If you think Christians here are persecuted, you need to grow up

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The notion that religious freedom is under siege isn't just an American preoccupation. Some Christian leaders in Britain also have sounded the alarm, prompting a pointed rejoinder from the former spiritual leader of the Church of England that also should be required reading for paranoid American religious conservatives.


Rowan Williams, who retired as Archbishop of Canterbury last year to return to academic life, said, “I am always very uneasy when people sometimes in this country or the United States talk about persecution of Christians, or rather, believers.”

Christians in Britain and the United States may fairly complain about being ridiculed, Williams acknowledged. But he contrasted that experience with the “murderous hostility” faced by Christians in other parts of the world.

“I think we are made to feel uncomfortable at times. We're made to feel as if we're idiots — perish the thought! But that kind of level of not being taken very seriously or being made fun of; I mean for goodness sake, grow up.”

To be fair, the U.S. Catholic bishops and others who have raised alarms about threats to religious freedom don't talk only about rhetorical slights. For example, the bishops argue that when the government or the courts legalize same-sex civil marriage, “conflict results on a massive scale between the law and religious institutions and families…. Religious liberty is then threatened.” Really?

Written By: Michael McGough
continue to source article at latimes.com

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  1. Christians should think VERY carefully before flinging around words like PERSECUTION. Tax exemptions for religious institutions,a proliferation of said institutions and of the mega variety forsooth,Christian politicians too numerous to mention by name,freedom to worship in whatever manner they desire,be it the handling of venemous snakes or rolling in the aisles in a fit of religious fervour…Life is actually pretty rosy,seems to me.

    Now,let’s look at Giordano Bruno.Tortured unspeakably and burnt at the stake.Persecution at the hands of Christians.

    Alan Turing,jailed and driven to take his own life.Persecution at the hands of Christians.

    Bertrand Russell.Contract at City College of NY reneged on because of his book on marriage.Unconventional views that the Powers that Were at the college thought would ‘corrupt the minors’. Persecution at the hands of Christians.

    Darwin,who would not publish until he absolutely had to because of not wanting to hurt his wife, a devout Christian.
    Richard Dawkins and other evolutionary biologists who have to endure creationists like the idiotic Wendy Somebody or the other.
    Persecution at the hands of Christians.

    The above are all examples of varying degrees of Christian intolerance.

    Christians want to dictate to everyone around but NO ONE is allowed to criticise their beliefs.Well, that is changing,and a damned good thing too.We will continue to criticise with impunity.We will not hurt Christians but we will speak our minds,because we have that right -at last.

    • In reply to #1 by Christiana Magdalene Moodley:

      Darwin,who would not publish until he absolutely had to because of not wanting to hurt his wife, a devout Christian. Richard Dawkins and other evolutionary biologists who have to endure creationists like the idiotic Wendy Somebody or the other. Persecution at the hands of Christians.

      I agree with you that Christians shouldn’t throw around the word persecution the way they do but I don’t think you should return the favor by saying that Dawkins has been persecuted. I mean last time I checked he seems to be doing just fine in his life and when you talk about persecution I think of something far more serious.

      • I do see what you mean and in a sense I agree with you.On the other hand persecution also means facing continuous hostility, persistent annoyance. which Dawkins and others face when people repudiate evolution.As you say, though they are doing fine!In reply to #9 by bjchiaro50:

        In reply to #1 by Christiana Magdalene Moodley:

        Darwin,who would not publish until he absolutely had to because of not wanting to hurt his wife, a devout Christian. Richard Dawkins and other evolutionary biologists who have to endure creationists like the idiotic Wendy Somebody or the other. Persec…

  2. The Puritans left England for America not because they couldn’t be Puritans in their
    mother country, but because they were not allowed to force others to become Puritans; in the New World, of course,
    they could and did.
    ~ Gore Vidal 1925-10-03 2012-07-30

    • In reply to #2 by Roedy:

      The Puritans left England for America not because they couldn’t be Puritans in their
      mother country, but because they were not allowed to force others to become Puritans; in the New World, of course,
      they could and did.
      ~ Gore Vidal 1925-10-03 2012-07-30

      That is exactly right. The well-known myth that the Puritans were fleeing intolerance – when it was actually tolerance they were fleeing!

    • In reply to #2 by Roedy:

      The Puritans left England for America not because they couldn’t be Puritans in their
      mother country, but because they were not allowed to force others to become Puritans; in the New World, of course,
      they could and did.
      ~ Gore Vidal 1925-10-03 2012-07-30

      You know, I’ve told people before that the Pilgrim Fathers fled the persecution of not being allowed to persecute others. People don’t believe it, but it’s true.

  3. Xtians are not persecuted at all never mind persecuted for being Xtians!

    They are however rightly ridiculed for being ridiculous viz we can point and laugh at people who wear clowns costumes.

    They are rightly lambasted for having the effrontery of imposing their intellectual treason and perverse moralities on everyone else.

    But persecuted? They are no longer allowed to persecute others in impressive ways, though I dare say some certainly lament the loss of ‘the privilege’ and would love to lynch and burn a few commandment breakers.

    No other advanced country has 26 pithering unctuous woo peddlars in its upper house interfering in the laws of a secular country and they still feel persecuted? The Cof E invests money in businesses (I heard somewhere recently that pornography is not entirely off limits) yet is exempt from tax!!! Persecuted? Dear Xtians you are fortunate to live in a country where secular values prevail and where atheists are only inclined to raise an eyebrow at your puerile behaviour otherwise you’d no more of the meaning of the word ‘persecution’.

  4. When the village idiot poses as an expert on science, reasoning, and social morality, he/she SHOULD expect to be ridiculed, but is seldom bright enough to recognise that!

    Rowan Williams, who retired as Archbishop of Canterbury last year to return to academic life, said, “I am always very uneasy when people sometimes in this country or the United States talk about persecution of Christians, or rather, believers.”

    There is the odd theist exception which tends to prove the rule!

  5. I’d love to know at what point ridicule became a form of persecution. it makes me wonder why it’s not more common in dictatorships. would be a lot cheaper than all that imprisoning and torture, plus the authorities dishing out this persecution would probably have much more fun and be able to go home to their families and have a bit of a chuckle about their day at work rather than having to keep the details from their loved ones of what they do and handle all that guilt alone.

    maybe if christians are getting such a hard time from all those mean atheists they should go live in a more religious country like, i dunno, iran?

  6. I can’t think of a case of “persecution” in the UK that isn’t special pleading to be allowed to be able to discriminate or opt out of the law of the land.
    Recent cases include:

    The right to bar same sex couples from your Bed and breakfast.

    The right to wear crucifixes in the face of a no jewelry company policy.

    The right of somebody employed as a relationship counsellor to withhold heir counseling for gay people.

    The right of councillors to include prayer as part of their official council business for which they are being paid.

    And of course most bizarrely, the right to enforce a policy where same sex couples cannot marry in the eyes of the law.

    Does anybody know of a case where somebody has been victimised purely because of the fact they are Christian?

  7. What is it with Christians and their masochistic joy at crying persecution? That notion may have sold during the waning years of the old Roman Empire (though contemporary historians now believe that most tales of persecution were essentially pious propaganda to rally the faithful), but when you’re the dominant religion of western civilization and have been for 1600 years, it’s a little ridiculous to continue your pity party.

    When it comes to loudly whining and bemoaning your perpetual victimhood to gain special favors, I am proud/sad to say that my 5 year old girl grew out of this phase faster than the Christian faith.

  8. Let me know when a Christian is beaten to death or tortured for being Christian…. Oh wait they are the ones who beat, torture, and ridicule people just for being homosexual. Christians are the persecutors more than they are the persecuted in America.

  9. I know it’s an unpopular view to hold, but I think Williams was a rather good Archbishop, and now he’s back in academia I think we’ll continue to see him being surprisingly outspoken against the more whacky factions of Christianity. In fact, if I were a betting man, I would put money on him eventually supporting same-sex marriage.

  10. Well Christians ARE persecuted in some parts of the world. Usually by Muslims in countries where Christians are only a small minority. Like Coptic Christians in Egypt or Christians in Pakistan. But in Europe or the US, Christians are in NO WAY persecuted. Since Christians vastly outnumber any other religious group in the US (including atheists), the idea of them being persecuted is more than complete nonsense, it is politically and socially unfeasible.

    Fundamentalists of any religion have a strange blend of unpleasant character traits. On the one hand, they are complete bullies when it comes to imposing their views while on the other hand, they act like pathetic crybabies when someone challenges their beliefs. They cry murder and play the victim card at the slightest critique or parody but don’t hesitate to infringe on other people’s rights when it suits their agenda.

    The typical profile of a control freak… And they wonder why non-religious people dislike them so much.

  11. This is a classic case of the bully playing the role of victim. Whenever a traditionally domineering group (Protestant Christianity in this case) experiences an erosion of its power, it perceives that as “persecution”. Boo-flippin-hoo.

  12. Compare with being a Coptic Christian in Egypt.

    Christians have privileges in Britain. IIRC:

    1. the Monarch must be an Anglican
    2. state subsidised religious schools
    3. tax breaks non-Christians do not get
    4. tax money to maintain religious buildings
  13. maybe all this whining isn’t for our benefit but for jebus’s?

    they whine a lot for a group of people who, on the whole have it better than anyone else, so maybe they’re worried about going to heaven and getting asked “did you learn nothing of what i said about hoarding money or judging others or the whole forgiveness thing?!” and are hoping to get a room in the martyr quarter through the almighty power of self-pity (I notice it works when they use it on each other, presumibly their creator is just as gullible as their church friends)

  14. Christians in Britain and the United States may fairly complain about being ridiculed, Williams acknowledged. But he contrasted that experience with the “murderous hostility” faced by Christians in other parts of the world.

    Perhaps the whingeing US and European Xtians should visit some of their fellow faith-heads, and rival faith-heads, to gain an undrstanding of the word “persecution”!

    http://www.richarddawkins.net/news-articles/2013/8/21/christian-churches-across-egypt-stormed-torched#

  15. Anyway the poor persecuted darlings can have something new to whinge about!

    Michael Palin is to play the role of God in the Monty Python musical Spamalot, in London’s West End. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23778397

    Palin’s performance, which has already been filmed, will be included in shows from 26 to 31 August.

    Fellow Monty Python Eric Idle usually plays God but this summer other stars have taken over the role to raise money for charity.

    It comes as it is announced the show will have its run extended until 8 February 2014.

    Other stars who have filmed the role of God include Barbara Windsor, Christopher Biggins, Hugh Bonneville, Larry Lamb and Bradley Walsh.

    Palin has chosen Action for Stammering Children as his nominated charity.

    Spamalot, which was written by Eric Idle, is on at the Playhouse Theatre.

    The show is based on the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail, about a group of medieval knights searching for the religious relic.

    But Spamalot also spoofs Broadway and various musicals, including those of Andrew Lloyd Webber.

    It premiered on Broadway in 2005 and went on to win three Tony Awards, before coming to London in 2006.

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