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Monday, June 11, 2007 | Reason : Commentary | print version Print | Comments

Document The New Atheists

by Ronald Aronson, The Nation

Reposted from:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070625/aronson/

What began with publisher W.W. Norton taking a chance on a gutsy, hyperbolic and idiosyncratic attack on religion by a graduate student in neuroscience has grown into a remarkable intellectual wave. No fewer than five books by the New Atheists have appeared on bestseller lists in the past two years--Sam Harris's The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation, Daniel Dennett's Breaking the Spell, Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion and now Christopher Hitchens's God Is Not Great. The scandalized media have both attacked and inflated the phenomenon. After the New York Times Book Review, for example, ran a thoughtful review of Harris and then a negative front-page review of Dawkins, the daily paper published two weak op-ed attacks on the writers and a vapid article on how atheists celebrate Christmas, followed by tongue-in-cheek admiration in the Book Review for Hitchens's ability to promote his career by saying the unexpected.

Despite such dubious blessings, the four have become must-read writers. The most remarkable fact is not their books themselves--blunt, no-holds-barred attacks on religion in different registers--but that they have succeeded in reaching mainstream readers and in becoming bestsellers. Is this because Americans are beginning to get fed up with the religiosity of the past several years? It would be comforting if we could explain this as a cultural signal of the end of the right-wing/evangelical ascendancy. Such speculations are probably wishful thinking--book buyers are such a small slice of the population that few sociologists would stake their careers on claiming that book buyers' preferences reflect anything like a national mood.

The success of the New Atheists may, however, reflect something significant among their audience. In the past generation in the United States, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists have been a timid minority--almost voiceless, often on the defensive, routinely derided, both warned against and ignored. As Susan Jacoby pointed out in her book Freethinkers, it is symptomatic of the situation that the most dramatic presidential address in generations took place in the National Cathedral three days after September 11, 2001, so filled with religious language that it sounded like a sermon. It was delivered by a President flanked by Jewish, Muslim and Christian representatives, a model of religious inclusiveness, without anyone standing alongside them representing the tens of millions of nonreligious Americans. At this most important collective moment in our recent history, it was as if they did not exist. This is what the polls are telling us: Virtually everyone in America believes in God.

We know how zealously the conservative Christian denominations have politicized themselves in the past generation, how the GOP has harnessed this energy by embracing their demands--opposing stem-cell research, gay marriage and abortion rights, championing government aid to religious schools and faith-based social programs--and by appointing sympathetic judges. So effectively have they framed the issues that, according to the Pew Research Center's 2006 report on religion and public life, fully 69 percent of Americans believe that liberals have "gone too far in trying to keep religion out of schools and government."

We commonly hear that only a tiny percentage of Americans don't believe in God and that, as a Newsweek poll claimed this spring, 91 percent do. In fact, this is not true. How many unbelievers are there? The question is difficult to assess accurately because of the challenges of constructing survey questions that do not tap into the prevailing biases about religion. According to the American Religious Identification Survey, which interviewed more than 50,000 people, more than 29 million adults--one in seven Americans--declare themselves to be without religion. The more recent Baylor Religion Survey ("American Piety in the 21st Century") of more than 1,700 people, which bills itself as "the most extensive and sensitive study of religion ever conducted," calls for adjusting this number downward to exclude those who believe in a God but do not belong to a religion. Fair enough. But Baylor's own Gallup survey is a bit shaky for at least two reasons. It counts anyone who believes in a "higher power" but not God as believing in God--casting a vast net over adherents of everything from spirit to history to love. Yet the study allows unbelievers only one option: to not believe in "anything beyond the physical world," leaving no space for those who regard themselves as agnostics or skeptics, secularists or humanists. Contrast this with a more recent and more nuanced Financial Times/Harris poll of Europeans and Americans that allowed respondents to declare agnosticism as well as atheism: 18 percent of the more than 2,000 American respondents chose one or the other, while 73 percent affirmed belief in God or a supreme being.

A more general issue affects American surveys on religious beliefs, namely, the "social desirability effect," in which respondents are reluctant to give an unpopular answer in a society in which being religious is the norm. What happens when questions are framed to overcome this distortion? The FT/H poll tried to counteract it by allowing space not only for the customary "Not sure" but also for "Would prefer not to say"--and 6 percent of Americans chose this as their answer to the question of whether they believed in God or a supreme being. Add to this those who declared themselves as atheists or agnostics and, lo and behold, the possible sum of unbelievers is nearly one in four Americans.

All this helps explain the popularity of the New Atheists--Americans as a whole may not be getting too much religion, but a significant constituency must be getting fed up with being routinely marginalized, ignored and insulted. After all, unbelievers are concentrated at the higher end of the educational scale--a recent Harris American poll shows that 31 percent of those with postgraduate education do not avow belief in God (compared with only 14 percent of those with a high school education or less). The percentage rises among professors and then again among professors at research universities, reaching 93 percent among members of the National Academy of Sciences. Unbelievers are to be found concentrated among those whose professional lives emphasize science or rationality and who also have developed a relatively high level of confidence in their own intellectual faculties. And they are frequently teachers or opinion-makers.

But over the past generation they have come to feel beleaguered and, except for rare individuals like comedian and talk-show host Bill Maher, voiceless in the public arena. The great success of the New Atheists is to have reached them, both speaking to and for them. These writers are devoted, with sledgehammer force and angry urgency, to "breaking the spell" cast by the religious ascendancy, to overcoming a situation in which every other area of life can be critically analyzed while admittedly irrational religious faith is made central to American life but exempted from serious discussion.

This does not make for restraint. Harris displays brash self-confidence, Hitchens and Dawkins angry intellectual bite and Dennett an inexhaustible theoretical energy and range of inquiry. Harris excoriates religious moderates, accusing them of providing cover for fundamentalists at home and abroad by refusing to contest the extremists' premises--because they share them. More upbeat, Dennett is devoted to creating the intellectual conditions for future discussions, in which religion will be treated as just another "natural" phenomenon and accordingly subjected to critical scrutiny. Dawkins bulldozes his way through every major argument for religious belief, and a great many minor ones. And Hitchens endlessly catalogues religion's crimes and absurdities. Each man is at war, writing as if no others had preceded him, and with a passion that can only be described as political.

Above all, each sees himself as breaking a taboo. This explains not only the vigor and urgency of these books, their mainstream character and their publishing success but also the common refrain in reviews that they have "gone too far." Of course they have, because their many faults are often inseparable from their strengths. Self-indulgence is their common flaw: Dennett and Dawkins might have considered their readers more and disciplined their own need to follow out every line of thought, while Harris is so full of his point of view that he, like Hitchens, is unable to consider faith as anything but stupid. They show little understanding of religion or interest in it [see Daniel Lazare, "Among the Disbelievers," May 28]. Still, I am surprised by the hostility and bemusement expressed toward them by their fellow travelers in The New York Review of Books, The New Yorker and The London Review of Books. In attacking religion the four have been breaking the taboo against talking about it seriously, and they may be forgiven for not being calmer, more expert or more measured. Doing battle with what they see as the most pervasive and bothersome phenomenon in American life during the past generation, Harris, Dennett, Dawkins and Hitchens deserve praise for their courage and tenacity in shattering its spell.

Where does the work of the New Atheists leave us? I hope they have roused a significant portion of America from its timidity. But to what end? Living without God means turning toward something. To flourish we need coherent secular popular philosophies that effectively answer life's vital questions. Enlightenment optimism once supplied unbelievers with hope for a better world, whether this was based on Marxism, science, education or democracy. After Progress, after Marxism, is it any wonder atheism fell on hard times? Restoring secular confidence will take much positive work as well as the fierce attacks on religion by our atheist champions. On a societal level, as Ronald Inglehart and Pippa Norris point out in Sacred and Secular, living without God requires creating conditions in which people are free from the kinds of existential vulnerability that have marked all human societies until the advent of Europe's postindustrial welfare states. Markedly more religious than any of them, the United States provides a life that is far more unequal and far more insecure.

The surprising response to the New Atheist offensive should thus inspire us to think politically as well as philosophically. As a first step this demands creating a coalition between unbelievers and their natural allies, secular-minded believers. I am speaking first about many millions of Americans who nominally belong to a religion but effectively live without any active relationship either to it or to God, or belong to a church and attend services but are "tacit atheists," living day in and day out with only token reference to God. And I also include the many believers who accept the principle of America as a secular society. These include members of the liberal Jewish and Christian denominations, who have long practice in accommodating themselves to science and the modern world and who, as the National Council of Churches website tells us, may remain inspired by Genesis while not needing to take it in "literal, factual terms." Many of these turned up in the most significant finding of the Baylor survey, namely that more than one in four American "believers" does not mean by this a personal God at all but a distant God who has little or nothing to do with the world or themselves. This sounds very much like the deist God of "unbelievers" Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.

These believers, along with those who think of themselves as "spiritual," as well as professed unbelievers, help to explain why according to the Pew study so many Americans--32 percent--want less religious influence on government. Twenty-four percent say that President Bush talks too much about his religious faith and prayer, and 28 percent deny that the United States is a Christian nation. Most dramatically, a whopping 49 percent believe that Christian conservatives have gone too far "in trying to impose their religious values on the country." This, then, is an unreported secret of American life: Considerable numbers of Americans, religious and secular, are becoming fed up with the in-your-face religion that has come to mark our society.

Until now the most vocal left-of-center response to the Christian right, for example by Sojourners, has been to call for more religion in politics, not less. In early June the group organized a nationally televised forum at which John Edwards, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton testified to their faith, talking about the "hand of God" (Edwards), forgiveness (Obama) and prayer (Clinton). Few loud-and-clear voices have been agitating in the mainstream on behalf of the separation of church and state, for secular and public education, or demanding less rather than more political discussion of religion. Yet tens of millions of Americans worry about such things.

Whether most of them continue to believe in God matters much less than that they are comfortable with secular knowledge and America's secular Constitution. Barry Lynn, for example, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, is a Protestant minister. Although Harris and Dawkins castigate all believers for sharing the premises of conservative Christians, the fact is that many believers could easily be working with out-and-out atheists and agnostics on key issues.

Such a coalition should take the offensive on behalf of American constitutional promises of a secular society, increasingly under threat from Bush's Supreme Court appointments. It will gain support in unexpected places: Judge John Jones III, a Bush appointee, delivered a devastating blow to the forces behind "intelligent design" in his December 2005 decision in the Dover School Board case. The first half of his impressive decision contains a crystal-clear reflection on what science is and why intelligent design, a refurbished form of creationism, is religion, not science. The second half reads like a whodunit, revealing how a minority on the school board conspired to impose intelligent design on the district. It should be a rallying point for the nearly half of all Americans who are disturbed by right-wing religious attempts to impose their faith on the rest of us. An immediate goal should be a call for the publication and widest possible distribution of the Dover decision. It could become another bestseller--by a conservative judge no less!--and a text for civics, current events, history, law and basic science classes.

A second goal of such a coalition might be a campaign to reorient American thinking about atheists and atheism. In recent polls, far more respondents have declared themselves willing to vote for a woman or African-American for President than for an atheist--atheists are more unpopular than gays. Television news viewers are encouraged to nod in agreement with such ageless gibes as "There are no atheists in foxholes" without seeing just how nasty they are. This obnoxious remark, by Katie Couric on NBC's Today show, drew a few complaints and letters, but no wider protests or apology. A coalition determined to widen the range of socially acceptable belief could make a significant difference on such issues.

A broad secular coalition could also demand more nuanced discussion of the range of belief and unbelief in America today. Rather than consciously or unconsciously promoting religious belief, public opinion research should try to register a full range of beliefs, including the interesting and perplexing ways in which people live secular as well as religious lives and their sometimes contradictory combinations. These are rejected by Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens, and ignored by the media and mainstream politicians.

Finally, such an alliance could become one place where Dennett's goal of discussing religion openly and critically--as well as atheism and agnosticism--could begin to be realized. A number of questions might be explored: What, for example, is the common ground and what are the differences between believers and unbelievers? And--I save for last the touchiest question of all--shouldn't all Americans be instructed in the great religious and secular traditions, as well as their greatest books? After all, achieving literacy in both religion and secularism might allow us to discuss them more intelligently.

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1. Comment #49369 by SMART on June 11, 2007 at 4:30 pm

"shouldn't all Americans be instructed in the great religious and secular traditions"

Yes, and particularly with children, lets teach them ABOUT religion and make sure they are not indoctrinated INTO any one of them!

Faith schools = child abuse!

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2. Comment #49376 by alovrin on June 11, 2007 at 5:15 pm

 avatar
what are the differences between believers and unbelievers?

Um now let me see... what is that thing that gets in the way..kinda like an invisible fairy only bigger.
All joking aside, its an intelligent thoughtful article. Im just unsure about the possible solutions. I would be happy to work with anyone, just so long as I didnt have to hold hands and pray before the meeting.

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3. Comment #49378 by Thor on June 11, 2007 at 5:31 pm

 avatarI agree with pretty much everything Aronson writes - and I am usually a little cautious when it comes to The Nation.

This article is very comprehensive and well-balanced in its take on this whole, very complex issue of religion in society and the recent atheist response to it. In a rational and pragmatic tone Aronson points out the strengths as well as the weaknesses of Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens and draws a realistic picture of the situation of atheism in (American) society.

I am especially pleased that he pointed out the limited effect - in terms of low absolute numbers of people who read books - this recent boom will have, while not dismissing its significance in changing the political discourse. Too often I read comments where people go overboard in their euphoria over the recent publicity atheism has been getting and predict the imminent demise of religion. Although I sympathize with them and can understand where they are coming from this attitude is patently naive.

We often pride ourselves so much on a dependence on reason and rational discourse, but that should not blind us to one salient fact:
while reason is the indeed the most powerful and effective tool humans have to find their way in the world, our evolutionary setup has a myriad of irrationalities and atrophied instincts from bygone eras built in that homo sapiens will not be able to overcame completely.
Yes, we should strive for a more rationals society with less superstitious nonsense in it, but we should also try to keep our expectations realistic.

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4. Comment #49382 by Thunderance on June 11, 2007 at 5:56 pm

I agree with Thor, and this article does indeed present quite a few good arguments and is balanced.

The war on religion is an ideological war, and no form of violence or force-feeding of ideas will win us this war. Thus it perhaps is best to win a war through persuasion, hence justifying the need to temporarily ally with the secular believers.

However, it is only too reassuring to do so, believing that there are so few differences between us as they are but "tacit atheists". There is a large difference between us, actually. I think the fact that these people are 'tacit atheists' and not actual atheists is possibly due to the fact that they do not question the existence of God - they feel discomfort at the idea that he might not exist, and hence put the idea out of their heads.

This basic difference must be overcome - they must question, and start thinking more deeply about such issues, or this alliance will truly be a short one.

Indeed, the method we would use to fight this war will determine our victory or slide into obscurity. Personally, I believe that what we should be doing is constantly bringing up the atheist arguments, and to get ourselves recognized by society; to persist in writing books, stand up for our views, and push for our rights until society can deny us no more. We have to fight until society questions why we are, why we fight against religion so. We have to strip away the 'sacred' protection that religion has from discussion before the war can truly be fought.

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5. Comment #49383 by mjosef on June 11, 2007 at 5:59 pm

A broad secular coalition could also demand more nuanced discussion of the range of belief and unbelief in America today. Rather than consciously or unconsciously promoting religious belief, public opinion research should try to register a full range of beliefs, including the interesting and perplexing ways in which people live secular as well as religious lives and their sometimes contradictory combinations.

This is just pabulum. Where do we sign up for concert tickets for that "nuanced discussion"? What a rockin' good time that should be, if Americans can turn away form the TV and the cell phone and the Wal-Mart. Here's my rejoinder to the Nation's earnest liberal piety: I've had all the religious nuance a society can bloviate, and it's time to stop wasting time on nonsense. As I never get tired of quoting, Richard Dawkins wrote in TGD: "Life is too short to be concerned with one figment of the imagination and many." Aronson was condescending in here, though better than most.

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6. Comment #49384 by Russell Blackford on June 11, 2007 at 6:00 pm

Good article. I think it's terribly important to have powerful intellects challenging the very foundations of the moral authority claimed by religion, by challenging its supernaturalist premises. But there are certainly issues where many religious moderates will side with atheists/sceptics/blah blah. Plenty of scientifically-literate Christians would be horrified by the current attacks on evolutionary theory and by the irrational bioethical positions adopted by the Vatican.

It may be difficult to see how some of the people concerned are being absolutely consistent, and I realise that we care about truth, not just policy. But I'd actually settle, at least in the short term, for some rational policy. The problem that I see is how to go on attacking the foundations of religion (which I see as essential) while also working productively with moderates on at least some issues. In practice, this might be a balancing act - not impossible, but needing a lot of care.

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7. Comment #49399 by Beachbum on June 11, 2007 at 7:55 pm

 avatarIn general I am a very hard hitting Anti-theist, (just ask the many god-groupies that try to solicit memberships or donations at my door). But, even I can see the benefits of collaboration with the lesser evils of moderate or undecided devotees. My problem with this approach is when do we kick them off of the wagon and how much will it cost us from the point of view of intellectual honesty. I can hear it already,"But...but you agreed with us before...what?" Admittedly, I may be to fond of my ball bat for god stopping, style. I study indigenous peoples around the world and have seen first hand the devastation wrought by the purveyors of conversion. Also, being a student of history, may I point out that this is not the first time religion has come under fire. Although we have much more empirical evidence in our arsenal than our predecessors, lets not make the same (or more) mistakes as those brilliant men of note.

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8. Comment #49413 by TedWak on June 11, 2007 at 9:38 pm

Aronson's proposal is simple common sense. This struggle is mainly a political one and in keeping with America's traditional separation of church and state -- challenging attempts of a religion to influence government and society, and seeking harmony, justice and equality among a variety of communities and individuals.

Those here who hesitate or vaccilate seem to suggest another, unspoken "long-term" agenda that can't include beievers. Yes, to rid the world of faith, of course. But how does one do that within a liberal democracy, except through pursuasion and example? And how does one do that without understanding in some deeper way why believers believe?

All in the all, this "coalition" seems in everyone's best interests.

TW

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9. Comment #49420 by Shuggy on June 11, 2007 at 10:59 pm

 avatarMy only objection is to the phrase "New Atheists". What's new about it? What's the difference between the atheism of Dawkins and Hitchins and Harris and that of Russell and Ayer and Bradlaugh and Paine?

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10. Comment #49421 by Russell Blackford on June 11, 2007 at 11:11 pm

^When I asked the same question - what's so "new" about it? - in another forum I was given the correct answer by Blake Stacey. What's new is that it sells a lot of books.

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11. Comment #49431 by stereoroid on June 12, 2007 at 12:35 am

 avatarExcellent article: I particularly appreciate the emphasis on the connection between "existential insecurity" (poverty, violence) and the prevalence of religion. This was the sentiment expressed by Robert Burns in poems such as The Fall Of The Leaf - though it's not certain that Burns really felt that way.
Life is not worth having with all it can give-
For something beyond it poor man sure must live.
I think we're at the point now where we can look beyond "religion is a delusion" to more constructive debate. The last 1/3 of "The God Delusion" is a good place to start - you know, the part that the critics don't bother reading...

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12. Comment #49440 by roach on June 12, 2007 at 1:29 am

I like the term "The New Atheists". I think it sounds cool.

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13. Comment #49459 by gcdavis on June 12, 2007 at 2:49 am

 avatarWe atheists share certain characteristics, we subject our world to rational scrutiny; we take personal moral responsibility when making decisions; we don't mind being in a minority. We have become atheists by different routes, some having to break free of a religious upbringing, others like me, reared in a family who although only loosely christian, feared that without some "christian" values I might go off the rails. I dispensed with god aged eleven only to find that most of my family had been closet atheists or at least agnostic all along.

But what about believers, what is it that drives their dependency? The analogy to drug use is apposite; an addict thinks only of their next fix, the fear of life without it is so great so as to obscure any route out of their addiction. Marx got it just about right, (Karl not Groucho)! Of course this comparison will seem grossly exaggerated to many believers but I think the underlying psychology is similar. To consider life without god is for them unthinkable.

Another characteristic of the believer is the need for a strongly paternalistic figure, someone who is powerful, who exercises control, who makes the rules.

Both characteristics betray a lack of confidence, an infantile subservience that leads inevitably to the need to belong to the family of your god, which is essentially what religion is.

The "great" religions have exploited this to enslave generation after generation with the fear of god's wrath and the promise of his largesse in the form of an afterlife.

The narcotic effect of religious belief has always had the ability to inspire deep devotion and has resulted in most of the greatest works of art of the last 2000 years. Particularly to the christian, this art has provided a reassuring backdrop to their faith.

Finally comes complexity, the more we know about things the more complex we realise they are. This complexity means understanding our world and our place in it has become ever more difficult for the ordinary person. For the religious, complexity can be discounted, as god knows how it all works even if we do not.

If my description of belief is anywhere near correct then we will have to offer the faithful a route out of their addiction, great though they are, all RD and the new atheists can offer is a bout of cold turkey. I think we have to offer them something else, maybe it is simply the example of ordinary people like us living decent, fulfilled and caring lives without god.

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14. Comment #49472 by pewkatchoo on June 12, 2007 at 3:51 am

 avatargcdavis
I agree with most of what you say. However, you make the mistake of conflating religion with art. I think it is more a case of 'following the money'. The production of religious artifacts was a nice earner for artists through the ages. Why, are artists such as Monet, Renoir, van Gogh, Picasso the highest priced artists today? None of them produced any even remotely religious work. Certainly I would have a van Goch over a Botticini or Rubens.

The same can be said of music, literature, even architecture.

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15. Comment #49478 by gcdavis on June 12, 2007 at 4:22 am

 avatarpewkatchoo

I defend my comments about art, the devotion, albeit misplaced, can and does often result in an intensely emotional response particularly in music and poetry but also in sculpture and painting. I agree that religious patronage could be seen to sully the artists work and for many of the patrons the commission might well have been for the sake of personal aggrandisement but for many of the artists the emotions were genuine even if what inspired them was flawed.

Other Comments by gcdavis

16. Comment #49488 by CJ22 on June 12, 2007 at 4:58 am

 avatarThe main problem I have with some kind of detente with moderate theists is the very point Mr. Aronson pointed out - moderates refuse to condemn the basic premises of the fundies because they share them. The only difference between them is one of interpretation. When the worst your allie can say to your enemy is "Yeah I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you on some level, but...", well having a wet CofE vicar on your side isn't going to convince a rabid fundy that you might just have a point.

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17. Comment #49503 by pewkatchoo on June 12, 2007 at 7:23 am

 avatargcdavis
I would love to be able to travel back in time and have a wee chat with Caravaggio and ask him if he really, really believed all this religious twaddle or if he was only in it for the dosh.

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18. Comment #49511 by gcdavis on June 12, 2007 at 8:07 am

 avatarpewkatchoo

There can't have been many atheists in 1600, but no doubt Caravaggio benefited from a spending spree by Rome after the reformation. I think the devotional aspect is best expressed in music; Bach's St Mathews Passion for example always gives me goose bumps (even though I am really a John Coltrane man!) the emotion expressed is so intense that I can easily ignore the fact that his inspiration is bollocks.

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19. Comment #49514 by pewkatchoo on June 12, 2007 at 8:15 am

 avatargcdavis
Yes, there is no doubt that many of the great artists and composers of the past were religious. But I don't think it is their religion that gave them their talent. Bach probably would have produced beautiful music if he had been irreligious. Maybe inspired by looking at nature or the stars. Some of van Goch's most beautiful work was inspired by nothing so mundane as looking at his bedroom.

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20. Comment #49518 by gcdavis on June 12, 2007 at 8:40 am

 avatarpewkatchoo

Religion didn't give them their talent but did inspire them. Would you not agree that deep love for another human being can generate an intense emotional state familiar to many artists, especially poets and that religious devotion can inspire a similar state. Apart from talent is it not the intensity of that feeling that is present in all great art, no matter what inspired it?

I'm off to the pub in 15 mins for an early pint or three, nice debating with you.

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21. Comment #49526 by DrummerFry on June 12, 2007 at 9:09 am

 avatarI watched that program with Edwards, Obama, and Clinton. It was so damn annoying,lol.

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22. Comment #49528 by STLstrike3 on June 12, 2007 at 9:29 am

 avatarCan anyone provide me with the source for these data below? I would desperately like to obtain a hardcopy:

"After all, unbelievers are concentrated at the higher end of the educational scale--a recent Harris American poll shows that 31 percent of those with postgraduate education do not avow belief in God (compared with only 14 percent of those with a high school education or less). The percentage rises among professors and then again among professors at research universities, reaching 93 percent among members of the National Academy of Sciences."

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23. Comment #49529 by denoir on June 12, 2007 at 9:43 am

 avatarInteresting article which could be expanded a bit in terms of the international situation.

The author's argument that the atheists are an oppressed minority that finally have their voices heard doesn't hold for Europe - where TGD and the other 'new atheism' books are bestsellers as well.

I think that I speak for most Europeans when I say that the motivation for the anti-religion wave comes from the antics of the Bush administration.

It is a combination of becoming informed about stuff like the creationist movement and a worry about a reckless and aggressive foreign policy. It is the realisation that these nitwits think that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, think that Jesus will come back within their lifetime(i.e. end of the world wet dreams) and that they are armed with nuclear weapons.

That's how non-caring nonbelievers in Europe start realising that religion is not just some forgotten silliness from the past, but an active threat to human kind.

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24. Comment #49634 by Salvatore on June 12, 2007 at 4:38 pm

 avatarSTLstrike3,

RD in TGD gives some figures, but I can't tell if it's the same source. (index "National Academy of Science")

These are the citations he gives. (I typed them so there might be spelling errors):

E.J. Larson and L.Witham. Leading scientists still reject god. Nature 394, 1998, 313.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9610/reeves.html

Reeves, T.C. 1996. The empty church: the suicide of liberal Christianity. Simon & Schuster. NY.

You can try those. (I didn't look at them.)

Other Comments by Salvatore

25. Comment #49665 by cbelt on June 12, 2007 at 8:32 pm

It is encouraging to see an attempt at a realistic strategy for leveraging Atheism's momentum for political change in the US. As much as we like to dream about the complete demise of religion and its influence, I fear it is just a dream. For reasons we only partly understand, a lot of people are stubbornly religious, and that's not going to change soon, if ever. In the meantime, we need to protect our government's secular framework right now. Perhaps this coalition could accomplish this, not because liberal Christians are right about God, but because they also value reason and science over Biblical literalism and a liberal social agenda over the hatred exhibited by the Christian Right.

Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris have been hard on liberal Christians with good reason, and breaking the shell of politeness protecting religion has been cathartic. But maybe it's time to hold our noses and start thinking practically about building bridges to the liberal Christians who want many of the same things we do, and who, unlike us, are not shunned by the politicians. To do this, we would need to distinguish the realm of philosophy, where we could feel free to bash God-belief, from that of politics, where we would have to politely avoid the topic of god, at least for now, and focus on our common goals.

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26. Comment #49713 by mikeshin on June 13, 2007 at 5:46 am

Excellent article but I am getting a little frustrated when I keep seeing lines such as this one: "Living without God means turning toward something." No, it doesn't. Perhaps for someone who has been religious for a long time there may be a period of grieving or separation anxiety where they may turn to 'something' but some of us have never had a god.

I have never had a 'god' in my life and yet I have no hole or void to fill and I have not had to 'turn' to anything. I just live my life, pretty successfully too!

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27. Comment #51025 by Shrunk on June 21, 2007 at 7:29 am

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Religion didn't give them their talent but did inspire them. Would you not agree that deep love for another human being can generate an intense emotional state familiar to many artists, especially poets and that religious devotion can inspire a similar state. Apart from talent is it not the intensity of that feeling that is present in all great art, no matter what inspired it?


Dawkins addressed this issue in a debate that was linked here. I can't recall his exact words, but the gist of the argument was that artists had to go where the money was, and for much of the past it was the Church that had all the money. He went on to say that we will never know what would have happened if Michelangelo had painted the ceiling of the Museum of Science, or if Handel composed a Jurassic Oratorio. Nowadays, of course, most of the great architectural masterpieces are produced for commercial or cultural institutions.

None of this is to say that I doubt that Bach, for example, was sincere in his religious beliefs. OTOH, Beethoven was at best lukewarm to religion, and his Missa Solemnis was probably composed for the pleasure of his patron and to establish his own position in the grand tradition of liturgical choral music, rather than being an expression of personal religious faith.

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