The Great God Debate

1. Comment #50042 by CanadAdam on June 14, 2007 at 5:01 pm

audio links to save on reading:

part 1

http://boss.streamos.com/download/townhall/audio/mp3/c2485c8a-747c-4104-a42c-18fb0c62b22d.mp3

part 2

http://boss.streamos.com/download/townhall/audio/mp3/f8fbd28f-f96c-4276-8929-91c4dede684e.mp3

part 3

http://boss.streamos.com/download/townhall/audio/mp3/79afc6d8-c1ea-4df5-9594-460b8fc8cb1c.mp3

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2. Comment #50046 by Angieruns on June 14, 2007 at 5:18 pm

If Dr. Roberts has imparted anything "intelligible, noble, and inspiring," it was not included herein. Instead, he has demonstrated, as most deluded people do, that to make claims based on faith is to eschew critical thought in favor of mythology.

Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster for Christopher Hitchens!

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3. Comment #50051 by scooternyc on June 14, 2007 at 5:57 pm

I've listened to this debate several times over the past week and Roberts really makes a fool of himself with some of these answers.

"If I put on my historian hat….but if I put on my believer hat…"

if this isn't the greatest piece of evidence toward the sham of religion I don't know what is – to actually say that you have to suspend your logic/reason in order to believe in something – you've got to be kidding me.

Roberts didn't come up with one act or utterance that could be made by someone of faith that someone who wasn't of faith, couldn't do.

It occurred to me that god is like living with a dad who's an alcoholic – you can never do anything right, he's nice one moment and angry the next, no matter how great you try to be you'll never measure up, you're responsible for everything that goes wrong, you can never be good enough, everything is his way or the highway(death in hell), you have to feign behavior trying to get in good favor with him, you're responsible for things that you had nothing to with, you get blamed for the brokenness of the world, you'll never be good enough. Oh, I said that, but it was worth saying again.

The other thing I think is hilarious, Roberts says that the world is broken and god wants it back together and he wants humans to take part in that restructure. You're kidding right?

If this god were so amazing to have created the universe then please tell me how he doesn't just clap his hands and it's back to where it should be! Give me a break.

And if this god was all knowing, wouldn't he have already known that Adam was going to eat of the apple and screw it all up?

Hitchens was amazing, as always. I practically worship this guy and his level of intelligence; if there was a god I hope he would be like Hitchens.

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4. Comment #50056 by joekoz451 on June 14, 2007 at 7:24 pm

Hitchens as god ... now THAT'S irony!

I can hear the response now ... "If nominated I will not run. If elected, I will not serve."

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5. Comment #50064 by J Steven on June 14, 2007 at 7:46 pm

At the very end, Roberts makes the following comment: "The thing that I believe is that if one has a faith basis for morality, in fact, there is even greater warrant."

This quote points to a central point that I think is part of the key to appealing to the non-fundamentalist believer (or liberal or whatever you want to label it). Essentially, Roberts is saying "Well, you're good but your good is tenuous. MY good is rock-solid because God says so."

A lot of people are only nominally believers. It seems to me that they are that only because they seem to think of being religious as an intrinsic good. Many, including myself and others on this site of course feel the exact opposite. The key is that we not only have to raise the consciousness of others about religiosity and faith, but change the moral labeling of religiousity and faith.

For example, many "normal" people thought NOTHING AT ALL of slavery in the early history of the United States. Some even thought of it as good because the slaves were somehow better off being taken care of by their masters. Nowadays anyone professing such a view would be seen by others (rightly) as either an irredeemable bigot or hopeless naif.

This is the same thing we, and I do mean we, must do to the idea of faith. Hitchens says it most clearly of anyone in professing to be an "anti-theist". It is not simply the absence of belief (think the typical, white, citizen of the early U.S. regarding slavery with little to no opinion on the matter) but a direct opposition to a harmful idea (think the abolitionists who raised the consciousness of the citizenry).

Most people have probably not received a progressive alternative to religion. It is up to us to create one.