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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 | Reason : Commentary | print version Print | Comments

Document Atheists with Attitude: Why do they hate Him?

by Anthony Gottlieb, NewYorker.com

Thanks to Florian Widder for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/05/21/070521crbo_books_gottlieb?currentPage=all
In the second century A.D., it was the Christians who were denounced as
Great portents and disasters turn some minds to God and others away from him. When an unusually bright and long-tailed comet was tracked through the sky in the last two months of 1680, posters and sermons called on Christians to repent. A hen in Rome seemed to confirm that the Day of Judgment was near. On December 2nd, it made an extraordinarily loud cackle and produced an exceptionally large egg, on which could be seen a likeness of the comet, or so it was said. This added to the religious panic. But the comet also sparked a small triumph for rationalism. In the next few years, as Armageddon somehow failed to arrive, a stream of pamphlets across Europe and America argued that heavenly displays were purely natural phenomena. The skeptics won the day. From the eighteenth century onward, no respectable intellectual saw comets as direct messages from God—though there were still some fears that one might eventually hit the earth.

The felling of the World Trade Center in New York, on September 11, 2001, brought its share of religion. Two populist preachers, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, called it divine punishment (though both quickly withdrew their remarks), and not only the bereaved prayed for help. But September 11th and its aftershocks in Bali, Madrid, London, and elsewhere are more notable for causing an outbreak of militant atheism, at least on bookshelves. The terrorist attacks were carried out in the name of Islam, and they have been taken, by a string of best-selling books, to illustrate the fatal dangers of all religious faith.

The first of these books was "The End of Faith," by Sam Harris, which was published in 2004 and was on the Times paperback best-seller list for thirty-three weeks. Then came "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon," by Daniel Dennett, a philosopher at Tufts University, who has written popular books on the science of consciousness and on Darwin. Next was "The God Delusion," by Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and Britain's preëminent science writer. Harris joined battle again last year with "Letter to a Christian Nation," which renewed his attack on Christianity in particular. And now there is "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything" (Twelve; $24.99), by Christopher Hitchens, which is both the most articulate and the angriest of the lot. Hitchens is a British-born writer who lives in Washington, D.C., and is a columnist for Vanity Fair and Slate. He thrives at the lectern, where his powers of rhetoric and recall enable him to entertain an audience, go too far, and almost get away with it. These gifts are amply reflected in "God Is Not Great."

Hitchens is nothing if not provocative. Creationists are "yokels," Pascal's theology is "not far short of sordid," the reasoning of the Christian writer C. S. Lewis is "so pathetic as to defy description," Calvin was a "sadist and torturer and killer," Buddhist sayings are "almost too easy to parody," most Eastern spiritual discourse is "not even wrong," Islam is "a rather obvious and ill-arranged set of plagiarisms," Hanukkah is a "vapid and annoying holiday," and the psalmist King David was an "unscrupulous bandit."
'You can say anything you want, or you can say nothing, but most people say 'Wheeeeee!!!''
It's possible to wonder, indeed, where plain speaking ends and misanthropy begins: Hitchens says that the earth sometimes seems to him to be "a prison colony and lunatic asylum that is employed as a dumping ground by far-off and superior civilizations." He certainly likes to adopt the tone of a bemused Martian envoy hammering out a report for headquarters. (We hear of "a showbiz woman bizarrely known as Madonna.") In a curious rhetorical tic, Hitchens regularly refers to people whom he wishes to ridicule by their zoological class. Thus the followers of Muhammad are "mammals," as is the prophet himself, and so are the seventeenth-century false messiah Sabbatai Zevi and St. Francis of Assisi; Japan's wartime Emperor Hirohito is a "ridiculously overrated mammal," and Kim Il Sung, the father of North Korea's current dictator, is a "ludicrous mammal." Hitchens is trying to say that these people are mere fallible mortals; but his way of saying it makes him come across as rather an odd fish.

He is also a fallible one. After rightly railing against female genital mutilation in Africa, which is an indigenous cultural practice with no very firm ties to any particular religion, Hitchens lunges at male circumcision. He claims that it is a medically dangerous procedure that has made countless lives miserable. This will come as news to the Jewish community, where male circumcision is universal, and where doctors, hypochondria, and overprotective mothers are not exactly unknown. Jews, Muslims, and others among the nearly one-third of the world's male population who have been circumcised may be reassured by the World Health Organization's recent announcement that it recommends male circumcision as a means of preventing the spread of AIDS.

Hitchens is on firmer ground as he traipses around the world on a tour of sectarian conflicts. He recounts how, a week before September 11th, a hypothetical question was put to him by Dennis Prager, an American talk-show host. Hitchens was asked to imagine himself in a foreign city at dusk, with a large group of men coming toward him. Would he feel safer, or less safe, if he were to learn that they were coming from a prayer meeting? With justified relish, the widely travelled Hitchens responds that he has had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem, and Baghdad, and that, in each case, the answer would be a resounding "less safe." He relates what he has seen or knows of warring factions of Protestants and Catholics in Ulster; Christians and Muslims in Beirut and in Bethlehem; Hindus and Muslims in Bombay; Roman Catholic Croatians, Orthodox Serbians, and Muslims in the former Yugoslavia; and Shiites, Sunnis, and Christians in Baghdad. In these cases and others, he argues, religion has exacerbated ethnic conflicts. As he puts it, "religion has been an enormous multiplier of tribal suspicion and hatred."

That's more plausible than what Sam Harris has to say on the subject. He maintains that religious belief not only aggravates such conflicts but is "the explicit cause" of them. He believes this even of Northern Ireland, where the Troubles between pro-British Unionists and pro-Irish Republicans began around 1610, when Britain confiscated Irish land and settled English and Scottish planters on it. As far as Harris is concerned, Islam brought down the Twin Towers, thanks in no small part to the incendiary language of the Koran; Middle East politics, history, and economics are irrelevant sideshows. This thesis suffers from a problem of timing: if he is right, why did Al Qaeda not arise, say, three hundred years ago, when the Koran said exactly what it says now?

One practical problem for antireligious writers is the diversity of religious views. However carefully a skeptic frames his attacks, he will be told that what people in fact believe is something different. For example, when Terry Eagleton, a British critic who has been a professor of English at Oxford, lambasted Dawkins's "The God Delusion" in the London Review of Books, he wrote that "card-carrying rationalists" like Dawkins "invariably come up with vulgar caricatures of religious faith that would make a first-year theology student wince." That is unfair, because millions of the faithful around the world believe things that would make a first-year theology student wince. A large survey in 2001 found that more than half of American Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians believed that Jesus sinned—thus rejecting a central dogma of their own churches.

So how is a would-be iconoclast supposed to tell exactly what the faithful believe? Interpreting the nature and prevalence of religious opinions is tricky, particularly if you depend on polls. Respondents can be lacking in seriousness, unsure what they believe, and evasive. Spiritual values and practices are what pollsters call "motherhood" issues: everybody knows that he is supposed to be in favor of them. Thus sociologists estimate that maybe only half of the Americans who say that they regularly attend church actually do so. The World Values Survey Association, an international network of social scientists, conducts research in eighty countries, and not long ago asked a large sample of the earth's population to say which of four alternatives came closest to their own beliefs: a personal God (forty-two per cent chose this), a spirit or life force (thirty-four per cent), neither of these (ten per cent), don't know (fourteen per cent). Depending on what the respondents understood by a "spirit or life force," belief in God may be far less widespread than simple yes/no polls suggest.

In some religious research, it is not necessarily the respondents who are credulous. Harris has made much of a survey that suggests that forty-four per cent of Americans believe that Jesus will return to judge mankind within the next fifty years. But, in 1998, a fifth of non-Christians in America told a poll for Newsweek that they, too, expected Jesus to return. What does Harris make of that? Any excuse for a party, perhaps. He also worries about a poll that said that nearly three-quarters of Americans believe in angels—by which, to judge from blogs and online forums on the subject, some of them may have meant streaks of luck, or their own delightful infants.

The Bible is a motherhood issue, too. Harris takes at face value a Gallup poll suggesting that eighty-three per cent of Americans regard it as the Word of God, and he, like Dawkins and Hitchens, uses up plenty of ink establishing the wickedness of many tales in the Old Testament. Critics of the Bible should find consolation in the fact that many people do not have a clue what is in it. Surveys by the Barna Research Group, a Christian organization, have found that most Christians don't know who preached the Sermon on the Mount.

The tangled diversity of faith is, in the event, no obstacle for Hitchens. He knows exactly which varieties of religion need attacking; namely, the whole lot. And if he has left anyone out he would probably like to hear about it so that he can rectify the omission. From the perspective of the new atheists, religion is all one entity; those who would apologize for any of its forms—Harris and Dawkins, in particular, insist on this point—are helping to sustain the whole. But, though the vague belief in a "life force" may be misguided, it's hard to make the case that it's dangerous. And there's a dreamy incoherence in their conviction that moderate forms of religion somehow enable fundamentalist zeal and violence to survive. Are we really going to tame the fervor of an extremist imam's mosque in Waziristan by weakening the plush-toy creed of a nondenominational church in Chappaqua? If there were no religion, it's true, neither house of worship would exist. So perhaps we are just being asked to sway along with John Lennon's "Imagine." ("Imagine there's no countries /It isn't hard to do /Nothing to kill or die for /And no religion too.")

When Hitchens weighs the pros and cons of religion in the recent past, the evidence he provides is sometimes lopsided. He discusses the role of the Dutch Reformed Church in maintaining apartheid in South Africa, but does not mention the role of the Anglican Church in ending it. He attacks some in the Catholic Church, especially Pope Pius XII, for their appeasement of Nazism, but says little about the opposition to Nazism that came from religious communities and institutions. In "Humanity: A Moral History of the Twentieth Century," Jonathan Glover, who is the director of the Center of Medical Law and Ethics at Kings College London, documents such opposition, and writes, "It is striking how many protests against and acts of resistance to atrocity have . . . come from principled religious commitment." The loss of such commitment, Glover suggests, should be of concern even to nonbelievers. Still, Hitchens succeeds in compiling a list of evils that the faithful, too, should find sobering. Now that so much charitable work is carried out by secular bodies, religious ones have to work harder to keep the moral high ground. For the Catholic Church in particular—with its opposition to contraception, including the distribution of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS, and the covering up of child abuse by priests—the ledger is not looking good.

Bertrand Russell, who had a prodigious knowledge of history and a crisp wit, claimed in 1930 that he could think of only two useful contributions that religion had made to civilization. It had helped fix the calendar, and it had made Egyptian priests observe eclipses carefully enough to predict them. He could at least have added Bach's St. Matthew Passion and more than a few paintings; but perhaps the legacy of religion is too large a conundrum to be argued either way. The history of the West has been so closely interwoven with the history of religious institutions and ideas that it is hard to be confident about what life would have been like without them. One of Kingsley Amis's lesser-known novels, "The Alteration," tried to envisage an alternative course for modern history in which the Reformation never happened, science is a dirty word, and in 1976 most of the planet is ruled by a Machiavellian Pope from Yorkshire. In this world, Jean-Paul Sartre is a Jesuit and the central mosaic in Britain's main cathedral is by David Hockney. That piece of fancy is dizzying enough on its own. But imagine attempting such a thought experiment in the contrary fashion, and rolling it back several thousand years to reveal a world with no churches, mosques, or temples. The idea that people would have been nicer to one another if they had never got religion, as Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris seem to think, is a strange position for an atheist to take. For if man is wicked enough to have invented religion for himself he is surely wicked enough to have found alternative ways of making mischief.

In the early days of the Christian era, nobody was fantasizing about a world with no religion, but there were certainly those who liked to imagine a world with no Christians. The first surviving example of anti-Christian polemic is strikingly similar in tone to that of some of today's militant atheists. In the second century, it was Christians who were called "atheists," because they failed to worship the accepted gods. "On the True Doctrine: A Discourse Against the Christians" was written in 178 A.D. by Celsus, an eclectic follower of Plato. The Christian deity, Celsus proclaimed, is a contradictory invention. He "keeps his purposes to himself for ages, and watches with indifference as wickedness triumphs over good," and only after a long time decides to intervene and send his son: "Did he not care before?" Moses is said to be "stupid"; his books, and those of the prophets, are "garbage." Christians have "concocted an absolutely offensive doctrine of everlasting punishment." Their injunction to turn the other cheek was put much better by Socrates. And their talk of a Last Judgment is "complete nonsense."

There's not much more where that came from, because within a couple of hundred years Christians became the ones to decide who counted as an atheist and was to be punished accordingly. Pagan anti-Christian writings were destroyed wherever possible. In truth, from the start of the Christian era until the eighteenth century, there were probably very few people in the West who thought that there was no God of any sort. Those thinkers who had serious doubts about the traditional conception of God—of whom there were many in the seventeenth century—substituted another sort of deity, usually a more distant or less personalized one.

Even Voltaire, one of the fiercest critics of superstition, Christianity, and the Church's abuse of power, was a man of deep religious feeling. His God, though, was beyond human understanding and had no concern for man. (Voltaire's satirical tale "Candide," which attacks the idea that all is for the best in a world closely watched over by a benevolent God, was partly inspired by a huge earthquake in Lisbon, which struck while the faithful were at Mass on All Saints' Day in 1755 and killed perhaps thirty thousand people.)

Voltaire, like many others before and after him, was awed by the order and the beauty of the universe, which he thought pointed to a supreme designer, just as a watch points to a watchmaker. In 1779, a year after Voltaire died, that idea was attacked by David Hume, a cheerful Scottish historian and philosopher, whose way of undermining religion was as arresting for its strategy as it was for its detail. Hume couldn't have been more different from today's militant atheists.

In his "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion," which was published posthumously, and reports imaginary discussions among three men, Hume prized apart the supposed analogy between the natural world and a designed artifact. Even if the analogy were apt, he pointed out, the most one could infer from it would be a superior craftsman, not an omnipotent and perfect deity. And, he argued, if it is necessary to ask who made the world it must also be necessary to ask who, or what, made that maker. In other words, God is merely the answer that you get if you do not ask enough questions. From the accounts of his friends, his letters, and some posthumous essays, it is clear that Hume had no trace of religion, did not believe in an afterlife, and was particularly disdainful of Christianity. He had a horror of zealotry. Yet his many writings on religion have a genial and even superficially pious tone. He wanted to convince his religious readers, and recognized that only gentle and reassuring persuasion would work. In a telling passage in the "Dialogues," Hume has one of his characters remark that a person who openly proclaimed atheism, being guilty of "indiscretion and imprudence," would not be very formidable.

Hume sprinkled his gunpowder through the pages of the "Dialogues" and left the book primed so that its arguments would, with luck, ignite in his readers' own minds. And he always offered a way out. In "The Natural History of Religion," he undermined the idea that there are moral reasons to be religious, but made it sound as if it were still all right to believe in proofs of God's existence. In an essay about miracles, he undermined the idea that it is ever rational to accept an apparent revelation from God, but made it sound as if it were still all right to have faith. And in the "Dialogues" he undermined proofs of God's existence, but made it sound as if it were all right to believe on the basis of revelation. As the Cambridge philosopher Edward Craig has put it, Hume never tried to topple all the supporting pillars of religion at once.

In Paris, meanwhile, a number of thinkers began to profess atheism openly. They were the first influential group to do so, and included Denis Diderot, the co-editor of the Enlightenment's great Encyclopédie, and Baron D'Holbach, who hosted a salon of freethinkers. Hume visited them, and made several friends there; they presented him with a large gold medal. But the philosophes were too dogmatic for Hume's taste. To Hume's like-minded friend the historian Edward Gibbon, they suffered from "intolerant zeal." Still, they represented a historical vanguard: explicit attacks on religion as a whole poured forth within the next hundred years.

Since all the arguments against belief have been widely publicized for a long time, today's militant atheists must sometimes wonder why religion persists. Hitchens says that it is born of fear and probably ineradicable. Harris holds that there are genuine spiritual experiences; having kicked sand in the faces of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, he dives headlong into the surf of Eastern spirituality, encouraging readers to try Buddhist techniques of meditation instead of dangerous creeds. Dawkins devotes a chapter, and Dennett most of his book, to evolutionary accounts of how religion may have arisen and how its ideas spread. It's thin stuff, and Dennett stresses that these are early days for a biological account of religion. It may, however, be too late for one. If a propensity toward religious belief is "hard-wired" in the brain, as it is sometimes said to be, the wiring has evidently become frayed. This is especially true in rich countries, nearly all of which—Ireland and America are exceptions—have relatively high rates of unbelief.

After making allowances for countries that have, or recently have had, an officially imposed atheist ideology, in which there might be some social pressure to deny belief in God, one can venture conservative estimates of the number of unbelievers in the world today. Reviewing a large number of studies among some fifty countries, Phil Zuckerman, a sociologist at Pitzer College, in Claremont, California, puts the figure at between five hundred million and seven hundred and fifty million. This excludes such highly populated places as Brazil, Iran, Indonesia, and Nigeria, for which information is lacking or patchy. Even the low estimate of five hundred million would make unbelief the fourth-largest persuasion in the world, after Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. It is also by far the youngest, with no significant presence in the West before the eighteenth century. Who can say what the landscape will look like once unbelief has enjoyed a past as long as Islam's—let alone as long as Christianity's? God is assuredly not on the side of the unbelievers, but history may yet be. ♦

Art: JONATHAN BOROFSKY, "FOUR GODS" (1994)

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1. Comment #41397 by bitbutter on May 16, 2007 at 4:46 am

 avatar
That's more plausible than what Sam Harris has to say on the subject. He maintains that religious belief not only aggravates such conflicts but is "the explicit cause" of them.


Its perfectly plausible that religion is the explicit cause of certain conflicts.

There are plenty of examples of violence that would not have been possible without the element of religious thinking.

If we accept an inevitable background of bubbling tribalistic tendency in human society it's sensible to identify religion (when it channels that tendency towards violence by demonising the out-group, providing moral justification for aggression towards them and even promising supernatural rewards for attacking them) as an 'explicit cause' of conflicts.

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2. Comment #41398 by Philip1978 on May 16, 2007 at 4:50 am

 avatarInteresting article but I am really not impressed by the continual use of the word "Militant Atheist", its pathetic.
As Professor Dawkins said in his letter to the Guardian, he is passionate about what he does but he is not a fundamentalist because that would imply he would accept no other evidence other than his own.

Every time an article uses these words it simply staggers me, I criticise religion for its encouragement of violence and death to others in its most extreme cases. But the way these articles imply it Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins and Dennett are all after the blood of the religious and are inciting others to do the same!

I urge journalists to use the word passionate, militant suggests I could be encouraged go to war for these people and that is the furthest thing on my mind!

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3. Comment #41406 by bitbutter on May 16, 2007 at 5:01 am

 avatar@philip, i'm 90% sure that Dawkins advocated 'Militant atheism' himself a while back. It was in a lecture he gave to an academic audience a few years ago (he was wearing a beige suit). Sorry i don't have the link to hand.

Militant in this context doesn't bother me ("Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant political activist."). but 'extremist' and 'fundamentalist' certainly do.

As does the lie that atheists hate god/jesus ("Why do they hate Him?") what an absurd idea.

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4. Comment #41407 by Pi Guy on May 16, 2007 at 5:01 am

One practical problem for antireligious writers is the diversity of religious views.


In other words, there are many ways in which people come to believe ridiculously improbable things.

...and only after a long time decides to intervene and send his son: "Did he not care before?"


I've wondered about that, too.

Harris has made much of a survey that suggests that forty-four per cent of Americans believe that Jesus will return to judge mankind within the next fifty years. But, in 1998, a fifth of non-Christians in America told a poll for Newsweek that they, too, expected Jesus to return. What does Harris make of that?


I don't know about Harris, but I take it to mean that the chances of me bumping into a genuine whack-job on a daily basis is at least 1 in 5. That's way too may.

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5. Comment #41413 by bitbutter on May 16, 2007 at 5:12 am

 avatar
Are we really going to tame the fervor of an extremist imam's mosque in Waziristan by weakening the plush-toy creed of a nondenominational church in Chappaqua?


No, and you've missed the point. We have no footing from which to challenge religious fundamentalism until we've dismantled the unspoken law that any belief, as long as it's religious, is automatically worthy of respect.

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6. Comment #41419 by CJ22 on May 16, 2007 at 5:24 am

 avatarWith a few exceptions of dodgy logic and poor historical knowledge, this article is well written in my mind.

Unlike bitbutter, I do tend to think the world would NOT be a more peaceful place without religion. Maybe slightly. But I think humans would find other causes to rally around, and be equally as fervant about the rightness of their cause and the neccesity of doing others in who don't subscribe. When you think about it, politics has a lot in common with religion - it produces zealots and relies on a lot of blind faith in contradiction to the evidence (e.g. the death penalty is an effective deterrant against crime). Religion is just a vehicle for these tendendies.

That's not an argument for keeping it, of course, even putting aside whether it's 'right' or not - I don't think anything would be WORSE without religion.

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7. Comment #41432 by jonecc on May 16, 2007 at 5:51 am

Like Hitchens and Harris, my ancestors were probably involved in the wars of the English Revolution. Maybe they fought for the divine right of kings, maybe they supported the autonomy of Parliament. They may have wanted freedom of trade, or they may have been more concerned about taxes. Statistically, it's likely that some of them fought on each side.

Just for the sake of argument, let's pretend Hitchens' ancestors all fought on one side, and mine all fought on the other. It doesn't matter. We'll never know, and wouldn't much care if we did.

But in the north of Ireland, everyone knows. This is because the Catholics were on one side, and the Protestants on the other. The victorious Protestants passed down their triumphalist metaphysics through Lodges and business organisation, while defeated Catholics put their children in separate schools, and taught them never to forget.

In practice, everyone in northern Ireland probably has ancestors on both sides as well, but their metaphysical allegiances oblige them to pretend history is less complex than it actually is.

These days, the antagonism between the two sides has more to do with jobs, housing or methods of policing than with religion. The point is, though, because religion passes old labels down the generations it does have a way of burdening today's social divisions with the ideological baggage of yesterday's.

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8. Comment #41459 by Philip1978 on May 16, 2007 at 6:39 am

 avatarbitbutter, sorry, you are completely right there, he did say it at the TED conference and there is a link somewhere in the previous articles.

I agree it does make sense in the context to which you are referring to, but I guess I am still uncomfortable with the way journalists use the wrong context of it to make people like Professor Dawkins look like an extremist or fundamentalist by insinuating it.

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9. Comment #41463 by bitbutter on May 16, 2007 at 6:43 am

 avatar@CJ22
Unlike bitbutter, I do tend to think the world would NOT be a more peaceful place without religion. Maybe slightly. But I think humans would find other causes to rally around, and be equally as fervant about the rightness of their cause and the neccesity of doing others in who don't subscribe.

Ive spoken with a few people who think this too. They think that - like the amount of energy in the universe - the amount of violence in the world is a constant, and if you remove one reason for fighting then another one will popup to take it's place, like wack-a-mole.

I'm not convinced. Articles like Pinker's 'a history of violence' point out that the amount of violence in the world does change. We live in an increasingly peaceful world. The amount of violence isn't a constant.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html

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10. Comment #41465 by Dower on May 16, 2007 at 6:46 am

Many Christians expect Jesus Christ to return to earth in the immediate future, and usher in an end of the world as we know it. This belief has been common since the founding of Christianity in the 1st century CE. As the second millennium CE came to a close, belief was particularly high:
bullet An Associated Press survey in 1997 revealed that 24% of American adults expected to be still alive when Jesus returns. Many of these probably believe that they would be raptured (elevated from the earth to be with Jesus) and thus will never experience death.

A poll conducted for Newsweek magazine in 1999-JUN asked American adults whether they believed that Jesus would return during the next millennium -- i.e. between years 2001 and 3000 CE. Results were:

All persons surveyed : 52%
Evangelical Protestants: 71%
Non-Evangelical Protestants: 48%
Roman Catholics: 47%
Non-Christians: 20%



This may be the source of Harris' research.

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11. Comment #41482 by Stuart Paul Wood on May 16, 2007 at 7:14 am

bitbutter: "I'm not convinced. Articles like Pinker's 'a history of violence' point out that the amount of violence in the world does change. We live in an increasingly peaceful world. The amount of violence isn't a constant."

I agree. The amount of sexism, racism, homophobia OR religiosity aren't constants either. Society can be changed for the better. To say that it can't is a cop out, symptomatic of gross laziness and a lack of imagination.

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12. Comment #41515 by CJ22 on May 16, 2007 at 8:18 am

 avatarYes but you might say that if we all believed the same thing. If this were a benign moderate religion, then I could well imagine the world becoming more peaceful (for about 5 minutes until there was a split on some minor point of dogma!). Of course if it were anything remotely fundemental, then you'd get Afghanistan writ large. I'm just guessing anyway - it'd be interesting for somebody to do a socialogical study on.

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13. Comment #41537 by konquererz on May 16, 2007 at 8:58 am

 avatarIsn't it a little difficult to hate what you don't believe exists? Thats like saying that you hate the man in the moon, or the celestial teapot, or zeus. Not believing is not the same as hating, hating means you believe that the object of hate actually exists. However, I do so destest much of religion.

But its not a hate, any more than I hate bad political ideas. I may not like them, but not hate them. I don't like President Bush, but I don't hate him. It takes allot to bring the emotion of hate into the picture. But firmly believing that someone is wrong and indeed harming others, don't you have a moral obligation to say something?

And whats frustrating about this article is the complete dismisal with no arguement of most of the atheists arguements. He doesn't bother to really argue any of the arguement but basically says that he either doesn't like the arguement, doesn't agree with it, or doesn't understand it and so he dismisses it like its a fools errand. What an arrogant prick. The article isn't good, its a proof of what kind of person that reason has to over come, the kind that simply ignores logical because he doesn't like it.

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14. Comment #41542 by Nebularry on May 16, 2007 at 9:25 am

I found this article to be interesting and, frankly, enlightening. (I'll have to read it again to digest it all.) Nevertheless, it seems to me that the bottom line is that religion of whatever stripe demands some degree of magical-thinking. To have faith in any sort of God or metaphysical notions requires magical-thinking. Insofar as any religion has any magical-thinking, to that degree it is irrational. And the more irrational (fundamentalist Christians, radical Islamists) the more dangerous a religion becomes.

Yes, there are those whose religion is more philosophy than magical-thinking, more logic than mysticism and so much to their credit. However, it is the radicals who fly airplanes into buildings, blow up abortion clinics and picket funerals in order to bash gays. It is the radicals who get all the attention. If the reasonable and rational theists want to do themselves a favor, let them get rid of the wackos!

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15. Comment #41603 by jeepyjay on May 16, 2007 at 11:41 am

 avatarWriters are often not responsible for the headings given to their articles in newspapers; they may reveal the subconscious of the subeditor.

I bought Anthony Gottlieb's "The Dream of Reason" subtitled "A History of Philosophy from the Greeks to the Renaissance" which was published in 2000. It's a pretty good survey, if a bit lightweight compared to, say, Bertrand Russell.

Unfortunately it stops suddenly at Descartes. Does anyone know if he has given up on the idea of a Volume Two, or is he stil working on it? I'd like to get up to date on more recent philosophers! Post-Russell.

His essay here at least shows some independent thinking.

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16. Comment #41716 by Winckle on May 16, 2007 at 4:40 pm

I do not hate God.

It is irrational to hate a fictional character.

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17. Comment #41782 by BicycleRepairMan on May 17, 2007 at 1:44 am

 avatarDawkins used the term "militant atheism" at TEDTalks, if not exactly tongue-in-cheek it was used to get a laugh from the crowd, and to express the point of his talk, which was not to be "so damn tolerant" of religion, referring to 9/11.

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18. Comment #42208 by freeurmind on May 17, 2007 at 11:09 pm

"World Health Organization's recent announcement that it recommends male circumcision as a means of preventing the spread of AIDS."
..what?Let's see,first circumcision was said to prevent young boys from masturbating,since that didn't work the new idea that followed was that it prevents infections of the urinary tract,that was never proved to be true ,now we are being told that it could prevent AIDS.Aren't we forgetting the basic means of disease prevention here,condoms,good personal higiene and so on,and of course since the prevalence of the disease is higher in undeveloped parts of the world shouldn't we start getting to the bottom of the problem and not begin in the middle of it?
And by the way studies were done that show that circumcised men loose up to 40 % of the sensibility in that area,and to to mention the barbarian method of getting circumcised.

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19. Comment #42338 by AtheistAttorney on May 18, 2007 at 5:00 am

Overall a good article I thought. However I wonder about what I understood as his assertion that we should be as tolerant and nice as he says Hume was.

Aren't the days for tolerance and nicety past? As of course are the days of violent fundamental ideological opposition (ala Stalin).

I agree with Richard that those of us who are anti-religious have had just about enough of the smarmy arrogant "convictions" of the religious with their unsubstantiated, indefensible beliefs while at the same time - without any reasonable consideration - they dismiss literally mountains of evidence to the contrary. Their hate speech against minorities has reached fever pitch and is tolerated by society while in the same breath they claim, with apparently no sense of irony, that they are the persecuted ones.

Whenever I consider the laughability of it all I feel like I am pissing into the wind as it were because xtians (particularly Americans) are so utterly oblivious that one tends to feel like that small voice pointing to the unthinkable nakedness of their emperor.

No, we have been quiet for too long, while they spout their hatred of all that is not xtian, while they advocate the imprisonment and mental torture of gays and lesbians, while they speak lovingly of talking donkeys, burning bushes, walking corpses and theocracies - people like us have stood by in the past because of a feeling that religions should be respected because the people in them are nice. I've known many nice people in churches and I do not dispute that but religion itself is a dungeon with god as its master and we need to speak out or history will judge us. Bravo to Dawkins, Hitchings, Harris and those other brave souls who come out and say, religion is man-made, a delusion and we have come to free you from your chains.

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20. Comment #42604 by Gordon Brown on May 18, 2007 at 3:16 pm

This piece is more thoughtful than many posted here, not the least of reasons being that Gottlieb leaves ambiguous his own religious temperament. He does bring up salient points that are troubling for Harris' accounts especially.

However, when it comes to documenting Voltaire, he's gotten a bit sloppy. Gottlieb writes that the order and beauty in the universe persuaded Voltaire of the existence of a "supreme being." That's not quite correct: In his Treatise on Metaphysics, Voltaire writes:

[One way] of acquiring the notion of a being who directs the universe...is by considering ... the end to which each thing appears to be directed... [W]hen I see a watch with a hand marking the hours, I conclude that an intelligent being has designed the springs of this mechanism, so that the hand would mark the hours. So, when I see the springs of the human body, I conclude that an intelligent being has designed these organs to be received and nourished within the womb for nine months; for eyes to be given for seeing; hands for grasping, and so on. But from this one argument, I cannot conclude anything more, except that it is probable that an intelligent and superior being has prepared and shaped matter with dexterity; I cannot conclude from this argument alone that this being has made the matter out of nothing or that he is infinite in any sense. However deeply I search my mind for the connection between the following ideas — it is probable that I am the work of a being more powerful than myself, therefore this being has existed from all eternity, therefore he has created everything, therefore he is infinite, and so on. — I cannot see the chain which leads directly to that conclusion. I can see only that there is something more powerful than myself and nothing more.


Voltaire, From Chapter 2 of A Treatise on Metaphysics, second version, 1736. Translated by Paul Edwards

Further, Voltaire was fond of parodying the limitations of the argument from design; in Candide he is notorious for having quipped (I paraphrase here), "Isn't it clever of God to have fashioned the human nose so as to be a supporter of eyeglasses?"

Inaccuracies of this sort make me wonder what else Gottlieb has glossed over.

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