1. Comment #61797 by thelivingbrian on August 6, 2007 at 11:41 pm

scary... just scary

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2. Comment #61799 by Johan on August 7, 2007 at 12:31 am

Wow, and I thought an Embassy was a State organization representing the diplomatic interests of one country in another. I'm happy I got informed that there is a Christian country, its borders suspiciously resembling those of the USA, with its own embassy. Is there a Muslim embassy as well??

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3. Comment #61825 by dgcoulson on August 7, 2007 at 3:17 am

One area where the state and religion clearly clearly do not mix well is the military. I suppose it should not really come as a surprise to know that the US military is populated with these bible-thumping types, who are perhaps not uncommonly parochial, nationalistic or even xenophobic. The scale of the US military in itself is awesome but when you consider it is doubtlessly populated from the top down with these types, that is rather chilling.
On a positive note though, I was glad to read on the BBC website in the last day or so that many British MPs are taking The God Delusion with them as their summer reading. So can I propose that the next aim should be members of the US Congress, Senate and Pentagon? Has this already been mooted?

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4. Comment #61843 by samratpathania on August 7, 2007 at 5:45 am

So what's coming next ???
Weekly Bible studies at NASA !!!
These soldiers need to take some elementary
biology courses , not weekly Bible studies.

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5. Comment #61851 by drcowboybc on August 7, 2007 at 6:08 am

What the hell is "the aroma of Jesus Christ"?

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6. Comment #61862 by Yorker on August 7, 2007 at 7:06 am

There is too much to say about this.

Action is needed now.

These dangerous buffoons are turning the American constitution that politicians proudly swear to uphold, into a joke.

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7. Comment #61863 by Trunkmonkey on August 7, 2007 at 7:07 am

drcowboybc said:

"What the hell is "the aroma of Jesus Christ"?"

May I suggest sort of fishy and loafy?

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8. Comment #61864 by automath on August 7, 2007 at 7:08 am

Please tell me that you don't need to be an atheist to recognize the dangers this group pose to democracy.

It's like watching some body snatcher movie trailer.

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9. Comment #61870 by BigJohn on August 7, 2007 at 8:13 am

Religion is an incurable cancer in the U.S. It has metastasized to all areas of the government and military. It is going to kill us. I suspect that death will come in 2008 when George W. Bush will not relinquish the Presidency by claiming that he was appointed by God. Who can stop him? No one. He has the backing of the Military. The majority of Congress is Christian and they will side with him, at the least to satisfy their constituency. The Supreme Court is powerless without enforcement, and besides, the majority there is Christian as well.

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10. Comment #61873 by heathen2 on August 7, 2007 at 8:18 am

It's funny when the nutjobs talk about spreading the word to the foreign embassies and ambassadors (the REAL ones) through the pretext of social gatherings. Unless the embassy people are already christian, they won't get anywhere as people of other faiths from other countries are already sick and tired of generations of christian "ministry". They are used to christians invading their own countries trying to convert them.

Christian "embassy" is so wrong on so many levels. The incidents that Lou Dobbs mentioned have been since Bush came into office. He seems to have brought a christian culture and flavor (fishy and loafy?) to the WH. Hopefully when Bush leaves office, this movement will be gone too.

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11. Comment #61877 by Old_Pollution on August 7, 2007 at 8:32 am

Yorker says: 'These dangerous buffoons are turning the American constitution that politicians proudly swear to uphold, into a joke.'

I think a more accurate statement would be: 'These dangerous buffoons HAVE TURNED the American constitution that politicians proudly swear to uphold, into a joke.'

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12. Comment #61879 by USA_Limey on August 7, 2007 at 9:02 am

Comment #61870 by BigJohn wrote:

"I suspect that death will come in 2008 when George W. Bush will not relinquish the Presidency by claiming that he was appointed by God"

... Big John, I don't know how serious you were this comment but I will say I don't entirely disagree with it. When asked in conversation who I think will be the next president I sometimes mischievously respond George Bush. But it could happen. There are historical precedents for a third term president; Roosevelt ran for a third tem because he was in the middle of World War Two. Now imagine a scenario where there is a major terrorist attack on the USA just before the presidential election. Is it possible Bush might invoke national security and run for a third term giving similar reasons to those Roosevelt gave? This isn't as nuts as it sounds.

At any rate I intend putting a small bet with good odds on that very eventuality


__________________________________________________
Carousel is a lie! There is no renewal!

~ Logan

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13. Comment #61883 by CruciFiction on August 7, 2007 at 9:31 am

More on this breaking story:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/6/194930/0382

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14. Comment #61884 by J.C. Samuelson on August 7, 2007 at 9:35 am

@ BigJohn,

Like USA_Limey, I don't know how serious you were, but I disagree with your assessment of Bush's power. People - even many of those who voted him into office - don't like him any more. And, as a member of the military myself (have been for 15 years), Bush is very far from having the kind of support that would solidify his power in a way that matches historical precedent for other power grabs.

As scary as these videos are, I really don't think alarmist reactions are helpful.

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15. Comment #61886 by robert s on August 7, 2007 at 9:47 am

When Roosevelt ran for a third term, there was no legal impediment to that. After his death, Congress amended the constitution to make two terms the maximum. So if GWB were to seek re-election, he would be breaking the constitution (although hardly for the first time).

I wonder if this 'embassy' will start handing out white tabards with red crosses on them to the troops heading for Iraq and Afghanistan?

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16. Comment #61889 by USA_Limey on August 7, 2007 at 10:03 am

Robert S and J.C. Samuelson

Agreed, the amendment to the constitution limiting terms makes it less likely than the "Roosevelt scenario" I floated; but is it possible?

Given enough public histeria and panic over a second and bigger terrorist attack, (biological / chemical / nuke?), I can see a situation developing where Bush could end up with a third term. I am not saying LIKELY; so please don't misunderstand me; I am just saying possible.

Just a scary thought for a Tuesday afternoon!

:-)

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17. Comment #61906 by chbg21808 on August 7, 2007 at 11:11 am

So much for seperation of Church and State... Obviously not worth the paper it's written on.

I think it was Richard Dawkins who made the point that the US could be heading toward an American style Taliban... Well looking at this, I think that may be where its heading.

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18. Comment #61919 by Steven Mading on August 7, 2007 at 11:51 am

Here's what frustrates me: The US military is not powerful because of it's number of troops. Other countries can martial even bigger armies. The US military is not powerful because of good strategy, that's for sure. The US military is powerful because of scientists and engineers receiving big funding money who make the technology they use. And if surveys are to be believed, the subset of the US population consisting of scientists and engineers has a much higher percentage of atheists than the general population at large.

So now that the US military is exceedingly religious, they're using the power of the military to establish theocratic concepts.

In a way they're hijacking the work of atheists. If you're one of these engineers or scientists who works for a military contractor, and you happen to be an atheist, please seriously consider what you're doing to yourself here by putting more power into the hands of those who wish to turn it agaisnt you.

And, no, I'm not advocating a peacenik disband-the-military option here. I'm saying be more selective about whom you hand that military power to. Don't hand it to people who are opposed to you.

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19. Comment #61927 by Gadsden on August 7, 2007 at 12:51 pm

What surprises me is how much credit they are willing to give Jesus.

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20. Comment #61933 by RickM on August 7, 2007 at 1:22 pm

Well guys, it looks like a cover up to me. This is from the DoD IG report:

"Having fully considered the facts and circumstances surrounding the filming and
broadcast of the video, we determined that DoDD 1300.17, "Accommodation of Religious
Practices within the Military Services," dated February 3, 1988, was not germane to this
investigation, as the matter did not involve members engaged in religious observance or practice.
We also found no evidence that the DoD personnel participated in the video for the purpose of
proselytizing, or that the video was shown to audiences within the Pentagon."

The IG report can be found here:

http://www.dodig.mil/fo/Foia/ERR/Xtian_Embassy_072707.pdf

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21. Comment #61961 by zenmite on August 7, 2007 at 3:14 pm

Just more anecdotal evidence, but a few years ago my young nephew joined the US Marines. He was a liberal-minded atheist. After just a few weeks of basic training he called to inform us that he was now a born-again christian republican supporter of GW Bush. It sure smells like some form of indoctrination took place. Whether it was official coercing from above or simply peer pressure from his fellow soldiers I can't be sure. He's still in the military and still a christian. Sad and scary.

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22. Comment #61970 by Lil_Xunzian on August 7, 2007 at 4:13 pm

I think I might be the only American who sympathizes with the CCP's stand against religion, their methods maybe not. But Hu Jintao or a theocracy? No contest. I hope I don't sound too cruel when I say that I hope shit like this makes more people realize that the world would be better served if proselytizing were illegal.

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23. Comment #61973 by dhweaver on August 7, 2007 at 5:22 pm

Calm down fellow atheists. Let's not forget the Dobbs footage is about the Defense Department issuing "corrective action" to the seven high ranking officers taking part in the Christian Embassy video. That's still proof that it isn't cool in the US Military to go around proselytizing even under Bush's authority.

I was a US Marine myself during the Clinton years, and as I recall most people in the service kept their religious beliefs to themselves. Talking about God got the usual quiet chuckles unless of course it was from a high ranking officer (you wouldn't dare be caught laughing then). That's one of the most disturbing aspects of the video. 2 and 3 star Generals & Admirals should definitely know better. I hope the "corrective action" is more severe than the name implies.

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24. Comment #61976 by coretemprising on August 7, 2007 at 5:48 pm

zenmite, you have my sympathy.
I have often wondered how it is possible to change one's beliefs, seemingly so easily. But I ought to just look at myself I guess. Brought up Catholic (maybe that's the problem), atheist at 16 under the influence of Objectivism, into New Age stuff in my late 20s and thinking there's some sort of power out there (the Tao perhaps); BORN AGAIN at 31 and wondering how I never saw the glorious truth about the Lord all those years past; into a quasi-christian/jewish cult when I was 38 and praising Yahweh; becoming an atheist (again) smack in the middle of all that; dabbling very briefly with the idea that Kabbalah might have something worthwhile to say about existence; and then, about a year ago, coming to my senses (I think!) AGAIN, realizing that I was still just soooo gullible. Now, as I look back on all of this, I have to wonder--have I got it straight, finally? Is there something still "out there" that will shake my present atheistic convictions? I can't imagine any such thing at this point. And I submit there are two reason for my certainty. One is that I have examined and come to terms with many emotional issues that made me vulnerable to any suave charlatan that came along. (Part and parcel with that is that I am not likely to follow any group either.) And two, my intellectual undertanding and conviction is far greater than at any other time in my life. The biblical god (or any other as far as I'm concerned) does not exist, and Geezus is a fairy tale. If I ever turn away from what understanding I have now, then there's no sanity possible, anything goes, and it doesn't matter.

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25. Comment #61992 by Prieten on August 7, 2007 at 6:48 pm

Coretemprising, I have been there too. Raised in a Catholic family, I rejected that silliness as a teenager. But when I experienced some emotional problems in my twenties, I started attending a group similar to Alcoholics Anonymous, called Emotions Anonymous. Most everyone knows by now those groups are thinly veiled "religion as crutch" groups which encourage a return to religion. After a few very embarrassing episodes of stating my renewed belief in God to my parents, I thankfully came to the realization that talking with others was helping me, not this "higher power" that AA or EA was pushing. I have managed to stay atheist since then, but for a long time a quiet one, since openly saying you are an atheist in America has serious consequences for your career (I once had a boss who invited a minister from a local "Bible Institute" into his office every week for a prayer meeting). Thanks to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris (and to all of you here at RichardDawkins.net) I now feel proud and happy that I am not delusional. But in the back of my mind, there is this fear that some emotional stress might someday come again which could make me weak...

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26. Comment #61994 by Canuck#1 on August 7, 2007 at 7:05 pm

I wonder if discipline has changed in the military with all the praying and preaching...swearing gets you a reprimand... interupting a prayer meeting gets you a demotion... taking the lord's name in vain puts you in a military prison ...and questioning this strange, unlikeiy and perhaps uncontitutional scenario gets you a dishonourable discharge....we are living in the land of Oz...we just have to find the man behind the curtain...any suggestions???????

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27. Comment #62003 by oarwhat on August 7, 2007 at 9:02 pm

Pat Tillman was shot in the head three time with a pattern less than an inch. I would tend to think these nuts are serious. He was a devout atheist, and let people know this. With a cover up all the way to the white house. Hmmmm.

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28. Comment #62009 by Lil_Xunzian on August 7, 2007 at 11:26 pm

oarwhat,

I wouldn't be surprised if Pat Tillman was shot dead by a christian. I think in a certain respect patriotism can be defined as a virtue, and this will only make sense if I'm allowed to define "patriotism." First of all, I think it's a species of love, but love as a virtue, not as a sentiment (obviously). People who are just "sentimental" about their country can't rightly be described as "patriots." So, I think I would define "patriotism" as "desiring what's best for one's country" (defining "country" is a whole nother discussion that needs to happen). That's love (and haha I'm alluding to Augustine). That said, there's a big difference between loving your country because it's your country and loving your country because you love Jesus and you equate the two. Thus, Tillman, being an atheist, couldn't be said to have confused "love of country" with "love of Christ," so we know that he must have been a true patriot. Anyone who may have shot him due to frustration over the fact that he's an atheist cannot be said to be patriotic at all, merely confusing Christ for country, which in my mind is slightly treasonous.

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29. Comment #62107 by CruciFiction on August 8, 2007 at 7:36 am

And still more news being revealed about the Pentagon's religious activities:

"Kill Or Convert, Brought To You By the Pentagon"
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15&pid=220960

"...Operation Straight Up (OSU), [is] an evangelical entertainment troupe that actively proselytizes among active-duty members of the US military.

As an official arm of the Defense Department's America Supports You program, OSU plans to mail copies of the controversial apocalyptic video game, 'Left Behind: Eternal Forces' to soldiers serving in Iraq. OSU is also scheduled to embark on a "Military Crusade in Iraq" in the near future."

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30. Comment #62164 by dhweaver on August 8, 2007 at 1:14 pm

OK, Left Behind video game! Now that's just insanity. If Christians don't believe they're going to be left behind, why the hell do they need a video game about being left behind, much less those stupid ass books and movies? And just who do you suppose the bad guys getting shot to shit in this video game are? Hmmmmm.

I hope they make me into an Atheist Darklord they have to kill at the end of the 9th level before they get to the final Anti-Christ level. Bring it on Kirk Cameron!!!

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31. Comment #62311 by eevyl on August 9, 2007 at 8:38 am

sickening stuff

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