Christians for Gay Marriage Launch “Not All Like That” Campaign

0

They call themselves the NALT Christians, and Wednesday morning they quietly launched a video campaign with a controversial message: there is nothing anti-Biblical or inherently sinful about being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender.


NALT stands for “Not All Like That”—Christians who say “We are not all anti-gay”—and the NALT Christian Project aims to give LGBT-affirming Christians a platform to tell the world, and especially young gay people, that you can be a Christian and still support equal rights for gays. Modeled after Dan Savage’s It Gets Better Project, the NALT Project lets anyone upload a video to share why he or she is a Christian and supports gay rights.

The project began when Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst of Truth Wins Out, which works to counter anti-gay religious extremism, collaborated with John Shore, a California pastor with the Progressive Christian Alliance. Frustrated that many people think Christians who oppose homosexuality and gay marriage like Tony Perkins, Maggie Gallagher and Pat Robertson speak for all Bible followers, they reached out to Savage to see how they might create a platform like It Gets Better to help affirming Christians speak up. “People feel they have to make a choice between their faith and their sexuality, and for some people that is devastating,” Besen says. “Actually you don’t have to make a choice.”

Written By: Elizabeth Dias
continue to source article at swampland.time.com

NO COMMENTS

  1. Ah,that’s nice,you can be full of shit and still be gay. They shouldn’t have to throw a morsel in the direction of any religious ideology if they don’t want to,but,maybe,just maybe,Jesus was gay too,and maybe some priests who were so ashamed to have such sinful urges they were forced into a life of clergy ,and then look what happened…anyway,dinner time

    • In reply to #1 by PBrain:

      Ah,that’s nice,you can be full of shit and still be gay. They shouldn’t have to throw a morsel in the direction of any religious ideology if they don’t want to,but,maybe,just maybe,Jesus was gay too,and maybe some priests who were so ashamed to have such sinful urges they were forced into a life of…

      Now that’s an idea worth floating! All the signs are there when you start looking for them. Not married…hung around with his “mates”… Yep, I think I’d start to pursue that particular line if I were a gay Christian.

  2. …there is nothing anti-Biblical or inherently sinful about being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender

    Nothing anti-Biblical?? What about the whole thou-shalt-not-lay-with-another-man bit? Isn’t that specifically in the Bible?

    Just call it for what it is. Church attendence is dwindling rapidly and you want more people in the doors.

    • In reply to #3 by Sci_Guy_Bri:

      …there is nothing anti-Biblical or inherently sinful about being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender

      Nothing anti-Biblical?? What about the whole thou-shalt-not-lay-with-another-man bit? Isn’t that specifically in the Bible?

      It’s worse than that. The Bible can’t even keep a consistent position on homosexuality. Even if you want to be generous and ignore the blatant Argument from False Authority involved in looking in the Bible, it’s worse than useless to try and look to it for any kind of coherence on the issue because it can’t even agree with itself.

  3. Hypocrites lying for Jesus then.

    The Bible – both Old and New testaments – are quite clear about homosexuality. According to St Paul (Romans 1, NT) they “deserve death”.

    I respect Christians who stand up for what their Bible says rather more than I respect the ones who selectively edit their own Scriptures just to get a few more fare-paying people on board.

  4. Laudable. The zeitgeist is changing.

    The Christian mindset though, being what it is,will try and hog the credit for the change in attitude…Reminiscent of the issue of slavery…

  5. Oh come on you filthy Xians, don’t pretend some of you are decent people instead of the evil monsters we all know you are. Just show your true colors and kill some babies already!

  6. From the article:

    Shore however is hoping for volume. “Every video is a drop of water in the bucket to wash away this false Christianity that’s been out there,” he says. “It’s time for this project.”

    Let’s hope the bucket is smaller than the one Jaweh used to drown most of humanity in Noah’s Flood !

    Autumn approaches in the northern hemisphere. OK the cherries are over, but well versed Christian fruit pickers required. Applications to St Peter, c/o Pearly Gates, Heaven.

  7. All assistance of civil rights issues is helpful, but they vary in their degree of efficacy. Here’s my problem with this. So we have gay-accepting people who just happen to be Christians. Putting aside how they pull it off – maybe it’s even because they’re Christian, but I can’t see how that works (it’s besides the point anyway) – I don’t see why they need to bring their Christianity into their advocacy for gay marriage. It cuts down on the time they can spend making the pro-gay argument.

    But what they’re doing is even worse than that. They’re also spending time (a) countering an expectation that Christians are anti-gay, as if it’s Christians who have a tough time right now being tolerated (rather than gay people being the victims of other Christians), and (b) explaining why they’re Christian. Even if (b) was convincing – it won’t be; they’ve spent 2,000 years trying to come up with an argument that works – the problem is they’re fighting too many fronts at once. These people probably will be helpful to the cause of gay marriage, but they could do so much more if they just let Christianity take its medicine for once. Frankly, they smack of doing this out of religious self-interest more than anything else.

    If you want to make a convincing case for gay marriage, here it is: gay people are statistically unusual, but science can find no reason to say there’s anything wrong with them; and if two people are old enough to marry and love each other, then why stand in their way? Remember the “arguments” against interracial marriage, as if which pairings of people who can consent may wed can be restricted? Either we’re all drinking from the same water fountain or not.

    Notice something about these points? NALT members would follow that argument without any problem, even though it never mentions Christianity. So why add far from uncontroversial premises to your case? Indeed, since it’s fellow Christians they aim to convince, if there’s one point where common ground won’t be found it’s on how to use Christian material to deduce whether gay marriage should be allowed or not.

    • In reply to #10 by Jos Gibbons:

      Notice something about these points? NALT members would follow that argument without any problem, even though it never mentions Christianity. So why add far from uncontroversial premises to your case? Indeed, since it’s fellow Christians they aim to convince, if there’s one point where common ground won’t be found it’s on how to use Christian material to deduce whether gay marriage should be allowed or not.

      Agreed. If they’re serious about gay rights, then their religion should be utterly irrelevant. This movement is, at least in part, glorified religious PR.

  8. Its really mind blowing to read these comments. Here are some Christians doing what any rational person would think is a good thing, fighting intolerance and bigotry, but what do the people who claim to believe in science and critical thinking do? Why of course they find ways to mock, degrade, and belittle the people fighting bigotry because they are still doing it while remaining Christians. Its not any different than the reaction you would get from a Christian or Islamic fundamentalist web site to a story about atheists donating to charity. “Its just a way for the atheists to spread their anti-religious PR” The mindset of religious fundamentalists and atheist fundamentalists are just mirror images. Both sides put religion as the defining factor for the worth of a human being and both sides disgust me.

    • In reply to #12 by Red Dog:

      Its really mind blowing to read these comments. Here are some Christians doing what any rational person would think is a good thing, fighting intolerance and bigotry, but what do the people who claim to believe in science and critical thinking do? Why of course they find ways to mock, degrade, and b…

      Don’t be so melodramatic. I don’t think anyone here is objecting to their pro-gay sentiments at all, nor would they put anti-religious arguments ahead of homophobia if pressed, or at least I reckon so. As far as I’m concerned, anyone willing to support this cause is more than welcome to it, and there’s no a priori reason to think religious and non-religious people would be any different in their compassion and sincerity.

      However, they can fight the good fight without also raising a religious banner saying “See, Christianity is still good!” Just why should that be there? Strictly and ideally speaking, no one’s religious views should matter here; not even atheistic views should be highlighted as such. It’s a secular matter, and that’s precisely why shoving religion into it should be discouraged. If the videos were just pro-gay and not also included religious apologetics, I doubt most users here would’ve batted an eyelid.

      Thinking on your POV, I can see a case being made for combating a public anti-Christian stereotype in mainstream society, but this assumes one actually exists and is harmful enough to warrant a campaign. Even granting this, it’s a pointless message for two reasons: one, the mainstream ARE most likely Christian or pro-Christian (or at least not anti-Christian), making this a case of preaching to the choir; and two, Christian-based prejudice is a huge part of the problem to begin with because the people who take Christian views the most seriously are at the root of the problem. By contrast, atheism genuinely has a much less positive social image that one could argue needs this sort of consciousness-raising, and atheism can’t be any part of the problem of homophobia by its very nature, hence it’s asymmetrical.

      Look, I get where you’re coming from, I really do. There’s no future or justification for sniping at people who just happen to identify with any particular ideas, as opposed to criticizing or even ridiculing the ideas themselves. Good and bad people come from all kinds of religious and non-religious backgrounds, and there’s no black and white; real people are too complex to pigeonhole. The people behind this campaign are most likely no less decent than anyone else supporting LGBT. But personally, I think this particular approach is very misguided.

    • In reply to #12 by Red Dog:

      they find ways to mock, degrade, and belittle the people fighting bigotry because they are still doing it while remaining Christians

      Whose argument do you think you are accurately representing, in posts 1-11? The problem people have here isn’t that the Christians defending gay people are still Christian. No-one in this article has said, “what’s your evidence for Jesus as Lord, then?” or anything like that. We’ve pointed out dishonesty and hypocrisy, predicted inefficacy in dealing with homophobic coreligionists for given reasons, and explained why this is not only far from the best approach to the issue, but a peculiar framing of an approach to try to serve Christianity at least as much as civil rights. Because remember, NALT isn’t just Christians who happen to defend gay marriage; it’s Christians who are messing up the effort in some faith-driven ways.

      Also, “the people fighting bigotry” makes it sound like they make up the main numbers. Unfortunately, Christians don’t pull their weight here at all.

      • If you bring to the attention of bible believing Christians the passages seeming to condone slavery they will often reply that Christians were in the forefront of the fight to abolish slavery. What’s the betting that in a few decades time Christians will be claiming their critical contribution to equality for gays (and women of course).

        In reply to #19 by Jos Gibbons:

        In reply to #12 by Red Dog:

        they find ways to mock, degrade, and belittle the people fighting bigotry because they are still doing it while remaining Christians

        Whose argument do you think you are accurately representing, in posts 1-11? The problem people have here isn’t that the Christians defend…

  9. Red Dog :

    Its really mind blowing to read these comments. Here are some Christians doing what any rational person would think is a good thing, fighting intolerance and bigotry, but what do the people who claim to believe in science and critical thinking do? Why of course they find ways to mock, degrade, and belittle the people fighting bigotry because they are still doing it while remaining Christians

    Sorry to blow your mind Red Dog, but your curate’s egg argument remains unconvincing to me. Are some Christians more “progressive” than others ? Is that what you are saying ? To me all religious beliefs are completely absurd. And fair game !

    • In reply to #13 by Mr DArcy:
      Sorry to blow your mind Red Dog, but your curate’s egg argument remains unconvincing to me. Are some Christians more “progressive”
      than others ? Is that what you are saying ?

      Why, of course not, everyone knows all Christians come out of the Christian-making factory exactly the same and can’t be anything other than lying, manipulative, cheating haters of humanity. The notion that some, or even a few, Christians, are actually decent people genuinely wanting to support gay rights, and basically choose to treat the condemning Bible passages as relics of their time which are now obsolete, is absurd. Crazy people are crazy people are crazy people. We can’t have us thinking that some of them can actually be decent and still remain religious; this is bad for troops’ morale. Next thing you know we won’t be jumping on their throats each time they post “god bless” in facebook. We don’t know them, we don’t wanna know them; they’re the enemy.

      Now, if you’ll excuse me, I think I hear my mother coming home from church; I gotta go call her names for going to such places, that insufferable wench. Everyone’s gotta do their part for the cause. Brb.

      • But at least they are not worse than rapists.

        In reply to #14 by JoxerTheMighty:

        In reply to #13 by Mr DArcy:
        Sorry to blow your mind Red Dog, but your curate’s egg argument remains unconvincing to me. Are some Christians more “progressive”
        than others ? Is that what you are saying ?

        Why, of course not, everyone knows all Christians come out of the Christian-making factory exac…

  10. But at least they are not worse than rapists.

    You’re referring to this, I suppose?

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-10/religion-atheism/51777612/1

    Come on.

    Seriously?

    You’re gonna take the results of one survey which presented a fictional situation asking if the teacher who “stole the wallet” was more likely to be “atheist teacher”, “rapist teacher” or “christian teacher”, and conclude that most Christians think atheists are “just as bad”, or even worse, as rapists? The question barely makes any sense, and it’s obvious it was setup in order to see how subjects would rate religious groups in the…”rapist scale”.

    I interact with Christians every day, who know I am an atheist, and I sure don’t get treated with the same distrust a rapist would.

    In fact, I wonder if our whole “disagreement” on this stems from the fact that some atheists have religious persons among their family, friends and loved ones, and no, they don’t treat them as a friend that happens to have a mental illness, but as a choice that, while factually wrong, is fine if the person chooses to take the good parts out of the religion and leave the “bad” ones out.

    While other atheists happened to be born in atheist families and either didn’t happen to have close relationships with religious people, or were distanced from them over time(and yes, many times it would be the religious that distanced from them, but all places are not the same and Europe isn’t Texas). So they don’t really care about the whole matter as their lives don’t interact with each other, they can be as aggressive as they like and not “give an inch” to the bastards, so to speak.

  11. Joxer the Mighty in reply to me:

    Why, of course not, everyone knows all Christians come out of the Christian-making factory exactly the same and can’t be anything other than lying, manipulative, cheating haters of humanity. The notion that some, or even a few, Christians, are actually decent people genuinely wanting to support gay rights, and basically choose to treat the condemning Bible passages as relics of their time which are now obsolete, is absurd. Crazy people are crazy people are crazy people. We can’t have us thinking that some of them can actually be decent and still remain religious; this is bad for troops’ morale. Next thing you know we won’t be jumping on their throats each time they post “god bless” in facebook. We don’t know them, we don’t wanna know them; they’re the enemy.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I think I hear my mother coming home from church; I gotta go call her names for going to such places, that insufferable wench. Everyone’s gotta do their part for the cause. Brb.

    Now did I say that? NO !

    Please enjoy your ” Some Christians are more progressive than others” fantasy. To me, they are all reactionary. Whatever they feel about current events has nothing to do with their Christianity.Their minds are devoted to a man who walked on water, was born of a virgin, came back from the dead and floated off to heaven to join himself on his own right hand side. No not all Christians belong to the Westboro Baptist Church, and most don’t, but all of them are full of fantasies about the supernatural, – and of course what it allows and what it frowns upon.

  12. This is progress all too slow but progress. Like not stoning your disobedient children to death, churches if they are too remain, will have to keep ignoring more and more of bible until eventually you’ll be able to print it in a small large text pamphlet Gideons edition 2200 perhaps, of course at the current rate we’ll all be getting about in flying cars and nematic tubes and such like…

  13. If you were sincere, you would have said this 20 years ago, not waiting until the polls said it was a safe majority view. This is just expedience. This is just fishing for LGBT members.

    If you were sincere you would do something formal to nullify those verses in the bible used to justify murder, beating and discrimination of gays.

  14. This is about fundamentally decent people realising that their religion doesn’t fit with their fundamental decency but being unable to abandon it so, not for the first time in history, adapting it instead.

    • In reply to #26 by progressive:

      I welcome this initiative. It shows some Christians are prepared to ignore what their book says in order to be decent people.
      Thats a good thing, it cuts into their belief.

      That’s not what the article said. The NALT Christians’ message is that “there is nothing anti-biblical or inherently sinful about being gay”. They’re not ignoring what their book says, they’re claiming that there’s nothing in the book that condemns being gay. Which is untrue. What they said doesn’t cut into their belief, it perpetuates it through self-delusion and disinformation about what their belief truly entails.

      Of all people, LGBT’s ought to be the very last people who would want to keep on adhering to a belief system which looks upon them as abominations. IMO, the only way the church can reel them in is to make up sweet lies about what the bible says. And that’s the part that bugs me. It’s disingenuous.

      • Doesn’t matter what they say, what matters is what their manual says. To me its like they are prepared to throw out some dirty bathwater to save the baby Jesus. Only the more bathwater they throw out the clearer it becomes that its bathwater all the way down.

        My objection to religion is towards a bunch of conservative farts telling everyone what to do. That is most objectionable, second to that is the truth/falsehood of the belief.

        I don’t think religion will go away easily. If they can be less obnoxious about it then that helps.
        In reply to #28 by NearlyNakedApe:

        In reply to #26 by progressive:

        I welcome this initiative. It shows some Christians are prepared to ignore what their book says in order to be decent people.
        Thats a good thing, it cuts into their belief.

        That’s not what the article said. The NALT Christians’ message is that “there is nothing ant…

  15. I have to laugh at the suggestion that the Christians were in the forefront of the abolition of slavery ! Yes some like Willberforce, were, but there were many other Christians who saw Biblical justification for the continuance of slavery. The fact that Willberforce is hardly heard of in the West Indies, is because, the slaves had taken some actions for their own emancipation and rebelled, many times. The fact is that slavery died out in the British Empire, not because of moral repugnance about oppressing others, but because it became uneconomic. It was cheaper to have wage slaves, who had to look after themselves, in the sugar plantations.

    Just look at South Africa till relatively recently, and its apartheid system. The Protestant Christians in the ruling class found no difficulty in finding Biblical justification for that most foul system.

Leave a Reply