Christianity is dying in England, and in France Catholic priests are only preaching to pensioners

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A WARNING has been sounded by the Catholic Bishop of Shrewsbury that Christians may soon become “strangers in our own land”.


The Rt Rev Mark Davies was delivering his grim message to more than 1,000 young Catholics, aged between 16 and 30, at a five-day prayer-fest in Norfolk. He urged them to make a “clear stand” for their faith after recent Government data which suggest Christians living in Britain will soon become a minority.

The bishop told his audience that the results of the last census suggested most Britons would not describe themselves as Christians by 2020. A recent think-tank warned that 4,000 churches could close by 2020 if congregations continue to shrink at current rates.

Bishop Davies said:

With more than three million in Rio last month and with more than a thousand in Walsingham this weekend, we might not really feel like a minority but that is what Christians are about to become in this country of ours.

Written By: Barry Duke
continue to source article at freethinker.co.uk

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  1. isn’t it funny what a costume will do? there was once a time when looking at this monkey’s garb, i’d think how nice the colours and the cut, etc. but now i have a feeling of revulsion. similarly, with a burqa, revulsion and fear, where once i thought it was just a silly sack-like cloth which flowed and billowed interestingly in the wind. now, the former evokes thoughts of lying, cheating, and scandal, whilst the latter reminds me that there’s an entire cult of about 1 billion people who hate and fear women and homosexuals enough to subjugate and or hurt them!

  2. This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or places for corporate and other retreats and entertainment. Imagine booking a room at Canterbury Cathedral or throwing a birthday party at St. Paul’s! Heck: if it’s good enough for God, it’s good enough for me.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants.

      I’ve heard that something similar has already been going on in the four Scandinavian countries for years now. Some of the smaller churches in rural areas have been converted into souvenir shops, selling postcards, refrigerator magnets and other nick-nacks. They may have removed the pews, but many of these little shops still have ornate stained glass windows. It adds a bit of novelty to what would otherwise be very ordinary tourist traps.

      • In reply to #3 by IDLERACER:

        In reply to #2 by RDfan:

        This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants.

        I’ve heard that something similar has already been going on in the four Scandinavian countries for years now. Some of the smaller churches in rural areas have been c…

        Out in the country they make great ski lofts. We have one in town that is an antique store.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or pla…

      This has been going on for millenia, as soon as the second religion was started the first began to wither. It’s not whether they wither just when.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or pla…

      Don’t forget restaurants and libraries. A great many churches have been converted this way in Australia. Also gift shops, houses, school halls, community centres. The list goes on.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants.

      One in Worcester is now a pub and another in Sheffield was taken over by the university and used as a lecture theatre.

      • In reply to #15 by Vorlund:

        In reply to #2 by RDfan:This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants.One in Worcester is now a pub and another in Sheffield was taken over by the university and used as a lecture theatre.

        The accoustics in Worcester cathedral are amazing. It would be an amazing concert venue.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or pla…

      There are already many such converted churches — which are almost always beautiful buildings. I recently had lunch in one in Nottingham, England, the Pitcher and Piano, surrounded by fabulous stained glass windows. Like having lunch with the Holy Ghost.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or pla…

      There’s a very nice Victorian ex-church near where I live which is a restaurant/bistro/bar/theatre and club. It has new murals by Alasdair Gray. Another, a bit further away, is a theatre and restaurant. It’s good to see them being used for something useful.

    • In reply to #2 by RDfan:

      This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or pla…

      Here in Australia we have churches converted to restaurants, music venues, bookshops, holiday accommodation, etc. but most of the smaller unwanted churches are being converted to private homes. Not sure what will happen to cathedrals when they are no longer used for the telling of fairy stories by men in dresses and funny hats or for strange rituals involving symbolic eating of flesh and drinking of blood of a 2000 year old zombie.

  3. This demise might be hastened by chastising any Catholic with children for irresponsibility.

    The main advantage to becoming a priest was a institution to aid and abet your pedophile habit. It provided you victims, authority, a plausible threat. It provided a quick escape to a new country with a new identity if things got too hot. The church can no longer offer that camouflage. If you became a priest the assumption is 99% you are a pedophile, hardly respectable.

    In South America, the Catholics are losing out to more lively churches with better music. Catholic services are deadly dull. However, these charismatic churches have even whackier beliefs than the Catholics.

    The spread of Islam both by births and conversion is more of a problem than the Catholics. Catholics at least give lip service to the first amendment. Islam believes it is the only legitimate religion, and that killing is legitimate to defend that view.

    • In reply to #6 by Roedy:

      If you became a priest the assumption is 99% you are a pedophile

      Since this is a forum for reason and science, someone might think your 99% is backed up by statistics, but it seems more likely to be a measure of your prejudice.

      Looking at the USA:

      It seems about 4% of priests may be pedophile. source

      But between 1 and 5% of the population of USA may be pedophile source

      So it is possible that the proportion of USA men who enter the priesthood and are also pedophile, is no higher than any in other ‘occupation’.

  4. In the middle ages, red dyes were very hard to come by. Later the conquistadors discovered a red dye in South America. They kept knowledge of it secret and were able to sell it for more than its weight in gold. It could produce quite a range of red dyes. It was used for conspicuous consumption, such as the hat and trim of the priest above and as a lipstick. Today the secret is out, it is cochineal, dried Dactylopius coccus beetles.

  5. It’s a situation consistent with their respective national characters. The English are and always have been philosophers at heart. That’s why progressive thinking has always taken a foothold there first. The French are artists, so while that makes them more open minded, it also caters to a romantic attachment to the past, so they won’t give up traditional religion quite as readily …

    • In reply to #12 by david.gaunt.54:

      I’d love to sit in a wetherspoons admiring the stained glass windows, very spiritual (literally) Cant think of a better use( apart from housing the homeless).

      There’s a pitcher and piano in nottingham that used to be a church if that’s any good, and there’s a few that I’m aware of in cardiff that have met similar fates.

  6. “Make a stand”? What does that mean exactly? Nobody is stopping them believing what they like, we are just stopping them telling us what to do. Does “make a stand” mean they should fight to keep their tax free status and privilege?

    Catholics have always been strangers in this land, since they tried to get Henry VIII to do their bidding. A foreign power. Their most famous act was trying to blow up the houses of parliament. They were just the al qaeda of the middle ages.

    • In reply to #13 by Aber ration:

      Catholics have always been strangers in this land, since they tried to get Henry VIII to do their bidding

      Not true.

      Until Henry VIII, England was a Catholic country. To this day our coins are marked FD by the monarchs head. Fides Defensor (spelling might not be correct) or Defender of the Faith was a title awarded to Henry by the Pope.

      It was only because the Pope told him he couldn’t divorce his wife that he founded his own church

      • In reply to #16 by N_Ellis:

        It was only because the Pope told him he couldn’t divorce his wife that he founded his own church

        I think you mean because the Pope refused to annul the marriage. Usually they were more than happy to oblige (no-one benefited from messy succession disputes): the refusal in this case was because the Pope was under military threat from Wife No. 1′s nephew, the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.

      • In reply to #16 by N_Ellis:

        In reply to #13 by Aber ration:

        Catholics have always been strangers in this land, since they tried to get Henry VIII to do their bidding

        Not true.
        ….
        It was only because the Pope told him he couldn’t divorce his wife that he founded his own church

        This old canard has been propagated by the church of Rome ever since.

        Call me cynical but didn’t the dissolution of the monasteries [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Monasteries] provide financial advantages to the crown? About a quarter of the kingdom’s landed wealth was owned by religious houses in the 16th century and was this neat idea not perhaps the brainchild of Thomas Cromwell, who ran Henry’s exchequer? …rather than the continuing attempt of the king to get a male heir?

        Not many have mentioned nightclubs as a use for old church buildings; the one near me, with banal predictability, is called ‘Temptations’.

  7. So what is the RCC going to do? If people are ‘excommunicating’ themselves you can hardly hold that over their heads.Torture and burning?.No siree, brute force aint gonna work.Not among the modern Catholics at any rate. Maybe the pope will suddenly hear voices from god and become infallible again!

    It’s good to be alive in this day and age.

  8. With more than three million in Rio last month and with more than a thousand in Walsingham this weekend, we might not really feel like a minority but that is what Christians are about to become in this country of ours.

    The country has not been “THEIRS” since Henry VIII .
    Funny how the RCC becomes inclusive of “Christians”, when playing with numbers!

  9. These Ponzi schemes are running out of steam fast. The amount of street level information that is now freely available is astounding. The average bod probably gets as much info in a few months as someone in 1900 got in a lifetime. Even a few decades have made a colossal difference in the way we are exposed to new ideas and evidence. Churches can no longer rely on social inertia to keep people ignorant.

  10. Some might experience malicious pleasure over this, but I feel torn about it. The reality is that many of the people moving away from the RC church join other, often wackier, religions. And those are harder to confront and criticise. It’s much more practical to attack one major religion, poke holes in a dogma that millions share, and confront its official spokespeople. But when communities split into several denominations, it’s harder to manage a full frontal conversational assault against all of them. It’s difficult to discuss about wishy-washy faiths that don’t have any visible leaders. Criticism of them will be ignored by most, as people focus on their own numerous faiths which are often mixtures of a variety of creeds. And on top of this, many people will hide behind a cloak of “spirituality”; a vague faith without any core beliefs. Without a specific set of beliefs that mean something to many people, it’s harder to hit home a message of them being wrong.

    • In reply to #20 by Aztek:

      Some might experience malicious pleasure over this, but I feel torn about it. The reality is that many of the people moving away from the RC church join other, often wackier, religions. And those are harder to confront and criticise. It’s much more practical to attack one major religion, poke holes…

      Any pleasure over this is of the healthiest kind. But you’re right about celebrating too soon. We have to keep a keen eye out on the Islamic pestilence festering all across Europe.

      The treatment Scientology receives in many European countries could serve as a template for how to treat all woo mongers -none of whom have any more demonstrable validity than Scientology does.

      • In reply to #48 by godsbuster:

        In reply to #20 by Aztek:

        Some might experience malicious pleasure over this, but I feel torn about it. The reality is that many of the people moving away from the RC church join other, often wackier, religions. And those are harder to confront and criticise. It’s much more practical to attack one…

        The year is 2167 and the north central European confederation of Islamic states has finally destroyed all copies (paper and digital) of every leading atheist publication of the 21st century. The “transition period” of the early 21st century when the godless infidels perceived an ultimate destruction of religious belief systems has been forgotten. Sharia law now stretches from Europe to Indonesia with burgeoning pockets in South and Central America. Every day one can hear the many faithful cry out: Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.

        • In reply to #49 by giggity:

          In reply to #48 by godsbuster:

          In reply to #20 by Aztek:

          The year is 2167 and the north central European confederation of Islamic states has finally destroyed all copies (paper and digital) of every leading atheist publication of the 21st century. The “transition period” of the early 21st century when the godless infidels perceived an ultimate destructi

          That would make a great script for a movie to add to all the other sci-fi dystopias out there. Wonder why it hasn’t been made yet….oh, wait…

  11. ‘Christians may soon become’ “Strangers in our own land.” ; quote quote quote! Note the ‘our own land’ bit; like, it’s theirs?!

    And who prey is bringing about this supposed or imagined banishment? Well, who do you think.

    Anyway, I thought banishment and suffering were all part and parcel of the “religious experience”.

    I suppose he and others of his ilk have somehow got to justify their position; I heard the soon to resign Chief Rabbi warning that without religion, society will descend into turmoil; the subtext being that without religious leaders you’re all doomed! Doomed I tell you!!

    What peace and tranquility religion has brought to the world.

  12. “strangers in our own land”.

    your land? hmm if i wasnt a committed christian i’d think you care less about the afterlife promised by jesus and more about all that property and political power he railled against.

    look on the bright side, you’re getting a much more gentle send off than those who used to call this their land when christians first arrived

  13. In France thousands churches are transformed to restaurants, offices, art displays etc…
    I saw a chuch converted in a mecanic factory.

    Only 15 priest ordonned in 2012 and some black africans priests was “imported” for our country side.

    This fall was very fast and strong.
    Born in a catholic familly with a uncle priest, i became atheist like 25-30% of frenchmen.
    But i think to be more closer to the peace and love message of Jesus than many hypocrits christians.

    sorry for my bad english

  14. I saw a church converted to a gallery; it was perfect. Let’s face it, there have been great depictions with religious themes throughout many centuries. It used art to support and build its power. It’s time religion gave back to the arts.

  15. Aztek comment 20

    Some might experience malicious pleasure over this, but I feel torn about it. The reality is that many of the people moving away from the RC church join other, often wackier, religions. And those are harder to confront and criticise. It’s much more practical to attack one major religion, poke holes in a dogma that millions share, and confront its official spokespeople. But when communities split into several denominations, it’s harder to manage a full frontal conversational assault against all of them. It’s difficult to discuss about wishy-washy faiths that don’t have any visible leaders. Criticism of them will be ignored by most, as people focus on their own numerous faiths which are often mixtures of a variety of creeds. And on top of this, many people will hide behind a cloak of “spirituality”; a vague faith without any core beliefs. Without a specific set of beliefs that mean something to many people, it’s harder to hit home a message of them being wrong.

    I also feel torn about this because I agree it often heralds a move towards more extreme religions. The established churches in the UK are at fairly moderate. Even the RCC is relatively toothless here, with congregations there for ritual and tradition rather than rules to live by. They are dying but in their place we are seeing a lot of newer US style mega loony style churches. Far more hard line than what they are replacing. And where I am we have a small but disturbing number of women and girls converting to Islam.

    If it were just the old religions dying it would indeed be a reason to celebrate but I fear it isn’t. In Latin America for example the RCC is losing out to evangelical protestantism and Islam. At best no different, but I fear in real terms even worse if that is possible.

    • Yeah, I really can’t wrap my head around WOMEN of all people converting to islam. that religion, as far as I can tell, offers women nothing but more oppression!In reply to #30 by PG:

      Aztek comment 20

      Some might experience malicious pleasure over this, but I feel torn about it. The reality is that many of the people moving away from the RC church join other, often wackier, religions. And those are harder to confront and criticise. It’s much more practical to attack one major rel…

  16. david.gaunt54 :

    I’d love to sit in a wetherspoons admiring the stained glass windows, very spiritual (literally) Cant think of a better use( apart from housing the homeless).

    There a very nice old flint church in Muswell Hill, North London, where you can take the sacrament of Premier League football on a Sunday whilst drinking your pint ! Any “sinners” are obviously the referee or that bar-steward playing for the other side ! Forgiveness comes when your team scores ! Indeed the rapture itself.

    Not sure if it’s a Weatherspoons though.

  17. In a place called “New Hope” (Pennsylvania), there is an awesome bar/restaurant that has set up in a wonderful 125 year old church. It is called Marsha Brown’s and while enjoying some BYOB wine and a 5 star meal, you can revel in the fact that the only people that this particular church will hurt anymore are those of us who overeat or over drink (I did both while there).

    I find this is a great use for a church…… why???? Because it generates jobs and the owners are obligated to pay taxes! The property finally gives back to the community in some tangible way.

  18. In reply to #32 by Logar, ‘but, but, they did it too’

    The safest approach which I taught my kids was to avoid clergy altogether because the risk was excessively high.
    Claiming that everyone else rapes kids anyway (tu quoque) is a highly unsatisfactory excuse to deploy in defending deviant clerics. Paedophilia is a learned behaviour which has been characteristic of sexually repressive Catholic indoctrination for many centuries. About 20% of remaining Catholic clergy are likely offenders, possibly more, going by the latest conviction rates. The Vatican already self-reports 4% and we’ve yet to discover their files or their elaborate, international evasion technology.

    In the general population we’re aware (courtesy of your second link) that more than 9 out of 10 child rapists are attentively religious devotees of biblegod. Atheism is a preventative mode of thought to such biblical behaviour.

    • In reply to #38 by Len Walsh:
      You have grossly misrepresented my comment.
      I was attempting to defend a correct use of statistics (certainly not defend deviant clerics).
      Lets check what follows if someone accepts Roedy’s statement

      If you became a priest the assumption is 99% you are a pedophile

      … as though it was a reliable statistical fact:

      This statement implies a correlation of 0.99 between “person entered priesthood” and “person is pedophile”.
      Now suppose Mr X holding this belief got a job at the Clergy Project
      A former Catholic priest, now non-believer turns up. No other information being available Mr X will say “there is only a 1% probability that you are NOT a pedophile. Get out of here!”
      Do you see now why made-up statistics are harmful, and should not be left unchallenged.

    • In reply to #42 by disillusioned hippy:

      here in our little rural town two churches have been turned into private dwellings, and in nearby city of Bristol one is being used as a tyre and exhaust centre

      this seems like a misuse of a beautiful building.

  19. In reply to #30 by PG:

    Aztek comment 20

    Some might experience malicious pleasure over this, but I feel torn about it. The reality is that many of the people moving away from the RC church join other, often wackier, religions. And those are harder to confront and criticise. It’s much more practical to attack one major rel…

    I don’t know if that’s really the case. I think a lot more people drift away into indifference to any of it.

  20. “The bishop told his audience that the results of the last census suggested most Britons would not describe themselves as Christians by 2020.”

    This guy needs to get real. 1.6% of us attend a weekly Church of England service. 1.2% of under-16s. Catholics do a little less trade. For all Christian denominations combined the total is less than 5%.

    We may well have many “cultural Christians” but in terms of seriously religious believers the bishop lost the debate decades ago. What’s left is a slow decline to oblivion while we wait for demographics to do to the bishop, his fellow-priests and parishioners what demographics do to us all in the long run.

    Both Catholic and Anglican churches in Britain have average ages for priests and parishioners of over 60, and rising. Both face acute crises in recruiting seminarians. They have nowhere to go. They are dead men walking.

    • In reply to #55 by Stevehill:

      “The bishop told his audience that the results of the last census suggested most Britons would not describe themselves as Christians by 2020.”

      This guy needs to get real. 1.6% of us attend a weekly Church of England service. 1.2% of under-16s. Catholics do a little less trade. For all Christian…

      The link in the original article gives the average age of priests in france as 75.

      This Bishop is IMO a bit of a nasty piece of work. A couple of years ago he was terrifying what remains of his flock, and I think trying to influence the lapsed, with warnings about “the reality of Hell”.

  21. Logar #53, “You have grossly misrepresented my comment. I was attempting to defend a correct use of statistics”

    By erroneously attacking Roedy’s robust deduction that the Vatican traditionally anticipates their novitiates will be psychosexually damaged and malleable? I had formerly estimated that certainty at roughly 92.7% but after considering his explanatory remarks Roedy’s assessed 99% confidence level now seems fair to me. Considering his remarks in note #6 how could you possibly defend assigning any less confidence on the part of Vatican recruiters? Why hide all the relevant files Logar? Why defend the indefensible?

    Seeking to argue everyone else does it too, at the same statistical rate as our clergy, is tu quoque and no excuse at all. Using dodgy percentages to camouflage the worldwide extent of the damage RC clerics visit on kids, by pretending priests reflect community rates of offending, is a cynical abuse of statistics Logar.

    According to your own link 93% of child rapists are visibly religious, authentic Xians, frequently devout Catholics. 93% of ‘em. Howzat for a statistic to think about, instead of misrepresenting Roedy’s pertinent remarks?

    • In reply to #63 by downshifter:

      I remember driving across Britain and one of the weirdest things I saw was a church that had been converted to a pub.

      Ah well! That lifts the standard of the spirit being sold!

  22. I read more today by the Chief Rabbi; he maintains that without religion we would be incapable of achieving great things; the precise opposite of what has actually happened over two millennia, with religion’s condemnation and countering of almost every scientific advance, a few of which reactionary and impetuous outbursts are of course infamous.

    Time and again blind faith has been proved to be wrong! And yet, those of said mentality would appear to be incorrigible.

    Surely, it’s time to grow up!

  23. I wish people would stop using the word paedophile as though it means child molester. It doesn’t.

    It’s OK to be a paedophile as long as you don’t ACT on it. I’m a bibliophile, but that doesn’t mean I steal or damage books. I fancy grown women, but I don’t go round molesting them.

    • In reply to #65 by CEVA34:

      The calamitous demise of British and French churches is welcome news for children. This will help to break the cycle which provokes this most abhorrent example of a biblically induced sexual fetish.

      It’s OK to be a paedophile…

      No, not really, it really isn’t OK at all. I think it’s objectively disordered to “fancy” children. Similar devotion to one’s gumboot is harmless to others, whether or not acted upon, although best accomplished privately.

  24. Of course, those who no longer regard themselves as Christian become something else – they don’t just disappear – they become humanists and it will be they that become the majority.

  25. Yes, Bishop, you and your fellow believers are becoming strangers in your own land, not because you do not belong there, but because you identify with a very strange and needless superstition. Ditch the superstition, and you may find that you fit in much better. Unfortunately, you yourself will have to stop wearing that mediaeval outfit, especially if you need to find a job.

  26. I hope one day this bishop will be honest enough to admit that he and his cronies have deluded their congregations for as long as they are able and that they have no option but to give up and admit that it was all nonsense.

  27. It does make me smile when the religious trolls come here to spout their nonsense as if that is all it takes to convince us they are right and we are wrong. 99% of these people are just hit and run twits who can’t keep their sickness to themselves or make a sound case. We do get the odd one putting up a good fight defending the indefensible and I hope that we may actually make them question their beliefs.


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  28. I see in our local paper that we have a couple of replacement “Priests” or “Vicars”, or whatever you call them coming to nearby communities to where I live (SW UK). I would like to “welcome” them by writing something suitable in the local paper. I intend for it to be a difficult challenge for these people who have always had nice things written in these welcoming articles. However I intend for my letter to be an attack taking the form of various questions such as “Why does God need to be worshipped?”, “Why do you feel that you should worship someone so vain and insecure?”, What would happen if you suddenly stopped your worship?” etc; They can’t ignore questions like these so I will write their answers on this page when the time comes if there is any interest.
    I would invite all you wonderful free thinkers to suggest other questions I can use. Should be fun!
    sylwin1

    • In reply to #84 by sylwin1:

      I see in our local paper that we have a couple of replacement “Priests” or “Vicars”, or whatever you call them coming to nearby communities to where I live (SW UK). I would like to “welcome” them by writing something suitable in the local paper. I intend for it to be a difficult challenge for these…

      They would probably welcome the opportunity to write an extensive reply, giving them free publicity and a prosthelytising opportunity, in the local paper! There are no “diificult challenges”, for faith-thinkers” making up their own facts! The verbosity just flows!

    • In reply to #84 by sylwin1:

      I see in our local paper that we have a couple of replacement “Priests” or “Vicars”, or whatever you call them coming to nearby communities to where I live (SW UK). I would like to “welcome” them by writing something suitable in the local paper. I intend for it to be a difficult challenge for these…
      Holsworthy has a new vicar.

      Well OK, but I was left in a state of confusion after reading about his
      “installation” and trying to understand the highly stratified rank system
      God uses to organise his earthbound officers. It’s easily as complicated as
      the military systems. Forgive me but I am just an ignorant person needing to
      be educated in this matter so maybe the officers of the church depicted in
      the welcoming article (Sept 5th) can help me out. As well as, perhaps, a
      good many equally mystified congregation members who attend Church each week
      and never even wonder about it all.

      Listed in no particular order there was a “Priest in charge”, and he was
      “installed” by an “Archdeacon”, however he was “licenced” by a “Bishop” and
      there was also a “Bishop’s Chaplain”. There was also a reference to a
      “Vicar” and a “Rector” and the prefix of Rev for Reverend. There was even a
      “Right Reverend”. Some of these confusing titles seem to refer to the same
      person!

      This is ego boosting stuff! There are questions fairly leaping out of the
      page about all of this but is there anyone out there willing to have a go at
      explaining what the difference is between them all? After reading all this I
      went to Google and they seemed to be just as confused as me. But there is
      more : Curates, Deans, Deacon’s, Canons, Archbishops and so on. Some people
      are even referred to as “Your Holiness”. These questions are all rhetorical
      because, in my opinion, their answers will not usefully enlighten anyone.

      But, as always, at the bottom of the pile there is the person on whom the
      whole system most depends and is regarded as the least important, the most
      ignorant, is most in need of moral and pastoral care and is most
      exploitable. Whose role is to quietly sit and listen to their betters and
      definitely not ask questions. They are vastly more important to the Church
      than any of these people of rank and vastly more important than any Gods
      they have been telling us about for a couple of millenia.

      This is the faithful worshipper who has been turning up each week, come rain
      or shine, for a good many centuries now and it looks as if they have begun
      asking themselves the most important question of all….. WHY?

  29. This may not be the end for churches. I can imagine them being converted to theaters, bars and restaurants. If they’re big enough, they could be the location for tech and entrepreneur hubs — a place for new start-ups to gather and exchange ideas. They may even be converted to museums, hotels or places for corporate and other retreats and entertainment. Imagine booking a room at Canterbury Cathedral or throwing a birthday party at St. Paul’s! Heck: if it’s good enough for God, it’s good enough for me.

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  30. Britain is not their land ! – as the African christian guy in France claims…..
    Me and my ancestors are Celtic / Gaelic – Scots and Irish – It was our land for thousands of years before pagan Romans invaded, stole our land and installed their empires, then the Catholic Christians came…etc etc…
    What is this guy trying to incite by saying make a stand….? a mass mating of all catholics….to out-compete with the Muslims ? that’s probably what its about ….The catholics / christians are fading away fast…but the muslims of UK will take a while longer to shake off the shakles …the sooner they all go the better…not the people – just the religions….

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