Skip to Main Content (access key 1)
Skip to Search (access key 2)
Skip to Search GO (access key 3)
Skip to comments (access key 4)
Skip to navigation (access key 5)
Skip to top of page (access key 6)
Wednesday, May 30, 2007 | Reason : Backlash | print version Print | Comments

Document Why Do Some People Resist Science?

by Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg, Edge

Thanks to Brian Coughlan for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bloom07/bloom07_index.html

The developmental data suggest that resistance to science will arise in children when scientific claims clash with early emerging, intuitive expectations. This resistance will persist through adulthood if the scientific claims are contested within a society, and will be especially strong if there is a non-scientific alternative that is rooted in common sense and championed by people who are taken as reliable and trustworthy. This is the current situation in the United States with regard to the central tenets of neuroscience and of evolutionary biology. These clash with intuitive beliefs about the immaterial nature of the soul and the purposeful design of humans and other animals — and, in the United States, these intuitive beliefs are particularly likely to be endorsed and transmitted by trusted religious and political authorities. Hence these are among the domains where Americans' resistance to science is the strongest.

WHY DO SOME PEOPLE RESIST SCIENCE?
By Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg


paul skolnick

PAUL BLOOM is a psychologist at Yale University and the author of Descartes' Baby. DEENA SKOLNICK WEISBERG is a doctoral candidate in psychology at Yale University.

Paul Bloom's Edge Bio Page
Deena Skolnick Weisberg's Edge Bio Page

WHY DO SOME PEOPLE RESIST SCIENCE?

It is no secret that many American adults reject some scientific ideas. In a 2005 Pew Trust poll, for instance, 42% of respondents said that they believed that humans and other animals have existed in their present form since the beginning of time. A substantial minority of Americans, then, deny that evolution has even taken place, making them more radical than "Intelligent Design" theorists, who deny only that natural selection can explain complex design. But evolution is not the only domain in which people reject science: Many believe in the efficacy of unproven medical interventions, the mystical nature of out-of-body experiences, the existence of supernatural entities such as ghosts and fairies, and the legitimacy of astrology, ESP, and divination.

There are two common assumptions about the nature of this resistance. First, it is often assumed to be a particularly American problem, explained in terms of the strong religious beliefs of many American citizens and the anti-science leanings of the dominant political party. Second, the problem is often characterized as the result of insufficient exposure to the relevant scientific facts, and hence is best addressed with improved science education.

We believe that these assumptions, while not completely false, reflect a misunderstanding of the nature of this phenomenon. While cultural factors are plainly relevant, American adults' resistance to scientific ideas reflects universal facts about what children know and how children learn. If this is right, then resistance to science cannot be simply addressed through more education; something different is needed.

What children know

The main source of resistance to scientific ideas concerns what children know prior to their exposure to science. The last several decades of developmental psychology has made it abundantly clear that humans do not start off as "blank slates." Rather, even one year-olds possess a rich understanding of both the physical world (a "naïve physics") and the social world (a "naïve psychology"). Babies know that objects are solid, that they persist over time even when they are out of sight, that they fall to the ground if unsupported, and that they do not move unless acted upon. They also understand that people move autonomously in response to social and physical events, that they act and react in accord with their goals, and that they respond with appropriate emotions to different situations.

These intuitions give children a head start when it comes to understanding and learning about objects and people. But these intuitions also sometimes clash with scientific discoveries about the nature of the world, making certain scientific facts difficult to learn. As Susan Carey once put it, the problem with teaching science to children is "not what the student lacks, but what the student has, namely alternative conceptual frameworks for understanding the phenomena covered by the theories we are trying to teach."

Children's belief that unsupported objects fall downwards, for instance, makes it difficult for them to see the world as a sphere — if it were a sphere, the people and things on the other side should fall off. It is not until about eight or nine years of age that children demonstrate a coherent understanding of a spherical Earth, and younger children often distort the scientific understanding in systematic ways. Some deny that people can live all over the Earth's surface, and, when asked to draw the Earth or model it with clay, some children depict it as a sphere with a flattened top or as a hollow sphere that people live inside.

In some cases, there is such resistance to science education that it never entirely sticks, and foundational biases persist into adulthood. A classic study by Michael McCloskey and his colleagues tested college undergraduates' intuitions about basic physical motions, such as the path that a ball will take when released from a curved tube. Many of the undergraduates retained a common-sense Aristotelian theory of object motion; they predicted that the ball would continue to move in a curved motion, choosing B over A below.

 a and b loops

An interesting addendum is that while education does not shake this bias, real-world experience can suffice. In another study, undergraduates were asked about the path that water would take out of a curved hose. This corresponds to an event that most people have seen, and few believed that the water would take a curved path.

Our intuitive psychology also contributes to resistance to science. One significant bias is that children naturally see the world in terms of design and purpose. For instance, four year-olds insist that everything has a purpose, including lions ("to go in the zoo") and clouds ("for raining"), a propensity that Deborah Kelemen has dubbed "promiscuous teleology." Additionally, when asked about the origin of animals and people, children spontaneously tend to provide and to prefer creationist explanations.

Just as children's intuitions about the physical world make it difficult for them to accept that the Earth is a sphere, their psychological intuitions about agency and design make it difficult for them to accept the processes of evolution.

One of the most interesting aspects of our common-sense psychology is dualism, the belief that minds are fundamentally different from brains. This belief comes naturally to children. Preschool children will claim that the brain is responsible for some aspects of mental life, typically those involving deliberative mental work, such as solving math problems. But preschoolers will also claim that the brain isn't involved in a host of other activities, such as pretending to be a kangaroo, loving one's brother, or brushing one's teeth. Similarly, when told about a brain transplant from a boy to a pig, they believe that you get a very smart pig, but one with pig beliefs and pig desires. For young children, then, much of mental life is not linked to the brain.

The strong intuitive pull of dualism makes it difficult for people to accept what Francis Crick called "the astonishing hypothesis." Dualism is mistaken — mental life emerges from physical processes. People resist the astonishing hypothesis in ways that can have considerable social implications. For one thing, debates about the moral status of embryos, fetuses, stem cells, and non-human animals are sometimes framed in terms of whether or not these entities possess immaterial souls. For instance, in their 2003 report (Being Human: Readings from the President's Council on Bioethics), the President's Council described people as follows: "We have both corporeal and noncorporeal aspects. We are embodied spirits and inspirited bodies (or, if you will, embodied minds and minded bodies)."

In addition, certain proposals about the role of imaging data in criminal trials assume a strong form of Cartesian dualism. Some have argued that if one could show that a person's brain is involved in an act, then the person himself or herself is not responsible, an excuse that Michael Gazzaniga dubbed "My brain made me do it." This belief that some of our decisions have nothing to do with our brains reflects a profound resistance to findings from psychology and neuroscience.

One reason why people resist certain scientific findings, then, is that many of these findings are unnatural and unintuitive. But there is more to the story than this. After all, some unintuitive scientific facts come to be broadly accepted. Even though children may initially find it hard to understand that objects are made of tiny particles or that the Earth isn't flat, most everyone comes to accept that these things are true. How does this happen?

Also, there are cultural factors that need to be explained. Americans are not more resistant to science in general. For instance, 1 in 5 American adults believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, which is somewhat shocking—but the same proportion holds for Germany and Great Britain. But Americans really are special when it comes to certain scientific ideas—and, in particular, with regard to evolutionary theory. The relevant data are shown below, from a 2006 survey published in Science. What explains this culture-specific resistance to evolution?

evolution graph

How children learn

Part of the explanation for resistance to science lies in how children and adults process different sorts of information.

Some culture-specific information is not associated with any particular source. It is "common knowledge." As such, learning of this type of information generally bypasses critical analysis. A prototypical example is that of word meanings. Everyone uses the word "dog" to refer to dogs, so children easily learn that this is what they are called. Other examples include belief in germs and electricity. Their existence is generally assumed in day-to-day conversation and is not marked as uncertain; nobody says that they "believe in electricity." Hence even children and adults with little scientific background believe that these invisible entities really exist, a topic explored in detail by Paul Harris and his colleagues.

Science is not special here. Geographic information and historical information is also typically assumed, which is how an American child comes to believe that there is a faraway place called Africa and that there was a man who lived long ago named Abraham Lincoln. And, in some cultures, certain religious beliefs can be assumed as well. For instance, if the existence of supernatural entities like gods, karma, and ancestor spirits is never questioned by adults in the community, the existence of such entities will be unquestioningly accepted by children.

Other information, however, is explicitly asserted. Such information is associated with certain sources. A child might note that science teachers make surprising claims about the origin of human beings, for instance, while their parents do not. Furthermore, the tentative status of this information is sometimes explicitly marked; people will assert that they "believe in evolution."

When faced with this kind of asserted information, one can occasionally evaluate its truth directly. But in some domains, including much of science, direct evaluation is difficult or impossible. Few of us are qualified to assess claims about the merits of string theory, the role in mercury in the etiology of autism, or the existence of repressed memories. So rather than evaluating the asserted claim itself, we instead evaluate the claim's source. If the source is deemed trustworthy, people will believe the claim, often without really understanding it. As our colleague Frank Keil has discussed, this sort of division of cognitive labor is essential in any complex society, where any single individuals will lack the resources to evaluate all the claims that he or she hears.

This is the case for most scientific beliefs. Consider, for example, that most adults who claim to believe that natural selection can explain the evolution of species are confused about what natural selection actually is—when pressed, they often describe it as a Lamarckian process in which animals somehow give birth to offspring that are better adapted to their environments. Their belief in natural selection, then, is not rooted in an appreciation of the evidence and arguments. Rather, this scientifically credulous sub-population are deferring to the people who say that this is how evolution works. They trust the scientists.

This deference to authority isn't limited to science; the same process holds for certain religious, moral, and political beliefs as well. In an illustrative recent study, subjects were asked their opinion about a social welfare policy, which was described as being endorsed either by Democrats or by Republicans. Although the subjects sincerely believed that their responses were based on the objective merits of the policy, the major determinant of what they thought of the policy was in fact whether or not their favored political party was said to endorse it. More generally, many of the specific moral intuitions held by members of a society appear to be the consequence, not of personal moral contemplation, but of deference to the views of the community.

Adults thus rely on the trustworthiness of the source when deciding which asserted claims to believe. Do children do the same? Recent studies suggest that they do; children, like adults, have at least some capacity to assess the trustworthiness of their information sources. Four- and five-year-olds, for instance, know that adults know things that other children do not (like the meaning of the word "hypochondriac"), and when given conflicting information about a word's meaning from a child and from an adult, they prefer to learn from the adult. They know that adults have different areas of expertise, that doctors know about fixing broken arms and mechanics know about fixing flat tires. They prefer to learn from a knowledgeable speaker than from an ignorant one, and they prefer a confident source to a tentative one. Finally, when five year-olds hear about a competition whose outcome was unclear, they are more likely to believe a character who claimed that he had lost the race (a statement that goes against his self-interest) than a character who claimed that he had won the race (a statement that goes with his self-interest). In a limited sense, then, they are capable of cynicism.

Implications

In sum, the developmental data suggest that resistance to science will arise in children when scientific claims clash with early emerging, intuitive expectations. This resistance will persist through adulthood if the scientific claims are contested within a society, and will be especially strong if there is a non-scientific alternative that is rooted in common sense and championed by people who are taken as reliable and trustworthy. This is the current situation in the United States with regard to the central tenets of neuroscience and of evolutionary biology. These clash with intuitive beliefs about the immaterial nature of the soul and the purposeful design of humans and other animals — and, in the United States, these intuitive beliefs are particularly likely to be endorsed and transmitted by trusted religious and political authorities. Hence these are among the domains where Americans' resistance to science is the strongest.

We should stress that this failure to defer to scientists in these domains does not necessarily reflect stupidity, ignorance, or malice. In fact, some skepticism toward scientific authority is clearly rational. Scientists have personal biases due to ego or ambition—no reasonable person should ever believe all the claims made in a grant proposal. There are also political and moral biases, particularly in social science research dealing with contentious issues such as the long-term effects of being raised by gay parents or the explanation for gender differences in SAT scores. It would be naïve to ignore all this, and someone who accepted all "scientific" information would be a patsy. The problem is exaggerated when scientists or scientific organizations try to use their authority to make proclamations about controversial social issues. People who disagree with what scientists have to say about these issues might reasonably infer that it is not safe to defer to them more generally.

But this rejection of science would be mistaken in the end. The community of scientists has a legitimate claim to trustworthiness that other social institutions, such as religions and political movements, lack. The structure of scientific inquiry involves procedures, such as experiments and open debate, that are strikingly successful at revealing truths about the world. All other things being equal, a rational person is wise to defer to a geologist about the age of the earth rather than to a priest or to a politician.

Given the role of trust in social learning, it is particularly worrying that national surveys reflect a general decline in the extent to which people trust scientists. To end on a practical note, then, one way to combat resistance to science is to persuade children and adults that the institute of science is, for the most part, worthy of trust.


[This is a modified version of P. Bloom & D. S. Weisberg, "Childhood origins of adult resistance to science", published in Science, May 18, 2007. This article contains citations of the experimental studies discussed here.]

Comments 1 - 50 of 54 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

1. Comment #46205 by CJ on May 30, 2007 at 2:48 pm

 avatarWell at least the USA beat Turkey on the belief in evolution scale. There is hope!!!

Ah but they were also 32nd out of 34 so maybe not!

Other Comments by CJ

2. Comment #46209 by jonecc on May 30, 2007 at 3:05 pm

From the article, quoting the President's Council in their 2003 report (Being Human: Readings from the President's Council on Bioethics):

"We have both corporeal and noncorporeal aspects. We are embodied spirits and inspirited bodies (or, if you will, embodied minds and minded bodies)".

In 1277, Pope John XXI issued a condemnation of 219 propositions argued by philosophers of the Paris school, and explained in some detail the exact propositions that philosophers were to find to be true. 826 years later, an immeasurably less literate and sophisticated President finds himself wandering into territory he couldn't begin to understand either.

Other Comments by jonecc

3. Comment #46210 by MIND_REBEL on May 30, 2007 at 3:14 pm

 avatarReligion wants to destroy Science and hold back progress, so that people will be unhappy and turn to religion for comfort. If religion hadn't been holding back science for the last 300 years, as a society, we'd be so advanced that many of the problems we face would have already been solved.

Other Comments by MIND_REBEL

4. Comment #46212 by Frostbit on May 30, 2007 at 3:21 pm

I'm sure right below Turkey are the real popular countries like Iraq, Iran, & Saudi.

The future advance in science and technology and the leading countries will be ranked accordingly also.

The U.S. will be the leader in modern church design.

Other Comments by Frostbit

5. Comment #46216 by atheist_peace on May 30, 2007 at 3:29 pm

 avatar"If religion hadn't been holding back science for the last 300 years, as a society, we'd be so advanced that many of the problems we face would have already been solved."

I believe Sam Harris once said that if we didn't have religion, technology we have today, like the internet, could have existed in the 17th century.

Science will win the fight against religion eventually; right now all religion can do is keep fighting dirty.

Other Comments by atheist_peace

6. Comment #46219 by WeeWullie on May 30, 2007 at 3:34 pm

 avatar"To end on a practical note, then, one way to combat resistance to science is to persuade children and adults that the institute of science is, for the most part, worthy of trust."

It definitely appears to be the case that much of the impact that RD has had on many of his converts is down to his personal impact - his good-looks, his intelligence, his ability to articulate his arguments, his certainty, his academic status and, of course, his British accent!

Other Comments by WeeWullie

7. Comment #46227 by Planeswalker on May 30, 2007 at 3:54 pm

Proud to be Danish :D

Other Comments by Planeswalker

8. Comment #46228 by dawgdoc2000 on May 30, 2007 at 3:58 pm

 avatarMind Rebel wrote:
Religion wants to destroy Science and hold back progress, so that people will be unhappy and turn to religion for comfort.

I think that "Religion" also wants to limit science because they want their adherents to mindlessly accept whatever garbage they throw at them.
dd2k

Other Comments by dawgdoc2000

9. Comment #46229 by kLoWnY on May 30, 2007 at 3:59 pm

That was interesting, but I still don't get why America in particular seems to tend this way. Do religious leaders here have more influence? If so, how and why?

Other Comments by kLoWnY

10. Comment #46231 by kaiserkriss on May 30, 2007 at 4:08 pm

 avatarWeeWullie wrote "It definitely appears to be the case that much of the impact that RD has had on many of his converts is down to his personal impact - his good-looks, his intelligence, his ability to articulate his arguments, his certainty, his academic status and, of course, his British accent!"

Puhleeese, that is "woolly" thinking! How shallow do you think people are?? Professor Hawking for example has hardly any of the "qualities" you describe, yet has a huge following because of his ability to think rationally.

Indeed, there might be some "hero worship" involved, however, it is the argument that sways people.
If what you suggest is true, Scientology with its Hollywood stars would win hands down. jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

11. Comment #46234 by WeeWullie on May 30, 2007 at 4:16 pm

 avatarKaiserKriss said:

"Puhleeese, that is "woolly" thinking! How shallow do you think people are?"

"Indeed, there might be some "hero worship" involved, however....."

So, which is it kaiserkriss? Congratulations on your "unwoolly" thinking.

Other Comments by WeeWullie

12. Comment #46248 by kaiserkriss on May 30, 2007 at 4:45 pm

 avatarWeeWullie: to reiterate, " it is the argument that sways people".. probably should have added something along the lines of "who have 'converted' or now understand RD's reasoned arguments".

Okay you got me, I didn't express my view very clearly. I was trying to give your argument a modicum of credit that a certain minuscule irrational minority of individuals are shallow enough to fall for a person's status. Is that still too woolly?

Further I would suggest most individuals, at least in my circles, are open enough to be persuaded by rational argument and evidence than unsubstantiated hearsay and flash. jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

13. Comment #46249 by Nails on May 30, 2007 at 4:47 pm

 avatarScary stuff.
My biggest fear is that here in the UK, many people are being put off science because it is 'geeky' or too difficult to understand. This is made worse by tabloid misinterpretation of research (ie tiny increase in cancer rates among HRT users is reported as a major problem, MMR vaccine and autism etc.). Indeed, tabloid coverage of any science is piss-poor at best, I've seen articles calling MRSA a virus amongst other things. Scientists described as boffins.....
An then the pathetic examples we get every few months "Scientists discover perfect formula for (insert something ludicrous like bacon sandwhich or whatever) And then they print the bloody formula!!!
This is leaving people let down by science, and therefore succeptable to religion at a later age.

Other Comments by Nails

14. Comment #46251 by Bonzai on May 30, 2007 at 4:53 pm

Hmm.. I am a bit surprised that Italy and Spain scored so high on the evolution chart while Austria was placed so low. I always thought culturally the Austrians and the Germans are similar, but they seem to be very far apart on evolution according to the chart.

Other Comments by Bonzai

15. Comment #46252 by CJ22 on May 30, 2007 at 4:54 pm

 avatarMaybe it persists because ingorant people tend to have more kids, who they raise to be ignorant? We're being out-bred by chavs.

Other Comments by CJ22

16. Comment #46259 by MIND_REBEL on May 30, 2007 at 5:20 pm

 avatarIt persists because the Church still has a stranglehold on all aspects of culture. Things aren't that much different than during the middle ages, except the power structure is just more hidden. Religion still rules this sick world.

Other Comments by MIND_REBEL

17. Comment #46275 by WeeWullie on May 30, 2007 at 6:19 pm

 avatarResponse to kaiserkriss:

Don't underestimate the power of 'pretty packaging'. The charisma of a 'prophet' (not literally in case of RD) is a big part of the trust or credibility people subconciously attribute to them. That's what this article is all about!

Not to mention the 'airtime' they receive from media outlets, which then carries their message to a wider audience.

Other Comments by WeeWullie

18. Comment #46287 by Macho Nachos on May 30, 2007 at 7:28 pm

 avatarKaiserkiss: This may be horribly shallow, but I think a lot of people believe what Hawking says even though they don't understand it because he speaks in a robotic voice and doesn't really appear to be emotional or 'fallible'. So, they extrapolate that he's unlikely to be wrong about what he's saying.

Well, that's just a theory (like Evolution...)

On the topic of people being shallow, though, I think image and charisma are major factors. In a world where soundbites make up most of the coverage an average person gets on a given issue, the superficial impression we get of the source of information could easily play a major role in the credibility we assign to that position.

That is to say, people are more likely to believe Dawkins on evolution than a guy wearing a leather jacket, with a shaved head and tatts. Sure that's an extreme example, but there's a continuum there, and I'm confident it has an effect, even if not a concious one.

Other Comments by Macho Nachos

19. Comment #46292 by savroD on May 30, 2007 at 8:04 pm

 avatarAhhhhhhhhhhh..... vanity, definitely my favorite sin!

Other Comments by savroD

20. Comment #46294 by BT Murtagh on May 30, 2007 at 8:20 pm

 avatarI'm going to have to try this later, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the "common-sense Aristotlean theory of object motion" will turn out to be more accurate than the 'correct' model, in the real world where things like friction exist.

If I propel a ball straight into a curved tube as shown, my guess would be that the ball will pick up some spin from the wall of the tube. When it comes out the point of contact with the floor will be spinning and this will make the path curve.

If anyone's able and willing to make the experiment before I can (I'm not at home) post the results.

It puts me in mind of a time I was 'corrected' by one of my childhood art teachers for putting the sun and moon in the sky at the same time in my drawing. I pointed out the window, where both were cleatly visible in the morning sky.

Other Comments by BT Murtagh

21. Comment #46308 by bouwe on May 30, 2007 at 10:01 pm

Australia isn't even included in this chart.

Other Comments by bouwe

22. Comment #46321 by Russell Blackford on May 30, 2007 at 11:09 pm

This is an important article. It puts together a lot of information about why seemingly irrational ideas persist.

Behind the psychological data there is presumably an evolutionary explanation, though the authors don't address the question in those terms.

The short answer is, perhaps, that scientific ideas - such as biological evolution and the dependence of mental experience on the functioning of the brain - are correct but not intuitive to beings with our particular evolved psychology.

To elaborate that idea slightly, we evolved in circumstances where a lot of unscientific ideas were good enough for our survival and reproduction. Back in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness, there was no reproductive benefit in understanding that the Earth is not actually flat, or that mental states supervene on the material complexity of the brain, or that objects at sub-atomic level behave in bizarre ways, or that objects travelling at relativistic velocity have certain odd properties. Evolution had no stake in giving us the truth about all this, but only in giving us dispositions that would get us by and get us laid.

All this stuff in the modern scientific world picture is massively counterintuitive for most people, and it has had to be worked out slowly, against the grain of what we are naturally inclined to think. What's more, our natural inclinations take us in the direction of peopling the world with spirits and their purposes. For some people, realising that it just isn't like that causes the kind of anxiety that Camus, for example, described so well.

It's rationally explicable why so many people don't "get" the scientific worldview, and why religion and other intellectually untenable belief systems persistence.

More research needs to be done on this, but a picture is beginnning to emerge, and the work of Bloom and Weisberg will certainly help.

It might also offer us some insight into the thinking of religionists, and why they can be perfectly rational people in most ways. Rationality in most things does not oppose our intuitive ideas. It's only when we get to these large-scale clashes of scientific and religio-magical thinking that a lot of human intuition is actually in tension with the propositions that have the best rational support from evidence, theory, and more evidence.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

23. Comment #46322 by PsyPro on May 30, 2007 at 11:12 pm

 avatar
Australia isn't even included in this chart.

Nor is the second largest (geographically) country on the planet, Canada. (Mind you, that may be less embarassing than what might have been revealed!)



Other Comments by PsyPro

24. Comment #46326 by epeeist on May 30, 2007 at 11:37 pm

 avatarComment #46308 by bouwe

Australia isn't even included in this chart

Not in the bible mate, doesn't exist.

Other Comments by epeeist

25. Comment #46327 by epeeist on May 30, 2007 at 11:38 pm

 avatarComment #46294 by BT Murtagh

I'm going to have to try this later, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the "common-sense Aristotlean theory of object motion" will turn out to be more accurate than the 'correct' model, in the real world where things like friction exist.

If I propel a ball straight into a curved tube as shown, my guess would be that the ball will pick up some spin from the wall of the tube. When it comes out the point of contact with the floor will be spinning and this will make the path curve.

So, do you bowl finger or wrist spin?

Other Comments by epeeist

26. Comment #46334 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 1:18 am

 avatarI think Nails has a good point there. Its all about the protrayal of science. It IS seen as geeky. Say the word "scientist" and people will think of some mad, eccentric egghead character surrounded by bubbling retorts, cackling remarks like "Ahahhh!!! Eureka!!!!"

Either that or the image is of a 70s era Open University lecturer, complete with knittted mustard tie and ill fitting cordurouy jacket with leather elbow patches (No offence to the OU by the way!!)

There is a SERIOUS image problem with science. It just isnt cool enough, or should maybe that not be "k3wl"?

Trouble is, how do you make it attractive, something with mass appeal without splattering it with "dumb text speak", and lowering standards.

Maybe the RI lectures are the way to do it:

The RI Christmas lectures are a great way to show how it CAN be presented well without dumbing down. Trouble is, programmes like that are the exception. There are very few decent science progs on TV now.

The best that TV gets, IMO, is the wildlife programmes - some of these are of an obviously very high standard. There is also a considerable increase in wildlife related tourism, certainly in a lot of parts of Scotland, so perhaps its not all bad. There is definitely a big demand and a big market for this type of biological science type documentary stuff.


Maybe people can relate to animals better than other science subjects? Just a thought or two.

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

27. Comment #46344 by ridelo on May 31, 2007 at 2:02 am

Do the RI Christmas lectures still exist? I haven't seen them the last years on BBC 1 Or BBC 2.

Other Comments by ridelo

28. Comment #46348 by scottishgeologist on May 31, 2007 at 2:24 am

 avatarridelo

Yes, they are still broadcast - last years was all about numbers. There is a list of them all on the wilkipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Institution_Christmas_Lectures

Some tremendous names in that list!

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

29. Comment #46349 by BAEOZ on May 31, 2007 at 2:29 am

 avatarShameless plug alert!
Hi guys, I've posted a little tune I wrote yesterday on myspace relating to a lot of stuff I've read on this site, and in Richard's, and others' books. It's really just a demo, and I'm not a great singer, so caveat auditor! I'm curious to peoples response to the lyrics, see if it makes sense.

If you dare, go to:
www.myspace.com/wearethecrap

The song is called "controversy". The other songs have no relation to this site, except maybe "she" which is me putting myself in the shoes of someone of faith and imagining it like dangerous infatuation.....

Cheers and don't worry, it won't cost you (except maybe in auditory trauma).

Other Comments by BAEOZ

30. Comment #46382 by rokort on May 31, 2007 at 4:31 am

 avatarto follow up on Nails and scottishgeologist:

you both are right i think, how scientists are portrayed is not something to underestimate.

Here in our lab we (a bunch of 20 to 30 years-young that are either still in school, just left it, or on their way to a career) discuss this a lot amongst ourselves: How can we attract more students, how can we get through to people (and kids in particular) that science is not for geeks? How do we show that science is not difficult?

It's complicated but we think at least the following might contribute:
1. science should be as important in a schools' curriculum as language or math. Science is not complicated, aparently kids get smarter every generation ,so there's no excuse there. Showing the students the wonders of life might be tough with all the distractions out there, but not insurmountable.
2. there should be more contact between scientist and schools (there are projects here in Holland where PhD students go to highschools to tell what their life is about and that actually they are really normal people that also party and dress "hip" - this sounds too sad for words but unfortunately this is necessary.
3. science teachers should be highly engaged in the world of their students (i mean not be some grey person delivering handouts or repeating what's in a study book), be able to translate the fundamentals of science in a way that students are triggered to join the thinking process, and be able to clarify to students that studying science means a life and career that actually you can pretty much control yourself (and not some manager somewhere else in the building) – if only a student is not afraid of working hard and not always satisfactory pay of course...
4. science journalists should be (made) aware that their portraying of scientific achievement is about work in progress and it should always partly be about what we don't know yet and how important a finding is in the light of what it means to "mankind".
This can be done properly. For example, last year i had published something which got coverage in a national newspaper and although the editing took quite some back and forth with the reporter, in the end it was a very informative and honest piece. He was able to translate the findings in such clear manner that even my granmother understood it.
5. it's a profession of fun and adventure (despite "drawbacks" like funding, pay, and working hours), and it offers immense opportunities to discover the world - think of working abroad or in a international or interdisciplinary environment.

I know the above also accounts for some other careers and perhaps some of the ideas come across as unpolished or maybe even hogwash, but the main thing i think is showing the next generation and the layman that science and scientists are not out of this world - ergo, that science is one of the driving forces of an economy. For this only there should be more consideration and support from government, but that's another discussion.

Other Comments by rokort

31. Comment #46407 by Logicel on May 31, 2007 at 6:17 am

 avatarBaeoz, I enjoyed the guitar playing very much, however I was unable to understand the sung lyrics, and I noted that written lyrics for Sunday was not provided.

Other Comments by Logicel

32. Comment #46425 by debaser71 on May 31, 2007 at 7:07 am

Interesting article but I don't particularily agree wsith it. For instance when talking to children it's important to realize that they haven't grown up in a vacuum, that their caregivers and teachers have already imposed some false perceptions about the nature of reality onto them. Also children haven't learned all the intracicies of language so to talk about mind vs brain or whatever doesn't make me reach any conclusions about what their specific beliefs are. For example this notion of dualism, I call BS on it.

Anyway that these things get talked about and looked into at all IMO is a good thing, even if they get some things wrong at first.

RL call.

Other Comments by debaser71

33. Comment #46442 by Pallinn on May 31, 2007 at 8:32 am

 avatarWoohoo! Iceland uber alles! The downside is that it can be frightfully boring to be an atheist here... If I want to debate religion with someone I usually have to initiate the conversation, so there's always some concern about sounding like a troll.

But then again, I just read an advertisement for a camp for kids where they'll be "taught" how to read the bible. And this was in a local pamphlet, tiny even on Iceland's tiny scale. And then there's the nation's absurd belief in various kinds of alternative medicine.

Thank god!

Other Comments by Pallinn

34. Comment #46445 by bouwe on May 31, 2007 at 8:51 am

If this is right, then resistance to science cannot be simply addressed through more education; something different is needed.
Yeah....and what exactly is it that they need then? Please someone, get us the answer!!!! That is for another research paper, I guess. Other than that, I found this article very helpful....even though Australia doesn't even figure in their survey ;-)

Other Comments by bouwe

35. Comment #46465 by ridelo on May 31, 2007 at 11:11 am

scottishgeologist:

Thank you for the information!

Other Comments by ridelo

36. Comment #46466 by BAEOZ on May 31, 2007 at 11:20 am

 avatar
I enjoyed the guitar playing very much, however I was unable to understand the sung lyrics, and I noted that written lyrics for Sunday was not provided.

Hi Logicel, thanks for taking the time to listen and for you comments (I've played guitar for years, just learning to sing). It would seem my fears about my vocals were correct ;-). The lyrics for "controversy" were posted on myspace I believe the other tunes aren't really related to humanism and the struggle against faith but I'll post them on myspace now.
Anyway, I'm misusing this thread for my own benefit, so thanks to those who took the time to listen and sorry to anybody who's peeved with me.

Other Comments by BAEOZ

37. Comment #46468 by BAEOZ on May 31, 2007 at 11:28 am

 avatar
I enjoyed the guitar playing very much, however I was unable to understand the sung lyrics, and I noted that written lyrics for Sunday was not provided.

Hi Logicel, thanks for taking the time to listen and for you comments (I've played guitar for years, just learning to sing). It would seem my fears about my vocals were correct ;-). The lyrics for "controversy" were posted on myspace I believe the other tunes aren't really related to humanism and the struggle against faith but I'll post them on myspace now.
Anyway, I'm misusing this thread for my own benefit, so thanks to those who took the time to listen and sorry to anybody who's peeved with me.

Other Comments by BAEOZ

38. Comment #46470 by troodon on May 31, 2007 at 11:40 am

Russell Blackford wrote:
"To elaborate that idea slightly, we evolved in circumstances where a lot of unscientific ideas were good enough for our survival and reproduction. Back in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness, there was no reproductive benefit in understanding that the Earth is not actually flat, or that mental states supervene on the material complexity of the brain, or that objects at sub-atomic level behave in bizarre ways, or that objects travelling at relativistic velocity have certain odd properties. Evolution had no stake in giving us the truth about all this, but only in giving us dispositions that would get us by and get us laid."

Bang on. This is the conclusion I've come to myself, and it ties right into RD's "Mother of all Burkas".
Our survival depends on "instinct", for lack of a better word. If a falling rock is about to hit us, or if a child is being threatened by a predator, we don't have time to carefully analyze the evidence, but we need fast action. In most cases these instinctive actions will be appropriate. This is much like the athlete who is successful because he doesn't "over-analyze".

In our daily lives we make a lot of decisions that are based on a "quick and dirty" evaluation, without resorting to the slow, careful analysis of scientific inquiry. We develop rules of thumb that in the majority of cases yield a good result.

In this sense, science is just not as intuitive as our "gut" reaction. But to understand the universe beyond our "middle world" we need science and math. There was no evolutionary benefit in having intuitive rules of thumb to help us understand the strangeness of the natural world.

To overcome this we need children taught early to be skeptics and to learn science such as astronomy and evolution so they begin to get an appreciation of the natural universe beyond our narrow intuitive range. We need kids to think science is cool, and look up to scientists in the same way they do now to actors and rock stars.

Other Comments by troodon

39. Comment #46479 by flankspeed on May 31, 2007 at 12:32 pm

Kaiserkriss:

"Professor Hawking for example has hardly any of the "qualities" you describe"

What, you don't like his accent? Sounds cool to me. Husky too. He's a hit with the laydeez, that man. So I hear, anyway...

Other Comments by flankspeed

40. Comment #46491 by flankspeed on May 31, 2007 at 1:05 pm

Scottishgeologist: "Say the word "scientist" and people will think of some mad, eccentric egghead character surrounded by bubbling retorts, cackling remarks like "Ahahhh!!! Eureka!!!!"

Nice to see a fellow Scot on board. Apropos of that remark, I once heard a nice statement - alas can't remember from who - that said that the most exciting scientific discoveries don't start with someone saying "Eureka! I have it!", but rather:
"Hey, that's funny..."

Mr Dawkins won me over in TGD when he said that we should be encouraging people (especially kids) to be curious about how the world works. Thing is, when that's done right, kids LOVE IT! I've yet to see a kid who hasn't, at some point or another, been really happy about finally figuring something out. There's a real sense of achievement that comes with learning (scientific or otherwise).

Sure, the image thing might currently be a problem, but for how long?

After all, most scientists aren't wearing cassocks nowadays, so let's be thankful for that, for a start. Plus, like ROKORT says, "it's a profession of fun and adventure". Damn straight. Who doesn't like a Vandergraff (spelling?) Generator?

Other Comments by flankspeed

41. Comment #46514 by 42nd on May 31, 2007 at 2:25 pm

 avatar"Given the role of trust in social learning, it is particularly worrying that national surveys reflect a general decline in the extent to which people trust scientists. To end on a practical note, then, one way to combat resistance to science is to persuade children and adults that the institute of science is, for the most part, worthy of trust."

NO! That would turn science into yet another religion. What needs to be done is to show children that science, in essence, does not consist out of weird people in lab coats armed with test tubes, its just a very sober framework of discovering new stuff. We need to show to our children that appearance can be deceiving (that ball in a tube is perfect example), and that one needs to overcome limits of common sense and built-in sense of physics in order to gain true understanding. We all come to this world with brains calibrated for survival in the wild, not for understanding world around us, and we need to provide our children with user manual so they can re-adjust their minds for curiosity and critical thinking. That's how I see that.

sorry for my bad English

Other Comments by 42nd

42. Comment #46560 by Nails on May 31, 2007 at 4:29 pm

 avatar40. Comment #46491 by flankspeed on May 31, 2007 at 1:05 pm


I once heard a nice statement - alas can't remember from who - that said that the most exciting scientific discoveries don't start with someone saying "Eureka! I have it!", but rather:
"Hey, that's funny..."

Isaac Asimov, I pressume.

Other Comments by Nails

43. Comment #46566 by Nails on May 31, 2007 at 4:45 pm

 avatarThe wierd thing about all of this is that the biggest face of science we see is medicine. We all trust (to a certain degree) the wisdom of our GP's and pharmacists.
So why is the researcher, the guy (or gall) who made a large wedge of this possible just sneered at like some computer-obssessed sci-fi freak.
Look at the simpsons, for example.



Other Comments by Nails

44. Comment #46576 by mmurray on May 31, 2007 at 5:21 pm

 avatarHere is an article from The Independent in the UK which I saw this morning. It leaves me really worried about the general public understanding of science. I am happy to concede there may be issues with electromagnetic radiation and they may be more severe in particular people but the general level of woolly thinking is really scarey:

http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2600308.ece

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

45. Comment #46639 by BMMcArdle on June 1, 2007 at 12:45 am

BT Murtaugh (#20) has a point. The same thing happens to a golf ball. A ball struck hard enough will most definitely rise during the first part of its flight. This is due to the backspin imparted to the ball which causes the top of the ball to have less resistance to the air than the bottom. In the study example the ball would have overspin, causing it to curve downward.

Other Comments by BMMcArdle

46. Comment #46675 by Rtambree on June 1, 2007 at 4:03 am

34. Comment #46445 by bouwe on May 31, 2007 at 8:51 am

>If this is right, then resistance to science cannot be simply addressed through more education; something different is needed.
Yeah....and what exactly is it

Well, it's clear from the paper - it's a generational change. Children should not be abused with nonsense early on (then again we all grow out of Santas Claus and the Easter Bunny with no psychological calamities).

The enormous difference in religiosity between countries suggests the explanation is cultural and not human nature.

Americans make the mistake of judging all of humanity on the basis on American society, when in fact, the United States is the *exception* to the rule: all other western countries see a decline in religiosity with increasing living standards.

Other Comments by Rtambree

47. Comment #46725 by cbelt on June 1, 2007 at 9:37 am

That was interesting, but I still don't get why America in particular seems to tend this way. Do religious leaders here have more influence? If so, how and why?


I've often wondered the same thing. I think part of it might have something to do with our expertise at marketing, advertising and promotion in the commercial world. These principles are now routinely applied to sell religion and churches like consumer products. New megachurches feel like a cross between an upscale mall and a posh health club. There are sophisticated programs for "enfolding" new members. Worship style constantly evolves to accomodate current tastes, and the emphasis is kept on the happy stuff. Once you're there a while, you start to accept whatever the pastor says.

Comforting lies + good marketing = deluded nation.

Just a theory.

Other Comments by cbelt

48. Comment #46728 by Bonzai on June 1, 2007 at 9:49 am

Re: Public image of scientists.

I think it is much simpler than what many of you think. Stupid people don't trust smart people because smart people make them feel stupid. Bush got elected by playing the fool,--or by actually being one,--and they say, hey, we trust him since he is like us. So, the brainy scientists may be admired like Einstein,--or worshiped by some like Dawkins,--but they will never be trusted at the gut level: scientists are not like "us"..

So why are there so many stupid people? I think it is not so much due to inborn stupidity, but rather
laziness and the fact that people are constantly distracted by more mundane stuffs like making a living, raising family and having sex,--remember how George in Seinfeld started thinking about quantum mechanics when sex was not availiable? The modern cultural ethos of leveling also contribute to the celebration of mediocrity.

"Trusting" scientists isn't really a scientific attitude. It would be better if somehow more people can have the opportunities and incentives to learn the sciences. But how is the average Joe supposed to do it with high university tuitions and low wage, long working hours? You can't even access most journal articles without paying a hefty price unless you have an institutional account. So you find a lot of junks on the internet and think that you have discovered treasures. Knowledge and information are guarded jealously and sold like commodities. Stupidity would be the expected outcome for the majority who can't afford to be informed.

Our natural tendency to laziness, stress and distractions from life, cultural mediocrity, lack of access to quality science all contribute to national stupidity.

P.S. I don't think your run of the mill MDs are really "men of science". They are more like auto mechanics, only that they are supposed to fix us therefore are held in high regards, almost religiously by most people. But in reality the garage mechanics actually have much higher success rate than your average GP, whose most important function seems to be writing referrals to specialists.

EOR (end of rant)

Other Comments by Bonzai

49. Comment #46739 by troodon on June 1, 2007 at 10:39 am

kLoWnY wrote:
"That was interesting, but I still don't get why America in particular seems to tend this way. Do religious leaders here have more influence? If so, how and why?"

Chris Hedges gives some insights in "American Fascists".
His reasoning is roughly (I don't have the book here for reference): Increasingly the wealth in the U.S. is concentrated among a smaller portion of the population. Many of the high-paying factory jobs are gone and there is a very poor social safety net compared to other western nations. There is a lot of uncertainty as the medical costs of an accident or illness can bankrupt a family. It leads to a feeling that the people are no longer in control of their lives, and they turn to religion for comfort and a sense of community.

Other Comments by troodon

50. Comment #46740 by Flagellant on June 1, 2007 at 10:40 am

 avatarmmurray (44) posted the following link
http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2600308.ece

to an article in The Independent, one of the most serious, and generally responsible, of the UK's newspapers. The article is drivel from beginning to end: "naturopath", indeed... Thanks for that; The Independent is, I believe, Richard Dawkins's daily paper. Time for a strongly worded letter about the garbage, please.

[Edited to get link to work - oh bugger - still not working... but you can cut & paste it or click on mmurray's link on comment 44.]

Other Comments by Flagellant
Reload Comments | Back to Top

More Comments: 1 2 | Next | Last

Comment Entry: Please Login

Register a new account

Username:

Password: