1. Comment #52175 by MIND_REBEL on June 26, 2007 at 12:18 pm

I like Fox News, but that was a very stupid clip.

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2. Comment #52179 by gornhay on June 26, 2007 at 12:25 pm

Oh, i forgot about the "miracle of childbirth".

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3. Comment #52183 by alfonso on June 26, 2007 at 12:38 pm

I have atheist friends! I very much doubt it!

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4. Comment #52185 by carnitine on June 26, 2007 at 12:44 pm

"I like Fox News..."

Uh... why?

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5. Comment #52187 by Rtambree on June 26, 2007 at 12:50 pm

"...explain the incredible geological reality"?

Huh?

300 years ago, most Americans believed slavery was fine. Does majority opinion ensure the validity of propositions?

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6. Comment #52188 by xdrive on June 26, 2007 at 12:50 pm

The mouthpiece said, "People like me, quite honestly, are buying these books to see what is it that makes these minds tick!" Then maybe he should go one step further and actually "read" them as well.

And I wonder what "incredible geological reality" Atheists are missing out on.

Fox News: It's not WHAT you say, but how LOUDLY you say it that makes the difference!

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7. Comment #52192 by Bremas on June 26, 2007 at 12:55 pm

Rtambree, xdrive
beat me to it.

"How do we explain the incredible geologic reality out there?"??????

am now officially banging head against wall.

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8. Comment #52196 by konquererz on June 26, 2007 at 12:59 pm

Jesus H! Are you kidding me? He used the eye argument, refuted years and years ago, every thing he said was false and ridiculous?

So many believe says something? The miracle of the birth will change some others mind? Are these people legally retarded? Hold people to their field, its bad science to analyze faith? This guys is an idiot, but he is right up the alley of most believers who will stand up and say "thats what I'm talking about!"

Every time I hear an apologist it makes me faint with the sheer lunacy of this all! What ever happened to "it takes faith, and I just have faith"? Now they come up with answers but none of them make a lick of sense.

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9. Comment #52198 by MIND_REBEL on June 26, 2007 at 1:02 pm

I like Fox news much better than CNN. Liberalism/Socialism is basically just another religion just without the revelation.

It's great to see some conservative freethinkers like Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens take the spotlight in the war on unreason, including liberalism.

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10. Comment #52199 by oxytocin on June 26, 2007 at 1:04 pm

Everyone: his email address is displayed on the screen...let's make use of it! I think we should take the opportunity to let him know what we think of his persuasive arguments.

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11. Comment #52200 by Lana on June 26, 2007 at 1:05 pm

Sure, polls may show that 90% of people believe in god. But they disagree on exactly who it is and what he says. And I suppose one could speculate there might be a supreme being by observing all the wonders in life. But where is Father John finding evidence of his particular religion; the one involving virgin birth, resurrection, transubstantiation etc.? Oh, never mind.

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12. Comment #52206 by Spinoza on June 26, 2007 at 1:16 pm

Do we have to repeat ourselves over and over and over and over?

There are TWO arguments that atheists make.

1. God doesn't exist.
2. Religion is harmful/deleterious/bad.

(1) is a philosophical claim, usually a denial of a particular KIND or conception of God... say, because of illogical attributes (i.e. the problem of evil).

(2) IS A SCIENTIFICALLY TESTABLE POINT. This is the case made by Dan Dennett (who deserves WAY more credit than he has gotten lately... 64,000 copies of his book sold? What the fuck is wrong with you people... buy it AND TGD...)... that RELIGION is a social behaviour that can be studied, analyzed, critiqued, etc.

This has nothing to do with whether God exists. Even if God did exist, there would be good cause for declaring at least some religions (if not all, immediately) bad, or at least, some aspects (many of which are central).

Please for fuck's sake... these people are STUPID, but they're not permanently stupid. Let's not make it easier for them to fight back by conflating (1) and (2).

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13. Comment #52209 by Happy Hominid on June 26, 2007 at 1:24 pm

"Why is it that the atheists are posing as the intellectuals"?

Ummm, because no one is posing. It's simply been demonstrated over and over and over that the higher your intellect, the more likely that you will not have blind faith.

I think she really needs to THINK about her question and how it applies to her. Or maybe she has and would like a different answer than the one reason offers.

Personally I find Fox a distasteful disgrace of a network and never watch unless someone like RD or CH or SH are appearing there. I really wish they wouldn't, but I understand the need to push the books. I try to boycott the network and wish every thoughtful person would. It's the only way you have of "voting" on them.

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14. Comment #52210 by MIND_REBEL on June 26, 2007 at 1:31 pm

For all you bashing FoxNews-Compare the way Dawkins & Sam Harris were treated on the Bill O Riely show vs CNN's horriblely biased piece on atheists.

It's time to wake up and realize the truth.

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15. Comment #52213 by js5535 on June 26, 2007 at 1:33 pm

"Miracle of childbirth"
As in a screaming bloody infant painfully squeezing out of a woman's vagina, followed by a fleshy placenta? That has divine fingerprints all over it.

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16. Comment #52217 by happyatheist on June 26, 2007 at 1:49 pm

"For all you bashing FoxNews-Compare the way Dawkins & Sam Harris were treated on the Bill O Riely show vs CNN's horriblely biased piece on atheists.

It's time to wake up and realize the truth."

LOLOL! I guess you like what you like. Think for yourself.

But have you not seen "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN? Dobbs is the biggest champion of separation of church and state...even had a few atheists as guests...and he's neither liberal nor conservative.

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17. Comment #52223 by pewkatchoo on June 26, 2007 at 2:07 pm

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I cannot believe that there are so many stupid people out there in a position of such authority and control over media. This just should not be possible in the modern world. Every time I see something like this I think that we are regressing even further and I think that maybe the argument for evolution also works in reverse. I am glad that someday I will die and will not have to put up with human stupidity any more. All it needs now is for the fucking wee flea to put in an appearance and say how much he loved this piece.

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18. Comment #52227 by TimHill on June 26, 2007 at 2:15 pm

Oh my god, that is funny. And to think this is actually news.

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19. Comment #52228 by yogibear on June 26, 2007 at 2:15 pm

He should debate Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris or Dennett and then he can put forward his "good science" reasons for the existence of a god. I think this priest doesn't understand Science period.

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20. Comment #52234 by 3ddm on June 26, 2007 at 2:34 pm

Incredibly dumb interview - but hey, it may end up selling a few more books and if we get one convert...
As for the idea of atheism being a fad?!?!
When I was 9 I got an Evel Knievel stunt bike. At about the same time I also figured out for myself that all this god stuff was about as real as the Santa that had 'brought' me the bike.
Guess which of those faddy 'gifts' has stayed with me the longest...

Free thought is for life not just for Christmas :)

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21. Comment #52236 by silent_brook on June 26, 2007 at 2:36 pm

That was five minutes I'll never get back...

You knew that nothing was going to be gained by listening to him when he made the statement, "[Atheists] suffer their atheism, I would say, they suffer the fact that they don't believe, because they know the world makes a whole lot more sense if God does exist."

If that wasn't bad enough, he continued to rattle off all of the trite, easily disproved arguments for faith (except the geological reality thing which I should think opposes his position).

The only other thing I want to say is that the woman's question made me laugh: "Why is it that there is this sort of posturing in the media of atheists as the intellectuals?" Answer: because they are.

Oh, and I've known a few pregnant women, and I know they don't see pregnancy as a miracle.

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22. Comment #52241 by PrimeNumbers on June 26, 2007 at 2:48 pm

What an absolute moron who hasn't read the books he's claimed to have. To parrot the old "eye is too complex" is to show his gross stupidity. To claim Atheists just want to believe is perhaps more of an example of the problem's going on in his mind. It's a manefestation of his own inadequacies. Because most of the people on this planet don't beleive in his god, that makes him vulnerable. He's complaining about this books as they hurt him as they diminish his faith and power. He's scared. Those 10% of Americans who think he's a moron, an idiot are very telling. Those 10% are undeniably brighter than he is.

As for Atheists sticking to science - fair enough, we'll use science and all that's good about the modern way of life, and he can stick to his speciality - Bullshit. Science however can rationally talk of religion. It can test the power of prayer, it can test supposed miracles. Mathematics and logic and science can prove beyond reasonable doubt that he's wrong and we're not. What a moron.

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23. Comment #52243 by LB on June 26, 2007 at 2:55 pm

This sort of thing never ceases to amaze me

Quite astonishing ignorance

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24. Comment #52254 by carnitine on June 26, 2007 at 3:23 pm

Sam Harris isn't terribly conservative. Sure, conservatives are willing to identify Islam as the problem in the middle east, which many liberals won't do, but that's born out of conservative bigotry more than logic.

I'm a social liberal but take the conservative view on that point, just like Sam Harris. That doesn't make either of us conservatives.

Fox News is a propaganda machine. CNN isn't great either, but comparing the best of Fox to the worst of CNN isn't an honest arguement.

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25. Comment #52259 by slunk34 on June 26, 2007 at 3:25 pm

Am I the only one who is greatly encouraged by the religious dogmatists' claims that only the faithful are buying these books by dawkins, et al? To me it smacks of panicked desperation - they realize that the sales figures could give fence-sitters pause, be a catalyst for some potentially free-thinking people to give a look and see what the fuss with reason and logic is all about. I've been noticing it more and more recently, especially when hitchens stepped in and ratcheted it up another notch, like he does so well.

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26. Comment #52276 by Lil_Xunzian on June 26, 2007 at 3:52 pm

The miracle of childbirth? Hmmm. My grandfather was an atheist, and he witnessed the birth of my father, my aunt, and my two uncles. Nope, didn't change his mind, he still had enough conviction to make an atheist out of my father. Speaking of which, my father was there for me and my sister, and the experience didn't convert him to theism. Looking at this pattern, I have a good feeling that "the miracle of childbirth" won't cause me and my sister to break with precedent when/if we have kids.
When I hear people stick up for god like this after they (allegedly) read Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc., I get the feeling that their reading skills must be wanting.

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27. Comment #52283 by fin on June 26, 2007 at 4:04 pm

Primenumbers:

Oh, and I've known a few pregnant women, and I know they don't see pregnancy as a miracle.

What if they were living in Israel 2000 years ago, not married, and would at least be disgraced, and maybe stoned to death?

Which is more likely:

1. Maria became pregnant as described in the bible.
2. Maria/Josef/someone lied.


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28. Comment #52284 by Shuggy on June 26, 2007 at 4:04 pm

The miracle of childbirth!? Is he (or was it she) kidding!? Tell that to all the millions of mothers and babies who have died in childbirth because peripelvic birth hasn't kept up with our enlarged cranium or bipedality.

See also
http://jitcrunch.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoxMzdfRl9vMS5qcGd8bG9hZD1MMCxodHRwOi8vaW1hZ2VzLmNhZmVwcmVzcy5jb20vaW1hZ2UvMTUyOTI2MjNfNDAweDQwMC5qcGd8fHNjYWxlPUwwLDM1NSwyNTYsV2hpdGV8Y29tcG9zZT1ibGFuayxMMCxBZGQsNjIsMTEyfGxvYWQ9bWFzayxibGFuazoxMzdfRl9tYXNrX28xLmpwZ3xjb21wb3NlPWJsYW5rLG1hc2ssTWFzaywwLDB8Y3A9cmVzdWx0LGJsYW5rfHNjYWxlPXJlc3VsdCwwLDQ4MCxXaGl0ZXxjb21wcmVzc2lvbj05NXw=

(or http://www.cafepress.com/wero.82544823)

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29. Comment #52286 by krogercomplete on June 26, 2007 at 4:11 pm

My favorite part was at the very beginning when the dude introduced the subject: as soon as he said the word "atheist," the blonde goes "hmmmmmm" with a cute shit eating grin on her face. I actually shit when I saw it.

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30. Comment #52296 by aznxscorpion517 on June 26, 2007 at 4:30 pm

Atheists like Richard Dawkins are PUSHING their ideas into the general public? Does this guy think hard enough?

All these New Atheists are doing are selling books. If you don't want to buy it then don't. It's not the same as evangelicals knocking on your door and telling you you'll go to hell if you don't join them. Or pushing your beliefs on to others through politics.

This guy needs to think straight and realize the side he is on might be a hypocrite.

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31. Comment #52302 by Alkal on June 26, 2007 at 4:59 pm

The guys actually says "these scientists" refering to atheists. So he does admit that religious people are non-scientfic?
"90%of Americans blieve, so it must be so" as if the rest of the world does not matter.

"miracle of childbirth" Its Faux News alright.

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32. Comment #52303 by Alkal on June 26, 2007 at 5:02 pm

ANd I respect George CLooney more!

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33. Comment #52304 by Donald on June 26, 2007 at 5:02 pm

I thought this item was great.

For several seconds it showed nothing but a picture of the God Delusion book (long enough for fox news viewers to read the title).

Then "Father Jonathan" says people like him buy the book.

Then he goes on to make controversial statements while fox news shows a video of muslims praying alongside.

Random House couldn't do better if they were paying for it.

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34. Comment #52310 by Mok on June 26, 2007 at 5:23 pm

Atheism a fad?? That brainwasher in a black suit is a complete and utter moron. The faux news crew did very well by not drooling on camera. Kudos!

Other Comments by Mok

35. Comment #52316 by heafnerj on June 26, 2007 at 5:48 pm

Sadly, most (certainly not all) Americans who watch this will believe every single word. This piece is a "poster child" for logical fallacies and I just may use it in my classes this fall. To me, this is an attempt by a government propganda outlet to once again discredit intellectualism and science and to make the pious think they're superior. It will probably work too.

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36. Comment #52321 by Pieter on June 26, 2007 at 6:01 pm

i am reminded of a quote, from the film Billy Madison no less:

[Father Morris], what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

but Clooney and Jolie are atheists. sweet deal.

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37. Comment #52322 by GodlessHeathen on June 26, 2007 at 6:01 pm

Suffering their atheism? I think this fool's delusions are not limited to belief in a god.

Anyone here suffering their atheism? Anyone? Buller?

I thought not. Load of crap it was, and I think we aught write in demanding that someone better versed in what's going on in countries like the US and the UK (and most of Europe if I'm not mistaken) comment about this trend. Hint: They won't come from Vatican City.

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38. Comment #52326 by arthursanford on June 26, 2007 at 6:21 pm

Chris Hitchens and Sam Harris are conservatives-- puhleeze!

Liberalism is a religion-- And conservatism isn't?

Whatever...

Other Comments by arthursanford

39. Comment #52328 by phasmagigas on June 26, 2007 at 6:22 pm

the 'eye' comment, why the hell do they always use the eye, why not use the most complex object in the universe instead (includes the eye anyway, I think?) the brain, or even some other random complex organ: a pitcher plant tube leaf, a chloroplast, a sphincter, a mollusc radula, bringing in less familiar objects might just confuse the issue for them i suppose, well they'd still nod and smile in agreement.

Other Comments by phasmagigas

40. Comment #52331 by Enlightenme.. on June 26, 2007 at 6:44 pm

^The eye? again already, these people need to be told about the digger wasp, that cannot have come about 'by accident' now cannit?

The comment that got me though was the airhead 'miracle of childbirth' f'kn priceless, Shuggy (#28) beat me to it what I was gonna say, so I'll just tell you how painful it is to watch my mother shrink before my eyes because me and my siblings robbed her of calcium in a less scientifically informed time.

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41. Comment #52332 by VJocys on June 26, 2007 at 6:58 pm

Criminals like idea, widely promoted by Christians, that you can be released from sins, for example like "killing", by ...killing :) innocent person – very logical theory :). Especially when that innocent person is God – oh... such catchy idea - kill God, maybe, would not resist even Richard Dawkins :). I am sure, that he could kill even few Gods per day. So, maybe for that reason Christ legend is so popular. With years no one became innocent. So we can be released from our sins and any bastard, who's innocence near us make us feel bad and guilty, stabbing our eyes ...just with one shot ...or three big nails and piece of wood :).

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42. Comment #52333 by 1town on June 26, 2007 at 6:59 pm

If Dawkins is supposed to refrain from commenting on religion, this "father" should most definatly refrain from commenting on anything outside of theology. I mean, the eye argument? C'mon...

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43. Comment #52340 by PeterK on June 26, 2007 at 7:29 pm

I'm sure everyone in my building heard me scream as if I was being stretched on a middle-age rack when he started doing that complex human eye-thing thing. I am afraid however these cliche arguments will always be around as long large masses of people find them convincing.

Other Comments by PeterK

44. Comment #52341 by Crazymalc on June 26, 2007 at 7:32 pm

Did the good father even read TGD? It doesn't seem so.

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45. Comment #52346 by HAMMERHEAD on June 26, 2007 at 8:12 pm

I emailed Father Jonathan the following:

After watching your outrageously silly stint on Fox and Friends recently, I felt it was my duty as an informed and enlightened person to help pull you out of the dark ages. Superstitious beliefs in the invisible creator and controller of everything (who, according to the book that all of this nonsense is centered around, couldn't keep tabs on the only 2 people on the entire flat planet) is nothing more than primitive-minded, fear-based, drivel.

Several million years of evolution explains the complexity of the eye. There is much research on the matter. I suggest looking into it. Geological reality? OK. That's another huge check-mark in the atheist column. Are you talking fossil records? Plate-tectonics? Strata? No matter; the evidence is overwhelming.

Atheists are often portrayed as intellectuals because, most often, they are among the most intelligent and knowledgeable people on this truncated spheroid we call earth.

Are you at all interested in the truth? Or, does it benefit you more to perpetuate the lies of religious mythology? If you get on TV and talk to some faith-head half-wits for 5 minutes (what happened to fair and balanced, by the way?) you get to make your points and the fools who watch that mind-vacuum of a network get their reinforcement for what is comfortable to them. When it's all said and done, you continue to get a nice paycheck for either being a charlatan or a lummox. I'll let you decide which one you are.

Dave

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46. Comment #52353 by windweaver on June 26, 2007 at 8:33 pm

Mindrebel, your rant against liberalism/socialism is illogical. You need to start reading authors like Chomsky and gain a clearer perspective on what it means to be left-wing. Check this out for starters:
http://www.zmag.org/Zmag/articles/may01barsamian.htm

Other Comments by windweaver

47. Comment #52366 by Wogtopus on June 26, 2007 at 9:33 pm

Hmmm... He's kinda hot for a padre.

Other Comments by Wogtopus

48. Comment #52369 by Lauregon on June 26, 2007 at 9:51 pm

Amazing to realize there are people who voluntarily choose to watch such drivelish pap on a regular basis. And that priest? Is he some type of mold-injected, pull-string Mattel action figure?

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49. Comment #52386 by Apemanblues on June 27, 2007 at 12:21 am

I couldn't believe that he used the 'complexity of the eye' argument and then she went on to mention 'Childbirth' (does she have any idea why it is so painful?). Then I remembered that this is Fox.

Helloooooo? Darwin? Anyone? Beardy guy obsessed with worms? Remember him?

Morons!

Other Comments by Apemanblues

50. Comment #52391 by rokort on June 27, 2007 at 12:33 am

Next week on Faux News: The War on Atheism!

"Since getting Osama out of his cave is just a matter of time and we made Iraq into a well-oiled democracy, now is your chance to be a true patriot: keep on shooting!"

Killing reason is serious business. Some call it politics. Just one way to keep fools in check.

This video was not a pleasant start of the day.

Other Comments by rokort