandot County Auditor, “faith-based boards”

    2. Bill Patmon (D), District 77. 12y Cleveland City Council, oversaw $1.4 billion budget, chaired Employment & Affirmative Action, manage construction of Grafton Correctional Facility & Garrett Morgan Water Treatment Plant, Pres. East Erie Enterprise

    Directories: Standing CommitteesFinance and Appropriations CommitteeHouse of Representatives Directory

    What might be changed (incomplete): 3313.614 Testing requirements for fulfilling curriculum requirement for diplomaBoards of EducationTitle [33] XXXIII Eduction – LibrariesOhio Revised Code

    • In reply to #22 by fractaloid:

      FYI: Sponsor testimony…. today!!! Hope somebody is going to get involved just go and listen to their BS. No use complaining.

      HB 171 html or pdf; Subject: Students-receive credit for released-time, off-site religious courses; Committee Assigned: Education; Cosponsors: Representatives Amstutz, Beck…

      How and where did you find this? It’s today and there is no way that I can leave work and drive down to Columbus. I have to wonder how this information can be obtained much earlier. I planned on writing a letter and maybe I still will since this is the first hearing and it could still move forward. I wonder if this will be televised??

  13. After years of discussion with my cousin John here he finally ends up on RDF website; his picture at least. He currently resides deep in the hills of my home state of Kentucky and when I see him every year at our family reunion the discussions of religion and faith continue.

    Apparently in vain.

    My father was raised by his grandparents, he and John were like brothers. My father never believed any of the religion stuff but John bought into it hook, line and sinker. Years later my father is an engineer and assists a youth folk dance group during their travels around the world. Where these kids get an opportunity to not be a tourist, but get to experience the culture they are visiting because lodging and touring is always with hosts families. You can actually see; in real time, peoples xenophobic tendencies evaporate. Once these kids experience that people in other places are no different fundamentally, then they are: They see that these are mothers and fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts and uncles. I know for some of these kids its their first experience of the expanding circle…

    …Now John on the other hand takes his youthful group outside to a bus were it is ‘legal’ to lie to children (of course, John believes differently). Then he proceeds to (unknowingly) implant religions divisive themes and thus, I think, is damaging to these children’s future.

    But, what do I know?

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