1. Comment #45853 by Rtambree on May 29, 2007 at 11:52 am

He needs to get some new jokes. Regulars here could give the speech for him.

Other Comments by Rtambree

2. Comment #45864 by aoratos philos on May 29, 2007 at 12:26 pm

For those that haven't noticed this video is downloadable as an .mp4 and audio only as .mp3 from the Fora TV video pop up window http://fora.tv/fora/showthread.php?t=1055

It's buffering like crazy for me, hence the download suggestion :D

Other Comments by aoratos philos

3. Comment #45867 by Zaphod on May 29, 2007 at 12:31 pm

This is what happens on a book tour. Any tour. Bands play the same songs, comedians have the same routine. At the end of Richards tour I felt I could have given his answers for him. The questions he received where the so mundane and similar.

Other Comments by Zaphod

4. Comment #45879 by Eventhorizon on May 29, 2007 at 1:01 pm

#45864 by aoratos philos

Its buffering every 10 seconds for me too but the link you posted only takes me to the movie. I think I'm missing the mp3 link somewhere?

Other Comments by Eventhorizon

5. Comment #45880 by Morro on May 29, 2007 at 1:05 pm

"He needs to get some new jokes. Regulars here could give the speech for him."

Yes. Though, I do sympathize. With the number of speaking appearances he does, I can't imagine being totally original every time. Nobody's that creative, that often.

Other Comments by Morro

6. Comment #45881 by NMcC on May 29, 2007 at 1:12 pm

Interesting take that Hitchens now has on the Iraq invasion. His view is that if the Americans pull out with their tails between their legs, as Hitchens reckons they will, the chaos and violence left behind will be the fault of all the peace-mongers who opposed the war in the first place.

Other Comments by NMcC

7. Comment #45888 by tieInterceptor on May 29, 2007 at 1:45 pm

I get the same deja vu feeling now with Richard, Sam Harris and Hitchens,
But it's worth it, there is always a good % that is new and interesting... sad that people always asks the same questions...

Hitchens is fun anyway... but what the hell was he hitting ? I downloaded the mp3 and could not see... but is sounded like he was slapping the microphone all the time

Other Comments by tieInterceptor

8. Comment #45891 by flyingscot on May 29, 2007 at 1:55 pm

Quote (Hitchens is fun anyway... but what the hell was he hitting ? I downloaded the mp3 and could not see... but is sounded like he was slapping the microphone all the time)

He was repeatedly putting his hands on the lectern and the mics obviously were not secured properly.
Enjoyable talk just the same.

Other Comments by flyingscot

9. Comment #45893 by AtheistAcolyte on May 29, 2007 at 2:16 pm

The more and more I watch Hitchens, the more I like him. The way he handled the crowd when the third questioner (a believer) came up, and his patience with the obviously bigoted "Mormon guy", and the following non-questioning atheist woman were quite amazing. He may have to find his way bumped up on my reading list.

Other Comments by AtheistAcolyte

10. Comment #45905 by dissident on May 29, 2007 at 2:57 pm

Cut the hitch some slack; overall it was an articulate, witty and thought provoking speech. Surely he should be graded on the content of the speech and not on his recycled gags.

Plus, he did make the effort to remain sober for this one...

Other Comments by dissident

11. Comment #45906 by FXR on May 29, 2007 at 3:03 pm

Sorry to go off topic but how do I get an article added to the list. Under the e mail address it say attachments will be deleted. Does that mean I can't put a link to a web page in the email?
Thank you for your co-operation in this matter.

Other Comments by FXR

12. Comment #45907 by TIKI AL on May 29, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Hitchens presents a love-hate relationship for me surpassed only by my ex-wife.

He couldn't make more sense on religion.
He couldn't be more wrong on Iraq.

I hope that mic gremlin wasn't god showing his usual disruptive nature.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

13. Comment #45911 by BT Murtagh on May 29, 2007 at 3:25 pm

Seeing speakers like Hitchens take questions provides a much needed reminder that it is a rare thing to treasure, this sublime ability to get to the fricking point already (or at least to make the journey there interesting).

Other Comments by BT Murtagh

14. Comment #45918 by eirik on May 29, 2007 at 3:45 pm

13. Comment #45911 by BT Murtagh on May 29, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Seeing speakers like Hitchens take questions provides a much needed reminder that it is a rare thing to treasure, this sublime ability to get to the fricking point already (or at least to make the journey there interesting).

hear, hear. i really felt sorry for that monotheist guy, and i can't help thinking that much of his shyness is due to his paternalist religious beliefs. and what about that atheist woman?! "i just had to get up and tell the story of my spiritual life!" wtf!? people showed to listen to hitchens, not her, and i downloaded the video clip for the same reason. she really annoyed me.

Other Comments by eirik

15. Comment #45925 by Strider40 on May 29, 2007 at 4:23 pm

Hitch looks like he's jonesin' for a scotch!

Other Comments by Strider40

16. Comment #45933 by Shine on May 29, 2007 at 4:42 pm

I would like to see one Hitchens thread without references to alcohol. I don't think it's too much to ask for. Bringing up alcohol in a Hitchens thread is more played out than his recycled jokes.

Find some new material, guys.

Other Comments by Shine

17. Comment #45934 by NMcC on May 29, 2007 at 4:46 pm

The usual curate's egg from Hitchens - good in parts.

Quite astonishing that he should quote the 'beautiful' words of Karl Marx on religion to an American audience and get a round of applause. OK, so it might have been because it was the end of the meeting, but it sounded if they would have applauded anyway.

I'm nonplussed at the attitude that the woman in the audience who made a public avowal of her atheism was jarring. I thought that's what we were supposed to be encouraging - Americans to stand up and say religion is bullshit. This is exactly what this woman did, and did it very passionately at that. I got the impression that she was relieved to be able to say in public that she was once enslaved to catholicism and a big time Jesus freak, but then freed herself from it when she realised it was a lot of bollocks.

I'm tempted to say 'typical'; atheists moan about the religiosity of (especially) Americans, and then moan when one proclaims her atheism. Hitchens even stooped to a smarmy comment about not being able to choose your friends in response to her contribution. Christ, as an atheist, I'd say the same about him!

Hitchens might be right about the Dr Johnson quote concerning patriotism and scoundrels when he said Dr Johnson was referring to 'The Patriot Party' and not patriotism per se. According to Hitchens, Dr Johnson 'as a Tory' wouldn't have described patriotism as such. He would have had he meant (as I've always thought), that scoundrels use patriotism as an excuse for their misdeeds.

I think Hitchen's rendering of the Steve Weinberg quote is too convoluted. He should stick to Weinberg's own words which are far clearer and pack a much bigger punch because of their simplicity.

Did Hitchens describe Weinberg as a 'biologist'? I thought he was a physicist.

Other Comments by NMcC

18. Comment #45941 by Strider40 on May 29, 2007 at 5:22 pm

Hey Shine
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, did I? I love a good single malt, often! See the 25 May episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit! (on this site) and then tell me the man isn't fond of his drinkies.
Cheers

Other Comments by Strider40

19. Comment #45945 by kwhitefoot on May 29, 2007 at 5:52 pm

NMcC: I think what annoyed people about the born again atheist woman was that they had come to hear Christopher Hitchens answer questions and she simply wasn't asking one. And why do you put quotation marks around the word beautiful? Anyway an audience in a bookstore listening to a foreign atheist is hardly an American audience in the widest sense, they simply happen to be (mostly?) American citizens.

An almost unrelated point: Christopher Hitchens describes himself as no longer a socialist but note his use of the word solidarity. Americans would do well to ponder the apparent conflict.

Other Comments by kwhitefoot

20. Comment #45947 by Yorker on May 29, 2007 at 6:21 pm

It's always enjoyable to watch and listen to Hitchens, his secret is simple; he entertains. He engages with people and doesn't appear aloof as Dawkins and Dennett do on occasion; he exposes his human failings – smoking, drinking etc. – and avoids the cold, robot-like state that Harris often falls into. These characteristics endear him to an audience who surprise themselves by applauding that which they might boo if voiced by another bullshitter. Because that's what Hitch is; a very knowledgeable bullshitter, one who understands its value and knows how to make the most of its charm; couple that with mastery of avoidance and deflection and you have the essence of his debating skills and appeal.

Yes, his points are repeated as are his jokes, but at least he makes an attempt at humour. The very nature of the religious topic ensures that the same old shit is repeated again and again, the other three do it also, one can't blame Hitch for being similar; he has no option. I must admit I like him because he reminds me of me, but he reminds me even more of my father, indeed, I'm beginning to wonder if we are somehow related since he and my dad were born in the same town and came from historically military roots. I've not yet read Hitchens' latest book because I recently came to the conclusion that I had nothing to gain by reading more anti-religion publications, however, since he has entertained me I'll do him the favour of buying his work, many seem to think it's the best of the latest bunch.

Other Comments by Yorker

21. Comment #45950 by Yorker on May 29, 2007 at 6:38 pm

Comments by NMcC and kwhitefoot

Yes, he made the mistake of calling Weinberg a biologist, or was it it a mistake...I wonder?

A month before this talk Hitchens became an American citizen so he wasn't a foreign atheist. It was probably a wise move on his part, Americans seem to like that, I well remember my American friends urging me to become a citizen also.

Other Comments by Yorker

22. Comment #45953 by kwhitefoot on May 29, 2007 at 7:13 pm

Yorker: the legal nicety of him being a citizen doesn't make him any less foreign. And I very much doubt that his decision to become an American citizen had anything to do with what others might think (whether the others are American or not). I suspect that he was equally renouncing his British citizenship. Much more Orwellian crap from the UK and I might do the same myself (although not in order to become a US citizen; as I am a resident of Norway that would be my first choice.)

Other Comments by kwhitefoot

23. Comment #45954 by Cato on May 29, 2007 at 7:27 pm

Wow, I just discovered fora.tv. This is excellent. I'll be busy for months!

There's also a presentation by Sam Harris on there hosted by The Long Now Foundation. It's called "The View From the End of the World."

http://fora.tv/fora/showthread.php?t=819

Other Comments by Cato

24. Comment #45957 by LeeLeeOne on May 29, 2007 at 7:51 pm

All authors, all speakers, all TEACHERS speak the same speech. Repetition is how you educate the masses. This is probably one of the most liberal introductions, for a smaller group, I have seen for an author in a long time. I fully embrace his US citizenship, not because he is an anti-theist, an atheist, like myself, but because I was born and raised in this US, and it is nice to see we are importing the educated instead of merely exporting our best and our brightest. It is nice to see that we have someone who lives in a country to may still be able to see the first amendment hold true to him as he continues to educate the masses.

Other Comments by LeeLeeOne

25. Comment #45965 by coretemprising on May 29, 2007 at 8:41 pm

popes: "maladjusted elderly virgins"
Priceless!

Other Comments by coretemprising

26. Comment #45971 by bouwe on May 29, 2007 at 9:57 pm

For those not aware of it already, a few RD and Hitch articles (and a whole lot of other good stuff) at:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/index.htm

I have submitted quite a few articles for discussion here but I usually get no response and it doesn't get posted, so for those wishing for more material, this is a good resource I just discovered (no discussion forum though). Oldies but goodies.

Other Comments by bouwe

27. Comment #45986 by NMcC on May 30, 2007 at 1:00 am

kwhitefoot

I put quotation marks around the word beautiful because I was indicating the word was spoken by the person I was speaking off, as is normal. As I did, in fact, with other quoted words in my post.

I certainly didn't mean to disparage the words of Marx himself on religion as I am only too well aware that some of it is beautiful writing.

Incidently, if anyone is interested, the words Hitchens was quoting are from Marx's A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, which he wrote at the age of about 26.

In regard to Hitchens saying he is no longer a Socialist, I don't believe that he ever was a Socialist since as a Trotskyist he was an advocate of capitalism run by the state, state-capitalism, in other words - and run by a dictatorship at that! Also, as to his present views, I have heard him say recently that he is still a Socialist as well as that he is no longer a Socialist - typical Hitchens in other words.

Was the small (it was a small venue) audience not representative of Americans as a whole? Perhaps not. Can you ever really have an audience which is representative of the much vaunted 'melting pot' of American society? Not unless you go out into the street and do a poll of people's views and then force into your venue those who you want to comprise your 'representative' audience.

Other Comments by NMcC

28. Comment #46019 by CJ22 on May 30, 2007 at 3:01 am

To get at the download links on foratv (it's not that obvious):

1/. Click on the link on this page to bring up the foratv page
2/. Click on the image on the foratv page to bring up the video player pop-up
3/. On that page, click on the 'downloads' link in the top-right corner, and that brings up your links. V handy for we ipod users.

Other Comments by CJ22

29. Comment #46071 by doodinthemood on May 30, 2007 at 6:17 am

There should be more examining of the Jesus as Myth idea. In literature and debates.

Other Comments by doodinthemood

30. Comment #46189 by voiceofreason12 on May 30, 2007 at 1:56 pm

Again, excellent job citizen Hitch!

Other Comments by voiceofreason12

31. Comment #46220 by Ragnar0kk on May 30, 2007 at 3:35 pm

here is the direct mp3 link for the lazy :)

http://fora.tv/fora/fora_download.php?cid=969&fid=3992

also hitchens is great, i really enjoy hearing him speak

Other Comments by Ragnar0kk

32. Comment #46241 by Zaphod on May 30, 2007 at 4:33 pm

Hitchens said Steven Weinberg was a biologist when he is in fact a physicist. He most likely knows this and it was just a slip up.

Hitchens pulls no punches. Good stuff.

Other Comments by Zaphod

33. Comment #46243 by Zaphod on May 30, 2007 at 4:36 pm

" 25. Comment #45965 by coretemprising on May 29, 2007 at 8:41 pm
popes: "maladjusted elderly virgins"
Priceless!"

I thought that was hilarious also.

Other Comments by Zaphod

34. Comment #46267 by Spinoza on May 30, 2007 at 5:52 pm

Spinoza and Einstein were NOT "deists" in the sense that the man around 34 minutes says they were.

That's sheer and utter nonsense from an old man who doesn't understand what either of those two great thinkers (both of whom are my greatest "idols" in the most meaningful sense of that word) meant when they used the word "God".

Other Comments by Spinoza

35. Comment #46279 by Homo economicus on May 30, 2007 at 6:37 pm

IS it just me, or am I the only one glad to be in the comfort of my own home listening to Hitchens and not standing next to the people who were asking him questions?

Damn it though I would like to have a Jack Daniels with him.

Other Comments by Homo economicus

36. Comment #46401 by mortiz on May 31, 2007 at 6:02 am

I'm sick of Hitchens' nationalism personally, I wouldn't say I'm a proud Brit (I don't mark myself by my nationality) but his constant bashing of the British institution is somewhat tiresome. I'm not a monarchist, but it's ridiculous to think that the monarchy of this country has any real power these days, it's purely ceremonial, but Hitchens' seems to bang on about how our entire political system is still based around the Queen. Basically they ask the Queen to do stuff and she does it, can you image the uproar if she actually tried to exert any political influence?

Ironically he's a Bush defender, a man who's often said his faith guides policy decisions, but he refuses to criticize that, he'll happily criticize leaders of Muslim countries though who are also religious. Hitchens is a good speaker, and hits the nail on the head when it comes to religion, but he stinks to me as a bit of a hypocrite.


Other Comments by mortiz

37. Comment #46437 by catchy_nick on May 31, 2007 at 8:04 am

"Comment #46401 by mortiz on May 31, 2007 at 6:02 am

I'm sick of Hitchens' nationalism personally, I wouldn't say I'm a proud Brit (I don't mark myself by my nationality) but his constant bashing of the British institution is somewhat tiresome. I'm not a monarchist, but it's ridiculous to think that the monarchy of this country has any real power these days, it's purely ceremonial, but Hitchens' seems to bang on about how our entire political system is still based around the Queen. Basically they ask the Queen to do stuff and she does it, can you image the uproar if she actually tried to exert any political influence?

Ironically he's a Bush defender, a man who's often said his faith guides policy decisions, but he refuses to criticize that, he'll happily criticize leaders of Muslim countries though who are also religious. Hitchens is a good speaker, and hits the nail on the head when it comes to religion, but he stinks to me as a bit of a hypocrite."

He clearly has kid gloves on when he talks about the US and Bush. His position on the latest act of terrorism america is involved in is also despicible and he should be ashamed of himself. On the other hand he is a very charming speaker and right on when it comes to faith. Maybe he can do some good over here (US). A nation full of overly patriotic idiots in love with their land might listen better to someone who has something in common with them. I dont know. I'm tired. Peace

Other Comments by catchy_nick

38. Comment #46612 by Thor on May 31, 2007 at 8:02 pm

Homo economicus,

no, it's not just you - every time I see or hear one of these public discussions or readings I think to myself:
"Why do they always let the crazy people get to the microphones?"

Just to be clear: by that I don't mean religious people, but just your garden variety insecure, pompous, overbearing neurotic idiots - no matter if religous or atheist - who go to such events to talk at lengths about their "journey" or their "issues" or something or other in their life they have "struggled with", notwithstanding the fact that commone sense AND common decency should, if they possessed such qualities, compell them to simply ask a f***ing question and be done with it and not bother Hitchens, and more importantly, the other people present there with embarrasings displays of a total lack of self-control !!

Maybe I am a little harsh here, but this seemed like such a nice event in a little bookstore, beattiful atmosphere... and then you get all these weirdos asking questions. Not all of them, of course, but if you have watched it you know who I mean.

I have the utmost respect for Christopher Hitchens as a writer but I have even more respect for him - or any other writer for that matter - when I see the people he has to put up with at such events.
But I hope he finds some consolation in the current sales figures - the book is doing great.

Other Comments by Thor

39. Comment #46633 by PN.Shreeniwas Aiyer on May 31, 2007 at 11:21 pm

Excellent performance by Christopher Hitchens! It certainly is a good laugh . He may not make the believer think again , he may be preaching to the converted and he may also polarise the issue. He certainly is erudite and sounds honest.

Other Comments by PN.Shreeniwas Aiyer

40. Comment #62011 by dot on August 7, 2007 at 11:50 pm

Here is the direct link for the video of Hitchens at Politics and Prose on 10 May 2007:

file: 2007-05-10_hitchens_politics_prose_384kbps.flv
url: http://fora.tv/fora/fora_download.php?cid=969&fid=3992
size: 156.4MB

It's in crappy Flash Video format.
If you can't play it, try VLC from videolan.org

Other Comments by dot