1. Comment #46246 by He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy on May 30, 2007 at 4:41 pm

Wow, that was a very honest read, and for me very moving (which is very surprising for me, for a number of reasons).

I shall be keeping an eye on this one. I'd like to wish all the best and stuff, but something tells me that this particular deconversion is going to be nothing but painful. But then, accepting that everything you have ever been told is a lie, and that the purpose of life you have been given by others is a fraud, is always painful to accept.

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2. Comment #46253 by alovrin on May 30, 2007 at 4:59 pm

All I can do is wish the blogger well in this difficult journey away from god and followers.
Interesting observations about the gossiping Pioneers and the Baptists and Catholics being the most spiteful.

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3. Comment #46265 by queen5102 on May 30, 2007 at 5:44 pm

Brian, please do not think of yourself as being a deserter or a destroyer. I, and many others, have found a tremendous joy in seeing the world as it really is and not as a place to suffer before going to what Christians and Muslims call heaven. You are so right. You only have one life to live, such a brief time in the sun. Now that is a truly liberating thought! There are so many awesome things to learn about and marvel at in the universe that you will not miss your religion or the people who were not truly your friends. Many people will like and love you just as you are, perhaps even more so since you have stopped being irrationally religious.

The family is a tougher problem and it may be painful for you to break away; yet in the end, you will be happier. Your family will not stop loving you because of your rationalistic world view. Even if they do, you are of an age where you can choose how to live a life that is rational and happy and yes, moral, even without god or the church. If they fail to rally 'round you, it truly is their problem.

I was chronically depressed when I believed in god, or to put it more accurately, when I thought I was supposed to believe in god. Since I gave up any attempt at believing in god, I have truly felt liberated and joyful. Now I know I have only one life and I try to learn as much as I can and I don't have to worry about eternal damnation. I try to treat the people I am with including my family and friends as if we have only one life to be together. It truly puts life and relationships into perspective. Like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I am in awe to think that someday I will be stardust again, yet my molecules have been graced to evolve for a brief time into consciousness. No religious feeling can ever compete with that.

Make your choice to live rationally with your head held high. Treat your family and former "friends" in the church with kindness for they are still living with their mental illness of believing in irrational things. Maybe some day they will see the truth and be set free from such beliefs due to your example.

You are not alone. You have found atheists and rational thinkers in this online community who think like you and who will be supportive of your struggle to break away from the chains of your religious upbringing. You were in a sense abused. Be kind to yourself and think of yourself in more positive terms than deserter or destroyer.

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4. Comment #46280 by John P on May 30, 2007 at 6:42 pm

Brian needs some support. He has no comments - yet. His account is locked so that only Google accounts can add comments. Someone with a Google account needs to tell him to change his settings and allow, at least, non-Google accounts. I'm not going to sign up for Google to do it, but he needs to know that his online blog is his connection to real support.

Someone might also want to point him to this thread.

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5. Comment #46283 by HeathenAngel on May 30, 2007 at 7:01 pm

"Brian needs some support. He has no comments - yet. His account is locked so that only Google accounts can add comments. Someone with a Google account needs to tell him to change his settings and allow, at least, non-Google accounts. I'm not going to sign up for Google to do it, but he needs to know that his online blog is his connection to real support.

Someone might also want to point him to this thread."

I jumped the gun.. I let him know that he should change his settings, but didn't read far enough ahead to point him to the thread.. sorry.. I get a little excited sometimes.

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6. Comment #46284 by krogercomplete on May 30, 2007 at 7:02 pm

My girlfriend's aunt/uncle/cousins are JWs. Nice people, but the kids are incredibly sheltered to the point where it is almost painful to be in their company for extended periods of time. JW highlight: they are not allowed to celebrate holidays, so the other family members get the kids presents slightly before or after each holiday and just call them love presents, or everyday presents, or something else to that effect. As if God doesn't see whats up.

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7. Comment #46293 by cal_mertes on May 30, 2007 at 8:05 pm

Brian,

Think of yourself not as a "deserter" but as one becoming enlightened. For you are leaving the darkness of JW belief for the light of reason and reality.

None the less, you probably will have difficult days ahead. My best recommendation is to start making new friends who are not associated with JW. Whether they believe or not is not that important; the important thing is that they accept you and what you are doing. Or at least don't try to "save" or "convert" you.

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8. Comment #46313 by shemp333 on May 30, 2007 at 10:37 pm

I love this idea you had of documenting your progress of thought. Myself, I can't say I ever was a believer. But I will never forget the moment that it became so. I was 5 or 6, and as a child I was fascinated by dinosaurs. There are hundreds of pictures of me as a child with toy dinosaurs in my hands. I knew all the names. Then in Sunday School, I was first told of the Bible. This is the story of how the world began, and included everything. I will never forget hearing the story of Genesis, and everyone being asked if there are any questions. My little hand was the only one to go up.
"What about the dinosaurs?"
A couple kids snickered, and the teacher laughed a little and moved on. I never understood what these people were trying to get me to understand from then on. As a teen, I came to understand that the misunderstanding was not in me. It was in what they were collectively indoctrinated to believe. I have always had a mind inclined to science and mathematics. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

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9. Comment #46339 by skummymummy on May 31, 2007 at 1:29 am

Shemp, your experience at Sunday School mirrors my own, apart from the fact that I was physically assaulted by the teacher for having the temerity to question creation (ironically with the help of my mother, who is now a born-again xtian.) Thanks to that, I started on the road to enlightenment. In my childish mind there was physical evidence of dinosaurs but no dinosaurs in the bible, therefore the bible was wrong. My lack of belief has always been as simple as that. It's only recently that I have started to study it in more depth.

I guess I've been fortunate enough to live in a society where it has been easy for me to reject the supernatural without fear of ridicule or being ostracised. Even when I lived in Iran (post revolution) I was quite open about my non-belief and this was accepted by my muslim in-laws and others, although my husband did apologise on my behalf.

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10. Comment #46377 by Mat on May 31, 2007 at 4:15 am

Comment for Brian, because I also couldn't comment on his blog, not having a Google account: you are not alone; you are doing the right thing; however painful, getting rid of the irrational beliefs you were unfairly indoctrinated with will give you the opportunity to be a rational, thoughtful, compassionate and decent human being who does it because that's the right thing to do, not because some Uber-Bearded-ParentInTheSky tells you to (through a bunch of men...). Good luck, my thoughts are with you.

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11. Comment #46386 by fatcitymax on May 31, 2007 at 4:57 am

Rejoice! You've freed yourself from a Religion of Moloch.

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12. Comment #46392 by Logicel on May 31, 2007 at 5:26 am

There are now 17 comments for Brian's latest post, all supportive, helpful, and positive. I can only imagine that the 17 commenters are theists misrepresenting themselves as atheists, because we all know that atheists are cold, uncaring, and selfish. :-)))

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13. Comment #46400 by Barbara on May 31, 2007 at 5:59 am

Logicel,

I know I am! ;-)

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14. Comment #46404 by BicycleRepairMan on May 31, 2007 at 6:13 am

"What about the dinosaurs?" LOL!
Perhaps it wasnt meant to be funny, and I realize that the escape from indoctrination is a very serious subject and all(As this blog is living proof) But that story really cracked me up, shemp333, grown people outsmarted by a 6-year old, and they happily just ignore it. Such a desperately ironic moment.

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15. Comment #46433 by BMMcArdle on May 31, 2007 at 7:44 am

Next week; "How I Regained My Faith!" Sorry folks, but I aint buying it.

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16. Comment #46440 by Phaeonix on May 31, 2007 at 8:23 am

I believe it.

I run the Facebook group for Atheists, and we are well over 8,000 extremely active members who have become somewhat like a family.

There are so many stories like this, and it is becoming more common...

We have "stolen" converts from the famous Christian Caps group: "I'M PROUD TO BE A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!"

over 178,000 members... most of the most active are the Atheist Evangelizers

^_^

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17. Comment #46441 by LeeLeeOne on May 31, 2007 at 8:26 am

Brian, how eloquent, insightful, and, as many have said, brave. Thank you for your blog, for your time and effort. Blogging is wonderfully therapeutic, helping to clarify self-issues, and hopefully at least 99.99% of the time, to gain support. I join with all others (who also have so eloquently stated their support) in wishing you well in your journey.

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18. Comment #46498 by deserter_brian on May 31, 2007 at 1:30 pm

I saw the comments on my blog, and then the posting here. All I can say is...wow. Just, wow. I never expected more than 2 or 3 people to ever find this blog. I want to sincerely thank you all for your love and support. I'm going to try to update every week day unless I just have nothing to talk about. If you didn't already catch it there is an RSS link at the bottom of my page if you want to keep up with my posts.

Again, thank you all so much.

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19. Comment #46499 by deserter_brian on May 31, 2007 at 1:31 pm

Oh, by the way. I've enabled public comments. Now you no longer need to have a blogger account to post a reply.

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20. Comment #46501 by Lionel A on May 31, 2007 at 1:41 pm

Brian,

If you have found your way here then welcome, I like yourself had to free myself after being pressured into baptism in the Baptist church here in the UK. Although no where near as oppressive as the JWs seem to be it has caused waves with one side of my family.

You have very much hit one nail on the head with the following:

'The belief that God is going to swoop down one day

and "fix everything" spawns a dangerous apathy for

the earth we live on now, and the lives we lead now.

Why try to save the planet when God is either going

to blow it up or make it a paradise? Why should I

try to lose weight when God is going to give me a

perfect body anyway?',

which points to one extremely dangerous aspect of such religious beliefs.

My son is about to marry a girl who's parents were JWs but are no longer. That is good but they remain extremely repressed people who are trying to avoid the normal duty of acting as hosts at their daughters wedding and also the 'Speech'.

I hope that we can meet these people more often and help them over their disability, a disability which has probably been caused by their unfortunate association with the JWs.

I do hope you manage to continue shaking off the shackles

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21. Comment #46522 by WeeWullie on May 31, 2007 at 2:32 pm

Well done, Brian! Welcome to the world (the real one)! I'm sure you'll find that plenty of us non-believers are still good, moral, upright, people. Others amongst our ranks may not be quite like that, but at least out here in the god-less universe we can live according to our own consciences, rather than being bullied or bribed into being 'virtuous'.

Hope your family are not too hard on you for your 'desertion'!

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22. Comment #46538 by ricey on May 31, 2007 at 3:15 pm

What a creepy sounding outfit the JWs are! They always seemed so nice - I almost (almost) felt guilty as I shut the door in their faces, but no more ...

Why not arm ourselves with atheist tracts - a synopsis of Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens (and that other guy who's book I haven't read yet).

Even a glance at the book titles would be enough to generate fear among the God-zombies.

We leave a pile of them by our doors and insist that we won't take any tract from anyone: JW's Mormons, run-of-the-mill Jesus-freaks, etc unless they take one from us (ho,ho!).

If nothing else, it'll get us blacklisted by the faith-heads so we can enjoy our privacy without someone who feels the need to save us butting in.

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23. Comment #46598 by deserter_brian on May 31, 2007 at 6:50 pm

@ricey

What a wonderful idea. It's funny you bring that up. A few years ago my mother (who has voiced her own doubts to me) had a discussion with me about why the Watchtower Society asks others to put their own religion under a critical light, but forbids its own members to do the same? Surely the true religion would be above criticism.

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24. Comment #46635 by Machoduck on May 31, 2007 at 11:47 pm

Brian, you show a tremendous amount of bravery here!

It's such a great thing that you have realized that the whole JW shit is... well, shit.

Good luck coming out of the closet!

- May no god be with you

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25. Comment #46845 by Unregistered on June 1, 2007 at 11:59 pm

I felt compelled to register and comment that, just as with any religion, you will have moderates and you will have fanatics.

I personally was a bit shocked reading about how Brain was treated by the Jehovah's Witnesses. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, as was my older brother, and we are now both atheists. My mother is quite devout, attending her "meetings" three times per week, and always has her religious literature laying around the house. Besides being slightly disappointed, she has never shunned or condemned us for rejecting her religion. In fact, we get along as well as we always have, only now we engage in civil discussion about the validity of the bible, evolution, faith, etc.

Aside from the disappointment I felt with myself for taking so long to realize the truth, my exit from the faith was completely painless.

Perhaps it's just the congregation we belonged to, but all the Jehovah's Witnesses I met were just as civil and respectful as my mother. My father is in fact agnostic and still married to my mother, a fact she is not ashamed of, nor one she has ever tried to hide from the other Witnesses, and this has never caused her any problems with the church.

As I'm sure many of you have heard or know from personal experience, you are never fully freed from religion you abandoned (if I recall correctly, Dawkins himself admits he still feels a certain affinity for the Anglican church) and I just felled obliged to inform everyone that Jehovah's Witnesses, while just as mistaken, aren't necessarily anymore nutty than any other denomination.

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26. Comment #47123 by FXR on June 3, 2007 at 4:08 am

This guy is not a deserter.

He's just joined the human race.

Welcome back dude!

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27. Comment #48697 by Misha Vargas on June 8, 2007 at 6:08 pm

Brian's blog disappear'd shortly after he posted that he had told his mother, and they spoke for a long time, and he agreed to pray, almost to humor her. I've no idea what happen'd.

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28. Comment #50380 by deserter_brian on June 17, 2007 at 2:13 pm

Hi everyone. I just wanted to let you all know that I'm still here. The big, bad Watchtower didn't carry me off into the night or anything like that. I had a long discussion with my parents (actually, they did most of the talking). I agreed to do more research before making a decision and pray. So far, my prayers (as I suspected) have not been answered. I put down the God Delusion for a bit but picked it back up again a few days ago. I'm nearly finished.

Several of Mr. Dawkins' charges against the Bible are answered by Watchtower literature. Unfortunately, these answers are not satisfying. They are all made from the standpoint that Biblical infallibility is already an established fact, a "given." In a nutshell, they're using the Bible to prove the BIble, although not as directly as other sects.

Anyway. I deleted my blog because for a new nights I had a change of heart. I think it was a defense mechanism. The pain of losing everything is too much for me. I've decided to adopt a slower approach at breaking away. I'm going to first build friendships and relationships outside the organization, then I will have more support and something to fill the void immediately when I cut ties for good.

As always, thanks for everything and your support. If I start blogging again, I'll post the URL here.

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29. Comment #50384 by Corylus on June 17, 2007 at 3:33 pm

Brian,

Re your slow breaking away, maybe a new job out of town or a college course?? Both can be good things in themselves (and you meet new people in both situations). Plus the people currently around you will understand why you have to leave because of them.

You seem like a smart, thoughtful person, I reckon you will will be able to meet lots of new friends. The trick is to be really brave and get out there whenever you get to a new place. (Easier said than done, I know, I can be shy myself!)

Best of luck :)

P.S. Word of advice. Don't join any groups that demand excessive exercise (i.e. hill-walking, lane swimming, jumping about in strange clothing etc) or any that demand excessive concentration (e.g. chess or political debate) that way lies both exhaustion and madness: I've been there - I know.

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30. Comment #50418 by BAEOZ on June 18, 2007 at 2:42 am

Hey Brian, keep at it mate. It must be hard, the whole indoctrination and knowing that you'll probably loose most of your support mechanisms and be outcast has gotta suck. I'm not sounding supportive or helpful.
I think for me, the most important thing is to be true to yourself and not ignore the doubt. In the end being involved in something you don't want or believe in will suck more. And once you're free, then you open up some really cool possibilities....

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31. Comment #50423 by Logicel on June 18, 2007 at 4:14 am

Brian, You know what is best--what is the right approach for you; trust yourself, and you will be able to work through the challenges. You are, after all, your own best friend.

It seems that you have a good handle on the circular 'reasoning' used in supporting religious beliefs, but that you do not have a good handle on leaving/replacing the social support which you have entirely depended on your religious group to provide. You are wise in pinpointing this as a big problem for you and trying to understand how you can best solve it.

I wish you the very best in solving this thorny situation and will keep checking this thread for any posts by you.

Thank you again for your honesty and courage in speaking out.

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