Wednesday, May 23, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version

Liberty U student plotted to set off explosives, police say

by cnn.com

Thanks to Bill Price for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/22/va.bombarrest/index.html

See also
Liberty student arrested on bomb charges (thanks to mnlandon for the link).
Liberty University freshman Mark David Uhl was arrested in a plot to detonate explosives the same day as the Rev. Jerry Falwell's funeral, police said.

Liberty University freshman Mark David Uhl was arrested in a plot to detonate explosives the same day as the Rev. Jerry Falwell's funeral, police said.

Story highlights

� Mark David Uhl's intended target is unknown
� ABC News reporting his goal: Ensure protesters don't disrupt Falwell funeral
� Uhl's family members called police, said he mentioned explosives
� Authorities found six explosive devices in 19-year-old Uhl's car

LYNCHBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- A first-year Liberty University student was arrested in what police said was a plot to detonate explosive devices Tuesday, the day of the Rev. Jerry Falwell's funeral.

Mark David Uhl's intended target is unknown, authorities said.

ABC News reported the youth told authorities he had made the bombs -- which were found in his car -- to stop protesters from disrupting Falwell's funeral. (Read the story about Falwell's funeral)

Police received a call about 11 p.m. Monday from one of Uhl's family members, who said they had talked with him and he had "mentioned some explosive devices he had made," said Maj. Steve Hutcherson of the Campbell County, Virginia, sheriff's office.

Authorities found in Uhl's vehicle "what appeared to be about six explosive devices" that had detonation devices with them, Hutcherson said. The homemade devices were canisters with some kind of liquid inside.

A Virginia State Police bomb squad was summoned to ensure the items were safe, he said.

Uhl, 19, from Amissville, Virginia, was arrested at the home of one of his friends in Campbell County, near Lynchburg, Hutcherson said.

He was being held without bond in the Campbell County Adult Detention Center on suspicion of manufacturing explosive devices.

"Anytime you have somebody with what appears to be explosive devices, you have to take that threat seriously," Hutcherson said.

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1. Comment #43868 by redfive on May 23, 2007 at 2:56 am

I can hear the defensive responses already.

"religion has nothing to do with it"

"you get psychopaths from all walks of life"

"Loot at what Stalin did, and Pol Pot, and Hitler! THEY were all atheists"

Other Comments by redfive

2. Comment #43869 by BaronOchs on May 23, 2007 at 2:57 am

Where's Bizarro?

Other Comments by BaronOchs

3. Comment #43871 by Philip1978 on May 23, 2007 at 3:01 am

Yikes, I don't like the Phelps family but that's taking things a bit far!

Joking aside, is it Bizzaro who goes to Liberty U? If you are reading this, did you know this Uhl guy? I only say this because I went to the same school as one of the lads who was involved in the bomb plot last year in England. Like the 9/11 and July bombers these guys are pretty much normal sort of middle class people who have never appeared to be prepared to do this sort of thing. Ok I dont agree with what is taught at Liberty Uni but this is terrible, I hope Bizzaro (if it is you who goes there) that you are going to be safe at this time plus I would like to hear your opinion, take care,

Philip

Other Comments by Philip1978

4. Comment #43873 by Bremas on May 23, 2007 at 3:11 am

To be fair I just pulled this off another site.

"The bombs were made from a combination of gasoline and detergent, ABC reported via a local law enforcement official. The official told ABC that the bombs were "slow burn" and would not have been very destructive."

Sounds more like a dangerous college prank than an attempt at doing harm. Just a hunch. I remember a few of my friends from college who would have had homeland security all over them if they were in college today.

Other Comments by Bremas

5. Comment #43879 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 3:19 am

I think Bizzaro is getting a cavity search somewhere. I'm sure he will be at his computer when he is able back down again - that reminds me,hows Ted Haggard these days - not that I'm implying he's behind it. I certainly wouldn't want to finger him because of his beliefs

Other Comments by BillySands

6. Comment #43890 by Karl Christensen on May 23, 2007 at 3:31 am

So... explosives wouldn't have disrupted the funeral?

Other Comments by Karl Christensen

7. Comment #43894 by MartinSGill on May 23, 2007 at 3:38 am

"The bombs were made from a combination of gasoline and detergent, ABC reported via a local law enforcement official. The official told ABC that the bombs were "slow burn" and would not have been very destructive."

The problem is... with a lot of the scare mongering and the culture of fear that is encouraged by our political masters is that people forget intent.

Conversely someone that intends to commit a crime, no matter if he succeeds or not, should always be treated much more seriously than someone who may have committed a crime but didn't intend to.

In this case, it shouldn't matter if the bombs would only kill 1 person instead of 1000, or even if they failed to detonate at all. All that proves is that we were saved by the criminal's incompetence. If he managed to get hold of real explosives he'd have used them instead.

What remains to be seen is if this boy really did intend to blow someone up.

Other Comments by MartinSGill

8. Comment #43964 by Scott McMeekin on May 23, 2007 at 5:12 am

The irony is incredible. A faith-head plots to kill or maim people exercising their constitutional right to free speech on the basis that he doesn't agree with their point of view. So what you've got here is a Xian who is entirely happy to pre-meditatively plan to maim and or kill those who don't believe in his particular imaginary-friend. Neither respecting his own constitution, laws or fellow man.

#43894 "What remains to be seen is if this boy really did intend to blow someone up."

I'm sorry, but it seems pretty conclusive to me. A boot full of molatovs. Yet another example of a faith-head who supposedly follows Jesus' example, except of course when we're talking about non-believers, in which case they don't qualify as human beings and aren't (in his mind anyway) subject to the protection of the law. We've even got some mealy-mouthed defense - "slow burning" - oh well that's ok - he only intended to maim the atheists, not actually blow them up.

I'm stunned that anyone actually has the gall to try to defend this kind of conduct. The only good thing to come from this in my mind is the fact that his family recognised that what he planned to do was utterly wrong, and saved him from himself and his delusion. I'm glad noone was hurt - but I also wonder how many people would have been glad to see pictures of atheist men, women and possibly children in flames on Fox News.

Scott.

Other Comments by Scott McMeekin

9. Comment #43971 by Pigasus on May 23, 2007 at 5:29 am

Incendiaries are not some "child safe" version of IEDs. If his intent was to simply cause a disruption, then a megaphone and a rainbow wig would have been more appropriate choices.

Mark Uhl has a myspace page: http://tinyurl.com/29gcvs

Other Comments by Pigasus

10. Comment #43975 by BillySands on May 23, 2007 at 5:38 am

Mark Uhl has a myspace page: http://tinyurl.com/29gcvs

Yes, notice the crusader and the fact he wants to meet jesus, osama, plato and Walt the racist disney. Presumably he wants to kill osama (who could help him meet jesus) and plato (for being gay)

Other Comments by BillySands

11. Comment #44018 by jayalenik on May 23, 2007 at 7:29 am

Hey Bremas
just to be fair
maybe only a few people would have been burned

Other Comments by jayalenik

12. Comment #44033 by CruciFiction on May 23, 2007 at 7:56 am

Check out his "This is BS" message of March 21, 2007

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=52589827&blogID=243872975&MyToken=d29c7b1f-856f-4dd5-b9ce-28212513b231

Wednesday, March 21, 2007

This is BS
Current mood: pissed off
Category: Life

I've come to the conclusion that I am insane. I work at school, I work at work, I work at home, I rarely have fun, and if I do anything at all in my free time I think about things that if I do anything about them it will make them worse, which is why I only get 1-4 hours sleep, if I'm lucky. I can't wait to actually use my BS training because, now, life is a frustrating cycle of BS. Hooah!

It was like a cry for help. Good thing he was stopped.

Other Comments by CruciFiction

13. Comment #44041 by padster1976 on May 23, 2007 at 8:09 am

Where's all the reactionary scare mongerers shrieking 'fundamentalist terrorist'!

Oh, that's right. This is different. Its one of their own.

Other Comments by padster1976

14. Comment #44047 by Bremas on May 23, 2007 at 8:20 am

jayalenik (11)
No... maybe his intention was to harm. I don't know that. Maybe his intention was to spread fear...likely hood much higher.

I've seen a lot of college kids do a lot of stupid things... likely hood very high in my personal book.

After reading the myspace clip I'd say his intentions were definately cruel. But where I come from a homemade explosive detergent device made by college kids can also be dangerous fun (in their minds).

I've never made one, so I'm no expert.

Other Comments by Bremas

15. Comment #44052 by PeteCole on May 23, 2007 at 8:23 am

I mostly feel pity for idealistic people like Uhl who are ready to throw away their (one and only) life because of fidelity to some crazy dogma ingrained through systematic brainwashing. I think back to when I was 19 and I shudder about what could have become of my life if I had taken the bait. I wonder how many students at Liberty so-called University will feel compelled to defend Uhl or even to pick up his mantle?

Other Comments by PeteCole

16. Comment #44059 by Michelle on May 23, 2007 at 8:34 am

According to the "nation" section of my local newspaper, the protesters were from the Westboro Baptist Church (the God Hates Fags bunch) protesting that Falwell was a friend of gays. (?!?!)

Michelle

Other Comments by Michelle

17. Comment #44063 by Luthien on May 23, 2007 at 8:43 am

I must stress that I have never tried this, but coming from a background where I know people who had engaged in rioting during the height of the troubles (in Northern Ireland), I know a thing or two about how petrol bombs are supposedly made.

Detergent might be added to the petrol in a petrol bomb because it disperses the fuel over a wider area on impact.

(I wonder if he also added sugar to the mix, to make it "stick"?)

Oh, and if the protestors are from that baptist church, they almost certainly would have had young children with them! Glad they caught him so we don't have little faces being horribly scarred because of it! :-(

Other Comments by Luthien

18. Comment #44066 by balliolboy on May 23, 2007 at 8:46 am

"The bombs were made from a combination of gasoline and detergent, ABC reported via a local law enforcement official. The official told ABC that the bombs were "slow burn" and would not have been very destructive."

Are the officials trying to re-assure the public or excuse the lad ? Thist sounds just like the defence used at the recent bomb plotters trial in the UK - you know - where the bombs were detonated but didn't go off "the bomb was meant as a protest and not to harm anybody". Is Uhl a good enough explosives expert to design a "not very destructive bomb"

Other Comments by balliolboy

19. Comment #44073 by Bremas on May 23, 2007 at 8:56 am

Let me just add that maybe the next abortion clinic bomber was just stopped. Can't really tell from the limited article. Didn't want a lynch mob to form on such limited information.

Other Comments by Bremas

20. Comment #44078 by Goodwithwood on May 23, 2007 at 9:29 am

Soap + petro = NAPALM

Other Comments by Goodwithwood

21. Comment #44083 by pdiff on May 23, 2007 at 9:36 am

Many college or high school kids may mess with explosives or similar (yes, I include myself at that age), but when they do so with an expressed intention of harm to others it ceases to be "messing around".

Glad they caught him and kudos to the "family" member who had the guts to turn him in.

Pdiff

Other Comments by pdiff

22. Comment #44142 by konquererz on May 23, 2007 at 12:33 pm

Well, I believe the other college crazy said he was doing Jesus will too. Well, I chalk this up to simple crazy religion. Sorry, come talk when an atheist kills or plots to kill tons of people. Its beginning to be common place to hear someone try to whack someone else in the name of god.

Other Comments by konquererz

23. Comment #44153 by jaf on May 23, 2007 at 1:25 pm

Bremas said -
"Sounds more like a dangerous college prank than an attempt at doing harm. Just a hunch. I remember a few of my friends from college who would have had homeland security all over them if they were in college today."

Sounds like someone who has had a crappy education, especially when it comes to chemistry. Liberty isn't renowned for its scientific rigour.

Other Comments by jaf

24. Comment #44216 by MelM on May 23, 2007 at 5:45 pm

I haven't seen anything about Fred Phelps being at the funeral. Phelps has a priceless video rant at: Jerry Falwell Split Hell Wide Open. According to Phelps, Jerry went to hell. This is a really funny video; don't miss it!

Other Comments by MelM

25. Comment #44222 by Dr Benway on May 23, 2007 at 6:41 pm

Scott McMeekin wrote:

We've even got some mealy-mouthed defense - "slow burning" - oh well that's ok - he only intended to maim the atheists, not actually blow them up.

Were atheists planning to protest? Seems a waste of valuable atheist time, which more properly ought to be spent celebrating. I'd heard of the Fred Phelps gang staging a protest, but no one else.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

26. Comment #44223 by Bonzai on May 23, 2007 at 6:51 pm

Comment #43879 by BillySands

I certainly wouldn't want to finger him because of his[Ted Haggard] beliefs

Well he may enjoy it.

Other Comments by Bonzai

27. Comment #44231 by Bizarro Dawkins on May 23, 2007 at 7:35 pm

"Soap + petro = NAPALM"

Er, not really. It has to be a very specific variety of detergent (I doubt they even make it anymore) and even at that you have to get the ratio perfect for the mixture to even be functional. How do I know this? Well, I mean, of course I just read it somewhere on the web...kind of...

I honestly laughed when I read the nature of these "explosive" devices (some media sources even called them "bombs"). This kid had no clue what he was doing, and I seriously doubt he had the guts to pull off his little stunt. I feel bad for him because he's definitely in a heap of trouble, but he definitely made a very poor choice.

And for the record, I don't know this guy. I do go to Liberty, but keep in mind that the school had over 11000+ kids on campus this past semester.

As for my take on the event, I have to admit I was a little shaken when I heard about it. I actually played in the service with one of the music teams at Liberty (Doc had requested that we play one of his favorite songs for his funeral), and I was thinking what a perfect opportunity a terrorist would have to take out alot of prominent evangelical Christians. The event just hit a little too close to home, regardless of the relatively harmless nature of the "bombs".

Of course I believe it would be very intellectually shallow to attribue this kid's actions to religion (especially Christianity). The Bible says to love and even pray for your enemies. I think this obviously rules out a Christianity based motivation. I also think it interesting that Redfive mentioned the common arguments against a religious motivation, but offered no rebuttals to them...

Keep in mind that many people attempted to kill Dr. Falwell during his life. Most of them were radical atheists. It is not an ideal that motivates people to evil deeds; it is a purposeful manipulation of that ideal. This event therefore is not representative of the Christian ideal, but rather of the basic human tendency towards evil.

Other Comments by Bizarro Dawkins

28. Comment #44240 by Dr Benway on May 23, 2007 at 8:16 pm

Bizarro wrote:

This event therefore is not representative of the Christian ideal, but rather of the basic human tendency towards evil.

I vote the guy is more nuts than evil, but I dunno.

I think of evil as heartless cruelty done to provoke a feeling of power or superiority over someone else.

4% of the American population lacks the normal, empathic feeling for others. Relationships don't offer much pleasure apart from the pleasure of winning.

96% feel with other people, and thus the pleasure of dominating or winning is tinged with anxiety for the other person's suffering. These people don't get the same buzz from cruelty that the 4% get. For the 96%, sharing mutually pleasurable experiences is a stronger motivation than the wish to dominate.

In short, the vast majority of people are basically good. Evil exists and it's wise to keep your eyes open for it, but it's not universal.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

29. Comment #44242 by pdiff on May 23, 2007 at 8:46 pm

Bizarro sayeth: "Keep in mind that many people attempted to kill Dr. Falwell during his life. Most of them were radical atheists."

Uhhh, you care to back up that with some references. I can find no information on such in my cursory search of the usual sites. Hardly seems like something that would be ignored by the faithful crowd.

And you can drop the Dr. bit. He never earned a doctorate in anything.

Pdiff

Other Comments by pdiff

30. Comment #44244 by Robert Maynard on May 23, 2007 at 9:13 pm

Bizarro: "..the basic human tendency towards evil."
Benway: "I vote the guy is more nuts than evil, but I dunno."

The idea of 'evil' as carried out by people isn't much more than a medieval explanation for the actions of dysfunctional individuals, who we now know are directly affected (as we all are) by varying degrees of crazy-brain, which they are less than entirely responsible for. :P

..so you're both right, but in different centuries.

Other Comments by Robert Maynard

31. Comment #44248 by Goodwithwood on May 23, 2007 at 9:32 pm

Bizarro

You are simply wrong. A bottle of Joy dish soap and some gasoline is all that it takes to make basic napalm.
You are pushing what you call the relatively harmless nature of the bombs. In fact the opposite is true. Napalm sticks to what it touches and can not be doused with water. Yes,it burns slowly. This insures that the victum suffers great pain as it burns it's way into ther flesh and death would be better than living with the wounds caused by napalm.
Conventional bombs mame or kill instantlly. Napalm makes sure that you die a slow painfull death.
In the Vietnam War napalm bombs were called the most affective anti-persanel weapon avalable.
Don't believe me? Just look it up. What Wikipedia has to say should be enough to convince you. This is a hideous

Other Comments by Goodwithwood

32. Comment #44252 by Goodwithwood on May 23, 2007 at 9:37 pm

Shit I hit the wrong button. Let me finish.

This is a hideous bomb. What it can do is frightening. Here's the link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

To make it simpler for you bizarro Napalm is what fuels the eternal fires of hell.

GWW

Other Comments by Goodwithwood

33. Comment #44255 by rokort on May 23, 2007 at 9:51 pm

From one of MD Uhl's blogs comes:
(CLICK HERE)

America, we have been given a chance to live the perfect life here. People have fought and died so we may have this opportunity. Go; take what you have been given. Receive what you have been offered. We are the biggest super power in the world not because of what we have done but because of what has been done for us and what we must do for future Americans, for our children.

Christians, we have been given life after death and we should help others receive it and not sit here in our big buildings and sing to ourselves so we can go home and feel good about ourselves.

Christians, fear of death, fear of death. The fear of death shows you don't believe. The bible says in Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." If you truly believe and you have given your life to God you know "You cannot die."

America, where are our leaders. Christians, where are our leaders. Uncle Sam needs soldiers to fight so our children may live free. God needs soldiers to fight so his children may live free.

It makes the -totally expected- comment by Bizarro:

Of course I believe it would be very intellectually shallow to attribue this kid's actions to religion (especially Christianity). The Bible says to love and even pray for your enemies. I think this obviously rules out a Christianity based motivation

...pretty intellectually shallow, i guess.

edit: not to mention the statement in this guys' blog that "we are the super power in the world" and the fact that he -just like quite some of his fellow students, actually- so desperately wants to join the army.

Gee, what an enlightning environment, this "University" he's at!

Other Comments by rokort

34. Comment #44256 by Dr Benway on May 23, 2007 at 9:58 pm

Goodwithwood wrote:

To make it simpler for you bizarro Napalm is what fuels the eternal fires of hell.

They have Joy in hell? Oh the irony.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

35. Comment #44263 by epeeist on May 23, 2007 at 11:38 pm

Comment #44231 by Bizarro Dawkins

Of course I believe it would be very intellectually shallow to attribue this kid's actions to religion (especially Christianity).

It would be shallow to extend his existential actions to being typical of religion. However, it is quite acceptable to point out the "university" he went to, the blogs he wrote and the background of his parents almost certainly makes him Christian. It also means that he may have being intending to carry out the bombing for what he thought were religious reasons.

Other Comments by epeeist

36. Comment #44268 by BaronOchs on May 24, 2007 at 12:55 am

Bizarro Dawkins say this can't have had anything to do with religion because the bible says to love and pray for your enemies.

How touchingly naive, say that in the bible it might, it doesn't mean that that is readily communicated to a lad like this by his faith.

Bizarro what do you say to the "dominionists" who want to secure political power for christians, despite the fact jesus rejected political power?

I bet you'd have no problem accepting that much of medieval christianity or even many examples today had not much to do with what it actually says in the gospels.

Anyhow, if the reputation of this "university" is tarnished by this, it is something of a happy ending to the whole affair.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

37. Comment #44279 by Logicel on May 24, 2007 at 4:26 am

Christians view all humans as being innately evil, but it also preaches that this evil can be adequately compensated by following the religion's credo--whatever that may be, as there are so many interpretations and sects. This attitude is reminiscent of dysfunctional parents constantly driving home the lack of worth in their children. In such families, the children are rewarded for kowtowing to this pressure; they are given confused, fragmented crumbs of 'love', which they hungrily grab. This dysfunctional 'push/pull can occupy their entire lives--you are bad, no you are good, no you are bad, no you are good.

They, like Christians, have a deep and basic distrust of their own humanity.

The photo of this young man--I wonder if it was taken before or after his arrest--shows an unhappy, troubled guy.

Other Comments by Logicel

38. Comment #44280 by redfive on May 24, 2007 at 4:30 am

Bizarro: "I also think it interesting that Redfive mentioned [IN COMMENT 1]the common arguments against a religious motivation, but offered no rebuttals to them..."

DO I need to?

1. Religion has got something to do with it: the whole thing was about fatty falwell.

2. Religion gives psychopaths a reason to commit atrocities if they believe a god is on their side, or even talking to them. It highlights the power of superstition.

3. As far as I know, and I stand to be corrected on this, Hitlerstalinpot were not doing their evil deeds in the name of atheism.

Other Comments by redfive

39. Comment #44282 by Logicel on May 24, 2007 at 4:33 am

However, members of dysfunctional families can and are encouraged to seek therapy. On the other hand, because of the absurd respect that is given to religion, a religious follower is not encouraged to mend their internalized basic dichotomy inherent in the religious view towards humanity.

The selfish gene leading to the altruistic society must be a horridly painful thorn in the side of supporters of religious superstitions. And neuroscience and its discoveries regarding the 'sick' brain drives those thorns even deeper. For they conclude that humans are decent, except when they are sick. No God need to apply.

Other Comments by Logicel

40. Comment #44290 by Pigasus on May 24, 2007 at 5:51 am

Since the odds of a zombie attack are low, could we not discuss the howtos of improvised incendiary weapons? The idea of whack jobs accidentally lighting themselves on fire makes me happy.

Other Comments by Pigasus

41. Comment #44303 by Dr Benway on May 24, 2007 at 7:49 am

Logicel wrote:

Christians view all humans as being innately evil, but it also preaches that this evil can be adequately compensated by following the religion's credo

In "god is not Great" Hitchens makes an important point: totalitarian systems all have this in common: laws no one can follow (e.g., love your enemies). When everyone is a lawbreaker, everyone is guilty. Everyone stands accused. No one, therefore, has the confidence to speak or to challenge authority. How convenient for the powers that be.

Different but related topic: It's bad manners to say, "I'm better than other people." For those who would like to say it, religion provides a tricky fix. First you humbly say, "I'm a terrible sinner." Then you say, "praise God for saving me by his grace!" Thus you can compliment God for selecting you from among the unwashed hordes and placing you among the heaven bound in-crowd, without sounding like a self-satisfied prick. Well, at least to those who share your gift for doublethink.

Religious people won't get what I'm saying. This might help: imagine God is actually a sock puppet you're wearing on your right hand. Without moving your lips too much, make the puppet say, "I so loved you that I sent my son to die for you." You then say, "Thank you so much, God!"

Then make the puppet say, "For God so hated the world, that he sent His only begotten son. Those that don't believe in him will roast in the fires of hell for eternity."

Other Comments by Dr Benway