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Wednesday, May 23, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document Some US Muslims say suicide attacks OK

by Alan Fram, Yahoo! News

Thanks to mnlandon for the link.

Reposted from:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070522/ap_on_re_us/poll_muslim_americans

WASHINGTON - One in four younger U.S. Muslims said in a poll that suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances, though most Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject the tactic and are critical of Islamic extremism and al-Qaida.

The survey by the Pew Research Center, one of the most exhaustive ever of the country's Muslims, revealed a community that in many ways blends comfortably into society. Its largely mainstream members express nearly as much happiness with their lives and communities as the general public does, show a broad willingness to adopt American customs, and have income and education levels similar to others in the U.S.

Even so, the survey revealed noteworthy pockets of discontent.

While nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely.

That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.

"It is a hair-raising number," said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.

He said most supporters of the attacks likely assumed the context was a fight against occupation — a term Muslims often use to describe the conflict with Israel.

U.S. Muslims have growing Internet and television access to extreme ideologies, he said, adding: "People, especially younger people, are susceptible to these ideas."

Federal officials have warned the U.S. must guard against homegrown terrorism, as the British suffered with the London transit bombings of 2005.

Even so, U.S. Muslims are far less accepting of suicide attacks than Muslims in many other nations. In Pew surveys last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France.

"We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam.

Andrew Kohut, Pew director, said in an interview that support for the attacks represented "one of the few trouble spots" in the survey.

The poll briefly describes the rationales for and against "suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets" and then asks, "Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?"

The question did not specify where a suicide attack might occur, who might carry it out or what was meant by using a bombing to "defend Islam."

Those of all ages backing at least some suicide attacks were about evenly divided between men and women, with support stronger from those who were U.S.-born and less educated, and those who attend mosques at least weekly.

In other findings:

_Only 5 percent of U.S. Muslims expressed favorable views of the terrorist group al-Qaida, though about a fourth did not express an opinion.

_Most said they are concerned about a rise in Islamic extremism in the U.S. and around the world.

_Only 40 percent said they believe Arab men carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

_By six to one, they say the U.S. was wrong to invade Iraq, while a third say the same about Afghanistan — far deeper than the opposition expressed by the general U.S. public.

_Just over half said it has been harder being a U.S. Muslim since the 9/11 attacks. Nearly a third of those who flew in the past year say they underwent extra screening because they are Muslim.

_Forty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American. Forty-two percent of Christians and 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants identified themselves primarily by their religion in earlier surveys.

_By six-to-one, they favor the Democratic Party over the Republican Party, and by five-to-one say they voted for Democratic Sen. John Kerry over President Bush in 2004.

The survey estimates there are roughly 2.35 million Muslim Americans. Among adults, two-thirds are from abroad while a fifth are U.S.-born blacks.

By law, the Census Bureau does not ask about people's religions.

Telephone interviews were conducted with 1,050 Muslim adults from January through April, including in Arabic, Urdu and Farsi. Subjects were chosen at random, from a separate list of households including some with Muslim-sounding names, and from Muslim households that had answered previous surveys.

The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 5 percentage points.

___

On the Net:

http://www.pewresearch.org

Comments 1 - 21 of 21 |

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1. Comment #43870 by simonchase on May 23, 2007 at 2:58 am

 avatarI like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung!

Oh sorry - wrong meeting

Other Comments by simonchase

2. Comment #43883 by Luthien on May 23, 2007 at 3:24 am

 avatar
U.S. Muslims have growing Internet and television access to extreme ideologies, he said, adding: "People, especially younger people, are susceptible to these ideas."


Oh sure, blame the internet and TV!

*sigh*

Why is it never..?

(a) The parent's fault.
(b) The fault of the doctrine of the religion itself, which clearly advocates martyrdom as glorious and well rewarded.
(c) Lack of education in critical thinking.

Other Comments by Luthien

3. Comment #43887 by GodlessHeathen on May 23, 2007 at 3:29 am

 avatarPersonally, I find this little revelation quite atrocious. These would be the same folks who demand religious tolerance, mid, while their own intolerance...

BOOM!


...is hard to criticize while in fear of your life, I suppose.

Other Comments by GodlessHeathen

4. Comment #43898 by Russell Blackford on May 23, 2007 at 3:42 am

Actually most of this doesn't surprise me at all. The really scary figure is that only 40 per cent believe that Arab men carried out the 9/11 attacks. That suggests that 60 per cent buy some kind of crazy conspiracy theory. I am reading this correctly, yes? If so, they (many of them) are deluded far beyond the call of their religious duty.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

5. Comment #43926 by mjwemdee on May 23, 2007 at 4:14 am

 avatarre: Comment #43898 by Russell Blackford

Exactly. That was the first thing that leapt out of the article for me too.

Other Comments by mjwemdee

6. Comment #43940 by Titchfield on May 23, 2007 at 4:30 am

I've just been reading End of Faith by Sam Harris and this sounds very much like the polling information he used. It's no longer a surprise to me.

Other Comments by Titchfield

7. Comment #43946 by eirik on May 23, 2007 at 4:38 am

these data are what harris et al. should refer to whenever some religious apologist claims that they are using straw-men tactics. religion is poisonous. end of story.

Other Comments by eirik

8. Comment #43982 by Logicel on May 23, 2007 at 5:59 am

 avatarForty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American. Forty-two percent of Christians and 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants identified themselves primarily by their religion in earlier surveys.
_____

Why not consider themselves as HUMANS first?

Other Comments by Logicel

9. Comment #44014 by LookToWindward on May 23, 2007 at 7:25 am

I'm a little confused. I don't think there is anything wrong with suicide bombing, per se, in war for instance, although I certainly wouldn't volunteer. The question should be about who is targeted, not just about whether the attacker dies in the attack.

Other Comments by LookToWindward

10. Comment #44028 by jayalenik on May 23, 2007 at 7:42 am

 avatarRe look to windward

Im a little confused too You think suicide bombing is okay if the target is justified.

Since we only get one go around, I prefer to fight the good fight here on earth

Other Comments by jayalenik

11. Comment #44040 by kevolved on May 23, 2007 at 8:09 am

 avatarre: Comment #44014 by LookToWindward

Yes, you are confused.
War it's self is wrong and should be avoid, I think most rational people would agree with that. Wars are usually fought for less than moral reasons, usually for greed and over ideology. So wouldn't anything done in war also be wrong?
Now if you are talking about an act of real desperation, that's different, but barely.

I'm with jayalenik, fight the good fight, only fools and nitwits blow themselves up.

Other Comments by kevolved

12. Comment #44060 by padster1976 on May 23, 2007 at 8:38 am

 avatarkevolved.

I'm a little uncomfortable with the 'nitwits' comments.

I see the right wing comments on TV using the term terror with regards to suicide bombings and remember how they will twist and spin anything to gainthe sympathy vote. Just look at the biased coverage at the illegal occupation of the west bank and gaza strip. These are the same people (well, mainly fox news to be honest) who will go to greats lengths to defend 'their own'- Hannity with C Hitchens for a recent example.

It would appear that their 'opinion', dressed as fact so permeats our psyche, that we sometime forget that there are real people of whom we know nothing about, blowing themselves up. That's a very extreme thing to do.

I often wonder what motivated these people. Sure, religion will play a big major part. But EVERY SINGLE ONE? You have to ask yourselves, some of these people are woman - remembering that islam is a male dominated culture. Were they co-oerced, blackmailed? Who knows!? And thats the point. We just don't know.

Also, you have to admit, it takes a desperate person to do that to themselves. And we certaintly won't get the 'otherside' in our western war cheerleading media.

Other Comments by padster1976

13. Comment #44069 by Thrall on May 23, 2007 at 8:50 am

Ok, so what? After the Ok. City bombing, 9% of americans said it was ok to bomb the government if they believed it to be opressive. In the same study (this recent 2007 pew research study), 24% of americans thought it was ok TO ATTACK CIVILIANS in a war. One third of the soldiers in iraq say it's ok to torture, and 2/3 said they would not report a colleauge for harassing citizens (physical abuse or otherwise) or breaking their stuff.

THIS ISN'T NEWS! If you ask me in a poll if "would it be conceivable to attack certain governments in certain situations", my answer would of course be YES, but you shouldn't take that data and say "look, athiests want to kill our government!"

Sigh.

Other Comments by Thrall

14. Comment #44116 by Fezik on May 23, 2007 at 10:43 am

I just read this morning two interesting blog posts by Glenn Greenwald at Salon.com, discussing the poll which this article refers to. He himself points to polls, much like the one (or the exact same one, don't remember) mentionned by Thrall above, and which actually indicate that the americans, overall, show even worse percentages when answering questions of this nature.


The real shame here, and what seemed to me the main point of the posts, is that the american mass media are quite likely to jump on those "statistics" to further the idea of the muslim-boogeyman without putting it in the proper context, which clearly shows that things are just as bad (sorry, worse!) with the "average Joe". Irrationality is rampant in that country these days, and picking and choosing the statistical data that confirm your previous ideas while ignoring the rest is just one of the symptoms.

For those who'd like to read Glenn's take on it:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/05/23/polls/index.html

Other Comments by Fezik

15. Comment #44125 by Bonzai on May 23, 2007 at 10:57 am

Comment #43898 by Russell Blackford

Actually most of this doesn't surprise me at all. The really scary figure is that only 40 per cent believe that Arab men carried out the 9/11 attacks.


Actually a lot of non muslims subscribe to 9/11 conspirarcy theory as well. It is becoming an industry on the net and the most vocal nuts are not muslims (Steve Jones and company come to mind) I was on some moderate muslim forum there was this non muslim American guy who kept starting new threads with claims that 9/11 was an inside job and posting links to crazy sites. No one commented on his threads except for occasional posters telling him he was insane.

Other Comments by Bonzai

16. Comment #44129 by Bremas on May 23, 2007 at 11:11 am

"Only 40 percent said they believe Arab men carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001."

I've mentioned this before. Personal experience in the middle east tells me this is much higher there.

When are we all moving to NZ? This thing's going nuclear. (I'm always scared of spelling nuclear wrong :-))

Other Comments by Bremas

17. Comment #44145 by konquererz on May 23, 2007 at 12:42 pm

 avatarSuicide attacks, even in war, have no rational basis. By killing yourself, you will never ensure your end is accomplished any way, thus your purpose can never be realized. Besides, what would be classified as something worthy of killing yourself over? Freedom? Fighting Tyranny? The small explosion of a suicide bombing never accomplishes much but to cause fear and unrest due to its happening. It doesn't ever accomplish any larger goals. And the only people who will kill themselves are those who believe there is something greater when they die, or they would think twice about ending the one life they have. And tell me the last suicide bomber that ever killed him self for a truly noble cause? Fact is, if they are really dedicated to a truly noble cause, they aren't going to fight by blowing themselves up, thats just silly.

Other Comments by konquererz

18. Comment #44154 by Stublore on May 23, 2007 at 1:25 pm

 avatar

I often wonder what motivated these people. Sure, religion will play a big major part. But EVERY SINGLE ONE? You have to ask yourselves, some of these people are woman - remembering that islam is a male dominated culture. Were they co-oerced, blackmailed? Who knows!? And thats the point. We just don't know.

The reason women do it is to gain/regain status in their culture, and they get the same instant pass into heaven as the males.

Other Comments by Stublore

19. Comment #44166 by perkyjay on May 23, 2007 at 2:05 pm

Incidentally Bonzai, there are two Steve Jones. The 'good' guy is the British atheist from London University ,author of "Darwin's Ghosts", and the other one is from Brigham Young University, a physicist and the 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

Other Comments by perkyjay

20. Comment #44191 by kevolved on May 23, 2007 at 3:12 pm

 avatarComment #44116 by Fezik
I just read this morning two interesting blog posts by Glenn Greenwald at Salon.com, discussing the poll which this article refers to.


I read Glenn Greanwald's post on Salon.com, thanks for the link. I think part of his argument, and yours, is flawed, here's why. The poll that he sites is a Iranian and American world public opinion poll. It has 80% of Iranians answering Never Justifiable to Attacks on Civilians and 46% of Americans answered the same. The strange part about the poll is the very next question on Attacks on Palestinian and Israeli Civilians. 53% of Iranians answer sometime justified to Attacks by Palestinians on Israeli civilians. What happen to the never justifiable 80%? Here is a link to the actual poll.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/jan07/Iran_Jan07_rpt.pdf

I think polls should not be taken to seriously and that people don't always answer them accurately either intentional or by accident. Anyone can take a poll a twist it to say what they want. By the way, 21% of Americans answer sometime justified to Attacks by Israelis on Palestinian civilians.

Other Comments by kevolved

21. Comment #44311 by Fezik on May 24, 2007 at 9:13 am

Thank you for pointing that out, kevolved. I've been sloppy and had not read the full text for myself. I have yet to review it in its entirety, but I skipped to the relevant section and it's true that those 2 questions clearly contradict themselves in their results.

It has me wondering how the people polled were able to reconcile the two answers, and whether the 2 questions were actually asked in sequence, which would make it less likely, I think, for the respondant not to realize he's contradicting himself. The introduction to the text says that polling was done through face-to-face interviews. I can easily imagine how the apparent lack of anonymity in such a procedure might affect some people's answers. This is somewhat addressed at the beginning of the document, but not convincingly enough for my own tastes.

So, while I agree that using the answers of that poll to try and "parry" the results presented in the one that is the object of this thread is not a good idea, I think that what you pointed out to me actually strengthens the point I was trying to make, which is that it's quite easy and all too frequently done to use polling data improperly as an argument meant to convince, when it should perhaps at best be used to discern certain trends that would be the interesting subject of further (and more rigorous) investigation.

Other Comments by Fezik
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