










Our Lives, Controlled From Some Guy's Couch2. Comment #63349 by Corylus on August 14, 2007 at 2:18 am
Dr. Bostrom doesn't pretend to know which of these hypotheses is more likely, but he thinks none of them can be ruled out. "My gut feeling, and it's nothing more than that," he says, "is that there's a 20 percent chance we're living in a computer simulation."
3. Comment #63353 by _J_ on August 14, 2007 at 2:36 am
I'm still filing this under "interesting but completely untestable explanations of existence."
They are Not about postulating possibilities, or for that matter assigning probabilities [...]This sort of brainless drivel makes me very cross.
4. Comment #63355 by Dunc-uk on August 14, 2007 at 2:43 am
5. Comment #63356 by Quetzalcoatl on August 14, 2007 at 2:44 am
6. Comment #63361 by BAEOZ on August 14, 2007 at 3:04 am
7. Comment #63362 by gordon on August 14, 2007 at 3:04 am
8. Comment #63364 by anandamide on August 14, 2007 at 3:08 am
9. Comment #63397 by DavidMarsh on August 14, 2007 at 4:33 am
10. Comment #63415 by the great teapot on August 14, 2007 at 5:11 am
4211. Comment #63423 by Machinus on August 14, 2007 at 5:32 am
This is nonsense. Computer simulations of life aren't alive, and we are certainly that.13. Comment #63431 by USA_Limey on August 14, 2007 at 5:48 am
14. Comment #63435 by Oliver Leif on August 14, 2007 at 6:08 am
"Getting through today's work load just got that little bit harder; given it's all just a pointless simulation and all."15. Comment #63439 by Dr Benway on August 14, 2007 at 6:17 am
16. Comment #63448 by pewkatchoo on August 14, 2007 at 11:53 am
17. Comment #63454 by Nails on August 14, 2007 at 12:10 pm
In fact, if you accept a pretty reasonable assumption of Dr. Bostrom's, it is almost a mathematical certainty that we are living in someone else's computer simulation.
"My gut feeling, and it's nothing more than that," he says, "is that there's a 20 percent chance we're living in a computer simulation."
18. Comment #63458 by joekoz451 on August 14, 2007 at 12:17 pm
"Of course, my gut gets a lot of things wrong. But I'm still filing this under "interesting but completely untestable explanations of existence."19. Comment #63459 by Nefrubyr on August 14, 2007 at 12:19 pm
This is nonsense. Computer simulations of life aren't alive, and we are certainly that.
Computers couldn't reproduce the detail that exists in reality anyway.
20. Comment #63461 by BicycleRepairMan on August 14, 2007 at 12:21 pm
21. Comment #63468 by Zakie Chan on August 14, 2007 at 12:36 pm
22. Comment #63477 by Pete_C on August 14, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Why does Nick assume that the simulations being run would be simulations of ancestors? Or use trends in our (presumably simulated) universe to gauge the probabilities of anything happening in the universe one level up?23. Comment #63485 by Dr Benway on August 14, 2007 at 1:21 pm
24. Comment #63494 by FitzRoy on August 14, 2007 at 2:16 pm
The notion is "Not even wrong," akin to Bertrand Russell's teapot in orbit between Earth and Mars.25. Comment #63496 by USA_Limey on August 14, 2007 at 2:18 pm
26. Comment #63497 by Zakie Chan on August 14, 2007 at 2:28 pm
27. Comment #63501 by sidfaiwu on August 14, 2007 at 3:33 pm
28. Comment #63504 by USA_Limey on August 14, 2007 at 3:40 pm
29. Comment #63507 by spellboots on August 14, 2007 at 3:49 pm
http://xkcd.com/117/30. Comment #63539 by Robert Maynard on August 14, 2007 at 6:10 pm
"My gut feeling, and it's nothing more than that," he says, "is that there's a 20 percent chance we're living in a computer simulation."Oh no! Please say you meant 15%, 20% is too high for comfort! ..What's that? That number is not based on anything?
31. Comment #63556 by Cycik on August 14, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Spellboots: Here is a funnier version.32. Comment #63571 by Rational_G on August 14, 2007 at 10:43 pm
33. Comment #63664 by stephenray on August 15, 2007 at 9:03 am
A thousand years after William of Ockham and there are philosophers who don't understand the principle of his razor.34. Comment #63749 by baal on August 15, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Well, as the article itself states, knowledge of whether Bostrom is correct or not is impossible (although it is interesting that Bostrom appears to have ignored qualia or Searle's Chinese Room argument in making his initial assumption - perhaps it is not all that reasonable to assume that computer simulations could be conscious). Also, as many posters here have already stated, a "20%" probability he is correct (on his own estimate) is unjustified except by the theorist's own "gut."35. Comment #63764 by Dr Benway on August 15, 2007 at 5:45 pm
If I had a swear box, it would be rather full and heavy after reading that article.I have a swear box. When it gets full, I take the money to the store for ice cream and chocolate. So all you shithead cunts can go fuck yourselves. Assholes.
36. Comment #63767 by BAEOZ on August 15, 2007 at 6:53 pm
The conclusion I am starting to come to is that metaphysics is interesting, but useless when it comes to producing knowledge
So all you shithead cunts can go fuck yourselves. Assholes.
37. Comment #63769 by The Schuermannator on August 15, 2007 at 7:18 pm
38. Comment #63776 by Russell Blackford on August 15, 2007 at 9:29 pm
I have to defend Nick here. He quite openly says that the 20 per cent gut feeling is no more than that. He doesn't expect anyone to agree; he doesn't think that the figure should carry any weight at all with anyone. Also, he doesn't conclude we are living in a computer simulation. He just does this thought experiment which says, this or that or the other, based on certain assumptions that lots of materialist philosophers find plausible (including a computationalist account of mind). As far I can see, he makes quite a good argument, based on his premises.39. Comment #63777 by BAEOZ on August 15, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Nick isn't like a religionist claiming to know the truth, let alone like one who wants to impose his "truth" on others or terrorise children with it.
40. Comment #63783 by Russell Blackford on August 15, 2007 at 10:34 pm
^The talk seemed to go well. I was preaching to the choir, but it led to a lot of good discussion about what we can/should be doing, here in Melbourne, to fight the forces of41. Comment #63785 by BAEOZ on August 15, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Pity you weren't able to stay. (It was nice to meet you, though
42. Comment #63786 by Russell Blackford on August 15, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Sorry, I met various people and I thought that one introduced himself as Barry and had to go before the talk. I took him to be you. How confusing! Maybe I misheard his name.43. Comment #63787 by BAEOZ on August 15, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I thought that one introduced himself as Barry
44. Comment #63792 by Russell Blackford on August 15, 2007 at 11:42 pm
^ Ah, so it's all just my confusion. Sorry about that. I plead only that being introduced to a whole bunch of people at once immediately before giving a talk can be confusing, at least for me. Oh well, the main thing is that it seemed to go okay.45. Comment #63794 by pewkatchoo on August 15, 2007 at 11:52 pm
46. Comment #63796 by Russell Blackford on August 15, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Not sure what you're getting at, pewkatchoo, but hi anyway. I don't think Occam's razor is the issue here, as no one is trying to explain anything. I mean of course we'd reach for Occam's razor if someone suggested that we're living in a world controlled by a Cartesian demon. The additional entity does no explanatory work, but that's not what this is all about.47. Comment #63798 by Corylus on August 16, 2007 at 12:07 am
Great! I don't get an upgrade to my life when the designer installs Vista Designer of the Universe edition then! There goes that fantasy!Probably a good thing Baeoz, you get the Vista upgrade and you sit happy and amazed at how old sections of your life load quickly onto it.
48. Comment #63799 by Corylus on August 16, 2007 at 12:22 am
49. Comment #64244 by irate_atheist on August 18, 2007 at 11:52 pm
50. Comment #99538 by djmwatts on December 17, 2007 at 2:46 am
No complex computer software yet built has been perfect. Therefore, if we are living in a computer simulation we would expect to see the effect of bugs on a regular basis and be able to use this to deduce the existence of the simulation.Send a letter to the editor of the original media outlet.
letters@nytimes.com
1. Comment #63345 by Nefrubyr on August 14, 2007 at 2:01 am
Or maybe we're not the point of the simulation. Maybe our architect (who gets conflated with the Prime Designer in the article) is interested in studying black holes and hasn't even noticed the emergent life on the insignificant planet?
I read about this theory a couple of months ago and the thing that bugged me about it then was the significance that it puts on computers, as if they're some fundamental force in the universe. What I mean is, a hundred years ago there were no computers and nobody had a concept of computer simulations. In a hundred years' time, we may have invented some new unthinkable device which even better explains the existence of our universe. My gut tells me that this theory will pass out of fashion as the novelty of computing wears off.
Of course, my gut gets a lot of things wrong. But I'm still filing this under "interesting but completely untestable explanations of existence."
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