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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 | Reason : Political | print version Print | Comments

Video A Look at Regent University

Bill Moyer's Journal


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Reposted from:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05112007/watch.html

TRANSCRIPT:

BILL MOYERS: Welcome. Later in the JOURNAL we'll return to the war and its cost, but first, take a look at these pictures.

The other day many Americans observed the National Day of Prayer. Leading up to it, volunteers turned out on the West Lawn of the Capitol to hold a Bible reading marathon. Foreign participants were offered Bibles in languages other than English. In the shadow of the Capitol and blocks from the White House, it was a reminder that the wall between church and state in America more closely resembles Swiss cheese.

Across the Potomac River in Virginia, the cradle of the First Amendment, a familiar figure surely smiled as he beheld this mingling of politics and piety. If he had his way, that wall would come down altogether

Graduation day at Regent University in Virginia.

The commencement speaker charges the 1,000 graduates to go forth and change the world.

MITT ROMNEY: America needs great Americans today, perhaps more than ever. From the beginning there has been evil in the world. Today so many of our children swim in what Peggy Noonan called an "ocean of filth." Pornography and violence poison our music and movies and TV and video games. The Virginia tech shooter like the Columbine shooters before him had drunk from this cesspool.

BILL MOYERS: He's Mitt Romney — Once upon a time, the moderate governor of Massachusetts, supporter of stem cell research, gun control, and choice for women.

But over time people change.

Now he's running for the Republican nomination for president and he's made this pilgrimage to one of the country's most conservative evangelical schools to assure everyone here he is with them. Especially Pat Robertson.

MITT ROMNEY: This university, its students, its alumni an faculty are a testament to Dr. Robertson's dedication to strengthen the pillars of liberty and faith, pillars that sustain our communities and our country.

BILL MOYERS: Talk about an odd couple. Over the years Robertson's mixture of Pentecostal faith-healing,

PAT ROBERTSON: Satan I bind your power.

BILL MOYERS: And far-right ideology have made him one of the country's quotable notables:

PAT ROBERTSON: I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if Chavez thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.

You read the Bible it says this is my land and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he's going to carve it up and give it away, God says "NO."

BILL MOYERS: Pat Robertson founded Regent University "To produce Christian leaders who will make a difference, who will change the world."

PAT ROBERTSON: The idea was to challenge the culture in the areas that are most important to people. The first, of course, was television, and then the theater and journalism, and then, of course beyond that was law, which has such a dramatic effect on everybody's lives.

BILL MOYERS: He's never been coy about his goal of bringing American democracy and its government under God's sway.

PAT ROBERTSON: There was never any intention that our government would be separated from God almighty. Never, never, never in the history of this land did the founders or those that came after them think that was the case.

BILL MOYERS: So what do you do when the Constitution makes no mention of God, and the Bill of Rights ensures freedom for all religions? You set out to change the laws. To have them reflect your interpretation of the Bible on church and state, women's rights, stem-cell research, gay marriage, even when to end life support.

For such a revolution you need lawyers and judges. So as the crown jewel of his university, Pat Robertson created a law school.

PAT ROBERTSON: By the authority vested in me by the Board of Trustees and recommendation of the faculty, I confer upon you the juris doctor degree with all rights, privileges and responsibilities there to pertaining.

PETER MCCLANATHAN: The students that come here come here know that it is a Christian school and that the faculty will be teaching us, they're mostly Christians too. And it's I think one of the more unique aspects is the beginning of class, we have classes that last ten minutes longer than most of the typical classes because there is a period for devotion.

CLASS: Heavenly Father, thou has placed me in a church which thy Son purchased with his own blood. Help me to be true, faithful, chaste. Father thank you for those who have gone before us thank you for the heritage of faith that we see stretching back over the centuries. Now we commit our class to you asking you to use it for your glory in Christ's name, Amen.

BILL MOYERS: Regent Law School is only 20 years old and for the first decade struggled to gain recognition and accreditation. Just 37 percent of its graduates in 1999 passed the bar on the first try. Even today, the school's academic reputation is the butt of some jokes:

BILL MAHER: It's not a hard school to get into. You have to renounce Satan and draw a pirate on a matchbook.

BILL MOYERS: But Regent is determined to have the last laugh. Robertson's team overhauled the curriculum, tightened admission standards, and spent more money on scholarships. The law school is now fully accredited by the American Bar Association.

Seventy-four percent of last year's law class passed the bar the first time around.

This year a Regent team won the American Bar Association's Negotiation competition - previously won by Harvard. Last year a Regent team won another national ABA Competition - previously won by Yale.

ANNOUNCER: Will the candidates for the degree of juris doctor please stand.

BILL MOYERS: The school is proud of its progress and makes no apologies about the blending of Biblical principles and American law in practice. Law School dean, Jeffrey Brauch:

DEAN BRAUCH: It's one thing to have an institutional separation between church and state, which is very important, but it's another thing to say there should be a separation between faith and law or faith and policy. I'm pleased that some of our graduates are going to go and impact public policy through their careers.

BILL MOYERS: The dean has reason to be pleased. Just consider the missionaries Regent has already sent to what the religious right once considered the heart of darkness - the government in Washington. Their website boasted that 150 of the university's students have worked in the Bush administration since 2001.

Many have this woman to thank: Kay Coles James. For four years she ran the Office of Personnel management for President Bush.

Her reach stretched across the entire Executive Branch.

Before her White House assignment, she had been vice president of the Christian lobbying group known as the Family Research Council and dean of the Robertson School of Government at Regent University.

Throughout the Bush administration, the Regent network has spread — offering jobs, mentoring and promotions to bright young religious conservatives in the Department of Labor, Health and Human Services, USAID, Homeland Security, The Drug Enforcement Agency, The Office of the Special Counsel, Senate and House staffs, Commerce, Education, Defense Veterans Affairs, The Air Force, The Army, The CIA, NASA and the Department of Justice.

For the Christian Right these doors open on the promised land, where Biblical law can influence the law of the land.

SPIRO BALLAS: It's not so much that Christianity is in the class, it's really the history and where the law comes form and when you start studying the law it's hard to separate I think that Christian base from the law.

CARLY GAMMILL: The importance to me of having the Biblical foundation in the law is because of my belief that God's law is the highest law. And not that earthly law and you know the law of this world is necessarily supposed to be exactly the same, but just to understand what God's law and what the word of God does have to say about the different issues that affect our culture.

JOSHUA BLAKE: Instead of promoting the individual's liberties necessarily, we are looking at what's good for people as far as these values that are found in the Bible.

BILL MOYERS: Those were the values that motivated Monica Goodling when she graduated from Regent Law, Class of 1999. This is her Web site from her days as a student.

TIMOTHY GRIFFIN: Monica, how we doing...

BILL MOYERS: After graduation, Goodling worked in the war room of the Republican National Committee in the campaign of 2000, doing opposition and attack research with this man - Timothy Griffin - shown in this BBC documentary, "Digging the Dirt."

After the election Goodling and Griffin both wound up in the Justice Department under the new attorney general John Ashcroft.

Their stars rose quickly. Griffin served as a top aide to Karl Rove. Goodling moved up to be senior counsel to Ashcroft's successor, Alberto Gonzales. She also held the portfolio as liaison between the department and the White House. At 33 years old you can't get much more powerful than that.

But her power has landed her smack in the middle of the controversy surrounding the firing of 8 Federal prosecutors. She had been the link to the White House in the hiring and firing of Justice Department lawyers, what's now a fast-evolving scandal.

SEN. LEAHY: What was Monica Goodling's role in the process of evaluating U.S. attorneys and choosing U.S. attorneys for termination?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Senator, I don't know of everything that she did in connection with this issue. Her job at the department was senior counselor. She worked - she was also the White House liaison. She worked on budget issues and special projects. She, in essence, supported Mr. Sampson.

BILL MOYERS: Gonzales forgot to mention the order he signed last year giving his former chief of staff and Monica Goodling - both of whom were in close contact with the White House - the extraordinary power to hire and fire more than 135 political appointees.

REP. JOHNSON: Is it correct that she-

ATTY. GEN. GONZALES: was involved in -

REP. JOHNSON: She was involved in making hiring and firing decisions pertaining to DOJ career and non-career personnel. Is that correct?

ATTY. GEN. GONZALES: Well, let me just say that she was involved with respect to political appointees. Now, with respect to career appointees, there has been some fairly serious allegations made with respect to her role in that. And as has already been made public, because of the seriousness of those allegations, that matter has been referred for an investigation.

BILL MOYERS: Follow the emails and you pick up Monica Goodling's trail in both the dismissal of the prosecutors and in the choice of their highly partisan replacements.

Remember her old colleague from the war room, Timothy Griffin? She helped him become the new U.S. attorney in Arkansas.

Congress is now investigating to what extent the prosecutors were subjected to political pressure.

REP. JOHNSON: If in fact there was partisan political tests that were applied in the hiring of those US attorneys what impact do you believe that would have on career professionals in the department?

JAMES COMEY: That is the most, in my view, the most serious thing that I've heard come up in this entire controversy.

BILL MOYERS: Former Deputy Attorney General James Comey left the Department of Justice in 2005.

JAMES COMEY: You just cannot do that. You can't hire assistant US attorneys based on political affiliation again because it deprives the department of its lifeblood which is the ability to stand up and have juries of all stripes believe what you say. And have sheriffs and judges and jailers and the people we deal with trust the Department of Justice.

BILL MOYERS: Monica Goodling has yet to answer for herself. She invoked her 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination and resigned from the Justice Department on Good Friday.

House investigators will give her immunity and expect her to testify in the weeks ahead. The pundits and paparazzi are in waiting.

PRESS MONTAGE: And now that you've got an underling or associate ot whatever you want to call Monica Goodling...

It's just what Washington needs another Monica...

Â…Her mother was commenting to the press and she said that Monica's told her to say no comment to everyone she gets...

BILL MOYERS: Monica Goodling's meteoric rise and fall put Regent in the spotlight for merging the religious faithful with the party faithful.

But it hasn't dimmed the passion here for its mission or the power of its network. One of its star professors now is former Attorney General John Ashcroft. This son of a Pentecostal preacher brought prayer meetings and Bible study to the halls of justice when he was Attorney General.

PRAYER: "And Lord we also thank you for your servant, John David Ashcroft."

BILL MOYERS: It was Ashcroft who quietly began changing the Justice Department's hiring practices. Political appointees - instead of career attorneys - were put in charge of hiring in the Civil Rights division. Soon race-based discrimination cases began to be supplanted by cases of religious discrimination.

Now, in addition to lobbying in Washington, Ashcroft is helping to recruit and train a new crop of conservative and religious young people to serve the Lord in places of influence.

REGENT UNIVERSITY WEB PROMO, ASHCROFT: I'm excited about Regent University because it's a place where you can pursue learning and the truth with real intensity and God has not been placed off limits.

BILL MOYERS: Carly Gammill is one of the many promising students to graduate last week.

CARLY GAMMILL: Part of the goal of many of us who are going out from this institution from here on to make it clear and accurate what it really means to be a Christian leader to change the world, which is not to indoctrinate anyone but to share the truth and to offer the truth and to rely on the truth in the way that we handle our lives as an example to others.

ANNOUNCER: "Carly D. Gammill.

BILL MOYERS: Gammill is going to work for one of Regent's best-known alumni.

Jay Sekulow earned his PhD from Regent arguing that it's okay for judges to decide cases on the basis of their religious beliefs.

Sekulow now heads up Pat Robertson's American Center for Law and Justice, and was hand-picked by the White House to be an advisor on judicial nominations.

Last month, when the ascendant majority on the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on "partial birth" abortion. Sekulow declared victory for the religious right and for Regent.

JAY SEKULOW: Well the end result is that a lot of the findings of fact that the Court made in NY, the finding of fact in our favor about the horrific nature of this procedure were incorporated in the Supreme Court decision that came out today.

BILL MOYERS: Sekulow's legal group wants to roll back other Supreme Court rulings that uphold gay rights and the separation of church and state. They'll have the help of Regent's finest.

CARLY GAMMILL: I intend to help further the administration of justice and to do justice. And I believe in absolute truth, and I believe in absolutes. Not grey, you know, not relative truth but absolute truth. And that's what God's word is.

BILL MOYERS: So Mitt Romney and Pat Robertson may have seemed an odd couple here this past weekend. But they are a happy couple. They have seen the future...right there in front of them

REV. PAT ROBERTSON: I am sure you will achieve greatness. We have on the platform the Attorney General of Virginia, one of our graduates, we have at least two of our graduates who are now judges, we have others who are elected officials at various levels, all over this area. We have many who are superintendents of school and principals of school.

BILL MOYERS: The Reverend Robertson couldn't be happier. His charges are going out to make the world over...in his image.

REV. PAT ROBERTSON: We have people in all walks of life who are creating a world that is better. So once again, I charge you seek greatness through service. God bless you.

Comments 1 - 50 of 60 |

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1. Comment #46147 by doodinthemood on May 30, 2007 at 11:37 am

Frightening.

Other Comments by doodinthemood

2. Comment #46149 by thebigredmachine on May 30, 2007 at 11:38 am

As someone who has attended one of the US's top 20 law schools (if you consider US News and World Report a valid judge), I'm happy to say that in my experience, no one (outside of the white house, apparently) takes a degree from Regent seriously. Though I admit I don't exactly take surveys, I have in fact yet to come across a graduate. I can only imagine my reaction if some day a resume were to slide across my desk with Regent proudly emblazoned near the top. The thought of this school gaining legitimacy is truly horrifying.

Other Comments by thebigredmachine

3. Comment #46150 by Kmullen on May 30, 2007 at 11:40 am

too scary

Other Comments by Kmullen

4. Comment #46152 by oarwhat on May 30, 2007 at 11:47 am

And these are the same people who would say Hesbala, and Hamas, and such are evil. I find that Ironic.Further proof there is no god.

Other Comments by oarwhat

5. Comment #46155 by firemancarl on May 30, 2007 at 11:57 am

 avatarEeeeeegad! The woman who they interview towards the end sums up everything that is wrong with Regent. "Finding the truth"? I guess she didn't she still thinks we were founded on a xtian platfrom. And here I thought it was more along the lines of Spartan law, go figure.


To add a bit to what thebigredmachine said, when I lived in Virginia Beach VA (where Regent is located) people just rolled thier eyes everytime someone brought up that "school". The look was "pay absolutley no more attention to anything this person says".

Other Comments by firemancarl

6. Comment #46157 by Goodwithwood on May 30, 2007 at 12:04 pm

 avatarBoth Regent and Liberty Universities pose one of the greatest threats this country has ever faced. Their blatantly stated goals are to replace our constitution with their interpretation of the bible (Treason). Ignoring these people will have catastrophic consequences for the US and the whole planet.

I'm afraid

GWW

Other Comments by Goodwithwood

7. Comment #46158 by BaronOchs on May 30, 2007 at 12:11 pm

 avatarUniversities are supposed to be places where you learn to think for yourself. Regent and Liberty are insults to the idea of a university, they're merely grooming an army of fanatics.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

8. Comment #46164 by Quine on May 30, 2007 at 12:28 pm

 avatarAbsolute truth from a self-contradictory collection of iron age scribblings that have been imperfectly copied and translated over the centuries????? Frightening indeed.

Other Comments by Quine

9. Comment #46165 by don malvado on May 30, 2007 at 12:33 pm

CARLY GAMMILL: I intend to help further the administration of justice and to do justice. And I believe in absolute truth, and I believe in absolutes. Not grey, you know, not relative truth but absolute truth. And that's what God's word is.

My jaw dropped at this point. The idea that she can be a competent lawyer and come out with something like that is mind blowing.

Other Comments by don malvado

10. Comment #46171 by epeeist on May 30, 2007 at 12:47 pm

 avatarComment #46165 by don malvado

CARLY GAMMILL: I intend to help further the administration of justice and to do justice. And I believe in absolute truth, and I believe in absolutes. Not grey, you know, not relative truth but absolute truth. And that's what God's word is.

My jaw dropped at this point.

Why? You are either saved or you will burn in hell for eternity, there are no other choices.

Other Comments by epeeist

11. Comment #46172 by bhima on May 30, 2007 at 12:48 pm

its been said before, but i gotta add to this:

This was the most frightening mini-documentary i have ever seen. Herein lies the destruction of the US constitution...where a school can be accredited by our system, yet totally want to dismantle that said system with the ABSOLUTE TRUTH WHICH IS GOD'S WORD! I'm just lucky my bride to be is a virgin, otherwise i'd have to stone her on her pop's doorstep.

horrifying.

Other Comments by bhima

12. Comment #46176 by Duff on May 30, 2007 at 1:04 pm

The next time anyone suggests Dawkins and Hitchens are too unkind to the sweet religious folk, remember this documentary. What is really interesting is that Moyers, who has always been an apologist for religion, seems to be genuinely offended. This is a very good thing, if it is true.
No more gently gently, folks.

Other Comments by Duff

13. Comment #46184 by voiceofreason12 on May 30, 2007 at 1:39 pm

This was horrific. These people are stepping on the constitution of the United States in trying to tear down the wall of separatation that are founding fathers worked so hard to build. There is no freedom of choice with religious fascists in political office making decisions based on their "absolute truth."

Perhaps next they will institute laws for having homosexuals and people who don't keep the sabbath stoned to death as commanded by their invisible maniac in the sky.

Other Comments by voiceofreason12

14. Comment #46195 by jaytee_555 on May 30, 2007 at 2:09 pm

Sickening, and terrifying.

Is there anyone out there who has some real concrete ideas about how to oppose this madness, or who can tell me (a Brit) how I can support whatever organisations there may be who are trying to reverse this disgusting trend?

Other Comments by jaytee_555

15. Comment #46199 by Logicel on May 30, 2007 at 2:26 pm

 avatar...it was a reminder that the wall between church and state in America more closely resembles Swiss cheese.
______

More like grilled, melted Swiss cheese.

Other Comments by Logicel

16. Comment #46207 by chbg21808 on May 30, 2007 at 2:57 pm

That is one of the most vile things I have ever watched and more scary than any horror film.

I think Richard Dawkins was more right than even he may have suspected, when he said America may be heading toward its own "Taliban".

Imagine being in a court room accused of a crime and your an atheist or gay and one of these lawyers is prosecuting or indeed defending you.

How long before sin is put on the books as an objective crime?

Watching this, left a horrible sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Is something being done to overthrow this garbage or what?

This does seem to be a well funded and well organised effort to "tear down the wall".

Other Comments by chbg21808

17. Comment #46218 by Healing One on May 30, 2007 at 3:32 pm

CARLY GAMMILL: I intend to help further the administration of justice and to do justice. And I believe in absolute truth, and I believe in absolutes. Not grey, you know, not relative truth but absolute truth. And that's what God's word is.

"God's word is absolute truth." She is barking mad. She has been programmed to frame debates about the moral status of embryos, fetuses, stem cells, and non-human animals in terms of whether or not these entities possess immaterial souls.

The strong intuitive pull of dualism makes it difficult for people to accept what Francis Crick called "the astonishing hypothesis." Dualism is mistaken — mental life emerges from physical processes. People resist the astonishing hypothesis in ways that can have considerable social implications. For one thing, debates about the moral status of embryos, fetuses, stem cells, and non-human animals are sometimes framed in terms of whether or not these entities possess immaterial souls. For instance, in their 2003 report (Being Human: Readings from the President's Council on Bioethics), the President's Council described people as follows: "We have both corporeal and noncorporeal aspects. We are embodied spirits and inspirited bodies (or, if you will, embodied minds and minded bodies)."

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bloom07/bloom07_index.html

Jay Sekulow, Regent's legal graduates like Carly Gammill, and the President's Council on Bioethics belief in a immaterial soul has resulted in a supreme court decision banning "partial birth" abortion.

Sekulow now heads up Pat Robertson's American Center for Law and Justice, and was hand-picked by the White House to be an advisor on judicial nominations.

Last month, when the ascendant majority on the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on "partial birth" abortion. Sekulow declared victory for the religious right and for Regent.

JAY SEKULOW: Well the end result is that a lot of the findings of fact that the Court made in NY, the finding of fact in our favor about the horrific nature of this procedure were incorporated in the Supreme Court decision that came out today.


There is no medical procedure called "partial birth" abortion. It was coined by pro-life congressman Charles T. Canady.

Since it was first coined in 1995 by pro-life congressman Charles T. Canady, the term "partial birth abortion" has been used in numerous state and federal bills and laws, although the legal definition of the term is not always the same. In the 2000 Supreme Court case of Stenberg v. Carhart, a Nebraska law banning "partial-birth abortion" was ruled unconstitutional, in part because the language defining "partial-birth abortion" was deemed vague.[9] In 2006, the Supreme Court in Gonzales v. Carhart found that the 2003 act "departs in material ways" from the Nebraska law and that it pertains only to a specific abortion procedure, intact dilation and extraction.[2] The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act defines "partial-birth abortion" as follows:

" An abortion in which the person performing the abortion, deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus. (18 U.S. Code 1531)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-Birth_Abortion_Ban_Act

The law omits an exception for the health of the woman (as opposed to the life of the woman) reversing the precedent that was set by Roe v. Wade.

It's back to self-abortion attempts and hospital abortion floors. Thank you Justice Alito, Alberto Gonzales, Regent University, Pat Robertson, Mitt Romney, and George Bush.


Other Comments by Healing One

18. Comment #46221 by Zaphod on May 30, 2007 at 3:37 pm

 avatarHorrible and disgusting.

The fact that Pat Robertson and his university have an agenda other than learning offends me greatly.

A university is supposed to educate people but also get them to think for themselves. It is not meant to produce Pat Robertson clones and Christian sheep.

Pat Robertson wants history re-wrote. Laws changed. All based on his illogical faith nonsense.

Other Comments by Zaphod

19. Comment #46222 by godisanidiot on May 30, 2007 at 3:40 pm

I just saw an army of babbling products of an indoctrination machine, very dangerous indeed.

Other Comments by godisanidiot

20. Comment #46224 by MIND_REBEL on May 30, 2007 at 3:41 pm

 avatarReligion is stupid.

Other Comments by MIND_REBEL

21. Comment #46225 by Newton30 on May 30, 2007 at 3:42 pm

 avatar
Is something being done to overthrow this garbage or what?

Get in line you atheist cats! We're going to war against the legions of theist sheep!

Other Comments by Newton30

22. Comment #46226 by DingoDave on May 30, 2007 at 3:46 pm

 avatarHow can this place be described as anything but a Christian Madrassa?
How many places of 'learning' are there like this in the good old USA?
This is one very frightening documentary.

Other Comments by DingoDave

23. Comment #46230 by steve99 on May 30, 2007 at 4:03 pm

 avatarI really don't understand how this works. A lawyer is supposed to have refined analytical skills - the ability to look for inconsistences and loopholes. Knowing all this, how can they possibly consider the Bible a foundation for anything?

Other Comments by steve99

24. Comment #46233 by lt_zippy2 on May 30, 2007 at 4:14 pm

Just out of interest are there any schools ANYWHERE that do courses in atheology?

Other Comments by lt_zippy2

25. Comment #46236 by chbg21808 on May 30, 2007 at 4:19 pm

QUOTE... "23. Comment #46230 by steve99 on May 30, 2007 at 4:03 pm I really don't understand how this works. A lawyer is supposed to have refined analytical skills... CLOSE QUOTE

That's no guarantee of sanity steve99:

Look at ex lawyer 'Phillip E. Johnson' One of the masterminds behind the Wedge Strategy, which was developed as an attempt to overthrow (scientific) materialism - authored by the Discovery Institute ... a creationist/Intelligent Design organisation. Indeed, Johnson is the father of Intelligent Design.

Other Comments by chbg21808

26. Comment #46239 by HedlesBabey on May 30, 2007 at 4:29 pm

 avatarTo those asking about organizations to support, the two in the US doing the most work to fight this sort of thing are:

Center For Inquiry (Dawkins is affiliated)
www.centerforinquiry.net

Americans United for Separation of Church & State
www.au.org

These two often work together both with government and in courts

Other Comments by HedlesBabey

27. Comment #46247 by chbg21808 on May 30, 2007 at 4:43 pm

The founder of the Center For Inquiry is the brilliant Paul Kurtz... Who was largely responsible for the secularization of humanism:

"Kurtz was largely responsible for the secularization of humanism. Before Kurtz embraced the term "secular humanism," which had received wide publicity through fundamentalist Christians in the 1980s, humanism was more widely perceived as a religion (or a pseudoreligion) that did not include the supernatural. This can be seen in the first article of the original Humanist Manifesto which refers to "Religious Humanists" and by Charles and Clara Potter's influential 1930 book Humanism: A New Religion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kurtz

The Center For Inquiry also do an excellent podcast radio show called Point of Enquiry.

I also highly recommend everyone to check out the writings of Lysander Spooner
http://www.lysanderspooner.org/




Other Comments by chbg21808

28. Comment #46254 by DingoDave on May 30, 2007 at 5:01 pm

 avatarAnother worthwhile organisation to check out is the 'Freedom From Religion Foundation', headed up by Dan Barker, an ex fundamentalist minister.
You can find them here.
http://ffrf.org/

Other Comments by DingoDave

29. Comment #46260 by LeeLeeOne on May 30, 2007 at 5:26 pm

 avatarFor those persons of all christian and non-christian beliefs, including those of us who are atheists, we ALL need to be afraid... very afraid. This video is jaw dropping, stomach churning, and mind boggling. Obviously these graduates, these teachers, these administrators were never taught, "Life is best lived in moderation, too much of a good thing will kill you." And... "You'd better watch what you wish for, you just might get it." Are we seeing the beginning of the end of Constitution of the United States?

Other Comments by LeeLeeOne

30. Comment #46261 by MelM on May 30, 2007 at 5:26 pm

Anti-U.S. and anti-Western Civilization
In terms of it's destructive scope and it's power to actually achieve it's goals, the Dominionist movement is the biggest threat to the U.S. in our history and a complete repudiation of Western Civilization. (In my view, Western Civ is based on ancient Greek literature, art, science, and philosophy; religion is a cancer on Western Civ which has been more or less destructive or in remission right from the beginning. Ditto for the U.S. All cultures are beset by religion; the distinctive thing that constitutes the West is the rational, scientific perspective coming from the Greeks.)

The wall isn't like Swiss Cheese--yet
The wall of separattion is still mostly holding. These folks want to break it down but there are so many court decisions on the books that it'll be hard unless they can corrupt the courts or skip the courts via court-stripping laws--neither one of which have they been able to do yet in an amount that is decisive.

The U.S. is not and never was a "democracy"
One sees a shocking mentality these days. The idea is that since we have a "democracy", the party in power should be able to do anything it wants without the courts getting in the way. Some have forgotten that the courts are here to protect us from the government including the power of the majority. One should be able to challenge any government action or law; else, why even have a Bill of Rights. I don't remember a time in my life when I didn't understand this basic idea about the U.S. gov and I'm shocked to find people who don't understand it.

Triffids building thier army along the wall
Although the wall is still mostly holding, I see an "Army of God" bulding up like Triffids on the other side. If the Dominionist movement isn't cooled off, like the Triffids, it'll break the wall down.

Expose the Dominionist movement
I don't think most Americans understand what the Dominionists want. So, just exposing the movement may help to stop it. An important book (now in paperback) is Kindom Coming by Michelle Goldberg.
Another book that I'm reading now is Liars for Jesus by Chris Rodda. She's rebutting in detail the mess that some wingnut Christian writers have made of American history and are pushing in religious circles and on the Internet. A new book that looks interesting is The Jesus Machine by Dan Gilgoff. Certainly the "New Atheists" are part of the Culture War but I don't have an estimate of their impact.

Expose the "Bible Literacy" scam
For those worried because the "Bible Literacy" Trojan horses are already getting into public (secular) schools (this is a genuine hole in the wall), a review (by a textbook reviewing organization) of "The Bible and Its Influence" book is coming with the conclusion: "an outrageous fraud." I will probably comment on this later after I've seen the review--not all of which is written yet.

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31. Comment #46266 by Goodwithwood on May 30, 2007 at 5:50 pm

 avatarMeIM
Liars for Jesus looks like a good book. Thanks.

GWW

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32. Comment #46269 by arthursanford on May 30, 2007 at 5:59 pm

Funny how the christians begin their careers in government as mud-diggers. Apparently, it is God's will for us to become Republican party employees through faith in his only son, Jesus Christ, and a piece of paper from the Regent University degree mill.

As it happens, years ago I took two classes from Regent because I needed certain credits to teach special education at a state high school. Today I find it gross that a taxpayer supported school would support Regent. The classes were the worst education experience ever. Half the time they babbled about "God's Will" and the other half I was trying to figure out what they were doing and how to submit my assignments. They claim to have never recieved any-- a lie, in my opinion. I complained to the professor and she told me that they had done everything right and I everything wrong, and that after having said that they did not expect to hear from me. The christians are so meek and humble, you know.

I never responded and quit my lame job. But I feel that I made the right decision. My vindication has come from this community so apt to expose Robertson's lies.

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33. Comment #46270 by MelM on May 30, 2007 at 6:00 pm

An orgainization that's on the front lines against Creationism in the U.S.--and has been for years--is the "National Center for Science Education" ( NCSE).
You can sign up for a weekly email update; I've found it invaluable in keeping up with the legal situation about Creationism.

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34. Comment #46277 by MelM on May 30, 2007 at 6:25 pm

Further note on "Liars for Jesus".
This is the first of a projected 3 volume work. If successful, she'll undercut the basis for the "Christian Nation" propaganda that the wingnuts are counting on.

Further note on "The Bible and Its Influence"
This book is from the "Bible Literacy Project" which claims--and you have to dig to find this little "tip off"--that the Bible is the foundational document of Western Civilization--an absurd idea, but one they believe they can get away with while spouting spin about "literacy". So, there is wingnut science, wingnut American history, and now, wingnut Western history. They will corrupt (= destroy) every domain of knowledge to fit their agenda. It just takes my breath away when I stand back and grasp how destructive this movement really is.

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35. Comment #46285 by k1mgy on May 30, 2007 at 7:08 pm

 avatarOthers have echoed my own reaction to this Moyer's piece: I am sickened and frightened by it.

Romney is a fraud, and a hack who will say anything to be elected. He was "just looking for a race to enter" prior to winning a term as Massachusetts governor and used his position to provide a stage on which to gain further attention.

Sucking around a psychopath like Robertson and the dregs of the "religious right" in this country is reason enough that Willard Mitt ought to be discounted, let alone his own bizarre belief system which, only recently, finally admitted that blacks were human beings.

I shudder to think what may happen to justice in America should there be, as the prissy Regent graduate extoled, "no grey areas" (speak for yourself), but instead, "absolutes". May she be the first victim of what her indoctrination will wreak.

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36. Comment #46299 by MelM on May 30, 2007 at 8:53 pm

Asscroft: a bad man
I didn't know that Asscroft went to Regent. He's a special bastard because of his fight against Oregon's "Death With Dignity Act" (doctor assisted suicide). I've seen two people close to me die of cancer and I fully grasp that keeping people from using their right to end their own life is just another piece of religion's filthy rotten "Culture of Misery." Asscroft got his butt kicked by one court but Gonzales is trying again.

Kevorkian will help. Let's push.
With Dr. Jack Kevorkian getting out of jail on June 1, he'll be fighting to get assisted suicide laws passed in the states. It's a good time to emial your representative in your state legislature asking that he/she get off their butts and pass humane doctor assisted suicide laws.

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37. Comment #46309 by Goodwithwood on May 30, 2007 at 10:04 pm

 avatar"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

Obi-wan Kenobi

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38. Comment #46338 by Shuggy on May 31, 2007 at 1:27 am

 avatar
Across the Potomac River in Virginia, the cradle of the First Amendment, a familiar figure surely smiled as he beheld this mingling of politics and piety. If he had his way, that wall would come down altogether

I can't see the video; to whom is he referring? Not anybody dead, since the dead don't "surely smile" (except insofar as worms have eaten their lips).

Other Comments by Shuggy

39. Comment #46343 by pkmusic on May 31, 2007 at 1:55 am

 avatarIt's scary that these people have already gotten high-ranking jobs in the white house. If not for that information, I would just think "oh no one will ever take them seriously, so it's not so bad". But this video is proof that it really is as bad as it sounds. It's time to stop appeasing these fanatics and put an end to their legitimacy.

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40. Comment #46359 by tieInterceptor on May 31, 2007 at 3:05 am

 avatarThis video is freaking scary,

they should change the name from Regent University to

Jesus Trojan Horse University. "Infiltrate democracy and burn it from within".

I hope it's not too late and someone finds the their Achilles heel ;)

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41. Comment #46366 by Canuck#1 on May 31, 2007 at 3:26 am

As a former fundamentalist I know how their minds work......today the U.S.A....tomorrow the world. As a Canadian and next-door-neighbour we would be target #1.......so my support is twofold....to support the efforts to stop this obcenity and to save my country. Doesn't their self-righteousness make you want to "throw up".

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42. Comment #46387 by graham513 on May 31, 2007 at 4:59 am

I work at a Xtian Teaching Radio Station and I hear Jay Sekulow's ACLJ Program every day always endorsing Regent University. Any time a controversial court case arises they completely attack everything that is un-xtian about it. You cant even guess how many times I heard the name Terry Shiavo when that fiasco was going on. Xtians may be completely ignorant in a lot of ways but let me tell you they are viciously smart in others. They know what they have to do to change this country and this country (not me) is electing people into office that fill their positions with their xtian clones. I will shed many a happy tear if I am so lucky as to see the day that school is nothing more than dust.

Other Comments by graham513

43. Comment #46391 by kc091887 on May 31, 2007 at 5:24 am

Vile.

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44. Comment #46395 by discipline on May 31, 2007 at 5:40 am

Frightening, indeed, but not surprising to those who follow the Religious Right.

And it gets worse. The other evangelical "university," Liberty University, just built a state-of-the-art building that exactly replicates the U.S. Supreme Court chambers -- for the express purpose of training Christian lawyers to argue Constitutional law.

If you Europeans, Canadians, Australians and American intelligensia didn't know about this, then it's time to wake up. America is clearly on the road to a fundamentalist theocracy.

And with the growing popularity of Christian homeschooling and the Christian infiltration of public schools, we're guaranteed generations more radical "dominionists." These people are well-funded and ultra-agressive, a dangerous combination.

The scientific rationalists on this board need to form relationships with the other types of secularists -- the libertarian/objectivist atheists, the Unitarians, Christian moderates like Chris Hedges, Al Gore, Bill Moyer, Jimmy Carter, etc., pagans, pantheists, punks, whatever! -- if we don't, then the U.S. will accelerate its downward spiral. And that won't be a pretty sight.

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45. Comment #46414 by SteveN on May 31, 2007 at 6:41 am

 avatar
The other evangelical "university," Liberty University, just built a state-of-the-art building that exactly replicates the U.S. Supreme Court chambers -- for the express purpose of training Christian lawyers to argue Constitutional law.
Good grief! If this is indeed true it's very, very frightening.

Other Comments by SteveN

46. Comment #46435 by Rtambree on May 31, 2007 at 7:46 am

37. Comment #46309 by Goodwithwood on May 30, 2007 at 10:04 pm

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

Obi-wan Kenobi

I'm willing to bet that was one of Tom Stoppard's contributions in his rewrite of the Sith script. It sounds too sophisticated for Lucas.

Other Comments by Rtambree

47. Comment #46443 by Phaeonix on May 31, 2007 at 8:35 am

 avatarIt is all true... they are forging an army intent on a theocracy.

I have changed my entire career path based on the last year, seeing what is happening to the WALL in my country has left me to leave my beloved science and research for a career in law...

I have officially given up pursuit of graduate studies in Evolutionary Psychology to pursue a law degree...

Other Comments by Phaeonix

48. Comment #46450 by Machoduck on May 31, 2007 at 9:31 am

 avatar"And these are the same people who would say Hesbala, and Hamas, and such are evil. I find that Ironic.Further proof there is no god."

Well, that's the whole doubble morality of (religious) faith. It claims to be only good but allows the evil done in it's name, and claims to be the only and ultimate truth, without ANY empirical evidence or rational thinking behind it...

Other Comments by Machoduck

49. Comment #46452 by wagnerpe on May 31, 2007 at 9:36 am

These people are a cancerous growth on our society. We need to wake up and realize that graduates coming out of this university are becoming government cronies that are intent on hacking away at the integrity of our democracy.

People are actually saying that judges should be able to rule based on their own personal faith (provided it's Christianity, of course). Imagine people going to jail for practicing sodomy, witchcraft, or countless other imaginary "crimes" that are in the Bible. These people pose a serious and real threat to our democracy. As an American, I'm terrified.

Other Comments by wagnerpe

50. Comment #46481 by stephenray on May 31, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Listening to stuff like that - people taking it as axiomatic, as natural as breathing, that they ought to subvert the democratic process in order to further their religious goals - should make people realise that RD, Hitchens and Harris are not being alarmist when they finger religious as a great danger. The people interviewed and mentioned here are not crazy, as for example would be the funeral protesters, just dogmatic.

I honestly don't know why Hollywood bothers making horror films. You guys are living one over there. A clown for president and rabid faithheads ready to scavenge what they can like pigeons in Trafalgar Square.

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