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Of course most of the greatest philosophers etc. were religious. They lived without the knowledge that we have descended from apes. Now that it is less taboo to disbelieve, I think you will find that the most qualified people to speak on the origins of life (scientists)do not believe in god.3. Comment #51492 by nancy2001 on June 23, 2007 at 5:48 am
It's almost a waste of time to read these types of articles. What on earth could a bishop possibly say? "There is no god, and religion should disappear." Fat chance.4. Comment #51497 by bitbutter on June 23, 2007 at 6:16 am
5. Comment #51500 by Friend Giskard on June 23, 2007 at 6:26 am
Hitchens has written a book that is seriously harmful...
6. Comment #51507 by GBile on June 23, 2007 at 7:05 am
Again 'the man is a sinner' myth:But even if religion did disappear, which of course it won't, we human beings would still be here, organised in groups of various kinds, still beset by the same lack of self-knowledge, viciousness and moral weakness.
7. Comment #51508 by Mario07 on June 23, 2007 at 7:16 am
"First, he redefines in his own terms what it is to be a Christian."8. Comment #51511 by PrimeNumbers on June 23, 2007 at 7:28 am
9. Comment #51512 by NoLongerHaveBelief on June 23, 2007 at 7:38 am
Hi Prime.10. Comment #51517 by TIKI AL on June 23, 2007 at 8:09 am
"But how is it that the majority of the world's great philosophers, composers, scholars, artists and poets have been believers, often of a very devout kind?"11. Comment #51524 by poppythinks on June 23, 2007 at 9:07 am
12. Comment #51526 by ricey on June 23, 2007 at 9:17 am
Religion is rooted in our capacity to recognise and appreciate value; in our search for truth; in our recognition that some things are good in themselves
13. Comment #51533 by pewkatchoo on June 23, 2007 at 9:49 am
14. Comment #51539 by RickM on June 23, 2007 at 10:11 am
15. Comment #51544 by chadvader123 on June 23, 2007 at 10:49 am
"Hitchens has written a book that is seriously harmful, not because of his attack on religion, some of it deserved, but because he will divert people away from the real problem: which is we human beings, both religious and irreligious."16. Comment #51546 by robert s on June 23, 2007 at 10:59 am
Chad, if someone asserts 'A implies B', you saying 'Ah-ha, but not A does not imply not B, does it? DOES IT!' does not rebut their argument in the slightest.17. Comment #51573 by Patrick McArdle on June 23, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Well, the original article was pretty much garbage, but it did provide us with a strawman-bashing entertainer:18. Comment #51583 by 601 on June 23, 2007 at 2:08 pm
...because religion is such a crucial marker of identity, it can be used...To say religion is a first-order cause of unethical behavior is misleading.
19. Comment #51585 by the great teapot on June 23, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Northern Ireland was a political battle between Ulster Unionists and Irish Republicans. The Terms Catholics and Protestants were just convenient identity markers. No religious leaders, say with the title Reverend, would ever seek to gain from the situation, surely.20. Comment #51586 by DingoDave on June 23, 2007 at 2:52 pm
21. Comment #51591 by Nails on June 23, 2007 at 3:25 pm
He seems to think that religion is the root of all evil. It isn't. The problem lies with us, especially when we are organised in groups with a dominant ideology, whether secular or religious
22. Comment #51592 by MarkSmith on June 23, 2007 at 3:34 pm
23. Comment #51600 by Dr Benway on June 23, 2007 at 5:11 pm
He seems to think that religion is the root of all evil. It isn't.I've said it before: Sure, religion can seem like just a bit of fun and games. Until someone looses an eye.
The problem lies with us, especially when we are organised in groups with a dominant ideology, whether secular or religious.Religion makes ordinary, natural xenophobia - which is often somewhat malleable - into something that can never change, because the divide between the saved and unsaved is eternal.
24. Comment #51617 by lpetrich on June 23, 2007 at 7:45 pm
25. Comment #51621 by TheCelestialTeapot on June 23, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Excuse me for saying so, but I find it troubling that all of us clear-thinking, open-minded, rationalists get swept up in the fervent and over-zealous denunciation of religion. For those of you who can see that Mr. Hitchens is merely swooping in on the tail-end of a movement of intellectuals superior to himself in order to sell a book, I commend you; and for those of you who cannot justifiably see the difference between someone such as Mr. Hitchens and say, a Dan Dennett, I am ashamed. This article is certainly not correct in all of the points that it makes, but it draws out some interesting questions. Things, that I believe, are worth considering. Certainly we are all angered when Dr. Dawkins, given his knowledge and position, is attacked by silly ad hominem and straw men fallacies, but then why is it so common on this website that the same mistakes are made? If we truly want the dialogue to progress and move forward toward the point of change, then I suggest that everyone begin thinking for themselves rather than have Dawkins, or whoever, do it for them.26. Comment #51648 by Big T on June 24, 2007 at 12:02 am
All organized religions cause harm. Humanity has never realized this, but we are on the verge of a breakthrough, I think (and hope). In the future, I hope, religion will still be around but will be much less influential than it is now. Let us all work for this end. Everyone free to believe whatever they choose, but no official state religions, no compulsion to pretend to worship anyone or anything. In ALL countries, all the time.27. Comment #51653 by Beachbum on June 24, 2007 at 12:39 am
28. Comment #51739 by Duff on June 24, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Lets see if I have this right, Bishop. Some atheists are bad too, so, its not fair to criticize religion. I don't think you get it. Is it29. Comment #51799 by Patrick McArdle on June 25, 2007 at 3:14 am
"Excuse me for saying so, but I find it troubling that all of us clear-thinking, open-minded, rationalists get swept up in the fervent and over-zealous denunciation of religion."30. Comment #51801 by Philip1978 on June 25, 2007 at 3:20 am
31. Comment #51817 by wice on June 25, 2007 at 5:58 am
does the vaccinations against illnesses prevent you to be run over by a bus? no? well, then it's useless, and even the suggestion is dangerous and harmful! btw, how is that all great thinkers and artists in the human history have experienced some kind of illness? these goddamn doctors try to destroy art and human knowledge.32. Comment #51819 by Dr Benway on June 25, 2007 at 6:10 am
Excuse me for saying so, but I find it troubling that all of us clear-thinking, open-minded, rationalists get swept up in the fervent and over-zealous denunciation of religion.Many segregationists are nice people who mean no harm to the negros. It's a small minority who are out burning crosses. Why do people here paint all segregationists with the same brush?
33. Comment #51971 by coastalguy on June 25, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Along the lines of the bishop sifting the bible for pillar items to justify his occupation, I do wonder myself at the origins of the wisdom found in some of the texts. What were the source writings/learnings of these biblical authors who did occasion to write inspiring text. I am not a believer by the way but I would like to be referred to perhaps some reading material of the origins of their moral writings that ended up in the bible.34. Comment #51996 by Bayle on June 25, 2007 at 9:10 pm
"But how is it that the majority of the world's great philosophers..."35. Comment #52071 by bamboospitfire on June 26, 2007 at 5:00 am
36. Comment #52128 by TheCelestialTeapot on June 26, 2007 at 8:41 am
To Patrick McArdle37. Comment #52677 by Friggertool on June 27, 2007 at 5:37 pm
38. Comment #52762 by robhowe on June 28, 2007 at 3:01 am
Inadvertently or wilfully, Baron Harries makes the mistake of accusing Hitchens of attacking and alienating people rather than people's misguided beliefs. Belief is not an integral part of its holder. Beliefs can change. To assume that they cannot, and that we must continue to pander to those who promulgate baseless nonsense or the world will become more dangerous, is an act of craven intellectual cowardice.39. Comment #54065 by Tintern on July 5, 2007 at 6:58 am
"this capacity to recognise, appreciate and respond to what is of worth that religion has its origin. If "submission and surrender" have a place, it is only in the final insight"40. Comment #55373 by Graham on July 10, 2007 at 9:03 pm
1. Comment #51480 by Macho Nachos on June 23, 2007 at 5:10 am
Uhuh. And if the moderates don't realise that the fundies/fanatics are actually bad?
"Similarly, the philosophical arguments of Kant or Hume or Aquinas and the aesthetic judgments of Plato or Augustine can and ought to be considered in their own right, irrespective of the limitations of their scientific knowledge."
Haven't we heard this one before?
"The problem lies with us, especially when we are organised in groups with a dominant ideology, whether secular or religious."
YES! How can you write this and NOT realise that Hitchens is writing about the bad things done by people who follow organised group with a dominant religious ideology? It's a straw man to suggest that Hitchens thinks that without religion, there wouldn't be bad people, or that dogma would be a good thing. *sighs*
Other Comments by Macho Nachos