God grief


2. Comment #41873 by edge100 on May 17, 2007 at 8:26 am
This review is, I think, almost spot on. I find that while CH's arguments are all valid, he, unlike either RD or SH, fails to focus on the one real reason that one's life shouldn't revolve around what god wants: namely, that god doesn't exist.3. Comment #41874 by rokort on May 17, 2007 at 8:27 am
4. Comment #41881 by squinky on May 17, 2007 at 8:51 am
5. Comment #41885 by konquererz on May 17, 2007 at 9:06 am
6. Comment #41894 by David on May 17, 2007 at 9:21 am
I agree with the above comments of v4ri4bl3. For those who would like a more philosophical discussion of these issues however I would recommend Walter Kaufmann's Critique of Philosophy and Religion and also his The Faith of a Heretic (out of print but still available) and Jennifer Hecht's DOUBT, A History. Sadly in my opinion none of the recent criticisms of religion are on a par with these books. I think atheists, as I am, need to consider engaging more serious thinkers who are not fundamentalists such as John Polkinghorne, George Ellis, Robert Pollack, Freeman Dyson, Paul Davies, Francis Collins, Karen Armstrong, Chet Raymo, etc. There have been a few such debates and discussions but not nearly enough. I do truly appreciate Professor Dawkins daily links and would value any additional books or links any of you would like to provide.7. Comment #41912 by Dower on May 17, 2007 at 9:43 am
My problem with this review:
Why if evangelists and religious fundamentalists are so easy to tear down as 'easy targets' can't we succeed in doing so?
Squinky
8. Comment #41982 by Steven Mading on May 17, 2007 at 12:02 pm
The notion of a satan figure that is always lurking in the shadows trying to dissuade the faithful with arguments that trick you into thinking they are reasonable when they allegedly aren't - this is what makes it impossible to argue down a fundamentalist with facts and logic. The idea of the whispering seductive satan behind the disbelievers' arguments means that if your arguments start to seem convincing to the believer, the believer thinks, "Uh Oh - these argument are sounding convincing, that must mean Satan is behind this! I must do the morally right thing and refuse to be swayed by these arguments!"9. Comment #42017 by drbreakfast on May 17, 2007 at 1:05 pm
6. Comment #41894 by David on May 17, 2007 at 9:21 am10. Comment #42019 by sir_russ on May 17, 2007 at 1:09 pm
"Such a position assumes that simply because we understand what is going on during an earthquake or when a person is dying of cancer, these events cease to be terrifying."11. Comment #42023 by Mr. Mark on May 17, 2007 at 1:13 pm
GH writes:12. Comment #42057 by ? on May 17, 2007 at 2:36 pm
13. Comment #42112 by Bayle on May 17, 2007 at 4:16 pm
[quote]As a de-converted Christian, I think the reason it isn't easy to tear down evangelists and religious fundamentalists is that they refuse to read, watch or listen to anything that contradicts their revelations.[/quote]14. Comment #42130 by Russell Blackford on May 17, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Yes, clearly someone needs to take a stand against the religious views of William Blake and, of course, those of Simone Weil, since those views are causing enormous pain and damage, day by day. Look around, and you'll see how the contemporary world is in turmoil because of the age-old struggles of Weilian and Blakeist, and the stubborn resistance to modernity shown by both.15. Comment #42195 by Liveliest Crib on May 17, 2007 at 9:57 pm
This is a wonderfully written critique, a pleasure to read in its own right. Having not read Hitchens' book, I cannot legitimately comment on its accuracy, but it wouldn't surprise me if it indeed captures the essence of God Is Not Great.16. Comment #42201 by freeurmind on May 17, 2007 at 10:38 pm
...what a lovely site would that be,on one half of the room us atheist with pom pons on the other side J freaks with all their arsenal (smoke producing devices ,funny hats,luxurious robes ,their beautifully ornated sticks and the works).17. Comment #42214 by Bonzai on May 17, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Comment #41873 by edge100But I think the point is better made from the Dawkins/Harris (and even Dennett) standpoint; do religious beliefs stand up to the cold light of reason and evidence? If not, they should be discarded; we don't need something to "cling to", as some have put it. What we need is to appreciate our truly insignificant place in this universe, to recognize the absolutely astoundingly low probability that any one of us actually exists, and to bask in the beauty of the world around us and in the joy of life for the sake of life. Science doesn't cheapen this experience; it makes it far more vibrant.
18. Comment #42224 by Russell Blackford on May 18, 2007 at 12:24 am
^It's true that we can sometimes get carried away with condemning good, moderate people for their failure to embrace an austere, naturalistic view of the cosmos - however convincing, liberating, beautiful, majestic, and awe-inspiring we (well, I) find it. And it's not just theists; plenty of atheists believe in lots of spooky stuff for which there is no evidence.19. Comment #42797 by Elentar on May 19, 2007 at 4:43 pm
20. Comment #43332 by Tom Day on May 21, 2007 at 6:08 am
Good review. People don't subscribe to a religion following a careful examination of the philosophical or evidential arguments in its favour (unless they are stupid) - nor even after undertaking a review of its (often malign) place in history. They are either born and brought up in a religious tradition or embrace it when they are older for emotional reasons. Either way, it is unlikely that reason alone will convince many of them to abandon their faith. Harris's debate with Andrew Sullivan was a classic example of this. He won the intellectual argument hands down, but he offered no alternative vision to a man for whom religion provides emotional sustenance.
1. Comment #41860 by v4ri4bl3 on May 17, 2007 at 8:04 am
I feel that this is a very honest and well written critique of Hitchen's book. While I have not read more than a couple of pages so far with how busy I am, I think its great that we can have such different opinions about the same system of beliefs. Some of us more strident, some more sympathetic. Open criticism like this is so truly important. Even if we don't like the message or necessarily agree with it, it does give another perspective. Thanks to the website administrator for posting.Other Comments by v4ri4bl3