Friday, July 13, 2007 | Reason : Political | print version

Christians disrupt Hindu Prayer at Senate Invocation

by Guardian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30Hz7A

Reposted from:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2125680,00.html

Protesters disrupt historic reading of Senate prayer by Hindu

The sight of a Hindu clergyman saying the US senate's traditional morning prayer was too much for members of a Christian group, who yesterday tried to shout him down before being arrested.

As Rajan Zed, director of interfaith relations at a Hindu temple, offered the prayer, two women and a man began shouting "this is an abomination" from the gallery.

The trio continued to yell at the Hindu cleric as they were taken away in handcuffs by police, yelling, "no Lord but Jesus Christ!" and "there's only one true God!". The male protester told the Associated Press, "we are Christians and patriots".

For several days, some Christian religious groups had urged their members to object to the prayer because Mr Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god".
Mr Zed, the first Hindu to offer the Senate prayer, began: "We meditate on the transcendental glory of the deity supreme, who is inside the heart of the Earth, inside the life of the sky and inside the soul of the heaven. May He stimulate and illuminate our minds."

Mr Zed, who was born in India, was invited by the Democratic Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, a staunch opponent of the Iraq war. Speaking in the chamber shortly after the prayer, Mr Reid defended the choice and linked it to the war debate.

"I think it speaks well of our country that someone representing the faith of about a billion people comes here and can speak in communication with our heavenly father regarding peace," said Mr Reid, who is a Mormon.

Police identified the protesters as Ante and Katherine Pavkovic and their daughter Kristen, members of a Christian organisation called Operation Save America/Operation Rescue.

The group said in a statement: "The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the one true god, Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers."

Reverend Flip Benham, the leader of the group, said: "Not one senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood. They stood on the gospel of Jesus Christ! There were three in the audience with the courage to stand and proclaim, 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me'."

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1. Comment #56049 by Fedler on July 13, 2007 at 2:35 pm

"Not one senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood...."

**insert usual argument here**

Other Comments by Fedler

2. Comment #56054 by USA_Limey on July 13, 2007 at 2:47 pm

These fools need to read a history book or two.

Most of their revered founding fathers were Deists; and quite a few of them were openly hostile to christianity.

Still, as an atheist I must be consistent, I don't want a Hindu making appeals to his mythical non existent god in the senate anymore than i do christians to theirs.

As for Harry Reid, member of the worlds fastest growing cult, he can take this nonsense and shove it.

Other Comments by USA_Limey

3. Comment #56055 by ChinmayKukade on July 13, 2007 at 2:48 pm

Amusing, but the usual staple of Christian intolerance..
Hinduism is really an umbrella term for an endless variety of cultural/religious belief systems - including ATHEISM..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism

Other Comments by ChinmayKukade

4. Comment #56057 by ChrisMcL on July 13, 2007 at 2:52 pm

I'm only surprised that two religions clashed and no one was physically hurt in the process.

I am in fear of the very real possibility that the future of this country will see sectarian violence of the kind that happens regularly in other parts of the world.

Other Comments by ChrisMcL

5. Comment #56059 by ChinmayKukade on July 13, 2007 at 2:54 pm

What is it really about the American political/cultural scenario that makes it, so uniquely in the world, a place where the absurdities and inconsistencies of any and every "faith" are glorified?

Other Comments by ChinmayKukade

6. Comment #56060 by ChinmayKukade on July 13, 2007 at 2:55 pm

I meant uniquely in the *developed* world..

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7. Comment #56061 by Shining666 on July 13, 2007 at 2:58 pm

Have these people no manners or decency? I hope those raving madmen interrupting the proceedings got booted out roughly by the Sergeant.

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8. Comment #56066 by Jiten on July 13, 2007 at 3:08 pm

Has an atheist ever been invited? He could use up his time playing a 3min jazz record for example.

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9. Comment #56067 by room101 on July 13, 2007 at 3:12 pm

Yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwn.....booorrrring.

Hindu priest? How lame is that? Come on, US Senate, liven things up a bit. Why not celebrate with something more exciting, like say, inviting an Aztec priest to recreate an offering to their ass-kicking war god, Huitzilopochtli?

You see, the ancient Aztecs used to believe that there was an ongoing battle between day and night, and this god used the sun's rays on a daily basis to defeat the elements of night and darkness.

And he can only be fed by the blood of victims to sustain him throughout his battles. It is said that over 20,000 people were sacrificed at his temple's "grand opening" over a 4-day period, with there heads displayed on racks. The priest could sacrifice a different senator and mount their heads on the wall. That would be cool.

So, I agree with "Flip" that this was indeed an abomination. But we part ways in that you can't just worship 1 god - If we can't rid our government bodies of them then I believe all deities should be represented. Equal time for all myths, I say.

How about some love for Huitzilopochtli?

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10. Comment #56069 by ChrisMcL on July 13, 2007 at 3:20 pm

The fact that there is a prayer at all has always bothered me. Prayer is inappropriate to a legislative body. It's as if some would rather turn it into a church.

It's not fair that the religious often turn everything into a religious occasion. They can't even allow young children, who have not yet formed a religious belief, to go through a school day without being witness to (or preferably, participate in) religious ceremony.

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11. Comment #56082 by room101 on July 13, 2007 at 3:55 pm

I agree with ChrisMcl...I don't understand why the constitutionally-impaired struggle so hard.

What part of "religion is no business of the state" don't you get??!!??

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12. Comment #56084 by ChrisMcL on July 13, 2007 at 3:59 pm

Sounds fine. But be careful what you wish for. Do "ALL faiths" include atheism? Apparently not, according to the judiciary of the U.S.

Opening up religious observances in government forums to all faiths may serve to show thoughtful people to question the validity of individual religions. But I would rather see the elimination of religious observance.

I am apprehensive about the possible unintended consequences of requiring observance of all faiths. For all we know, it may somehow reinforce the hold that religion has on society.

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13. Comment #56091 by Rtambree on July 13, 2007 at 5:32 pm

Martians would be laughing their heads off watching this. Two nuclear-powers praying to their invisible friends in the highest office.

The Martians would be laying bets - how long will these stupid apes last?

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14. Comment #56094 by Robert Maynard on July 13, 2007 at 5:55 pm

The group said in a statement: "The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the one true god, Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers."

Removing "false" and "the one true god" would make this sentence an entirely accurate description, but I think for a different reason than they imply.
As Chris said, they shouldn't be praying there at all. I feel sorry for the dude though - talk about feeling isolated. Large sections of the Senate probably felt the same way as those noisy jerks.

Although it obviously wasn't orchestrated for this effect, this was a nice way of demonstrating the point that as soon as you try and incorporate religious observance into democratic government, all viewpoints are necessarily equal.
Either it's all okay, or none of it's okay.

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15. Comment #56143 by action bastard on July 14, 2007 at 2:41 am

Why do some Christians discriminate against other religion's imaginary friends? If they were raised in India they would be devout Hindu worshippers as well. Though, I agree with previous posts that the US congress has no business praying to begin with. "Operation Save America/Operation Rescue"? Wtf is the national emergency? Is India invading?

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16. Comment #56174 by k1mgy on July 14, 2007 at 8:38 am

Frankly I'd rather each session of the House and Senate begin with a re-recitation of their Oath to the US Constitution, not this religious nonsense. Clearly, each and every one of these bush-enablers need reminding.

---
Reverend Flip Benham, the leader of the group, said: "Not one senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood. They stood on the gospel of Jesus Christ! There were three in the audience with the courage to stand and proclaim, 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me'."
---

Hey, chickenhawk. What happened to your backbone?

Where was "Flip" when the current US mal-adminstration took an axe to the US Constitution? One might think certain pieces of it would be important to Flip's continued cashflow. Where was "Flip" when the congressional enablers sat idly by while Habeus Corpus rights were put into a right wing meat grinder? Good to know his followers are white and right, otherwise they'd be screwed. Where was "Flip" when the mal-administration and congress lied, cheated, and stealed its way into an immoral and unnecessary war? Maybe it might prevent Flip from having to tote a gun. Under 40 years old, Flip? Drop the religious excuse. Sign up.

Finally, where was "Flip" when his flock was led away in irons? Seems to me "Flip" ought to stand right out there for his "belief", put his ass on the line, or zip that opening to his empty head.

Maybe his excuse would be, "Someone had to remain behind to be a media warrior"

Asshat.

These ignorant wackos are probably of the same group who were all cheers when the current bush mal-administration gave India carte-blanche as to nukes.

In the world of all the Haggardists, fortunately these certifiables are in the extreme minority. The remaining larger Haggardistic community sits by, not uttering a word of protest against them.

So someone tell me they are any less dangerous.

Other Comments by k1mgy

17. Comment #56209 by Clappers on July 14, 2007 at 1:36 pm

How about this as an atheist prayer

Let us take responsibility for our own actions, inactions, strengths
and frailties and not project them onto ghosts, spirits, stars,
portents and gods unseen.
Let us have the courage to accept that one person's faith is another
person's bloody-minded pig-headed refusal to accept the obvious.
Let us have the courage to accept that the person at the front of all
crowds, including this one, doesn't know all the answers.
Let us have the wisdom to accept that if our ancestors had fared
differently in wars our communities would be holding different
absurdities up as sacred truths, and the willingness to accept those
absurdities would be seen as the badge of social trustworthiness or
even the right to be allowed to draw breath.
Let us accept that the difference between a prophet and a madman is
not what they say but whether the crowd accepts the story and tells
their children to believe it.
Let us have the courage to accept that wanting to believe in something
with every fibre of our being does not and cannot make it true.
Truth needs no help, no believers, no bowed heads and no amens.

Other Comments by Clappers

18. Comment #56383 by FrankWilliams on July 15, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Clappers, that is an excellent sentiment.

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19. Comment #56384 by Salvatore on July 15, 2007 at 2:22 pm

Can Clappers get a witness?

...

Oh, I guess Frank Williams is the witness... well, amen, brother.

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20. Comment #56459 by troyreynolds86 on July 15, 2007 at 10:05 pm

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Thomas Jefferson

I guess we know were Jefferson would stand on the issue, and for my money Jefferson is the mother of all Founding Fathers. It is about time that certain members of our populous learned about history before trying to dictate the actions and positions of historical men.

Other Comments by troyreynolds86

21. Comment #56470 by Logos on July 16, 2007 at 12:05 am

"we are Christians and patriots"

Patriots? These people have no regards for human rights and the freedom of religion guaranteed by the constitution.

Either you allow all religions to have public prayers, or you allow none.

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22. Comment #56572 by Ricky Ramirez on July 16, 2007 at 12:57 pm

room101 said:

"The priest could sacrifice a different senator and mount their heads on the wall"

lmao!

room101 is absolutely right. In order to remain honest, all deities need equal time. So let's not forget about occasionally collecting the tears of the senators before ritually drowning them to appease Tlaloc. Or how about all the senators bring along their wives for a little Bacchanalia in honor of Dionysus? CSPAN would be much more interesting! ;)

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23. Comment #56777 by gr8hands on July 17, 2007 at 7:22 am

The sooner these unconstitutional and illegal prayers are abolished, the better.

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24. Comment #56804 by 82abhilash on July 17, 2007 at 10:11 am

ChinmayKukade wrote:
Hinduism is really an umbrella term for an endless variety of cultural/religious belief systems - including ATHEISM..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism

I wonder how many of you are knowing this for the first time..

But I agree with k1mgy on this one. The should start the Senate and Congress sessions with by reading from the oath to the constitution, the declaration of independence or some other document that is all American.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

25. Comment #56840 by John Turner on July 17, 2007 at 12:56 pm

'The should start the Senate and Congress sessions with by reading from the oath to the constitution, the declaration of independence or some other document that is all American.'

How about just cut all the ritual, oath, recitement crap and get to work?

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26. Comment #57614 by Alkal on July 20, 2007 at 8:07 am

The funny thing is that the Prayer was directed to A SUPREME BEING. Nowhere was any deistic plurality mentioned.... Since it was a prayer, couldn't our patriots have chosen to interpret it is as directed to their invisible buddy in the Sky not the Hindus?

But of course, it aint a prayer unless it is "Hallowed be thy name"( and hollowed my mind for using my senses as an echo chamber for what the Good Book says)

I did not understand why there was any need to court arrest. After all they could have made the sign of the cross( or oops that is Catholic.?? ) and it would be a Christian prayer....

But then again I am trying to understand and reflect which is anathema to religious nuts....

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27. Comment #59608 by ignite on July 29, 2007 at 11:05 pm

Wasn't the reason that America increased in size was that people wanted a new life from the oppresion of Europe (religious and political)?

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28. Comment #60018 by AUM on July 31, 2007 at 1:33 pm

"For several days, some Christian religious groups had urged their members to object to the prayer because Mr Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."

Hinduism believes in one God. Their anger is founded on false views.

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29. Comment #60021 by heathen2 on July 31, 2007 at 1:43 pm

Hinduism believes in one God. Their anger is founded on false views.

Whether the interpretation of Hinduism is belief in one god or three gods or a thousand is irrelavant. These people are bigots and practising their intolerance. They can and will become angered by any trivial point of difference they can find.

I agree with some of the other posts, keep all religion and religious rituals out of our government. It is wholly inappropriate and an embarrassment in our modern age.

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30. Comment #60023 by AUM on July 31, 2007 at 1:48 pm

Whether the interpretation of Hinduism is belief in one god or three gods or a thousand is irrelavant. These people are bigots and practising their intolerance. They can and will become angered by any trivial point of difference they can find.

I agree with some of the other posts, keep all religion and religious rituals out of our government. It is wholly inappropriate and an embarrassment in our modern age.

I am not arguing that they aren't intolerant, it is quite clear that they are indeed intolerant.

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