Friday, May 25, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version

Atheists: Get off of our country!

by prosebeforehos.com

Thanks to Ranjani for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/anonymous_banker/05/08/atheists-get-off-of-our-country/

I received an anonymous tip from an acquaintance living on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska in the form of the above clipping from the Kenai Peninsula Clarion, the region's daily rag. I've done a little research into the area, and other than the occasional moose attack (which makes the front page of the news) it seems like a normal sort of area.

Which makes me wonder which of the local heavy metal bands has taken the newspaper hostage. Not only have they printed one of the most misguided and inflammatory letters I've ever seen regarding the role of religion in our county, but they've omitted any sort of hints of what lies beyond in the title. I almost expect to see the word strong in italics or quotes. Reader voices "strong" opinion on atheists? It was probably Korupture or Tainted Sanity.

I understand this actually did garner some response letters for which I was too lazy to register to the Peninsula Clarion's website to read, but the fact that this sort of hate-speech made it into the printed edition boggles the mind. There's a reason radio stations have dump buttons (for people like Don Imus), but newspapers are different-. It's as if the editor made up a likely sounding name from the remote town of Soldotna to further his twisted religious agenda.

It seems everyone here has dropped to the same level of intelligence, since the second letter seems to want to keep on fishing until all the �.. ? Till all the fish are gone?? Sounds like a wonderful plan. Because Jesus was a fisherman, right?

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1. Comment #44543 by Lordsuhn on May 25, 2007 at 4:13 am

How can you argue with such scholarly logic. I guess I'd better go pack my bags.

But first, can we clarify which god you have to believe in?

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2. Comment #44546 by AtheistJunkie on May 25, 2007 at 4:15 am

Dear Alice,
You're a f#*&^k idiot.
American Atheist

Other Comments by AtheistJunkie

3. Comment #44552 by _J_ on May 25, 2007 at 4:22 am

I think you should do it. I'm sure we in the rest of the world would be very happy to accomodate your freethinking scientific elite. I'd quite like to see how America would get by minus it's 30 million non-religious people.

I'd give it maybe a couple of months, or until the lightbulbs in the traffic signals need changing.

Other Comments by _J_

4. Comment #44562 by bamboospitfire on May 25, 2007 at 4:39 am

Here's the response that was printed.

"I read with interest and concern Ms. Shannon's letter of Jan. 29. While I do not believe Ms. Shannon's extreme views are in the majority, I hasten to note that atheists are still the least-understood and most-feared minority in the United States today.

"With Protestant Christianity our cultural religion, many Americans are raised, and indeed spend their whole lives, without meeting or getting to know even one atheist. Lack of experiential knowledge breeds fear, which in turn gives rise to resent and hatred. This is the source of Ms. Shannon's sentiment, and that of those like her.

"We Americans can see the ultimate destination of such caustic, unnecessary, and ill-informed beliefs in the Middle East today: the jihad fundamentalist Islam wages on the United States is bred in ignorance of the average American, permitting those who hate us to stereotype us, thus making the murder of innocent Americans far easier.

"In the end, it is ignorance of atheism and atheists that lies at the source of Ms. Shannon's beliefs. I hope she meets an atheist at some time in her life and realizes just how wrong she is: that it is quite possible to befriend, and indeed love, as Christ would have it, someone whose beliefs are different from her own."

Neal Coleman

Muncie, Ind.

Other Comments by bamboospitfire

5. Comment #44566 by Fanusi Khiyal on May 25, 2007 at 4:42 am

My only comment is let's ditch this ridiculous nonsense about 'hate speach'. This letter has given me a really good laugh.

More to the point, it is nonsenselike this that is among our best allies. I remember that Richard Dawkins remarked that he had to be convinced that Ann Coulter wasn't invented by 'The Onion'.

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6. Comment #44573 by Tyler Durden on May 25, 2007 at 4:54 am

Wow, amazing such drivel actually gets printed. And doing a fine job in pointing out how ignorant and narrow-minded true believers are... we need never write another artice on this subject again - simply leave it up to them to show their true colours!

Of course, she shot herself in the foot in her 2nd paragraph: "The United Sates is based on having freedom of religion, speech etc."

Yep, freedom of speech. Freedom to state you don't believe in god. Sorry, Alice, what was your point again??

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7. Comment #44584 by Mat on May 25, 2007 at 5:06 am

Just amazing. Conflating "freedom of religion" with "forced belief in religion" - exactly the opposite of what the intention was! This stuff is brilliant because it shows exactly how small-minded, nasty, vituperative and anti-freedom some Christians can be. Unfortunately, I suspect that many people would nod and agree with her if you read this to them...

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8. Comment #44586 by Machoduck on May 25, 2007 at 5:08 am

I raise my middel finger at this (insert word synonymous with female canine)!

If such ignorance, wrongthought and prejustice is common in the US, then no wonder it is such a retarded country. Yes - retarded. I really hope that it is loonies like this (insert word synonymous with female canine)who in the end, will cause the decay of the American civilization.

The Christian right, the NeoCons and Uncle Scrooge-like capitalists have allready caused the moral and cultural decay of that once great nation. I'm sure it won't take long before their echonomical and political power will disapear, and the proud American soil will be covered with the ashes of another fallen empire.

The Land of the Free decays from the inside...

Other Comments by Machoduck

9. Comment #44594 by MIND_REBEL on May 25, 2007 at 5:15 am

Pure hate. Could you imagine if they wrote a letter talking about any other ethnic minority instead of atheists. SICK, just SICK. Atheists are more oppressed than any other group in the US.

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10. Comment #44597 by J.C. Samuelson on May 25, 2007 at 5:17 am

@ 8. Comment #44586 by Machoduck on May 25, 2007 at 5:08 am

If such ignorance, wrongthought and prejustice is common in the US, then no wonder it is such a retarded country.

It is not common.

I really hope that it is loonies like this (insert word synonymous with female canine)who in the end, will cause the decay of the American civilization.

You hope for the decay of American civilization? Just asking.

The woman is obviously not the sharpest pencil in the box, and it wouldn't surprise me if (assuming she's real) she lives somewhere isolated even from her fellow Alaskans. As the post points out, it is a remote town. It's easy to support your delusions when there's no one to challenge them. I don't worry for America on her account.

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11. Comment #44617 by pissinintothewind on May 25, 2007 at 5:40 am

That reminds me must make more of an effort to stop practising evil, ....now where did I leave that child.

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12. Comment #44622 by PrimeNumbers on May 25, 2007 at 5:43 am

Reads like a form letter to me and I'm sure i've seen very similar writing elsewhere on the internet, in responses to articles etc. Would be good to track it down if possible....

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13. Comment #44630 by glittergulch on May 25, 2007 at 5:54 am

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you like your trainwrecks) it's a hoax: http://templewhore.blogspot.com/2007/05/not-all-news-is-bad.html

Other Comments by glittergulch

14. Comment #44633 by micronut on May 25, 2007 at 5:59 am

"I don't recall freedom of religion meaning no religion"

At least in the midst of all the venom, she got one thing right: Atheism is NOT a religion.

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15. Comment #44643 by konquererz on May 25, 2007 at 6:11 am

Despite what most Christians will try and tell you, this type of belief is VERY common among evangelical Christians. My parents would agree with it. My former paster once said that it would do the country good to ship all the atheists out to see to their own heretic island. Growing up a fundamentalist Christian, I can't be convince that this belief is not common, its all I knew, and she is sadly not the most ignorant among us, but one of the average.

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16. Comment #44649 by blueollie on May 25, 2007 at 6:23 am

Actually, I agree with Ms. Shannon, and I shall help her with her "kick out the atheists" movement.

From now on, everyone who hates atheists will boycott everything that those atheists come up with.

Since all but 7% of the top scientists (and all but 40% of the rank and file) would fit her definition of atheist, she and those who would agree with her will boycott technology, modern medicine and the like until we leave.

:-)

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17. Comment #44654 by Jayday on May 25, 2007 at 6:33 am

I recently watched a Science Channel program on the topic of going to Mars and the science it would take to get us there and set up a permanent settlement. It was al very interesting until the narrator talked about the possibility that some people may go for "religious" reasons. The really disturbing thing was that it wasn't clear if he meant to spread religion into the cosmos via Mars, or as a new start in a place that doesn't have religion as a part of the social structure. I have an idea...since our solar system will eventually die with the sun, how about we leave all the theists behind and strike out into the cosmos with a clean slate of reasonable people who don't spread this kind of hate and ignorance?

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18. Comment #44658 by djmagaro on May 25, 2007 at 6:40 am

Notice Ms. Shannon's list of acceptable religions are all Christian denominations. Must must wonder if her "etc." includes Jews and Muslims, let alone the pantheistic Hindus, animistic shamanists, or nontheistic Buddhists.

I think konquerez's comments (Comment #44643) offer some insight into the Fundementalist mindset. I grew up Catholic in the largely Protestant rural Pennsylvania, and I tell you what - we Catholics weren't even counted as Christians by many Protestants.

My Fundamentalist friends (this is before the Culture Wars, mind you) constantly tried to convert me because, even though I too "accepted Jesus Christ as my Personal Lord and Savior," I somehow wasn't doing it the right way.

Similarly, one girl I went to high school with - a Lutheran - didn't even know that Catholics were Christians until the topic came up (by way of discussing JFK) in an Advanced Placement Government course our senior year! This girl was 18 (!!!) before she learned this, and she was practically incredulous! You could almost see the mental gears grinding to a halt as the new knowledge came into direct conflict with what she'd been previously taught - or more accurately, NOT TAUGHT.

"What did you think we were?" we asked.

"I don't know. Not Christians," she said.

"We were the first Christians!" [I know, I know, this is Catholic propaganda, but wait till you see her response.]

"What? I thought we [Lutherans] were!"

Other Comments by djmagaro

19. Comment #44668 by Planeswalker on May 25, 2007 at 6:55 am

I guess that's just another reason for you Americans to speak up.

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20. Comment #44674 by MAS2007 on May 25, 2007 at 7:05 am

Comment #44649 by blueollie

I second that sentiment. Also please stop using technology to promote theistic belief systems.
Read the letter was found to be hoax. Sadly its contents pervade too large a portion of American population. How can I secure a grant for development of medical treatment for stupidity?

Other Comments by MAS2007

21. Comment #44680 by CJ22 on May 25, 2007 at 7:13 am

It turned out to be a hoax:

http://templewhore.blogspot.com/2007/05/not-all-news-is-bad.html

"In two days, we receive more than 30 letters. Some were angry with her. Some were angry with us. They said we should be ashamed of ourselves for printing it, and that we would never have done that if it were about blacks or Jews. They're right, we wouldn't have. However, to be an atheist, you make a conscious choice."

Conscious choice? How do they figure?

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22. Comment #44704 by bamboospitfire on May 25, 2007 at 7:40 am

I noticed that sentence as well, CJ22. The Clarion can only be right if being religious is a human's default setting and one has to reject religion to become an atheist. That obviously isn't the case, although I can see why the mistake has been made (religious indoctrination of children remains an accepted and widespread practice) and the fact that the mistake has been made is troubling.

Whilst it is probably true to say that more atheists have actually thought about their position with regard to religion than the religious themselves have, that does not mean that it is any more acceptable to attack atheists based on our lack of faith than it is to attack theists (as opposed to theism) based on their faith.

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23. Comment #44751 by ImagineAZ on May 25, 2007 at 8:54 am

Can I just say that while atheists were unnecessarily attacked in the hoax of a letter, another group was attacked - in the response to the letter.

"Which makes me wonder which of the local heavy metal bands has taken the newspaper hostage."

Set aside for the moment the well-known and almost universally accepted fact that heavy metal musicians tend to be far less religious than the average American. That still leaves us with the insults of bigotry and stupidity. As a lifelong fan of heavy metal music and a musician myself, I shall be sending my rant to the paper.

Heavy metal musicians are traditionally very liberal. And don't let our long hair and mosh pits fool you - we're a spirited lot, but not unintelligent.

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24. Comment #44777 by bouwe on May 25, 2007 at 9:21 am

16. Comment #44649 by blueollie on May 25, 2007 at 6:23 am
Actually, I agree with Ms. Shannon, and I shall help her with her "kick out the atheists" movement.

From now on, everyone who hates atheists will boycott everything that those atheists come up with.

Since all but 7% of the top scientists (and all but 40% of the rank and file) would fit her definition of atheist, she and those who would agree with her will boycott technology, modern medicine and the like until we leave.
:-)

lol. love it! A good way to respond when confronted with this sort of thing. Spread that response-meme.

In this case it was a hoax, but I know for a fact that there are many people who think that way.

As for " ..but atheists make a conscious choice":

Does a theist make a "conscious choice" not to believe in Zeus? What one believes and doesn't believe is, or at least should be, dictated by the degree to which one finds the evidence and arguments convincing or unconvincing. Only an idiot "chooses" to belieive in something. "Beliefs" aren't like a new pair of pyjamas you decide to put on. This whole mentality gives rise to the whole Pascal's Wager nonsense. Anybody proposing that ridiculous gambit immediately outs themselves as shallow and in need of a remedial course in logic.

Tell that idiot to "choose" to believe he/she can fly, and then tell them to start flapping their arms and take a running jump off the nearest cliff.

And that is my contribution to the response-memepool to those who say "but you have made a conscious choice to become an atheist!"

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25. Comment #44811 by Phaeonix on May 25, 2007 at 10:32 am

Major gripe here. As one of the first members of these boards, not a single article I've emailed, (design@richarddawkins.net) has been published, and most of those are entered by others several days, and in this case months after the fact.

This article, in particular, I posted to my older blog and submitted to this site MANY weeks ago. I'm a bit peeved.

Anyway, at work I can't get to any blog site, but the original article and picture from the actual article is there, it is in fact a real thing. The review process for article submission needs to be revamped.

http://www.unmovedpaperweight.blogspot.com/

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26. Comment #44890 by Duff on May 25, 2007 at 1:46 pm

Ok, so it was a fake letter. I read the letter sections of many western newspapers and letters like this are pretty common/ stupid that is, not fake. It never ceases to amaze me how unlettered and narrow minded the majority of the people in this country are.

Other Comments by Duff

27. Comment #44899 by CJ22 on May 25, 2007 at 2:18 pm

Blogging's a filthy habit anyway Phaeonix. It can make you go blind.

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28. Comment #44946 by Satanburiedfossils on May 25, 2007 at 4:13 pm

Get off of our country?

I'm surprised that the letter writer didn't bid atheists to go jump off the edge of the earth.

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29. Comment #44971 by drbreakfast on May 25, 2007 at 5:35 pm

"Atheists have caused the ruin of this great nation by taking prayer out of our schools and being able to practice what can only be called evil."

Um. OK, I work 6-7 days a week running a small business and employ college students; I have a wife and two children, (both gifted and well adjusted), and I support them; I do pro bono work; I pay my taxes; I've never been arrested, etc. But I refuse to believe in something for which there is no evidence of. What evil am I practicing?

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30. Comment #44997 by Helios G2V on May 25, 2007 at 6:38 pm

While this letter appears to be a hoax it does underline a theme I find common among Americans I meet. Most are not as vehemently opposed to atheism as this hoax letter assumes, however, it usually comes as a shock (to Americans) that a country can become successful without the need for a mass religious belief.

Australia is one of these countries which has managed to generate success without needing the assistance of any deities. I would even go as far as to say it is because of our disbelief that we have managed to have a reasonably well educated, hard working population. We have our problems but overall I would say "no worries, mate".

So, (here's the pitch) if you are sick to death of evangelicals dribbling their particular vile worldview emigrate (or visit) Australia. We are particularly interested in innovative people, as we have several environmental difficulties at the moment, drought and land salinity being our biggest challenges. These challenges will be met and resolved, however, the more scientific the approach the more sustainable the result.

Pack your sunscreen and come to
Heretics Island - Australia.

Other Comments by Helios G2V

31. Comment #45008 by Dr Benway on May 25, 2007 at 7:11 pm

So, to all atheists in America: get off of our country

The evil atheist powers that we practice allow us to hover 2 mm above the ground at all times. Rest assured, we're actually not on the country at all.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

32. Comment #45044 by scooternyc on May 26, 2007 at 2:36 am

The lack of intelligence to the extent that one is able to research our history regarding the founding of this nation never ceases to amaze and astound.

People of this ilk that find themselves on their sanctimonious soap box of self-righteousness quite often are the abusers of hate.

Just how many articles have we read in say, the past 30 years, where it starts out, "Atheists incited violence today in the middle east..." or "Atheists bombed abortion clinics in response to..." or "Atheists gave refuge to Tutsi tribe members only to turn them over to their government for slaughter in Rwanda..." or...

How many you ask?

None.

How many involved relgious types of one sect or another?

All.

The religious are correct, it is all about them.

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33. Comment #45278 by wice on May 27, 2007 at 4:15 am

brilliant logic. saying that "freedom of religion means you have to believe in god" is like saying "freedom of speech means you must twaddle all the time".

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34. Comment #45429 by Skep on May 27, 2007 at 5:50 pm

It would seem that it isn't the hoax letter that is of note but the newspaper that would publish it that is of interest.

Now it would seem that they are angry that the intolerant letter they published wasn't genuine. Oh, the horror. Sounds like a call for genuine intolerants to fire up the flamebait.

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