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Sunday, September 9, 2007 | Reason : Commentary | print version Print | Comments

Document Review of Richard Dawkins' new book 'The Fascism Delusion'

by TheValve.org

OK, so it's not a real book, but I thought it was pretty hilarious.

Reposted from:
http://www.thevalve.org/go/valve/article/more_on_dawkins/
and
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/09/dawkins_demolished.php

The controversy stirred up by Dawkins's latest book The Fascism Delusion really seem to be heating up. Here is one recent review, from many, that takes him to task:


Only Dawkins, or perhaps his psychiatrist, can say why this subject seems to make him so angry; but he should be advised that the intemperate hostility he exhibits towards his subject is counterproductive. I'll eat my shiny peaked cap if this book persuades even the most hesitant half-Fascist to renounce his beliefs.

… [Dawkins's] sense of 'Fascism' is lamentably error-strewn. Dawkins has only a superficial knowledge of Mein Kamf, or the poetry of Marinetti; and he seems entirely ignorant of the much more subtle and intellectually stimulating work of Fascist philosophers such as Hermann Graf Keyserling, Alfred Baeumler, Martin Heidegger, Giovanni Gentile, Rafael Sánchez Mazas, Alain de Benoist and many others. Only somebody who has mastered the complete works of all these thinkers could even conceivably be in a position to advance an anti-Fascist argument. The lack of that necessary body of knowledge fatally undermines Dawkins's right to attack Fascism in the first place.

Right from the get-go he makes the mistake of talking about 'Fascism' as if it were some unified quality. Of course the truth is that there are a great many varieties and flavours of Fascism. Do his generalisations refer to Italian Fascism? Hitlerian fascism? Islamofascism? Falangism? Crypto-Fascism? Brazilian Integralism? It is meaningless to extract an idealised, monolithic 'fascism' from this myriad patchwork of human practices, even for polemical purposes. Nor is it right to call Fascism 'right-wing' (what about the career of Otto Johann Maximilian Strasser?) or 'militaristic' (many Fascists are wholly peaceable).

Dawkins repeatedly compares the best of non-Fascism to the worst of Fascism. He (again repeatedly) accuses Fascism of being an 'extremism'. There have been some Fascists who were extremists, of course; but this doesn't mean that Fascism itself is extremist. I certainly did not recognise myself, or any of my local Party organisation, in Dawkins's bitter, hate-filled portrayal. Worse, he does not seem to realise that his own position, so-called non-Fascism, is actually a kind of Fascism: a structure of belief determined by Fascism, dependent for many of its core ideas on Fascist traditions.

… Take for example this biased observation: "Fascism seeks to impose total state control over all aspects of life, from the political and cultural right down to questions of individual ethical and sexual choice. It valorises strength, and exalts the nation state as superior to the individuals composing it." Not even the junior Nazi Party secretary who first introduced me to Fascism believed that! ...

Almost all of Dawkins's claims are easily dismissed. His main one is that 'the fascist mindset' (whatever that is) 'enables people to commit appalling acts of barbarism and violence', that it 'encourages a tendency to separate humanity into sheep from goats, thereafter not only permitting but actively encouraging the persecution of the goats'. Then he trots out the tired old example of the holocaust. I've news for Professor Dawkins: yes, Fascists killed six million Jews in the 1940s. But they didn't do this because they were Fascists; but because they were human beings. All through history Jews have been killed. Killing Jews is one of the things that people have always done; deplorable, perhaps, but a fact of life. Since killing Jews predates Hitlerian Fascism, and since it has carried on after the decline in influence of Hitlerian Fascism, I think it's pretty obvious that this particular mass-murder of Jews had very little to do with Hitlerian Fascism, and everything to do with people's inherent capacity for evil—something, incidentally, for which Fascism has not only an explanatory theory, but a remedy; which is more than can be said for Professor Dawkins.

... Though he accuses Fascism of being an extremism; he flatly refuses to acknowledge the extremist bias of his own non-Fascist position. He is also blind to the obvious truth that his beloved non-Fascists have killed just as many people as have Fascists—more, indeed. Why doesn't Dawkins focus his polemic on them? The reason is that a peculiar hysterical hostility to the very idea of Fascism blinds him. (He claims for instance that 'non-Fascists don't do evil in the name of non-Fascism', which would be news to all the senior Fascists hanged by the Nuremberg anti-Fascist trials). All ideals – political, transcendent, human, or invented – are capable of being abused. And knowing this, we need to work out what to do about it, rather than lashing out uncritically at Fascism. But Dawkins cannot understand this.

I am not, of course, suggesting that Fascism has been perfect; no reasonable Fascist would. Whilst it's true that the Leader is the inerrant embodiment of the will of the People—ordinary Fascists themselves are prone to all the fallibilities of the human condition. Fascism has never claimed otherwise. But whilst Dawkins is happy to highlight the occasional bad consequences of Fascism, he wilfully ignores the good that Fascism manifestly has done in the world. There is no mention in this book of the prodigious architectural triumphs, the autobahns, the economic miracles, or most of all, the sense of belonging, purpose and meaning that being a member of a Fascist brotherhood brings to the ordinary man-in-the-street. All the evidence shows that Fascists are more likely than are non-Fascists to dedicate themselves selflessly to an ideal higher and to forego their own individual gratification; indeed for many people this is the point of Fascism.

Far from being a serious philosophical book, this ill-edited and garrulous diatribe contains just about anything that crosses the author's mind: page after sarcastic page of attacks against any aspect of Fascism Dawkins considers an easy target. Dawkins avoids the real question of whether one's political understanding terminates with a structureless, anarchic and social aggregation void of meaning, or with an authority who provides order, stability and reason for living. The bottom line is that Dawkins cannot affird to entertain the possibility that Fascism fills a deep-seated need in people. But the evidence that this is the case is so strong. Fascism could hardly have been as popular as it has been, for as long, otherwise.

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1. Comment #69012 by epeeist on September 9, 2007 at 1:40 pm

 avatarIs someone have to declare Poe's Law on this?

Very funny though

Other Comments by epeeist

2. Comment #69013 by Student Grant on September 9, 2007 at 1:44 pm

 avatarTerry Eagleton! Come out of the woodwork and confess! You wrote this!

Other Comments by Student Grant

3. Comment #69014 by BicycleRepairMan on September 9, 2007 at 1:47 pm

 avatarHaha, that was great.
.. the occasional bad consequences of Fascism

..Priceless quote

Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan

4. Comment #69016 by Northern Bright on September 9, 2007 at 1:53 pm

 avatar
Not even the junior Nazi Party secretary who first introduced me to Fascism believed that! ...

The funniest line in the funniest piece I have read for a long time!

What a brilliant parody! And very welcome after the stream of nonsense that's found its way into the press over the last week or so.

Other Comments by Northern Bright

5. Comment #69018 by Michael P. on September 9, 2007 at 1:54 pm

from World Net Daily's The Rise of Anti-Facist America:

"No question about it. America was founded by Fascists. Its very purpose for being was the furtherance of militant Fascism, according to the Pilgrims and succeeding generations. The nation's school system was created for the express purpose of propagating Fascist doctrine. Almost all of the Founding Fathers who drafted and signed the Constitution were Fascist believers. Even U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Josiah Brewer, in the high court's 1892 Ministry of the Trinity v. United States decision, proclaimed what was then considered obvious to just about everyone: "This is a Facist nation."

Other Comments by Michael P.

6. Comment #69023 by Crapsquire on September 9, 2007 at 2:06 pm

 avatarThanks! I just wet myself

Other Comments by Crapsquire

7. Comment #69024 by jaytee_555 on September 9, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Brilliantly funny and seriously penetrating. It is regretable that a weakness in appreciating irony so often goes with religious belief.

Other Comments by jaytee_555

8. Comment #69029 by ksskidude on September 9, 2007 at 2:32 pm

 avatarThat was brilliant! At first I was like, what! But I then qiuckly realized the irony of what was being said. How true this really is.

Other Comments by ksskidude

9. Comment #69030 by automath on September 9, 2007 at 2:35 pm

 avataroh I hope that hasn't upset the sensibilities of too many fascists! There again, since thinking seems beyond them, I suppose they'll rub it off by believing it's that ranting Hawkins once again.

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10. Comment #69032 by pewkatchoo on September 9, 2007 at 2:44 pm

 avatarjaytee and ksssdude
I guess you must be American. This is not irony, it is satire. You really need to look up irony.

Other Comments by pewkatchoo

11. Comment #69033 by 3ddm on September 9, 2007 at 2:46 pm

 avatarIncredible! I keep trying to use humour to convince the confused, but I think that this would go straight over most of their heads.

Don't know if this has been posted before:
South Park V Mormonism

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/59507/detail/
If not then enjoy :)

Other Comments by 3ddm

12. Comment #69034 by mdowe on September 9, 2007 at 2:49 pm

 avatarBravo! I wish I'd thought of it!

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13. Comment #69035 by J. J. Ramsey on September 9, 2007 at 3:11 pm

I'll ask the same question here as I did on the Valve: which brand of fascism is supposed to be analogous to Reform Judaism? Which brand is analogous to, say, the Episcopalian Church? Or Buddhism? Or Jainism?

Other Comments by J. J. Ramsey

14. Comment #69036 by Dr Benway on September 9, 2007 at 3:18 pm

 avatarJJ Ramsey:
...which brand of fascism is supposed to be analogous to Reform Judaism? Which brand is analogous to, say, the Episcopalian Church? Or Buddhism? Or Jainism?
Some say a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle...but what sort of man is like a Trek? a Schwinn? a Motobécane?

I've been revisiting the 1913 Armory Show. Here's a reaction to Matisse, and his reaction to the reaction:
The Blue Nude, Le Luxe, II and Goldfish and Sculpture were chosen by students at Chicago's Art Student's League as the most appalling and blasphemous pictures in the exhibition. The charges brought against him were "artistic murder, pictorial arson, artistic rapine, total degeneracy of color, criminal misuse of line, general aesthetic abberation, and contumacious abuse of title." Further illustrating the contempt audiences had for Matisse is William Zorach's later recollection of the reaction to Le Luxe, II in New York: "Matisse's paintings seem to bother people most -especially one of a woman with only four toes."

Matisse reportedly was so troubled by the public's reaction to his work that he implored in an interview, "Oh do tell the American people that I am a normal man; that I am a devoted husband and father, that I have three fine children, that I go to the theatre!" While Matisse maintained aspirations to bourgeois gentility, his work was seen by some as an attack on the progress of Western civilization as a whole.
Funny, isn't it, how things change. Matisse is entirely compatible with middle-brow taste today.

Everything will be all right.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

15. Comment #69037 by Jack Rawlinson on September 9, 2007 at 3:20 pm

 avatarI hate this, and I hate the person who wrote it.

Because, goddammit, I wish I'd written it myself!

Beautiful. I hope RD sees this. I think he'll appreciate it.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

16. Comment #69040 by J. J. Ramsey on September 9, 2007 at 3:24 pm

Dr. Benway: "Funny, isn't it, how things change. Matisse is entirely compatible with middle-brow taste today."

You dodged the question: which brand of fascism is supposed to be analogous to Reform Judaism, etc.?

Other Comments by J. J. Ramsey

17. Comment #69042 by dancingthemantaray on September 9, 2007 at 3:28 pm

Because, of course, for most people fascism isn't just men with odd mustaches barking policies at rallies, no one really believes in over medaled leaders dictating bizarre laws, fascism is love...

Other Comments by dancingthemantaray

18. Comment #69044 by J. J. Ramsey on September 9, 2007 at 3:31 pm

Jack Rawlinson: "I hope RD sees this. I think he'll appreciate it."

His opinion of it would certainly say what kind of man he is.

Other Comments by J. J. Ramsey

19. Comment #69047 by Dr Benway on September 9, 2007 at 3:36 pm

 avatarJJ Ramsey:
You dodged the question: which brand of fascism is supposed to be analogous to Reform Judaism, etc.?
You dodged the question: what sort of man is like a Schwinn?

Other Comments by Dr Benway

20. Comment #69055 by AntonAAK on September 9, 2007 at 3:54 pm

J J Ramsey


I'll ask the same question here as I did on the Valve: which brand of fascism is supposed to be analogous to Reform Judaism? Which brand is analogous to, say, the Episcopalian Church? Or Buddhism? Or Jainism?



Er.. I think you might have missed the point just a tad.

Other Comments by AntonAAK

21. Comment #69056 by skyhook87 on September 9, 2007 at 3:54 pm

Yes! I enjoyed that piece very much.

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22. Comment #69057 by pewkatchoo on September 9, 2007 at 3:57 pm

 avatarJJ Ramsey
Just leave your brain at the door. Oh you did!

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23. Comment #69058 by jaytee_555 on September 9, 2007 at 3:58 pm

Pewkatchoo says it's satire, not irony. Well, perhaps - but Wiki says:

Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is a gap or incongruity between what a speaker or a writer says and what is generally understood.

H. W. Fowler, in Modern English Usage, says:

Irony is a form of utterance that postulates a double audience, consisting of one party that hearing shall hear & shall not understand, & another party that, when more is meant than meets the ear, is aware both of that more & of the outsiders' incomprehension.

Seems enough wiggle-room there for me, though strictly pedantically, you could be right.

Pewkatchoo is off-topic, and so am I now, so let's drop it to avoid derailing the main discussion for a penn'orth of tar. (And yes, Pewkatchoo, I know that this is a mixed metaphor!).

JT (UK, actually)

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24. Comment #69060 by Crapsquire on September 9, 2007 at 4:03 pm

 avatarpewkatchoo said:

"jaytee and ksssdude
I guess you must be American. This is not irony, it is satire. You really need to look up irony."

Well, in fact, it is both. Satire often uses irony, and as can be found in this article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,985375,00.html

The New Oxford English Dictionary says:

"Irony is a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result."

"...saying the opposite of what is true in order to underline the truth.... Swift, by contrast, uses irony for polemical purposes, conjuring grotesque images ironically (babies being eaten, mankind enslaved to the morally superior horse) in order to state his case (that the Irish were starving, that humanity was going to the dogs) ever more forcefully."

Also see H. W. Fowler, in Modern English Usage:

"Irony is a form of utterance that postulates a double audience, consisting of one party that hearing shall hear & shall not understand, & another party that, when more is meant than meets the ear, is aware both of that more & of the outsiders' incomprehension."

Crapsquire

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25. Comment #69062 by Crapsquire on September 9, 2007 at 4:10 pm

 avatarI agree with jaytee_555 (who had an almost identical post to mine, though 5 min. ahead)-- let's move on shall we.

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26. Comment #69064 by robotaholic on September 9, 2007 at 4:14 pm

Comment #69032 pewkatchoo actually it could be considered irony and I am American:

In classical Greek comedy, there was sometimes a character called the eiron. He was a dissembler: someone who deliberately pretended to be less intelligent than he really was, and often spoke using understatement. (Incidentally, the eiron often came out on top.) The word irony is nowadays used in several slightly different ways, but they nearly all retain the idea of dissimulation, of a discrepancy between what is said and what is really the case or between what is expected and what really happens.

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27. Comment #69067 by ? on September 9, 2007 at 4:22 pm

 avatarJJ Ramsey--

I sort of agree with you that the analogy breaks down when dealing with the nicer more refined side of religion, but that is partially the point.

Lets switch to the more complex, less (currently) emotionally charged subject of monarchy. Not all monarchs and monarchies are evil, but when given the opportunity (i.e. when they are allowed to wield real power), many of them are.

And even if all current ones were fairly decent, one could still criticize the BASIC IDEA of monarchy or fascism, communism, tribalism or anything else on intellectual and moral grounds.

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28. Comment #69076 by J. J. Ramsey on September 9, 2007 at 4:43 pm

AntonAAK: "Er.. I think you might have missed the point just a tad."

Not at all. The parody only works if the analogy between religion and fascism is close enough.

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29. Comment #69081 by Mitchell Gilks on September 9, 2007 at 5:04 pm

 avatarNothing better than a brilliant argumentum reductio ad absurdum. Very nicely done, and a hilarious read.

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30. Comment #69096 by Bookman on September 9, 2007 at 5:39 pm

Parody, thy name is J.J. Ramsey.

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31. Comment #69098 by J. J. Ramsey on September 9, 2007 at 5:44 pm

Dr. Benway: "You dodged the question: what sort of man is like a Schwinn?"

Your example of an analogy is a bad example: It is comparing the usefulness of a man to a woman to the usefulness of a bicycle to a fish. The "Fascist Delusion" analogy is far more direct. The idea is that religion and fascism are rough equivalents, and the absurdity that is manifest when fascism is substituted for religion in critiques of The God Delusion is an absurdity inherent in the critiques rather than an absurdity that arises from the substitution. Of course, for this to work, religion and fascism have to be rough equivalents in relevant aspects, so asking questions about how close the religions that don't look fascist are to real fascism is legit.

Bookman: "Parody, thy name is J.J. Ramsey."

Loose translation: I don't want to confront that a grossly unfair and inflammatory analogy has been made.

Other Comments by J. J. Ramsey

32. Comment #69105 by Lightbulb on September 9, 2007 at 5:52 pm

 avatarJJ Ramsey:

This parody was meant to expose some of the obscurantist tactics the reviewers of The God Delusion resorted to in their reviews (apparently fascism can be defended with the same defense they used) and possibly to imply that they resorted to these tactics because of a lack of a real argument. It was probably not meant to compare religion and fascism except so far as to say that neither are healthy.

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33. Comment #69114 by J. J. Ramsey on September 9, 2007 at 6:19 pm

Lightbulb: "It was probably not meant to compare religion and fascism except so far as to say that neither are healthy."

The problem is that some of the substitutions don't make sense if the only thing they have in common is that they are unhealthy:

* "Right from the get-go he makes the mistake of talking about 'Fascism' as if it were some unified quality." The variant forms of fascism have a heck of a lot more in common than the variant forms of religions. There is at least a kernel of truth about the difficulty of making general statements about religion.

* "many Fascists are wholly peaceable." The statement looks silly for fascism, which really isn't peaceable, but religions are all over the map when it comes to brooking violence.

* "Though he accuses Fascism of being an extremism ..." Fascism is generally extremist, while religion, again, is all over the map when it comes to extremism and moderation.

Saying that fascism and religion are both unhealthy isn't saying much. Both mercury poisoning and a high-fat diet are unhealthy, but there is a pretty big difference in how much we can tolerate them.

Other Comments by J. J. Ramsey

34. Comment #69131 by chuckgoecke on September 9, 2007 at 6:50 pm

 avatarThis is pretty hilarious. Sorta makes me think, brother Stephan Colbert might have written it. As another hero of mine eluded to today, Garrison Keilor reminds us that irony is a sharp weapon in the hands of English Majors.
chuck

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35. Comment #69141 by Teratornis on September 9, 2007 at 7:13 pm

 avatar

23. Comment #69058 by jaytee_555 on September 9, 2007 at 3:58 pm
[...] but Wiki says:

Please, let's not muddy the distinction between "Wikipedia" and "Wiki." Referring to the former by the latter is like referring to Prof. Dawkins as "Ethologist" (rather than "an ethologist"). If we were citing Prof. Dawkins, we would not say "According to Ethologist, the gene is the unit of selection" - that would make no sense until we specified a particular ethologist. There are thousands of wikis (I administer three, and edit on a half-dozen more), and "Wiki" as a proper noun refers to "WikiWikiWeb" (the original wiki). Wikipedia is merely the most-visited wiki lately (and arguably one of the most successful implementations of wiki technology). See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

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36. Comment #69145 by Dr Benway on September 9, 2007 at 7:23 pm

 avatarJJ, religion isn't *like* fascism; that's not the comparison. The comparison is between critics of The God Delusion and critics of The Fascist Delusion. Both parties use the same arguments. But the arguments are funnier in the latter setting, because people don't have the same warm, fuzzy feelings toward fascism that they have toward religion.

Imagine these versions:
The Bicycle Delusion
The Fish Delusion

It always feels deeply wrong, having to explain a joke. But I fear someone will say, "Dawkins is calling religious people fascists!"

Anyone wanna bet some apologist will say this, regardless of anyone's attempts at clarification?

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37. Comment #69147 by prettygoodformonkeys on September 9, 2007 at 7:31 pm

 avatarThis thing is starting to rock

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38. Comment #69148 by Lightbulb on September 9, 2007 at 7:33 pm

 avatarJJ Ramsey:

As it is with a lot of parodies, this one is not meant to be an extensive analysis of the subject. It was not meant to analogize fascism to religion to the extent that you apparently think it did. The reviews of TGD were the direct target of the parody (specifically in their misrepresentation of Dawkins' argument), not religion. (And yes, some ludicrous statements for fascism were made that would be true for religions to a lesser degree).

"Both mercury poisoning and a high-fat diet are unhealthy, but there is a pretty big difference in how much we can tolerate them."

I certainly agree with the analogy. Ideally though, we would not have to deal with either.

Other Comments by Lightbulb

39. Comment #69153 by maton100 on September 9, 2007 at 7:49 pm

 avatarKeep up the good work. Humor is the only ammunition we really need against willful ignorance.

http://thestubborncurmudgeon.blogspot.com

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40. Comment #69160 by Lauregon on September 9, 2007 at 8:17 pm

JJ Ramsey, please try an application of some oil of lavender. You seem unduly wound up, and I've heard it's very soothing. ;)

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41. Comment #69173 by bouwe on September 9, 2007 at 9:35 pm

I would love to read more of the curmudgeon, however the red text on grey background makes my eyes hurt. A simple change of format would make me a regular peruser of his posts. I would be wincing with laughter instead of wincing just to read it. Through strained eyes, it is truly hilarious.

http://thestubborncurmudgeon.blogspot.com

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42. Comment #69176 by bouwe on September 9, 2007 at 9:41 pm

Sorry, I was responding to 39. Comment #69153 by maton100, not the above article. Back to topic....

And yes, some people will just see this as simply equating all religions and all belief in god with fascism, and not get (or choose not to get) the subtleties pointed out by others already in this forum. Cornball and Bunkum will be rubbing their hands....

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43. Comment #69179 by Russell Blackford on September 9, 2007 at 10:25 pm

The point is that people who run arguments like this are assuming that the phenomenon in question is fundamentally benign. It is very difficult to say that with a straight face about religion. The best that can be said for it is that much of it - though by no means all, or even most - has evolved into relatively benign modern variants.

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44. Comment #69181 by Eric Blair on September 9, 2007 at 10:52 pm

This is cute and exquisitely carried off. It is of course satire, but could be seen also as irony (in its entirety) in that its true intended criticism is the opposite -- or something dramatically different -- from what it literally addresses.

Here, actually, is where JJ Ramsey may have a point. Does the author see Fascism as the opposite or even something dramatically different from religion? I suspect not. Yes, it's true that Fascism has few admirers and thus few obvious "good" points to quibble over, so it's a useful and entertaining way to show how the response of theists to Dawkins appears to atheists.

But most believers would not find this funny because they don't accept the new paradigm Dawkins et al. have presented. Which is, that religion qua region is basically all cut from the same irrational cloth. Distinctions, they say, miss the point: there is no evidence for any of it and one believer's dogma is as silly as the next because it just ain't true.

This in fact highlights why true debate is almost impossible between atheists and theists.

Atheists see religion (or at least the three big ones) as essentially monolithic in its key points, and most notably its bad points. Believers, not surprisingly, see mainly the differences, as these distinctions are what they live by.

How can you debate when you can't agree on the terms? Almost all the debates we've seen on this site have dissolved into the two sides launching lines of argument that never meet, side disputes or name-calling because of this basic failing.

Perhaps the next debate can try to resolve this issue before it starts. Might make for less predictable results.

EB

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45. Comment #69183 by BAEOZ on September 9, 2007 at 11:01 pm

 avatarEric Blair, your comment makes a lot of sense. To me, and I suspect other atheists, belief in god is irrational and as such religion is irrational. To believers, it's not a question of it being an irrational whole, their little part gives their life meaning and is different to the religion that atheists attack....

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46. Comment #69185 by atp on September 9, 2007 at 11:13 pm

Ramsey: «The parody only works if the analogy between religion and fascism is close enough.»

No Ramsey. This piece does not rely on comparing religion and facism. What it does is taking the arguments against the attack on facism is the same as the arguments against the attack on religion. And since the arguments works and we still know fascism is bad, we have an absurd situation. And this shows that arguments themselves are flawed.

So this writing does NOT rely on comparing fascism with religion.

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47. Comment #69189 by Et in Arcadia ego on September 9, 2007 at 11:47 pm

"I'll ask the same question here as I did on the Valve: which brand of fascism is supposed to be analogous to Reform Judaism?"

Easy .
Gianfranco Fini's Alleanza Nazionale !

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48. Comment #69194 by Atticus_of_Amber on September 10, 2007 at 12:47 am

 avatarIt's been said before, but I think this parody would have been better if it reviewed 'The Communism Delusion".

Why? Because there are fluffy commies who are harmless in themselves, but who promote irrational dogmas that can have pretty icky consequences. The "but there are nice communists" objection doesn't hold much water in a critique of Communist ideas. Here I think the analogy with the criticism of Dawkins' work is a good one.

The problem, of course, is that there are sure to be a few denizens of this board who will insist that Communism is a "great idea" or even a "scientific idea" and will argue that it has been corrupted by evil men like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. Funny how that argument sounds familiar...

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49. Comment #69199 by pewkatchoo on September 10, 2007 at 1:43 am

 avatarI still interpret this as satire or parody and not irony, but agree that it is a bit off-topic interesting though Robotaholic's dissertation is as I was not aware of the Greek connection. Why I like this site I learn something new every day.

I think the alusion to fascism works better than would communism. There is a visceral dislike of fascism whereas communism is still seen as a valid intellectual exercise by many and does not get quite the same reaction.

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50. Comment #69200 by Atticus_of_Amber on September 10, 2007 at 2:02 am

 avatar"I think the allusion to fascism works better than would communism. There is a visceral dislike of fascism whereas communism is still seen as a valid intellectual exercise by many and does not get quite the same reaction."

But that's exactly why I think the analogy would be more fair. :shrug:

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