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Friday, September 14, 2007 | Reason : Science of Religion | print version Print | Comments

Document How the Public Resolves Conflicts Between Faith and Science

by Pew Research, David Masci

Thanks to Tim DiChiara for the link.

Reposted from:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/578/when-science-and-faith-compete-faith-usually-wins

On Subjects such as Evolution, Many Americans Are Aware of -- but Reject -- the Scientific Consensus

by David Masci, Senior Research Fellow, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
August 27, 2007

The relationship between faith and science in the United States seems, at least on the surface, to be paradoxical. Surveys repeatedly show that most Americans respect science and the benefits it brings to society, such as new technologies and medical treatments. And yet, religious convictions limit many Americans' willingness to accept controversial scientific theories as well as certain types of scientific research, such as the potential use of embryonic stem cells for medical treatments.

Science and religion have traditionally, and often incorrectly, been viewed as enemies. This perception has been fueled in part by a number of famous episodes in history that have pitted scientists, like Galileo and Darwin, against the prevailing religious establishments of their time. But more often than not, scientists and people of faith have operated not at cross purposes but simply at different purposes.

Today the situation is much the same. Certainly, there are modern scientists who are actively hostile to religious belief. British biologist Richard Dawkins, for instance, in his best-selling book, The God Delusion, argues that many social ills – from bigotry to ignorance – can be blamed, at least in part, on religion. In addition, a significant number of scientists – roughly a third according to a 2006 Rice University survey of more than 750 professors in the natural sciences – do not believe in God, compared with only one-in-twenty in the general population. But regardless of their personal views, most scientists tend to view the two disciplines as distinct, with each attempting to answer different kinds of questions using different methods. The late evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould famously referred to this complementary relationship as "non-overlapping magisteria."

But there are times when the "magisteria" do overlap. The debate over the origins and development of life is the most compelling example of this. All but a small number of scientists regard Darwin's theory of evolution through natural selection as an established fact. And yet, a substantial majority of Americans, many of whom are deeply religious, reject the notion that life evolved through natural forces alone.

Indeed, according to a 2006 survey from the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life and the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, 42% of Americans reject the notion that life on earth evolved and believe instead that humans and other living things have always existed in their present form. Among white evangelical Protestants – many of whom regard the Bible as the inerrant word of God – 65% hold this view. Moreover, in the same poll, 21% of those surveyed say that although life has evolved, these changes were guided by a supreme being. Only a minority, about a quarter (26%) of respondents, say that they accept evolution through natural processes or natural selection alone.

Interestingly, many of those who reject natural selection recognize that scientists themselves fully accept Darwin's theory. In the same 2006 Pew poll, nearly two-thirds of adults (62%) say that they believe that scientists agree on the validity of evolution. Moreover, Americans, including religious Americans, hold science and scientists in very high regard. A 2006 survey conducted by Virginia Commonwealth University found that most people (87%) think that scientific developments make society better. Among those who describe themselves as being very religious, the same number – 87% – share that opinion.

So what is at work here? How can Americans say that they respect science and even know what scientists believe and yet still disagree with the scientific community on some fundamental questions? The answer is that much of the general public simply chooses not to believe the scientific theories and discoveries that seem to contradict long-held religious or other important beliefs.

When asked what they would do if scientists were to disprove a particular religious belief, nearly two-thirds (64%) of people say they would continue to hold to what their religion teaches rather than accept the contrary scientific finding, according to the results of an October 2006 Time magazine poll. Indeed, in a May 2007 Gallup poll, only 14% of those who say they do not believe in evolution cite lack of evidence as the main reason underpinning their views; more people cite their belief in Jesus (19%), God (16%) or religion generally (16%) as their reason for rejecting Darwin's theory.

This reliance on religious faith may help explain why so many people do not see science as a direct threat to religion. Only 28% of respondents in the same Time poll say that scientific advancements threaten their religious beliefs. These poll results also show that more than four-fifths of respondents (81%) say that "recent discoveries and advances" in science have not significantly impacted their religious views. In fact, 14% say that these discoveries have actually made them more religious. Only 4% say that science has made them less religious.

These data once again show that, in the minds of most people in the United States, there is no real clash between science and religion. And when the two realms offer seemingly contradictory explanations (as in the case of evolution), religious people, who make up a majority of Americans, may rely primarily upon their faith for answers.

Comments 1 - 23 of 23 |

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1. Comment #70303 by Theocrapcy on September 14, 2007 at 8:16 pm

 avataryeah, but no, but yeah, but no, but....

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2. Comment #70307 by ChrisMcL on September 14, 2007 at 8:44 pm

 avatarThis article and other indications show that if we want to produce more atheists in the world, we must do so indirectly. It's not enough to prove that somone's religious belief is wrong. Atheists have been doing that very effectively since Epicurus.

We might try to just create an environment more conducive to atheistic thinking instead of frontal attacks on religion. Many people get sucked into religious faith when they are sick or in some other trouble. Support of universal health care (in the U.S.) and a more fair distribution of wealth, among other things, remove some of the breeding grounds for religion.

Other Comments by ChrisMcL

3. Comment #70308 by oxytocin on September 14, 2007 at 8:49 pm

 avatarJust to let everyone know, there's a debate on this data with regard to the "framing" of science.

You can find it here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/09/note_to_self_dont_go_easy_on_e.php

and here:

http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2007/09/aaas_panel_communicating_scien.php

Other Comments by oxytocin

4. Comment #70315 by atp on September 14, 2007 at 11:15 pm

I thought the conclusion to this text was a bit strange.

First it is shown that people reject knowledge if the knowledge contradicts their religion. Then "These data once again show that, in the minds of most people in the United States, there is no real clash between science and religion"

If science is rejected because the knowledge contradicts a persons religion, I would say there's a serious clash here. Is it only me?

Other Comments by atp

5. Comment #70355 by Graeme on September 15, 2007 at 3:42 am

"Indeed, in a May 2007 Gallup poll, only 14% of those who say they do not believe in evolution cite lack of evidence as the main reason underpinning their views; more people cite their belief in Jesus (19%), God (16%) or religion generally (16%) as their reason for rejecting Darwin's theory."

How does it go...?

"There are none so blind as those who will not see..."

Other Comments by Graeme

6. Comment #70374 by Fedler on September 15, 2007 at 6:30 am

 avatarI agree, atp. The conclusion seemed to contradict the rest of the article. If religious believers knowingly and willingly prefer to disregard the proven facts in favor of unsubstantiated religious beliefs, than that is a clash - a very personal, very intentional, and very conscious clash.

I guess sometimes it truly is just easier and more comfortable to believe the lie.

Other Comments by Fedler

7. Comment #70378 by Dr Benway on September 15, 2007 at 6:52 am

 avatarMaybe the author means, no clash people worry about. The details of God's plan still fit nicely into current gaps in scientific understanding.

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8. Comment #70387 by Delphine on September 15, 2007 at 8:19 am

 avatarMedical advances and other new technologies have practical results that people can see, but many religious people don't see the same sort of "proof" for evolutionary "theory".

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9. Comment #70390 by thirdchimpanzee on September 15, 2007 at 8:54 am

Interesting that the major reasons cited by the religious to reject evolution had nothing to say about evolution - Jesus, God or Religion in general. There is only the book of Genesis (as far as I know) that has anything to say about the origin of life and humanity - and I would therefore expect Genesis to be the primary citation.

Which brings up an important point - most religious types simply don't understand or know the fundamental precepts of their own faiths. The Christian fundamentalists who are attacking evolution DO understand the implications of their faith - and I respect them for that. The great majority of Christians, Muslims etc are too intellectually lazy to think it through, and I think what we're seeing in these polls is a basic herd mentality at work.

The pollster doesn't ask the respondents exactly what aspect of Jesus, God etc that causes them to dismiss 150 years of science, and also fails, of course, to elicit any details regarding their own "theory".

The picture in the UK is somewhat better, with twice as many respondents believing in evolution. At 48%, this still isn't a majority, and encouragingly only 22% believed in Creationism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4648598.stm

I'm sure the majority of American and UK respondents who reject evolution consider themselves otherwise rational members of advanced societies (just watch Ted Haggard proclaim his love of Science to RD). But they are never called upon to actually put the pieces of their "theory" together and explain how they account for even a fraction of the empirical data being generated.

Here's the rub - and this extends well beyond science vs religion - humans are generally ill-equipped mentally to handle to vast quantities of data that are being generated by millions of scientists worldwide. Yet on a planet bursting at the seams with 6-7 billion people, about to tip into major climate change, we are at the mercy of electorates that haven't got clue what's going on!

The Christian right (and their cynical Republican enablers like Karl Rove) have understood this dynamic only too well - to the extent of proclaiming that they can "make reality". The sad conclusion of these surveys is that if reality is defined as the common perception of people - they're right.

I'm not sure we have time to try and correct this through improvements in Science education per se, since regular Science teachers have enough difficulty overcoming the "common sense" physics and biology students bring to the class anyway. I think the British results should be viewed as encouraging - in a society far less religious that the US, with arguably a worse education system, almost half the population can accept the theory of evolution. That this has direct political consequences can be seen from the different treatment of Climate Change in the two countries.

I propose that we change tack in the US and invite ID and Creationism into High School Biology classes, and proceed to demonstrate how these "ideas" are empty of any scientific value, and provide no predictive ability whatsoever. This won't be hard to do - any lessons in comparative anatomy would do to begin with.

Other Comments by thirdchimpanzee

10. Comment #70393 by Duff on September 15, 2007 at 9:37 am

What these data show is that to be religious requires not just that a person disengage from reality (science) but that he/she also be able to live for long periods of time with their head firmly implanted up the alimentary canal.

Other Comments by Duff

11. Comment #70406 by artemisa on September 15, 2007 at 11:15 am

Someone posted that people get close to religion when life presents serious challenges. With me it was the reverse. I used to pray and ask for guidance for most of my life. But gradually I began to suspect that I was wasting my time. While at the library, not planned, I saw the book by Thomas Payne "Age of Reason" and that begun my transformation to atheism.It still took several years to fully come around but I did. Also reading the articles at Nauralism.org helped me a lot and of course reading articles articles here plus the responses has helped a lot.
As far as evolution is concerned my belief is that most people are not really all that familiar with it. And I think people don't try to learn because they think it contradicts their beliefs, and it does. My family are not that religious but they don't welcome my atheist comments.I guess a person will question their beliefs when they're ready.

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12. Comment #70420 by robotaholic on September 15, 2007 at 11:54 am

 avatarI am hearing so many statistics that I am becoming a member of the information society. I had to review http://www.statistics.com/ to learn how to read the data...lol

Other Comments by robotaholic

13. Comment #70534 by eric.malitz on September 15, 2007 at 11:30 pm

I hope Gould is turning in his grave for that comment. It makes me furious every time I hear it.

"These poll results also show that more than four-fifths of respondents (81%) say that "recent discoveries and advances" in science have not significantly impacted their religious views."

Can you imagine going back in time and educating someone from the 12th century? I wonder if it would threaten their beliefs then, when they hadn't had 900 years to slowly perfect their tip-toeing around the coming scientific advancements, redefining their tennets the whole way with each new discovery.
EVERYTHING that is the foundation of their religion is contradicted by scientific discourse-particularly biology, physics, geology, and including serious study of history and ethics.

When someone redefines their god to the modern wishy washy moderate left wing version, yelling "straw man!" every time someone(dawkins, harris et al) addresses 'yahweh', just ask them where they got the idea of god at all. From the bible, or someone who got it from the bible, or someone who got it from someone who got it from...

Non-overlapping magisteria indeed...science answers real world questions, religion answers biblically (koranically, tribally, etc.) determined questions- and the questions science cant right now answer.
"Oh I dont know evolutionary biology so I will just be parsimonious and plug my god in there. Variation-smaration, god works in mysterious ways."

Other Comments by eric.malitz

14. Comment #70543 by dsainty on September 16, 2007 at 1:37 am

atp/Fedler/Benway: I think what the author means is that people hold that there is no real clash between "science" and "religion", regardless of whether that is a logically inconsistent position or not.

It'd be interesting (but also probably a foregone conclusion) to see whether there is a correlation between ability in solving simple logic problems, and religious conviction.

Other Comments by dsainty

15. Comment #70562 by scooternyc on September 16, 2007 at 4:32 am

 avatar"On Subjects such as Evolution, Many Americans Are Aware of -- but Reject -- the Scientific Consensus"

Science is not a "consensus", that's a political term, often used of late with Gorebal Warming, as well.

Science is based on empirical evidence and fact, not opinion.

This is one reason people are confused by Evolution and they are confused about Gorebal Warming, they think a bunch of people got together and they all agreed.

No.

Has ANYONE presented ONE piece of evidence that can be tested that refutes Evolution?

No, they have not.

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16. Comment #70565 by scooternyc on September 16, 2007 at 4:43 am

 avatarOne other thing, after reading this article, it's easy to see why scientists think that the public is ignorant, stupid and feel contempt toward them - because they are often times.

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17. Comment #70648 by devolved on September 16, 2007 at 12:55 pm

Comment #70390 by thirdchimpanzee

I propose that we change tack in the US and invite ID and Creationism into High School Biology classes, and proceed to demonstrate how these "ideas" are empty of any scientific value, and provide no predictive ability whatsoever. This won't be hard to do - any lessons in comparative anatomy would do to begin with.


Heres an idea you could start with:

'A cell needs over 75 "helper molecules", all working together in harmony, to make one protein (R-group series) as instructed by one DNA base series. A few of these molecules are RNA (messenger, transfer, and ribosomal RNA); most are highly specific proteins.

'When it comes to "translating" DNA's instructions for making proteins, the real "heroes" are the activating enzymes. Enzymes are proteins with special slots for selecting and holding other molecules for speedy reaction. Each activating enzyme has five slots: two for chemical coupling, one for energy (ATP), and most importantly, two to establish a non-chemical three-base "code name" for each different amino acid R-group. You may find that awe-inspiring, and so do my cell-biology students! [Even more awe-inspiring, since the more recent discovery that some of the activating enzymes have editing machinery to remove errant products, including an ingenious "double sieve" system.[2],[3]]

'And that's not the end of the story. The living cell requires at least 20 of these activating enzymes I call "translases," one for each of the specific R-group/code name (amino acid/tRNA) pairs. Even so, the whole set of translases (100 specific active sites) would be (1) worthless without ribosomes (50 proteins plus rRNA) to break the base-coded message of heredity into three-letter code names; (2) destructive without a continuously renewed supply of ATP energy [as recently shown, this is produced by ATP synthase, an enzyme containing a miniature motor, F1-ATPase.[4],[5],[6],[7]] to keep the translases from tearing up the pairs they are supposed to form; and (3) vanishing if it weren't for having translases and other specific proteins to re-make the translase proteins that are continuously and rapidly wearing out because of the destructive effects of time and chance on protein structure! [8]

One can give such descriptions some serious thought, or repeat the evolutionist's mantra, 'But with enough time anything is possible' and change the topic real fast!

Here's the full scientific article

http://www.trueorigin.org/dawkinfo.asp

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18. Comment #70733 by Damien White on September 16, 2007 at 7:32 pm

"Indeed, in a May 2007 Gallup poll, only 14% of those who say they do not believe in evolution cite lack of evidence as the main reason underpinning their views; more people cite their belief in Jesus (19%), God (16%) or religion generally (16%) as their reason for rejecting Darwin's theory."

14 + 19 + 16 + 16 = 65%

What do the rest of them cite? The healing power of crystals?

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19. Comment #70735 by discipline on September 16, 2007 at 7:38 pm

devolved:

RE the article you linked to: perhaps you should have put "scientific" in quotations. Like so much creationist nonsense -- and pseudo-science in general -- you've got the veneer of real science down, but there's something missing . . . oh yeah, reality!

Funny how reality often gets in the way of what we'd like to believe.

For those gluttons for punishment, here's a bio of the author (Royal Truman) from everybody's favorite young-earth creationists, Answers in Genesis:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/r_truman.asp

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20. Comment #70991 by devolved on September 17, 2007 at 12:18 pm

discipline wrote

Funny how reality often gets in the way of what we'd like to believe.

Absolutely right! And as ever not a shred of science to refute the post. Why am I not surprised.

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21. Comment #71001 by Bonzai on September 17, 2007 at 12:52 pm

I think many people identify science with technology and gadgets. True that technology is the fruit of science, but science is much more than making better widgets and techniques for problem solving. It is a coherent world view. By looking at science from such a utilitarian standpoint I suppose it is possible to reconcile science and "faith". Even Muslim fundamentalists use the internet for recruitment.

I take a dim view about efforts to "resolve" the conflict between science and "faith".

In some sense the conflict is real and wishy washy reconciliation of science and faith is intellectually dishonest. Since religion is so flexible one can always empty out the empirical content of any theistic belief that it does not collide head on with science. But the spirit of science and religion is nevertheless opposite and scientific data impose very tight constraints on the kind of God that is feasible and there isn't much room except for the useless God of the gap.

Some scientists are able to compartmentalize their brains in such a way that they retain their personal faith. But the conflict is not "resolved", it just lies dormant.

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22. Comment #71011 by Bonzai on September 17, 2007 at 1:16 pm

One can give such descriptions some serious thought, or repeat the evolutionist's mantra, 'But with enough time anything is possible' and change the topic real fast!


Even if evolution is absolutely wrong, how does it follow that the creationists are right? "God made it" is not an explanation for anything even though syntacally it may look like an explanation. It has absolutely no testable consequences and is infinitely ad hoc, we can't predict or understanding anything with the one size fits all "answer" "God made it". There has not been a SINGLE scientific progress coming from the "answer" "God made it". In fact it is the most effective way to shut down any further possibility of inquiry.

This is just silly.

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23. Comment #112570 by the_ultimate_samurai on January 17, 2008 at 1:33 pm


Absolutely right! And as ever not a shred of science to refute the post. Why am I not surprised.


evidence to refute the post? to refute what? what did you propose? did you MAKE a proposition, you explained how the cell works in its current form...thats all. and you explained using information attained through biology. you didnt use passages of the bible which mention dna transcription, you didnt mention sermons of jesus where he explained the use of ATP or the precense of cells in the body. you used science.
now, follow that a little further, and you will find the scientific theory known as EVOLUTION, supported by such wonderful facts as SEEING IT HAPPEN.
another wonderful thing about science, it seeks to EXPLAIN things, make TESTABLE PREDICTIONS, and evaluate the results. creationism and all its retarded ilk do none of those things, it serves only to disprove evolution. scientific theories many times DO disprove other theories, but that isnt the cause....its the effect.
for creationism...its the cause. they exist only to disprove evolution, not to make testable predictions.
evolution has explanations of the origin of the modern cell, there is quite a bit of wonder to be had at such a marvelous machine, it is a wonder of nature, a testament to evolution, but not evidence of a god.

this is one of many areas that ID proponent tend to annoy me. they say "its created" they support it with "it looks created" but they dont specify the conditions by which a person can say "this looks created"
for instance, if i was a statue of micheangelo's david, sure i could say "someone made this" but whats more, i can prove it. i can point out tool marks on the statue, i can replicate the marks using tools of the era, i can seek historical data which claims he made it, i can trace that style of sculpture to the time, i can date it for age to put it around the time of micheangelo. science isnt content to just say "it looks like it, so it is." science can PROVE that it is, colloquially speaking of course, science doesnt by nature "prove" anything, but by the layman understanding of prove "to produce overwhelming evidence in support of the supposition" then it can.

but creationist cant do this, they cant say the means by which one can determine something was designed. i think they dont WANT to, since then you can provide counter evidence, you can bring up something that fits that bill but which you KNOW wasnt designed.

but of course, we know they arent science, they know they arent science, thats why they appeal to the populus to get their ideas through, and not the scientific process.

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