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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 | Reason : Children and Religion | print version Print | Comments

Document Camp Joins Summer Fun With Teaching Hindu Faith

by Neela Banerjee

Reposted from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/21/us/21hindu.html

ANNANDALE, Va. — The first hour at the Chinmaya Mission day camp unfolds as at any other camp. Children shriek through tag, while a few others play Uno.

But by 9 a.m., the grammar-school-age campers are sitting down, their attention focused on a long-haired Indian man in the front of the room, Swami Dheerananda, the mission's Hindu teacher, or acharya. Together, they chant prayers in Sanskrit. Many recite passages they have memorized from the Bhagavad Gita, a holy Hindu text.

Like American Jews before them, Hindu parents, most of whom are recent immigrants to the United States, are turning to well-established institutions like summer camp and weekend school, and to decidedly more contemporary Internet sites, to teach their American-born children ancient religious traditions and help maintain their Indian identity.

"I would venture to say that it is children's programming and education that has become a primary, if not the primary, focus of Hindu-American leaders and institutions," Shana Sippy, a candidate for a doctoral degree in religion from Columbia University, wrote in a recent paper. "In California alone, over 10,000 children attend some sort of Hindu or Indian instruction on the weekend."

But explaining Hinduism to Americans is another challenge, one that is leading to a homogenization of a faith that, in India, is characterized by the variety of local beliefs and worship practices, some scholars and Hindus say.

"It has to be homogenized at some level because if I ask my daughter, she doesn't know the difference between the practice of Hinduism among South Indians and Bengalis," said Sanjiev Chattopadhya, whose 8-year-old daughter, Maya Chatterjee, attends the Chinmaya camp here. "There has to be dilution at some level, because there hasn't been a critical mass of us, though that may be starting to change."

From 1.2 million to 2 million Hindus live in the United States, according to estimates cited by Harvard's Pluralism Project on religious diversity, a tiny fraction of the approximately one billion Hindus worldwide. Hindus may be better understood now than a generation ago, partly because yoga has generated interest in Hinduism, said Suhag Shukla, legal counsel for the Hindu American Foundation, an advocacy group, but conflicts still occur.

On July 12, three Christian protesters shouting, "This is an abomination!" disrupted prayers offered by a Hindu priest at the start of a Senate session. Earlier, Christian conservatives had argued against a having the Hindu chaplain lead prayers in the Senate chamber because, as David Barton of the evangelical group Wallbuilders, explained, Hinduism "is not a religion that has produced great things in the world."

Though the children at the Chinmaya camp have their summer booked with all sorts of other camps and activities, here they do not stick out. Elsewhere, "people always ask, 'What language do you speak? What food do you eat? ' " Maya Chatterjee said. "Sometimes they see the food in my lunch box and think it's gross."

About 65 children attend the monthlong camp in Virginia, one of two in the Washington area run by the Chinmaya Mission, part of a worldwide Hindu movement. Hundreds more attend Sunday school classes during the school year. The children here spend the morning learning Sanskrit prayers and broad lessons from the Bhagavad Gita about "caring and sharing," the main theme of this year's camp term. Afternoons are devoted mostly to traditional songs and dances that mix Bollywood with religious tales.

Hindus in the United States have long bolstered their children's cultural identity by having them take Indian dance and music classes. But over the last two decades, many Hindus' anxiety about preserving their culture has translated into a drive to teach religion more explicitly, said Vijay Prashad, professor of South Asian history at Trinity College.

One morning recently, Veronica Hausman stood in front of 20 restless 8- and 9-year-olds, trying to get them to settle down. When that failed, she sat, closed her eyes and chanted a long "Om." The chatter stopped immediately. Ms. Hausman asked the group why a person cares for others. Several youngsters said that it had to do with what the person might get in return. But Ms. Hausman explained that caring for others was embedded in the simplest acts of their faith.

"How do Hindus greet each other?" she asked, bringing her hands together before her chest in a namaste, which some Hindus believe has a religious meaning. "Look at my hands at the heart. What does it mean? It means the Lord in me bows to the Lord in you. If everyone saw the God in everyone else, wouldn't we care? I see all of you are zoning out now, so just remember this."

The children seemed engaged by the camp. Arthi Bala, 8, said she enjoyed doing "yagnas and stuff," a reference to some worship rituals.

Hinduism has no founder, no single sacred text like the Bible, and no recitation of creeds that define a believer. The immigrant parents whose children attend camp became Hindu "through osmosis," said Vasudha Narayanan, director of the Center for the Study of Hindu Traditions at the University of Florida.

In India, Hindus hear the epic Ramayana as a bedtime story, repeat the religious ceremonies of their households and celebrate festivals with the entire community. But in the United States, Hindus often must explain their faith to other people, including their children, which many are not prepared to do.

"Parents knew the rituals but not the significance behind them," Swami Dheerananda said.

Yet some scholars contend that making the religion more accessible has eroded some of its diversity. In the United States, the sacred utterance "Om," has become the symbol for Hinduism, Ms. Narayanan said. But in India, other symbols are widely used, like the letter "Sri," which signifies Lakshmi, the goddess of prosperity. Many Hindu groups here espouse a philosophy from the seventh century that "the Supreme Being and you are identical," she said. But in areas of South India, people think of the divine as a mother and the individual as the child she protects.

"This is an essentializing of Hinduism," Ms. Narayanan said, "and the diversity of Hinduism in India is lost here."

Such homogenization may be inevitable, Ms. Sippy said.

"All traditions undergo transformation as a normal process of immigration," she said, "and American religious leaders of all backgrounds have commonly simplified their traditions to transmit religious identity to children."

Some campers finished reciting Chapter 4, Verse 33 of the Bhagavad Gita in Sanskrit and clamored for a translation. Swami Dheerananda shrugged off their request, explaining later that they were too young.

That did not sit well with about half the class, including Maya Chatterjee. "I'd feel better if someone explained it," she said.

Roshni Yaradi, 7, said her parents sometimes explained. If they had that day, they would have told her that in that verse, Lord Krishna says to his disciple Arjuna, "The sacrifice of knowledge is greater than the sacrifice of material possessions."

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1. Comment #58547 by _J_ on July 25, 2007 at 6:59 am

 avatar
Earlier, Christian conservatives had argued against a having the Hindu chaplain lead prayers in the Senate chamber because, as David Barton of the evangelical group Wallbuilders, explained, Hinduism "is not a religion that has produced great things in the world."

Strange how little sympathy the 'Science gets results' argument garners with Christians, isn't it?

Mind, it doesn't take a biblical expert to spot that 'consistency' is not foremost among Christianity's virtues.

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2. Comment #58548 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 7:00 am

I rememeber sitting for a seminar by some swami when I was young. He told us that the 'Om' had secret capacities to heal and so on. He also said, 'Om is the only syllable which required the use of your lungs,tongue and teeth together.

GARBAGE!!

Other Comments by the_assayer

3. Comment #58550 by Quetzalcoatl on July 25, 2007 at 7:05 am

 avatarI've always liked Hinduism, with its elephant-headed, many-armed Gods. Although it has its bad elements, it's a fairly harmless faith, by and large.

I would venture to say that it is children's programming


A bit of unintended irony there, I think.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

4. Comment #58551 by Spinoza on July 25, 2007 at 7:08 am

 avatarHinduism, of all "religions", has the most interesting metaphysics, by far...

Indeed, if it weren't for British colonialism, there would be no such thing as "Hinduism", but rather several thousand tribal religions all based out of similar sets of beliefs about the universe.

While they are "wrong" in many ways, they are at least INTERESTING... Schopenhauer once said that Spinoza would be at home on the banks of the Ganges. (his metaphysics of One Substance and Hinduism's concept of Brahman are extremely similar...)

I agree with Ms. Narayanan... one of the coolest things about Hinduism was that diversity...

No one wants to see it become a knockoff of Christianity. (in order to compete)

Other Comments by Spinoza

5. Comment #58552 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 7:11 am

I was reading an article by Meera Nanda. In it, she talks of the postmodernist movement in India that is trying to blur the distiction between Hindutva and science. They claim the vedas to be scientific citing the guna theory as one of its acheivemnts. In actuality the guna theory is a joke. It states that the stuff of the world is divided into three types - positive gunna(symbolizing good things,vigour,excitement), negative guna(sybolising in-action, bad things) and neutral guna(things that don't fall under either catagory). And the claim? Yes you guessed it! The atomic theory. Apparently the saints had thought about the Bohr atom model thousands of years back. Too bad for you white folks.... it appears we brownies were lightyears ahead of you guys. :P .... I even heard that a Hindutva org in California is suing to Nodel prize committee for not giving credit for our Indian-vedic science.
Hmmmmmm... Where's my prize now??

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6. Comment #58557 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 7:25 am

well... the stories in Hinduism are too fantastic. There is not much scope for literalism.
Krishna one of the most important avatars of Maha Vishnu had a 1000 wives. :D .. And in another epic, the Mahabarata, the pandavas *five in number) agree to marry one woman(panchali) as their common wife. Very progressive people i would say.

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7. Comment #58562 by irate_atheist on July 25, 2007 at 7:34 am

 avatar"...help maintain their Indian identity."

Utter tripe - Indians can be Muslims, Hindhus, Christians, atheists, whatever.


"American religious leaders of all backgrounds have commonly simplified their traditions to transmit religious identity to children."

And then people ask why an increasing number of us regard childhood religious indoctrination as abuse.

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8. Comment #58563 by Quetzalcoatl on July 25, 2007 at 7:40 am

 avatarSimplistic concepts translate better. It was only when I got older that I learned about Holy Communion, the whole omniscience thing, and other faiths, and thought "Eh?"

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9. Comment #58580 by Pieter on July 25, 2007 at 8:51 am

I agree, but one of the worst things about hinduism is, and always has been, the caste system. if there's a better example of how a religion is used as a method of social coercion i'd like to hear it.

Other Comments by Pieter

10. Comment #58584 by heathen2 on July 25, 2007 at 9:10 am

 avatar"Some campers finished reciting Chapter 4, Verse 33 of the Bhagavad Gita in Sanskrit and clamored for a translation. Swami Dheerananda shrugged off their request, explaining later that they were too young."

I had a similar experience when I got married. The Hindu priest told us to repeat the vows in Sanskrit then he would translate - after we had already made the vow. Not a big deal at the time, and we still joke about all the things we may have vowed to do, but the attitude from the teachers and priests is typically arrogant.

Being culturally Hindu during my younger years, I never had religion forced upon me. It was there, part of my family's culture, with lots of colorful mythology and stories my grandma told me. I was left to explore religion and philosophy for myself.

I always felt that atheism and Hinduism were very compatible and made sense because it seemed that many in my family were atheists. They never voiced it, just respected the traditional stuff and the wishes of others in the family to worship. I gave up identifying myself as Hindu years ago, but was glad to learn that there were a number of ancient atheistic schools of thought that made up the amalgam of Hinduism. Somehow it made me feel better. I still would not go back to calling myself Hindu because of all the ignorance, injustice and idiocy that is promoted in its name.

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11. Comment #58586 by 82abhilash on July 25, 2007 at 9:11 am

Hindus in US are a dispersed lot with varying beliefs and traditions and even languages (India has 18 official languages), but cut off from their homeland, they may homogenize into a single unit and this article seems to indicate.

It they do, that would mean they would have critical mass as a group that they otherwise would not. And there is no reason to believe that if they do reach critical mass, that they wouldn't demand their version of facts and beliefs taught in public schools, be it in science or history.

So nip this in the bud at the grass root. If you know any Hindus, appeal only to their sense of reason and rationality. Do not give them (or people of any other faith for that matter) an opportunity to express themselves religiously in the public domain.

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12. Comment #58588 by wendelin on July 25, 2007 at 9:23 am

I'd actually argue that the caste system is not part of hinduism-the-religion but of hinduism-the-culture, but most Hindus would not see the two as separate. So yes, I agree: social coersion (long ago - to stick to one's family trade, to commit suicide in your husband's funeral pyre; today - to marry the person of your family's choice) is Hinduism's worst aspect.

Another level at which Hinduism grates is its philosophy and metaphysics, mostly because it's impossible to pin Hindus down to any one statement. To an atheist in love with groundedness and solid principles, this is murky mysticism at its most irritating. But this, perhaps, can be remedied by actually taking the time to study Hinduism deeply - though honestly, if growing up with the religion didn't give me any idea what it was about, I don't know how others will fare!

However, you'll never find a Hindu opposed to science and scientific knowledge, probably because of the utter reverence for learning this religion inculcaltes. You'll find social conservatives who oppose abortions, women's rights, and "social evils" like drugs and alcohol, but you won't find anybody religiously opposed to, say, stem cell research (or even eugenics).

And you'll never find hindus speaking out against theories of astronomy or physics or concepts like evolution, either, mostly because this is one religion that gets the time scales of the universe right. Hindus are used to the idea of millions and billions of years.

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13. Comment #58592 by Steven Mading on July 25, 2007 at 9:56 am

In general I find it rather annoying when people attribute something embarassing in a religion to the "culture" and not the "religion", because they aren't that easy to separate. Religions evolve from the culture, and culture evolves from the relgion. They become intertwined so deeply that they really aren't two different things anymore. The religion is a mechanism for preserving the culture in people's minds, by making people think traditional beliefs and traditional viewpoints are ethically superior to new ones.

Religion and culture are not two different things.

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14. Comment #58597 by Bonzai on July 25, 2007 at 10:22 am

And you'll never find hindus speaking out against theories of astronomy or physics or concepts like evolution, either, mostly because this is one religion that gets the time scales of the universe right. Hindus are used to the idea of millions and billions of years


No they aren't neccessarily against scientific theories but Hindu fundamentalists take credits for them. I read on some Hindu site the claim that the Hindu scriptures talked about Quantum mechanics thousands of years ago. This may sound like a harmless eccentricity but it can be a way to retard science if taken too seriously.

You only have to look at the resources and money poured into researching "Quranic science" in the Muslim world.

"Quranic science" claims that one can tease out all modern scientific achievements from big bang to evolution,--not all Islamic fundamentalists oppose evolution btw,--to embryology to plate tectonic from Quranic verses. "Scientists" in prestigious universities in the Islamic world publish papers with titles like "the speed of light to heaven". While not denying scientific theory outright, this false endorsement of science just as harmful in promoting supersititution. It bastardizes and distorts science just as badly as "scientific Creationism".Unlike Creationism "Quranic science" has infiltrated serious research institutions in the Muslim world and it is not even as sophisticate as a hoax.

P.S. Contrary to common misunderstanding Hinduism is a actually a monotheistic religion. All the different Hindu Gods are manifestations of one God,--Vishnu. It is like electricty and magnetism are different sides to the same underlying phsyical phenomenon.

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15. Comment #58598 by ericcolumba on July 25, 2007 at 10:33 am

 avatarGood grief!

I for one will not be joining in the praise for Hinduism. What do I take from this article? That 10,000 children are being indoctrinated with other peoples irrational beliefs. It does dismay me at times to read posts which seem to conveniently forget that teaching lies to children is wrong. Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy etc being exceptions as the parents will eventually turn round and tell their children that they never existed. The same cannot be said of this or any other religion. Therefore, however benign, harmless or cool you think it is, why afford respect to this tissue of lies ?

I don't know, I'm only guessing but it seems to me that some of you can't deal with the fact that one day you die and that's it. You have rejected the religion (probably Christian) of your parents but are still on the look out for something to take it's place.

Life's too short for praying and chanting.

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16. Comment #58603 by Bonzai on July 25, 2007 at 10:47 am

Hinduism has better PR only because it is a national religion and the harm and stupidity and opression of Hinduism is confined within India's border unlike prostylizing religions like Islam and Christianity which seek to convert the world. In that sense Hinduism is much less dangerous, but it is no less bad if you live under it. The downside is that it is even more closely tied to nationalism,--another irrational belief which arguably do as much harm if not more than religion.

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17. Comment #58604 by Duff on July 25, 2007 at 10:55 am

A fairy tale is a fairy tale is a fairy tale. If it's meta-physical, it's a fairy tale. It doesn't matter what its name is. Get over it.

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18. Comment #58605 by Bonzai on July 25, 2007 at 11:03 am

Not all fairy tales are harmful, I am not saying Hinduism is a harmless fairy tale, it is clear from my posts above. But it is just plain silly to say fairy tales are somehow immoral or bad just because they are fairy tales and they are all equally bad because they are equally false as if only the truth value (truth and falsehood) of religion matters. This is the kind of dogmatic atheism that I spoke against on other threads, it is shallow and unnuanced.

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19. Comment #58607 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 11:24 am

Your wrong there Bonzai.... Vishnu is only part of the trinity of Gods.
Brahma- Creator of the universe
Vishnu- Protector of the universe
Shiva- Destroyer " "

What you should have said is that heroes and Gods of many of the epics are actually avatars of Vishnu.
But all this doesn't make a difference. Its pretty polytheistic in practice.

And wendelin, your notion of Hinduism is naive, especially the claim that Hindu's don't try to impose religion onto science. Do you know that astrology is a science subject here in India? People can now get a BSc in Astrology. There are research organisations like the Bhanktivedanta institute funded by ISKON that are trying to develop what they call Indegeneous science. Ofcourse this would have been a good thing provided they were actually trying to make a science using traditional ideas. But thats hardly the case. Try this on for size-


"""When one decides to extend physics to include thermodynamics, cosmology and direct personal experience we find new perceptions of lawfulness. For example, when we include thermodynamics the second law of thermodynamics which states that "entropy (disorder) tends to grow in time." We have a directed time. The corruption of order from lost co-relation to the "external" world can be used to account for the second law. But deterministic chaos seems to be an intrinsic effect, independent of the surrounding which bring about the same type of phenomena. Also if we consider the universe as a single physical system there is no physical agency outside it to provide scales of space and time, much less to provide external entropy increasing influences.

When our personal experience in the universe is considered, we certainly plan our activities according to this chain of causality and of entropy increase. So it is very tempting to assert that we too are "merely physical". Yet we are aware of two branching trees; the phenomenal one in which causes cause effects in the future. But we also have the conviction now and then, most often when we look back on the past that there seems to be a goal directed sequence of sets of events, where teleology applies: cause is in the result and the future branches are in the past. It is very reminiscent of the curios Aswatha tree with branches below and roots above mentioned in the Bhagawad Gita (Urdhvamulam athasakham aswattham prahuravyam Gita X). Can the same world exhibit such different connectivities in different perspectives?""""



-------------------------------------------------
can anyone tell me what this might mean?

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20. Comment #58608 by heathen2 on July 25, 2007 at 11:25 am

 avatarI agree with bonzai, duff, and others. Hinduism is no better than all the other religious nonsense. I was raised in with Hindu culture transplanted to the USA, but was fortunately free from religious indoctrination.

Although I understand how the caste system came about as a religious (control mechanism) and social system, it makes me sick to my stomach. A couple of years ago, a lady that I struck up a conversation with (here in the States), started asking whether I knew others of my caste in the area! She knew my caste from my last name. So rude but the only time I have ever run into such crass behavior.

I wish the camp could teach maybe other aspects of Indian heritage such as mythology (tell the fairy tales as just fairy tales, they are so interesting), history, crafts, traditional songs, dance, etc. Leave out the useless chanting, verses from religious and other useless stuff.

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21. Comment #58609 by heathen2 on July 25, 2007 at 11:28 am

 avatar"People can now get a BSc in Astrology"

Are you serious?!

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22. Comment #58611 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 11:30 am

Well a BSc or Diploma... Me not sure. But its a degree subject in some universities thanks to the BJP govt.

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23. Comment #58612 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 11:32 am

The prevalance of charlatans God-men(women) is another vice.

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24. Comment #58614 by Spinoza on July 25, 2007 at 11:36 am

 avatar
P.S. Contrary to common misunderstanding Hinduism is a actually a monotheistic religion. All the different Hindu Gods are manifestations of one God,--Vishnu. It is like electricty and magnetism are different sides to the same underlying phsyical phenomenon.


As has been mentioned already, this is wrong.

But the corrections weren't right either.

Hinduism is a monistic religion that believes in a plurality of essences which manifest as devas or gods...

"Brahman" is the ultimate "God", or "Oneness"... it's equivalent in meaning to "Allah" or "Elohim" or other such things...

But the metaphysics developed around it is much closer to Spinoza's... which is far closer to modern QM than say, Leibniz's Monads.

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25. Comment #58616 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 11:44 am

Ah yes... Spinoza. Not to mention that he got one of his five heads chopped of for sleeping during the creation process.wait!!.... hmmm... me not too sure about this story either. I'll ask my mom and clarify it for those who are interested.

Other Comments by the_assayer

26. Comment #58619 by Corylus on July 25, 2007 at 11:56 am

 avatarInteresting, no-one seems to be questioning the actual notion of 'summer camp' in its entirety.

Is this 'summer camp' business a good / bad thing in general?

The whole thing seems to me to be a whole exercise in risk. E.g. You might get indoctrinated into all type of cults, you might be a martyr to poison ivy, hell, you might even find yourself in a "Deliverance" type of situation. Strikes me this is not good.

So why send your children on these anyway??? (Irrespective of the ethos of the teachers). I'm puzzled.

N.B. I am willing to be entertained by tales of intellectual growth, spiritual enlightenment and jolly adventures by any who any who have actually attended these bucolic gulags, but at the moment I am unconvinced.

BTW - please do not try any "do not knock it until you have tried it comments". I have tried camping. It was vile. Hideously uncomfortable, freezing cold and the pub was £$^&ing miles away. Talk about going on holiday by mistake...

Other Comments by Corylus

27. Comment #58621 by heathen2 on July 25, 2007 at 12:04 pm

 avatarParents like to get rid of their kids for awhile, thus the notion of summer camp. Doesn't matter what the kids want.

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28. Comment #58622 by Spinoza on July 25, 2007 at 12:06 pm

 avatarLol. Corylus, "summer camp" does not necessarily have anything to do with "camping".

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29. Comment #58623 by steveroot on July 25, 2007 at 12:16 pm

 avatar
19. Comment #58622 by Spinoza on July 25, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Lol. Corylus, "summer camp" does not necessarily have anything to do with "camping".

...especially if it's _bible_ camp!
Steve

Other Comments by steveroot

30. Comment #58627 by Fire1974 on July 25, 2007 at 12:29 pm

In my youth, I had the pleasure of going to:

Vacation_Bible_School

And yes, It was a complete and total contradiction in every way possible.

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31. Comment #58631 by Corylus on July 25, 2007 at 1:50 pm

 avatarOK. Thanks for the answers guys :) I think I have a handle on the whole business now. Cultural differences on the board appear to account for my confusion.

Seems that the American/Canadian version of "camping" is somewhat different from the British one.

The Amercian/Canadian version includes kids dispatched without consent, enforced indoctrination and oxymoronic titles. However, on the plus side it does include the possibility of hot running water and a warm bed.

The British version is about parts of your anatomy (that you didn't even know you possessed) turning blue, experiencing the kind of pervasive damp that seeps into your bones and sleeping on a bed consisting of a plastic sheet placed on top of some sharp rocks.

On the plus side, there is no indoctrination and also the vague chance (after a short detour to Mount Doom to drop off a ring) of finding a hostelry to drown your sorrows in.

I really don't know what's worse!

Answers on a postcard...

Other Comments by Corylus

32. Comment #58650 by geckoman on July 25, 2007 at 3:40 pm

I'm a Brit visiting Illinois at the moment and must thank you guys for clearing up this summer camp/summer school business, as I was wondering about it.

Every second church (and that's a lot in the midwest, believe me) is currently advertising summer bible school or summer bible camp. The newspapers and free community rags also carry commercials for them.

Poor kids I thought. I recall my own 7 week summer holidays as a kid- weeks of fun uninterrupted by that kind of crap. Imagine being cooped up in a stuffy church and listening to some old geyser droning on about sin and punishment.

I think Corylus is right-in the UK summer camp means cowering under damp canvas, eating undercooked campfire food and possibly getting a well developed girl to flash for you. I imagine, ahem. The religious element only manifests itself in prayers that camp will be cancelled prematurely and you'll be back in front of the tv soon.

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33. Comment #58658 by Bonzai on July 25, 2007 at 4:35 pm

People can now get a BSc in Astrology


Are you sure you didn't mean a B.S.?

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34. Comment #58661 by Bonzai on July 25, 2007 at 4:41 pm

Spinoza wrote:

But the metaphysics developed around it is much closer to Spinoza's... which is far closer to modern QM than say, Leibniz's Monads.


The Chinese have by far the best creation story. The god Pengu bursted out of a premordial cosmic egg, stretched open heaven and earth and then died of exhaustion.

It "solves" the creation problem without the religious side effect because the creator was killed off after he served the purpose as the first cause.

Far more convincing than any Hindu, Christian and muslim claim, the Chinese story anticipated QM (God was born out of a quantum fluctuation) big bang cosmology, the expanding universe and the second law of thermodynamics(God injected order by doing work in expanding the universe and died of an overdose of entropy as a result)

Boy we are a smart people





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35. Comment #58844 by fallenone on July 26, 2007 at 11:42 am

 avatarI'm sorry, but despite the philosophical component, Hinduism and Buddhism get too much credit... At the end of the day, they too are religions that are prone to errors and fallacies common in the Abrahamic religions. It is not difficult to find a positive aspect of a given religious system and ignore the other less 'enlightened' ideas...

Speaking of which, I've been following the story of Shambo, a bull diagnosed to be carrying bovine tuberculosis. The gov't, quite rightly, decided to slaughter the animal to curb spreading of the disease. The double-whammy? Shambo is the sacred bull of a local Hindu temple... However, the story unfolds not in India, but in present day English Whales...

Hmmm, only Gods (?) can forsee the outcome of this little story. The monks have a few good points to entice the followers to 'passively disobey' the gov't decree... Well, they don't... not really... Unless you take the religious dogma as a credible argument. I could go on, but this particular religious-zealot laden story would be funny were it not for the fact that it is sadly true...

Latest news state that Shambo will be put out of his misery today. Hopefully, that'll be it.

Here are some sources:
http://www.earthtimes.org/mobile/87108.xhtml
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?alias=standoff-over-shambo-the&chanId=sa003&modsrc=reuters

and more @ google news:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=ca&q=Shambo+bull&btnG=Search+News

Other Comments by fallenone

36. Comment #59066 by heathen2 on July 27, 2007 at 6:58 am

 avatarAs is the case with christianity, islam, etc., the moderates, agnostics and atheists within hinduism end up shielding the nutjobs within the cloak of religion and culture.

I say throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Other Comments by heathen2

37. Comment #59076 by the_assayer on July 27, 2007 at 7:45 am

In India its BSc. But I'm guessing that was joke.. :D

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38. Comment #103495 by Madhav on December 25, 2007 at 10:21 pm

Hi, I was a Hindu for the first 22 years of my life. During my late teens I became a fundamentalist (yes, there is such a thing as Hindu fundamentalist). Now, thanks to people like Richard Dawkins and Ayn Rand, I am an atheist. Finally, I would like to point out that Hinduism is as dangerous as Islam and can be as fundamentalist and evil as any other cult/religion. Be warned. The caste system is the least of Hinduism's problems. The founder of the above mission was a fundamentalist.

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