









Won't anyone stand up for God?2. Comment #54472 by gordon on July 7, 2007 at 11:25 am
3. Comment #54473 by Logicel on July 7, 2007 at 11:29 am
4. Comment #54474 by PaulJ on July 7, 2007 at 11:31 am
Just for good measure he adds: 'A misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal megalomaniac and capriciously malevolent bully.' Does he think anyone believes in a God like that today?Dawkins is quite right to think that (though he has said elsewhere that this was put in partly for comic effect). Only the other day the Bishop of Carlisle said that the recent floods in England were God's judgement on declining moral standards, with a particular reference to homosexuals.
But Hitchens and Dawkins fulminate as though every believer has to accept wildly improbably episodes as 'gospel' along with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, which are the heart of the matter.The improbable episodes are in the same book as the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. How, exactly, are readers supposed to discriminate?
But, say the atheists, it all came about by chance, thanks to millions of amazing coincidences, without any God-like creating principle behind them. Strictly speaking science invites us to believe not in a God but in the gambler's goddess - Lady Luck.May I suggest perusal of Douglas Adams' explanation of the anthropic priniciple? To quote:
This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in - an interesting hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.Adams, as usual, has an illuminating take on things.
Without faith - belief beyond evidence - life would be unlivable. Imagine taking a journey without faith - faith in an unknown driver, faith that there will not be an accident. You would never leave home.Actually, when I take a journey I don't know there won't be an accident. But I can look at the probabilities, and make a judgement. I don't pray that there won't be one. This is a silly example.
I know of only one: Oxford professor of theology Alister McGrath - who is also a bio-physicist - who has made a substantial refutation.I've not read McGrath's book, but the arguments I've heard him give, including in his (subsequently cut) discussion with Richard Dawkins intended for Channel 4's The Root of All Evil? struck me as puerile.
It is time for some honest debate.I'll second that.
5. Comment #54475 by bluebird on July 7, 2007 at 11:33 am
6. Comment #54476 by Mango on July 7, 2007 at 11:37 am
"militant atheist"
"All this denouncing leaves unspoken the vast amount of good done from religious motives."
"Science is far from complete - there is so much we still don't know - but their assurance is that one day we will."
"So atheism is a belief in pointlessness."
"Why has no one joined in the battle against these warriors for atheism?"
7. Comment #54477 by willbonds on July 7, 2007 at 11:48 am
It's regrettable that the author doesn't have the cojones to identify herself. She's pitiable for asking religous leaders to take up the banner, which says to me that she has no regard for the ability of the common religious individual to 'stand up for God.' I wonder if she has read the books she mentions, or is just passing along clips. On the issue of debate, if we're going to have it then by all means let's make it honest, but on paper rather than in a public forum. Get all the points and argument in one place for all to see, so the debate can't be manipulated on the spot by some impolite loud mouth. That's why I can't watch Fox News.8. Comment #54478 by Logicel on July 7, 2007 at 11:50 am
9. Comment #54479 by Dr Benway on July 7, 2007 at 11:51 am
10. Comment #54480 by Corylus on July 7, 2007 at 11:56 am
In a little book called The Dawkins Delusion he takes apart the arguments of his fellow Oxford professor and chides him for his unscholarly ignorance of theology. But though excellently argued, this is hardly likely to become a bestseller.
11. Comment #54481 by gordon on July 7, 2007 at 12:03 pm
12. Comment #54482 by Logicel on July 7, 2007 at 12:10 pm
13. Comment #54484 by Newton30 on July 7, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Just for good measure he adds: 'A misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal megalomaniac and capriciously malevolent bully.' Does he think anyone believes in a God like that today?
14. Comment #54486 by DV82XL on July 7, 2007 at 12:19 pm
No one is standing up for God because He is no longer attracting the best intellectuals to His cause anymore.15. Comment #54487 by gordon on July 7, 2007 at 12:21 pm
16. Comment #54488 by Dr Benway on July 7, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Interesting how the author admits that God is just a construct, made up and tailored for whatever the current zeitgeist would deem 'good'.LOL.
Isn't it strange that God and He still attract capitals?Germans seem to capitalize everything. English speakers capitalize proper nouns. This holds even for fictional characters like God.
17. Comment #54489 by Fouad Boussetta on July 7, 2007 at 12:28 pm
18. Comment #54490 by NoLongerHaveBelief on July 7, 2007 at 12:29 pm
I've never met such wishful thinking in all my days!19. Comment #54491 by BAEOZ on July 7, 2007 at 12:35 pm
20. Comment #54492 by BAEOZ on July 7, 2007 at 12:36 pm
21. Comment #54493 by k1mgy on July 7, 2007 at 12:36 pm
22. Comment #54494 by gordon on July 7, 2007 at 12:50 pm
23. Comment #54496 by _J_ on July 7, 2007 at 1:09 pm
24. Comment #54499 by Dr Benway on July 7, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Dr. Benway, what happened to the mooning bird?Hi Taz. A bloke asked me to change my avatar. He worried it might give visitors to the respectable, intellectual, all-grown-up professor's "Oasis of Clear Thinking" the wrong impression.
25. Comment #54500 by Johnny O on July 7, 2007 at 1:52 pm
For me, God is mashed potatoes. What have atheists got against mashed potatoes, which I and a majority of the world's citizens find quite delicious? Mashed potatoes are not "the root of all evil." Mashed potatoes don't "poison everything." Silly atheists!
26. Comment #54502 by _J_ on July 7, 2007 at 2:00 pm
(Note the correct use of capitals)
27. Comment #54503 by Johnny O on July 7, 2007 at 2:14 pm
...but non-standard use of 'e'. Is 'Potatoe' the spelling of True Believers? ;)
28. Comment #54505 by _J_ on July 7, 2007 at 2:35 pm
And that is why The Holy Potato (no 'e') Lord created the edit button...
29. Comment #54508 by Johnny O on July 7, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Wow. Now, if the bible had one of those...
30. Comment #54510 by Creeping Jesus on July 7, 2007 at 3:14 pm
31. Comment #54515 by He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy on July 7, 2007 at 3:19 pm
"Thinking Christians would no more take every word of either testament literaly"32. Comment #54517 by steveroot on July 7, 2007 at 3:34 pm
26. Comment #54502 by _J_ on July 7, 2007 at 2:00 pm
(Note the correct use of capitals)
...but non-standard use of 'e'. Is 'Potatoe' the spelling of True Believers? ;)
33. Comment #54518 by pw201 on July 7, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Posted to the Mail's comments, we'll see whether it turns up:34. Comment #54519 by Veronique on July 7, 2007 at 3:49 pm
35. Comment #54520 by He-man Daunted World on July 7, 2007 at 3:52 pm
The real question is - Won't God stand up for God?36. Comment #54524 by _J_ on July 7, 2007 at 4:14 pm
37. Comment #54527 by Dr Benway on July 7, 2007 at 4:21 pm
38. Comment #54543 by konquererz on July 7, 2007 at 5:32 pm
39. Comment #54544 by Canuck#1 on July 7, 2007 at 5:39 pm
40. Comment #54547 by mmurray on July 7, 2007 at 5:52 pm
What modern theologians defend is a philosopher's God who nobody would bother to worship.
41. Comment #54554 by Satanburiedfossils on July 7, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Atheists have to face the conundrum: why do so many people believe in God when there is no God to believe in?The late Robert G. Ingersoll has a sensible, straightforward answer to this question: human beings invented God. But the field is not limited to just one supreme being. Indeed, as Ingersoll puts it: "Few nations have been so poor as to have but one god. Gods were made so easily, and the raw material cost so little, that generally the god market was fairly glutted, and heaven crammed with these phantoms."
42. Comment #54558 by Dr Benway on July 7, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Why... that would mean... Dan Quayle is the Messiah!The Bible speaks of "the sin against the Holy Spirit," but without giving any details. How unfortunate because Jesus is quoted as saying that this particular sin, unlike all the others, will never be forgiven. Ever.
43. Comment #54561 by Downunder on July 7, 2007 at 7:04 pm
44. Comment #54563 by Nefrubyr on July 7, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Dawkins calls non-thinking faith 'evil' but current cosmologists are required to believe that the universe must be full of Dark Matter which they can neither see nor measure. What an act of faith that requires!
45. Comment #54564 by ADParker on July 7, 2007 at 8:05 pm
46. Comment #54566 by Arcturus on July 7, 2007 at 8:21 pm
47. Comment #54567 by Alkal on July 7, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Poor lil God, does he need defenders now, poor pathetic creature.48. Comment #54569 by flistr8 on July 7, 2007 at 8:55 pm
49. Comment #54571 by troyreynolds86 on July 7, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Just a few points on the bible that I would like to make. First, if a modern Christian is to look at the Old Testament as being myth (that it almost entirely is, even those names that are verifiable turn out to have actions attributed that are largely overblown or complete fabrications) then upon what justification do they have for accepting biblical prophesy of Jesus? The prophets were followers of the being that Dawkins does describe and apparently got it all wrong but somehow got the prophesies right. I will admit that perhaps a divine creator did this (just being its usual mysterious self) for purposes that we can't know, but one doesn't have to be particularly skeptical to scratch ones head over this.50. Comment #54575 by steveroot on July 7, 2007 at 9:52 pm
49. Comment #54571 by troyreynolds86 on July 7, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Just a few points on the bible that I would like to make. First, if a modern Christian is to look at the Old Testament as being myth (that it almost entirely is...
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1. Comment #54470 by tieInterceptor on July 7, 2007 at 11:07 am
Hitler, Stalin usual stuff, science does not know before the big bang 'god did it' then, goldilocks question but ignores the anthropic principle,
and points at Alister McGrath? as the best that his side has to offer at the moment... seriously??
'People are too educated and sophisticated for the old messages'
she answered her own article, religion does not work for educated and sophisticated people.
time to move on with the times, seriously
ps: just read the comments on the article.
'I can tell you for a fact that God is no delusion- that He is real to me and that He does exist. What other man would have ever died on the cross to save humanity from our sins so that we could be reconciled with God?
- Rosalee D, USA'
hurts my brain.
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