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Christopher Hitchens on Religion
WBUR, On Point Radio
Click here for the RealPlayer audio file. Download the free RealPlayer here.
Streaming : 48:22
Thanks to Ronan Mehigan for the link.
Reposted from:
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2007/05/20070511_b_main.asp (Windows Media version also available)
By host Tom Ashbrook:
Christopher Hitchens has never been a friend to religion. The sharp-tongued British-born critic and provocateur called Mother Theresa "the Ghoul of Calcutta." He was early and loud in denouncing "Islamic fascism." He's a dukes-up-on-all-fronts anti-theist.
With his new book, the gloves are really off. He's called it: "god is not Great." Subtitle: How Religion Poisons Everything. You may love it. Billions do.
But Hitchens calls organized faith "violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism and bigotry." And that's just for starters.
This hour On Point: Christopher Hitchens versus God.
Quotes from the Show:
"That's part of what I'm criticizing in this book -- the presumption that faith is a virtue." Christopher Hitchens
"It's only in the United States that there's a constitution that separates the church from the state." Christopher Hitchens
"It's part of a change in the zeitgeist. I think there're a lot of people, very great number of people ... who are fed up with religious bullying and coercion and clerical lecturing and with the damage being done to civilization by faith. They want to find a way of pushing back at it." Christopher Hitchens
"Religion comes from the terrified infancy of our species. ... [It] is innately coercive as well as innately incoherent. Because it's man-made, there's an infinite variety of it for them all, and these sects proceed to quarrel among themselves, religious warfare having being one of the great retardances of civilization of the time we've been alive and very much to this day." Christopher Hitchens
"You can believe in God, be a deist, as Thomas Jefferson was for example, ... but not believe in religion. ... Religion means that you claim that you know God's mind." Christopher Hitchens
"It [religion] allows people to avoid the consequences and the reality of what they need to be dealing with." Listener
"He can't go up against the testimony of believers. ... He's out to prove that my testimony and my salutations of my belief in a God is dead wrong. And I do agree with him on the fact that I think religion has poisoned a lot of things because religion is a man-made issue. ... The key is that it's not fair upon this planet, to human mankind, to discredit a personal testimony ... ." Stephan Munsey
"I'm unsure how you can look at nature and the things that are unexplainable by scientists and unexplainable by mankind and not see that there is a God that has formed these things on earth." Listener
"I do think [the book] gives a short shrift to the dissenting Christians." Bill Leonard
Guests:
· Christopher Hitchens, Contributing Editor at Vanity Fair and author of the book, "god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything."
· Stephan Munsey, Senior Pastor of the Family Christian Center, which has 10,000 members and author of "Unleashing Your God-Given Dreams."
· Bill Leonard, Professor of Church History and Dean of the Divinity School at Wake Forest University in North Carolina.
Reposted from:
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2007/05/20070511_b_main.asp (Windows Media version also available)
By host Tom Ashbrook:
Christopher Hitchens has never been a friend to religion. The sharp-tongued British-born critic and provocateur called Mother Theresa "the Ghoul of Calcutta." He was early and loud in denouncing "Islamic fascism." He's a dukes-up-on-all-fronts anti-theist.With his new book, the gloves are really off. He's called it: "god is not Great." Subtitle: How Religion Poisons Everything. You may love it. Billions do.
But Hitchens calls organized faith "violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism and bigotry." And that's just for starters.
This hour On Point: Christopher Hitchens versus God.
Quotes from the Show:
"That's part of what I'm criticizing in this book -- the presumption that faith is a virtue." Christopher Hitchens
"It's only in the United States that there's a constitution that separates the church from the state." Christopher Hitchens
"It's part of a change in the zeitgeist. I think there're a lot of people, very great number of people ... who are fed up with religious bullying and coercion and clerical lecturing and with the damage being done to civilization by faith. They want to find a way of pushing back at it." Christopher Hitchens
"Religion comes from the terrified infancy of our species. ... [It] is innately coercive as well as innately incoherent. Because it's man-made, there's an infinite variety of it for them all, and these sects proceed to quarrel among themselves, religious warfare having being one of the great retardances of civilization of the time we've been alive and very much to this day." Christopher Hitchens
"You can believe in God, be a deist, as Thomas Jefferson was for example, ... but not believe in religion. ... Religion means that you claim that you know God's mind." Christopher Hitchens
"It [religion] allows people to avoid the consequences and the reality of what they need to be dealing with." Listener
"He can't go up against the testimony of believers. ... He's out to prove that my testimony and my salutations of my belief in a God is dead wrong. And I do agree with him on the fact that I think religion has poisoned a lot of things because religion is a man-made issue. ... The key is that it's not fair upon this planet, to human mankind, to discredit a personal testimony ... ." Stephan Munsey
"I'm unsure how you can look at nature and the things that are unexplainable by scientists and unexplainable by mankind and not see that there is a God that has formed these things on earth." Listener
"I do think [the book] gives a short shrift to the dissenting Christians." Bill Leonard
Guests:
· Christopher Hitchens, Contributing Editor at Vanity Fair and author of the book, "god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything."
· Stephan Munsey, Senior Pastor of the Family Christian Center, which has 10,000 members and author of "Unleashing Your God-Given Dreams."
· Bill Leonard, Professor of Church History and Dean of the Divinity School at Wake Forest University in North Carolina.
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Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2007 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 51 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #48294 by jesus_christ_himself on June 7, 2007 at 10:52 am
It would be great if someone could convert this to mp3Other Comments by jesus_christ_himself
3. Comment #48296 by BAEOZ on June 7, 2007 at 11:00 am
"I'm unsure how you can look at nature and the things that are unexplainable by scientists and unexplainable by mankind and not see that there is a God that has formed these things on earth."
False dichotomy anybody? Would you like a god of the gaps with that order?
Other Comments by BAEOZ
4. Comment #48297 by bladesman on June 7, 2007 at 11:03 am
"I'm unsure how you can look at nature and the things that are unexplainable by scientists and unexplainable by mankind and not see that there is a God that has formed these things on earth." Listener
Typical God of the Gaps reaction. Poor scientists can't keep up with the incessant need of the religious to have an explanation for everything, NOW, and so they fall back on the default 'Goddidit'.
Other Comments by bladesman
5. Comment #48298 by babyjesus19 on June 7, 2007 at 11:04 am
tom ashbrook is one of the best host/mods out there. i heard this broadcast live, and subscribe to the OnPoint podcast. Hitch was a good guest. keep up the good work to both of them.Other Comments by babyjesus19
6. Comment #48303 by Friend Giskard on June 7, 2007 at 11:15 am
Hitchens: "We didn't know that the sun went round the earth"This is the second time I've heard Hitch make this slip. Does he make it in the book too?
Other Comments by Friend Giskard
7. Comment #48306 by CanadAdam on June 7, 2007 at 11:32 am
I think this exact same interview was posted here a few weeks ago.Other Comments by CanadAdam
8. Comment #48314 by Friend Giskard on June 7, 2007 at 11:49 am
Listening on, I think you're right. Other Comments by Friend Giskard
9. Comment #48337 by ImagineAZ on June 7, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Christopher Hitchens is just a master of the perfect response to the stupid argument.Other Comments by ImagineAZ
10. Comment #48342 by Thrall on June 7, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Ha!"My daughter got sick, got xrays and treated by doctors with chemo, her hair fell out, but MY PRAYER saved her!"
What a rube.
Other Comments by Thrall
11. Comment #48343 by Thrall on June 7, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Wow, you can hear the interviewer straining not to jump in and not just start yelling at Hitchins. "Those who blow up other mosques... that's a testimony too isn't it"...Thank God for Hitchins.
Other Comments by Thrall
12. Comment #48350 by Priapus on June 7, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Note, at 6 minutes and 48 seconds:Hitchens, "...we didn't know that the sun went round the earth...".
(Ha, ha).
Regards,
Priapus.
Other Comments by Priapus
13. Comment #48353 by the great teapot on June 7, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Yes , it is the same interview.Who could forget Hitchens telling the "Pasta" that he was either a fool or a charlatan and outright "disgusting" for believing that the Lord answered his prayers for the life of his daughter while ignoring the prayers of others. (Although we have since discovered from Mcgrath that this can be explained by the fact that god makes one or two random interjections but wouldn't want to be seen to be showing off by curing everyone- after all who would want to live in a pefect world)
Other Comments by the great teapot
14. Comment #48354 by the great teapot on June 7, 2007 at 2:49 pm
"We didn't Know the sun went around the earth."That is still as true today as it was 2 thousand years ago.
What's so funny about that Priapus.
Other Comments by the great teapot
15. Comment #48358 by Priapus on June 7, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Mr. G. Teapot,Mr. C. Hitchens meant to say "we didn't know that the earth went round the sun". NOT, as he said, "...we didn't know that the sun went around the earth".
As, as I have just noticed, Mr. F. Giskard pointed out in comment 6, Mr. C. Hitchens has made this error a few times. If he is not careful, and falls prey to trigger-happy misquoters, then this error will be used against him.
Regards,
Priapus.
Other Comments by Priapus
16. Comment #48366 by eoinc on June 7, 2007 at 3:20 pm
"With his new book, the gloves are really off. He's called it: "god is not Great." Subtitle: How Religion Poisons Everything. You may love it. Billions do."I know it's doing well in the bestseller list, but "billions" is taking it too far.
Other Comments by eoinc
17. Comment #48394 by LeeLeeOne on June 7, 2007 at 5:35 pm
The gentleman moderating this discussion and this interview deserves many, many kudos! Christopher Hitches may hit hard in the gut, but this is where religion needs to be hit because religion continuously tries to hit below the belt (if you get my meaning).... (snicker) Other Comments by LeeLeeOne
18. Comment #48395 by Salvatore on June 7, 2007 at 5:37 pm
>> 16. Comment #48366 by eoinc on June 7, 2007 at 3:20 pm >>
>> I know it's doing well in the bestseller list, but "billions" is taking it too far.
My new theory is that atheists make the best copyeditors... Would make a good bumper sticker...
Anyway, they just broke the paragraph incorrectly. It's faith that billions love!
Sorry, Hitch.
"You may love it. Billions do. But Hitchens calls organized faith 'violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism and bigotry.' And that's just for starters."
Other Comments by Salvatore
19. Comment #48396 by BAEOZ on June 7, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Salvatore, you want to have a dasyurid battle to extinction? The ultimate fight between survival? Oh, what's that your dasyurid can't make it? Sorry ;-) Other Comments by BAEOZ
20. Comment #48398 by Salvatore on June 7, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Baeoz,Yeah, but I know a couple of pipe-hitting numbats ready to get medieval…
Other Comments by Salvatore
21. Comment #48399 by okmichigan on June 7, 2007 at 6:13 pm
click on the link to onpointradio.org... doesn't hitchens look exactly like tom ashbrook? :)Other Comments by okmichigan
22. Comment #48403 by BAEOZ on June 7, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Yeah, but I know a couple of pipe-hitting numbats ready to get medieval…
Bugger, I was hoping they hadn't offered you their services yet. Ok, we'll call it a draw.
Other Comments by BAEOZ
23. Comment #48409 by ghostbuster on June 7, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Isn't it interesting that people latch onto Mr. Hitchen's making a verbal error when in fact, people make extremely potent thinking errors not even comparable to that. We all should know that it was and is an easy mistake to make and more importantly, Mr. Hitchens does not believe that the sun revolves around the earth. Should the ever vigilant Christian spot that mistake, he or she will upgrade it to proof that Mr. Hitchens doesn't know very much---not, of course, realizing how fundamentally stupid most of THEIR beliefs are in word and deed.Other Comments by ghostbuster
24. Comment #48414 by PeterK on June 7, 2007 at 7:36 pm
This is such an incredibly fine moment for Hitchens. Finally, he is allowed to speak and fill the room with his intelligence, articulation, wit and insight. Bravo, simply brilliant.Other Comments by PeterK
25. Comment #48418 by cacahahacaca on June 7, 2007 at 9:14 pm
MP3 Version:http://rapidshare.com/files/35881532/op_0511b.mp3.html
Other Comments by cacahahacaca
26. Comment #48420 by LeeLeeOne on June 7, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Okee, dokee, this particular interview/show is one from many weeks ago, already posted on this site... (should I be embarrassed?) did the checking as the posers within the few posts noted this segment was a repeat.Problem 1: perhaps I missed the first showing, many other people could have missed it...
Problem 2: perhaps I was not paying enough attention, and listening to this again, I admired it even more ... (it's message finally sunk in)
Problem 3: perhaps the moderators of this website thought this interview was too great to miss, or needed more responses or there is a lull in the news and we need a fill-in to keep the freethinkers thinking.
Problem 4: No problem... who cares if it's a repeat. We all need a dose of reality or a pep talk (however you look at it)!
Regardless, once again, kudos to everyone. Posters, moderators, owners, commentators, contributors, etc., are all educators. Education is NEVER lost... it's what we choose to do with it!
Other Comments by LeeLeeOne
27. Comment #48422 by Veronique on June 7, 2007 at 10:27 pm
This post is off topic (sort of).However it was who recommended reading Joseph Wheless' Forgery in Christianity, thank you very much.
It has just arrived and I am reading the forward. It was published in 1930. All I can say so far is that RD, AC Grayling and the Hitch are worthy successors to this brand of anti-religious polemic.
Wheless pulls no punches whatsoever. It is going to be one enjoyable read.
Off for a wine, a lie down and the book!!
Cheers
V
Other Comments by Veronique
28. Comment #48423 by BAEOZ on June 7, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Hey Veronique. I haven't seen you posting in the last few days. How's it going? Enjoy the book and wine. If you find the book good, let me know and I'll try and source it from somewhere. Other Comments by BAEOZ
29. Comment #48432 by Veronique on June 8, 2007 at 12:09 am
Hey Baeoz. I'm fine, thanks. Been writing an article on climate change and population. I want to send it off for consideration for publication but not sure where to start. Any ideas? I am new at this and pretty naive.The book is good. I'm learning about the deliberate lies told by the christian writers (and they confessed to these lies) in order to entice the 'heathens' into their organisation. It's right up my alley. Good to find cited references to the tissue of lies that the wholly babble actually is.
And the wine is good too, hehehe
V
Other Comments by Veronique
30. Comment #48469 by shellemush on June 8, 2007 at 4:54 am
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hitchens. Yes, it is INSULTING to those children who suffer horribly to broadcast that your prayers were heard and answered by your chosen deity and that your child was miraculously healed. Appalling arrogance couched as humility.Other Comments by shellemush
31. Comment #48490 by GregPreston on June 8, 2007 at 6:51 am
When he's sober he's actually very good. Thanks I enjoyed that Other Comments by GregPreston
32. Comment #48495 by minstrel on June 8, 2007 at 7:29 am
That was a thoroughly enjoyable show. I was especially floored by how Hitchens called the mega-church Pator "incredibly arrogant" for preaching that he healed his daughter's Hodgekin's disease through prayer. I always thought that faith-healer's claims were just foolish, but Chuck really pressed home the arrogance of preaching that they have the power to heal diseases.
The real arrogance comes when they essentially preach that God obeys their command to reverse a disease that God purportedly designed and infected people with in the first place! As if God would essentially say "Gee. You're right! I see the error of my ways. I shouldn't have infected your daughter with Hodgekin's. Let me clean that up for ya!"
Other Comments by minstrel
33. Comment #48502 by justme on June 8, 2007 at 7:45 am
cacahahacaca: Thanks for the link to the MP3. The main sites look like they are slammed right now. Other Comments by justme
34. Comment #48509 by Ohnhai on June 8, 2007 at 8:05 am
Munsey is a hypocrite. He would be amongst the FIRST to go a gainst the personal testimony of those who proclaimed gainst the 'Truths of the "lord"'He is just pissed that someone -- any one-- has the simple gall to say "And how 'exactly' o you speak with'god' again?"
Personal testimony is fine, but it is open to the same scrutiny and ridicule as any other branch of evidence. it is this simple truth that those like Munsey do not like.
Other Comments by Ohnhai
35. Comment #48523 by Ragnar0kk on June 8, 2007 at 9:10 am
cacahahacacaThank you for the mp3 link! :)
Other Comments by Ragnar0kk
36. Comment #48535 by OsakaGuy on June 8, 2007 at 9:50 am
cacahahacaca, you rock! Thanks! Other Comments by OsakaGuy
37. Comment #48536 by pewkatchoo on June 8, 2007 at 9:55 am
Excellent stuff there. Other Comments by pewkatchoo
38. Comment #48578 by LarryCF on June 8, 2007 at 12:49 pm
This Muncey fellow is a joke. So he has a "personal testimony"--so does Osama bin Laden. And what's this "human mankind" shit? What other kind of mankind is there than human?Muncey also said, in this same interview, that his daughter--who was dying of cancer--was healed by prayer. Of course, she also underwent chemotherapy prior to the "healing." Guess that had nothing to do with it. I wish all these faith heads who crow about divine healing would show one--just ONE--example of a lost limb which was restored, or a lost eye which popped back into its socket out of nowhere.
Just one.
Other Comments by LarryCF
39. Comment #48579 by the great teapot on June 8, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Mr PriapusI knew that Mr Hitchens was in error, and you are quite correct to point out the error.
As I am also sure you were aware my defence of his position was born of my desire to preserve his dignity.
Regards Mr G Teapot.
(At last someone on this site affords me the respect I deserve)
Other Comments by the great teapot
40. Comment #48588 by kkant on June 8, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Heheh. http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/That and the Noodly Appendage justify, I think, a complete case on their own. :)
This is definitely one of CH's better interviews. I love his complete destruction of that preacher's "prayer healed my daughter" nonsense.
Incidentally, Veronique or anyone else interested in the early history of Christianity and/or the lack of historical evidence for Jesus, check out "The Jesus Puzzle" by Earl Doherty:
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Puzzle-Christianity-Challenging-Historical/dp/096892591X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9929799-9475809
He lays out a very comprehensive case. Plus it has one of the funniest "recommendation blurbs" on the back cover, that I have ever seen (from one of his detractors, a fundamentalist xtian).
Other Comments by kkant
41. Comment #48597 by maton100 on June 8, 2007 at 1:48 pm
More on Hitchens after the interview...http://thestubborncurmudgeon.blogspot.com
Other Comments by maton100
42. Comment #48719 by Shuggy on June 8, 2007 at 7:49 pm
He can't go up against the testimony of believers. ... He's out to prove that my testimony and my salutations of my belief in a God is dead wrong. ... it's not fair upon this planet, to human mankind, to discredit a personal testimony ... ." Stephan Munsey
"testimony" like "witness" is a word these people don't seem to understand. A witness gives testimony to what they have witnessed, and then they are cross-examined. Hearing God speak would be hearsay evidence, wouldn't it, and thrown out of court?
(I will not download RealPlayer - once bitten.)
Other Comments by Shuggy
43. Comment #48753 by Veronique on June 9, 2007 at 1:41 am
I agree ShuggyI did real Player as well. Stuffed everything up. It was good that I could go to Onpointradio and use windows media player.
kkhant, I will read Wheless first. I don't know how much I can take of christianity but thank you for the reference.
How did you 'blue' my name? Shit! there is so much I don't know about posting!!
V
Other Comments by Veronique
44. Comment #48755 by Bonzai on June 9, 2007 at 1:48 am
I am sick of hearing any more from Hitchens.Other Comments by Bonzai
45. Comment #48843 by eno on June 9, 2007 at 7:15 am
The caller who stated that every society has had relisgion and prayed is mistaken. I would refer him (and others) to the brilliant book 'Guns, Germs and Steel' by Jared Diamond that takes a fascinating look at early humanity and pre-Christianity. Also, it might be worth looking at 'Breaking the Spell' by Daniel C. Dennett. People really should do some research before they start spurting emotional and irratitional and subjective tosh.Then he goes to talk about praying for his daughter. What a twit. He actually thinks that it was his praying that saved his daughter and not the doctors who administered the chemotherapy! How offensive.
Other Comments by eno
46. Comment #48846 by eno on June 9, 2007 at 7:22 am
Bonzai - if you're sick of hearing from him then don't listen to him!Other Comments by eno
47. Comment #48887 by kkant on June 9, 2007 at 10:47 am
Veronique writes:kkhant, I will read Wheless first. I don't know how much I can take of christianity but thank you for the reference.
You're welcome. Yeah, the Doherty book is good stuff. I haven't finished it yet, but the first couple chapters very concisely and clearly debunk the myth of Jesus as a historical figure.
Veronique writes:
How did you 'blue' my name?
You can use the "font" html tag. In the opening tag with the angle brackets, type "font color=blue". Then close the text with "/font". :)
Other Comments by kkant
48. Comment #48891 by pewkatchoo on June 9, 2007 at 11:07 am
VeroniqueI do think that pink is more becoming.
Other Comments by pewkatchoo
49. Comment #48894 by Bonzai on June 9, 2007 at 11:35 am
Hitchins is an amazing polemicist but a shallow thinker.Other Comments by Bonzai
50. Comment #49392 by Rick777 on June 11, 2007 at 6:52 pm
The usual emotion driven arguments. "My Daughter got sick and after a long course of treatment ..my prayer saved her" "God is changing peoples lives" Well ..most cults do change peoples lives . There are thousands of false issusionary beliefs out there. Jim Jones,Heavens Gate,Ramtha School of Enlightenment, to name a few.Then there is always the woman that calls in whom has invented her own God . Her God is always loving and intimately involved in every aspect of her life. Her God explains all the things that she does not understand.
And there is always someone that declares that science can NEVER explain the deeper mysteries of the universe,therefor an eternal super entity has to exist. Wouldn`t the existence of an eternal super entity pose an even greater mystery than the universe does? How do they get all the way to "super entity " from "I don`t know"
Personal experience ,testimony, that is nothing more than a prejudice to see the world in non-rational terms . It is bigotry at its finest.
Other Comments by Rick777
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1. Comment #48292 by Ragnar0kk on June 7, 2007 at 10:48 am
I love Christopher Hitchens but I cant get this to download! Anyone have a mirror? (preferably mp3 or ogg format)Other Comments by Ragnar0kk