Wednesday, October 3, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version

Hirsi Ali Returns to the Netherlands after Losing Body Guards

by Spiegel Online

UPDATE: A petition has been started for this issue here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/hirsiali/

Reposted from:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,509067,00.html

Ayaan

Former Dutch legislator and Islam critic Hirsi Ali has been under state-funded protection since extremists began threatening her life in 2004. Now the Dutch government has said it won't pay for her protection if she continues to live and work in the United States.

Writer and former Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali returned to the Netherlands on Monday after living in the United States and working for a prominent conservative think tank. The move came after the Dutch government said it would no longer pay for her security needs in Washington.

The Dutch government has provided Hirsi Ali with police protection since the 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a radical Islamist. Hirsi Ali became internationally prominent because of her uncompromising criticism (more...) of Islam in the wake of the slaying -- a position which has made her the subject of repeated death threats. In 2006, she left the Netherlands at the center of a scandal that would eventually cost the country's then-integration minister, Rita Verdonk, her job.

According to the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad, Hirsi Ali returned Monday to her adopted country, the Netherlands, where she is entitled to state-funded protection.

Sybrand van Haersmma Buma, the ruling Christian Democrat Party's security-issues spokesman, defended the government's decision, saying that the state-funded protection in the US was only meant to last through Hirsi Ali's first year abroad and that it had only been granted due to "extraordinary circumstances," the Associated Press reported him as saying.

"It was a temporary measure," van Haersmma Buma told Dutch NOS television Monday. "The responsibility for her security should be taken on by the US government," van Haersmma Buma added, arguing that handling Hirsi Ali's security arrangements in a foreign country was taxing.

Hirsi Ali first entered the international public spotlight in 2004 when she collaborated with Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh on Submission, a short film highly critical of Islam's treatment of women. The film led to van Gogh's murder by a radical Muslim angered by the film's depiction of Islam. A note the murderer, now serving a life sentence in prison, left attached to van Gogh's body with a knife threatened Hirsi Ali's life. She was forced to go into hiding temporarilyand only emerged later under police protection.
From 2003 to 2006, Hirsi Ali served in the lower house of the Dutch parliament. In 2006, she resigned from her position after hardline Dutch Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk tried to revoke her Dutch passport because Hirsi Ali had provided false information when she applied for asylum in 1992. The resulting controversy led to widespread public outcry in the Netherlands and abroad, and Verdonk was forced to back down.

Since then, Hirsi Ali has been a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think-tank based in Washington, DC. Her autobiography, entitled "Infidel," was released in the US earlier this year and became a best-seller. Her security in the US was increased in March after she received more death threats there.

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1. Comment #75715 by obscured by clouds on October 3, 2007 at 12:48 pm

That sucks but I understand why. She was by far the most impressive speaker at AAI. I can't wait till the video gets done for all to see.

Other Comments by obscured by clouds

2. Comment #75719 by jimbob on October 3, 2007 at 1:01 pm

I wonder if a book could ever illustrate the difference between humanistic morality and theistic morality better than Infidel.

Every teacher, politician, and western female should read it (and so should everybody else!).

Good luck to you Aayan -- your intelligence and courage are inspirational!

Other Comments by jimbob

3. Comment #75726 by Monera Man on October 3, 2007 at 1:18 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute

AEI has received more than $30 million (combined) in funding from sources including:[20]

* The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Inc.
* Castle Rock Foundation
* Coors Brewing Company
* Earhart Foundation
* ExxonMobil
* JM Foundation
* Microsoft Corporation [1]
* Philip M. McKenna Foundation, Inc.
* John M. Olin Foundation, Inc.
* Rockefeller Brothers Fund[21]
* Sarah Scaife Foundation
* Scaife Family Foundation
* Smith Richardson Foundation

Guess the Scaifes and the Olins couldn't cough up a coupla bucks
for some Blackwater rent-a-thugs huh?

They had the bucks for Charles Murray though.

The AEI and their "friends" have *plenty* of money.

But not for her.

One less viper to worry about.

Other Comments by Monera Man

4. Comment #75732 by Mango on October 3, 2007 at 2:04 pm

She was by far the most impressive speaker at AAI.

She just read, it seemed, directly from her book. Harris and Dennett had by far more interesting, intellectually stimulating presentations.

Other Comments by Mango

5. Comment #75755 by obscured by clouds on October 3, 2007 at 2:53 pm

She just read, it seemed, directly from her book. Harris and Dennett had by far more interesting, intellectually stimulating presentations.

Well I wont disagree with that. I would point out they are "old hands" that have perfected their craft. She on the other hand is not in their league. And even Dennett was impressed with her speech and openly gave her support. My comment was not to take away from the others, but her situation is unique. She handled it with wit and charm and was impressive to watch.

Other Comments by obscured by clouds

6. Comment #75757 by Steven Mading on October 3, 2007 at 2:59 pm

How is it that after seeing the execution of Theo Van Gogh and the threats to do the same to Ayan, people can still say "Islam is the religion of Peace"? If they won't allow dissenters, and they won't allow people to leave the religion if they want to, that prevents peaceful coexistance.

Other Comments by Steven Mading

7. Comment #75764 by Aquambulus hirsutus on October 3, 2007 at 3:14 pm

Monera Man (75726)

It's rather costly - apparently, about $6 million a year in body guards' salaries alone. More information at http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/03/news/dutch.php

Other Comments by Aquambulus hirsutus

8. Comment #75775 by SilentMike on October 3, 2007 at 3:44 pm

It is kind of rude of her to get protection and then not go to the place where an attempt on her life would be likely to occure. Is she trying to waste the hard earned duch taxpayer's money?

I hope my intention in the above paragraph is clear.

Other Comments by SilentMike

9. Comment #75782 by lairdoflard on October 3, 2007 at 4:02 pm

I have just ordered her book Infidel from amazon.ca and look forward to reading it. I'm a little uneasy at her association with the AEI, home to such luminaries as Richard Perle, Newt Gingrich and Chas Murray. But even if I have political issues/differences with her, I have nothing but admiration for her stance, at huge personal cost, against the evil that religion promotes.

Other Comments by lairdoflard

10. Comment #75786 by Jack Rawlinson on October 3, 2007 at 4:11 pm

It wasn't her talk that impressed me, it was how she handled the questions afterwards.

I respect the hell out of her stance against Islam. Not so keen on her rather neo-con political tendencies.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

11. Comment #75801 by SilentMike on October 3, 2007 at 5:04 pm

I understand that most people here aren't big fans of US president Bush's foreign policy.

I hope you can still bring yourselves to acknowledge that there are worse things in this world to be than a neo-con. The neo-cons may be wrong but at least they make an attempt to base their policy descisions on something other than "Jesus/Muhammad told me so". Also, they deserve praise on the occasions in which they do right. Supporting Hirsi Ali is such an occasion.

Other Comments by SilentMike

12. Comment #75806 by Crazymalc on October 3, 2007 at 5:12 pm

Hirsi Ali = Much respect

Other Comments by Crazymalc

13. Comment #75810 by MarkSmith on October 3, 2007 at 5:49 pm

I had tears in my eyes at her talk at the AAI. Her answers to the questions posed were inspiring.

Other Comments by MarkSmith

14. Comment #75811 by Jack Rawlinson on October 3, 2007 at 5:59 pm

I hope you can still bring yourselves to acknowledge that there are worse things in this world to be than a neo-con.

Certainly. There must be at least a couple. :-)

And I cut Hirsi Ali some slack because of her background. I can see how tempting that particular extreme must have looked under the circumstances.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

15. Comment #75821 by notsobad on October 3, 2007 at 6:50 pm

She speaks against radical Muslims while working for radical Christians - neocons in the American Enterprise Institute.
...too bad these can't pay for her security while the Dutch have to.

Other Comments by notsobad

16. Comment #75859 by mmurray on October 3, 2007 at 10:31 pm

Certainly. There must be at least a couple. :-)

And I cut Hirsi Ali some slack because of her background. I can see how tempting that particular extreme must have looked under the circumstances.

And if I remember the book properly she got little support from the left in Holland at the beginning because she was seen as disruptive of the idea of multiculturalism which tends to be a left wing thing. I would also think that the fact that she had to fight for her freedom in such an individualistic fashion against social pressures to conform would lead her to sympathise with a right wing perspective of individual rights.

Michael

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17. Comment #75883 by Dan P on October 4, 2007 at 12:16 am

I have to agree with the Dutch government here, I was actually surprised that she still received state funded personal protection in a foreign country!
What is ironic is that the US government will not provide much, even in the face of threats, and the think tank she is working for is radically opposed to this kind of government "welfare", and apparently she is not a valueable enough employee for them to pay for it.

Other Comments by Dan P

18. Comment #75887 by Russell Blackford on October 4, 2007 at 12:47 am

I'd like to know how that figure was calculated. Six million dollars to cover six bodyguards? Those are awfully expensive bodyguards.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

19. Comment #75891 by xkcd on October 4, 2007 at 1:33 am

The neo-cons may be wrong but at least they make an attempt to base their policy descisions on something other than "Jesus/Muhammad told me so".

But they do pander to that community. Also, they're not so keen on basing their policies on reason and evidence either, given their distain for the 'reality based community'.

Other Comments by xkcd

20. Comment #75908 by SilentMike on October 4, 2007 at 3:33 am

But they do pander to that community. Also, they're not so keen on basing their policies on reason and evidence either, given their distain for the 'reality based community'.

Ever heard one of the Democratic candidates go on and on about faith? We're talking about america. EVERYONE indulges the religious.

The neo-cons thought invading Iraq would be a good idea. That didn't work out very well, and their not handling that successfully. People sometimes have problems with reality when it doesn't go their way.

Other Comments by SilentMike

21. Comment #75912 by VanYoungman on October 4, 2007 at 4:17 am

Christopher Hitchens followed Ms Ali's talk and began his talk by remarking there wasn't a person in this (crowded) room who wouldn't place themselves between an assasin and you, Ms Ali. I could sense a silent "amen" among the throng as they cheered. I certainly would be honored to stop the bullet. An absolutely remarkable brave woman who, unfortunately, must cover her back as long as she lives.

Other Comments by VanYoungman

22. Comment #75919 by rokort on October 4, 2007 at 4:38 am

Russel Blackford (19. Comment #75887)

I'd like to know how that figure was calculated. Six million dollars to cover six bodyguards? Those are awfully expensive bodyguards.

2 men for 8 hours in 3 shifts makes 6 men for 24 hours. 100 Euro's/Dollars an hour per man is 4800 Euro's/Dollars a day for 6 men. Times 365 is 1.752.000 Euro's/Dollars. That already get's you well on the way toward 6 million (though i have also read something that was closer to 3 instead of 6 million)

Other Comments by rokort

23. Comment #75933 by notsobad on October 4, 2007 at 5:38 am

The neo-cons thought invading Iraq would be a good idea. That didn't work out very well, and their not handling that successfully.

Don't be so naive. The war was an extreme success for them - Halliburton et al. are cashing billions, and Bush was re-elected and keeps passing laws - with help from the Congress - to protect the criminals.

Who cares what the public thinks or how it will affect normal people as long as money is rolling in and it's not possible to punish them.

Other Comments by notsobad

24. Comment #75937 by Roger Stanyard on October 4, 2007 at 5:54 am

There is something not quite right hear. Every citizen has the right to be protected by the state from being murdered.

Moreover, in a democratic world it is essential that politicians can act without the threat of being murdered for their democratic views, either whilst in office or after. Ms Ali is one of the world's most respected former politicians.

Roger Stanyard

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

25. Comment #75941 by cassdenata on October 4, 2007 at 6:01 am

I'm kind of sad to see her go for two reasons. Firstly, is my selfishness in wanting to keep her in the states and ironically, she is safer in the states and will need her bodyguards more when she returns. After reading her book it appears that her politics are not decidedly right-wing, but I definitely feared the influence of the AEI. It seems to me that her politics are truly left-wing. It used to be the liberals calling to care about mistreated women, the separation of church and state and an egalitarian society. I can say that I still believe in these things for the muslim world but that it is not to be done at the end of the barrel of a gun. If I was naive enough (like the neocons) to think that simple removal of Saddam would open up the floodgates to the Iraqi people's yearning for democracy, then I think that would be an intrinsically good thing. Plus, I think that the neocons intentions in Iraq were decidedly more sinister than setting up a democracy in the middle east and of course they lied about the reasons for the war. Unfortunately, the several American experiments with setting up governments whether they be dictatorships or "democracies" has been almost universally negative. One only needs to look to Latin America.

Other Comments by cassdenata

26. Comment #76011 by SilentMike on October 4, 2007 at 9:58 am

Don't be so naive. The war was an extreme success for them - Halliburton et al. are cashing billions, and Bush was re-elected and keeps passing laws - with help from the Congress - to protect the criminals.

Who cares what the public thinks or how it will affect normal people as long as money is rolling in and it's not possible to punish them

There's more to the neo-cons than that. Leaving greedy polititians aside, the neo-con agenda is about more than serving the oil barons (It's about serving the gun barons).

But seriously. There are serious people there with more than just greed on their mind. They really thought this would work well for americans and people all over the world. The current administration fucked it up (if it was ever going to wrok in the first place, which I don't know for sure). It seems that pretty much everything from "mission accomplished" on was downhill.

Regardless, I'd give the American Enterprise Institute a big thumbs up in this specific case for helping Hirsi Ali out in delivering her message to the american public.

Other Comments by SilentMike

27. Comment #76026 by Pantore on October 4, 2007 at 12:03 pm

LOL
Yep Ayaan Cyaankali is back in Netherlands and her nazi-AEI friends can't pay for her security?

Here is some more news, she doesn't need security.
It's all hyped up by the neo-con propoganda machine.
And now she can join her christian-fascist friends like Balkenende and Wilders in the fake war against terror which realy is a war against democracy.

And the people in Netherlands and around the world are sleeping...

Other Comments by Pantore

28. Comment #76171 by Monera Man on October 5, 2007 at 12:51 am

Obscured by Clouds:

It would be wise of you to generally avoid anybody associated
with the AEI, these guys *are* the kind of people Roger Waters
was ranting about in "The Bravery of Being out of Range".

Not the kind of company for a Pink Floyd fan to keep..

Other Comments by Monera Man

29. Comment #76174 by Dutch Patty on October 5, 2007 at 1:12 am

I, as a (non-muslim) citizen of the Netherlands can tell you that Hirsi Ali is an opportunist, she didn't do anything for the Muslim Women around here. All she did was bash the Islam in a very extreme way, and she knew how the Extreme Muslims would react. She knew that "Submission" would get a lot of publicity, especially because she choose Theo van Gogh as the director, Theo van Gogh called the profet Mohammed a Pig, so figure how the Muslim Community reacted...It cost Theo van Gogh his life....that's a very high price to pay, and Hirsi Ali is responsible for that.

I've seen her on many discussion programmes overhere and she always had a very arrogant degrading attitude and approach towards the people who joined the discussion. If she really wanted to reform the Islam or help the Muslim Women, she would've chose a different approach.
Besides that she didn't survive 5 wars in Somalia or a bad life, she moved to Kenia when she was very little and her parents didn't suffer poverty and were pretty liberal. Hirsi Ali tries to win sympathy of the people who don't know the real deal bout her background. So i advice you all to check that first.
I agree with our government that they won't pay for her security anymore. There has been 6 meetings in the past months with Hirsi Ali about her security so she definetly knew the financing would end. As a matter of fact, the Dutch government granted her 3 more months of security, because it would end July 1st, and she knew that.

Her security costs the Netherlands $ 3 million of taxpayers money a year. Why would the Dutch Government or people pay for a woman who made her life impossible herself? If she would've only been more tactfull(aka POLITICAL) and not so selfcentred she wouldn't have been in this position in the first place. There are more ways that lead to Rome....

@Pantore;
If you know ANYTHING about Dutch Politics you would never ever mention Balkenende and Wilders in one line.
1) Wilders is not a Christian, he is a racist
and not even in a Christian Party.
2) Balkenende is not a facist.
So please don't talk about things you don't have knowledge of.

Other Comments by Dutch Patty

30. Comment #76187 by irate_atheist on October 5, 2007 at 2:04 am

To lose one body guard is unfortunate, to lose several seems like carelessness.

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31. Comment #76197 by mmurray on October 5, 2007 at 3:02 am

2 men for 8 hours in 3 shifts makes 6 men for 24 hours. 100 Euro's/Dollars an hour per man is 4800 Euro's/Dollars a day for 6 men. Times 365 is 1.752.000 Euro's/Dollars. That already get's you well on the way toward 6 million (though i have also read something that was closer to 3 instead of 6 million)

Something still doesn't make sense to me here. So you employ 6 people for 8 hours each day every day of the year and pay them $6,000,000 -- that's $1,000,000 for working 8 hours a day every day of the year. Excellent pay.

I think the problem is your $100 an hour. For a standard working week that is $100 x 40 (hours per week) x 52 (weeks in the year) = $208,000 a year. That is a good salary from where I come from. Do security staff really get $100 an hour?

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

32. Comment #76205 by notsobad on October 5, 2007 at 3:49 am

Dutch Patty

Even though I made a few negative comments about Ali, I have to strongly disagree with some points in your post.

First, she is not responsible for anybody's death. The sick murderers are.
Second, no being tactful or 'political' in your speech may bring negative responses, but it should never be a reason for someone to threaten your life.

Other Comments by notsobad

33. Comment #76217 by rokort on October 5, 2007 at 5:39 am

@ mmurray (32. Comment #76197)

I totally agree 100 bucks per hour is a lot of money but i've read/heard in various newsmedia that she has 3 shifts of two security men each working 8 hours a day, 7 days a week. And again i read yesterday in a national newspaper the total sum of her security is more like 3 million dollars in total, not 6. On top of salary for security there's money spent on logistics when traveling and securing places where she goes.

I can't verify whether 100 dollars an hour is a lot of money for security staff. To me it is but i wouldn't know what's normal in that business.

Other Comments by rokort

34. Comment #76220 by Dutch Patty on October 5, 2007 at 5:48 am

@ notsobad

You have a point about the sick murderers being responsible. But you have to know the history about the Netherlands. Hirsi Ali (as all the right minded people overhere) KNEW she and Theo van Gogh would get in a dangerous situation because of "Submission". She already had security at that time, Theo van Gogh had not. Have you ever watched Submission? I'd like to know that. Cause the catholic and baptist church wouldn't agree on writing scriptures on naked bodies and broadcast it either.......

And of course there is such a thing as freedom of speech. But reality is that the Muslim Extremists consider her extreme(even in my eyes and i'm very liberal) opinion on the Koran as an insult to all what they stand for. And Hirsi Ali(as someone who "suffered" the "torture"of the Islam)dayum well knew that. There is nothing wrong with being a little humble and strategic to reach a goal. But being the selfcentred person as she is she only thinks about her wellbeing and "star status" with this as a result.

Other Comments by Dutch Patty

35. Comment #76238 by rokort on October 5, 2007 at 7:19 am

@ Dutch Patty

could you elaborate on the "being the selfcentered person as she is she only thinks about herself"? What's your evidence?

And could you then perhaps tell me how she should have addressed the stupidities in the Koran regarding the role and abuse of women?

I think we should applaud she dares to take a stance like she does/did. Muslims have the tendency to take EVERYTHING you say against the Koran as an insult and using the strategic of being humble, staying nice, or shoving issues like genital mutilation under the carpet a lot of countries, including the Netherlands, have helped create the problems we see now with 'integration' of Muslims.

Other Comments by rokort

36. Comment #76241 by Russell Blackford on October 5, 2007 at 7:33 am

She is entitled to make her statements without being threatened with death. I can't believe that anyone is arguing along the lines that she brought it on herself or that there was something wrong with her using naked bodies to express her point (yes, I have seen Submission). She had every right to make her statement powerfully and artistically, and the blame for violence lies squarely with those who would resort to violence.

Other Comments by Russell Blackford

37. Comment #76243 by Dutch Patty on October 5, 2007 at 7:49 am

@rokort

The evidence is that she didn't do anything to empower the oppressed, deprived Muslim women. Cause one doesn't empower the oppressed women by saying Mohammed was a child rapist and writing Koran scriptures on naked women(Submission). She should've funded organizations who would teach these women the true interpretation of the Koran as the emancipated, educated Muslim women all around the world do. Cause you might've forgotten that the intelligent Muslim Women don't hide their hair under a scarf and interpret the Koran in a different way then these oppressed women do.

If Hirsi Ali was as intelligent as some(unaware of her background)people think she is, she would've looked for ways to truly help these women. You have to realize that the majority of the Muslim women living in the Netherlands lived in the mountains in their native country and most of them are illiterate, so they only know the Koran by hearsay, what they've been teached. If she really wanted to empower these women and make them aware of some things she should've put her energy in education of these particular women, readinglessons for instance.

But that is typically Hirsi Ali, she is arrogant and doesn't look into the REAL problem, the ESSENCE of the problem, and that is education.
Hirsi Ali has been in the fortunate position that she could get education, because her family was liberal, but she enjoys the role of being the marter.
You should do some research on her background and get back at me after that.

Other Comments by Dutch Patty

38. Comment #76266 by rokort on October 5, 2007 at 9:25 am

Dutch Patty

I will read more on Ayaan.

I also know that many Muslim women in Holland are Berbers, illiterate, and flown in from Morocco (or Turkey) for a planned marriage with someone they never met - i've lived in a Muslim neighbourhood in Amsterdam for the past 5 years, so i know a little bit about the society and women Ayaan talks about.

What i don't understand though is how you think that teaching the 'true Koran' (what on earth is that?) will change the brutal and illogic oppression of Muslim women by men. I suppose - but please correct me if i'm wrong - you mean like many Catholics did with the Bible, give it a more humane and women-friendly interpretation.

Living in Holland gives you the opportunity to live an independent and prosperous life, and i see many Moroccan girls do just that, they take way more initiative toward this goal than many Moroccan men do. BUT, it's for the oppression BY MEN in their proximity (husband, brothers, family) with the excuse 'because the Koran says so' that still far too many women are not given the chances they deserve. And that's what Ayaan also tries to communicate: that the Koran how it's interpreted by men who (like to) control the life of women is evil. It's about submission. For this she should be lauded, to me it's a little bit too easy to say that she also should take care of all the victims of submission. We know education works, let other people deal with this.

Other Comments by rokort

39. Comment #76282 by Bonzai on October 5, 2007 at 10:40 am

If Hirsi Ali was as intelligent as some(unaware of her background)people think she is, she would've looked for ways to truly help these women. You have to realize that the majority of the Muslim women living in the Netherlands lived in the mountains in their native country and most of them are illiterate, so they only know the Koran by hearsay, what they've been teached.

Nobody knows what the "true Quran" means because scholars themselves can't agree on its interpretation.

But that brings up an interesting point. Should human dignity and women rights be reduced to Arabic reading comprehension exercises? What if the men clerics turn out to be right and that indeed according to the Quran women should submit to their men folks? Does it make it more acceptable then?

Other Comments by Bonzai

40. Comment #76283 by Aquambulus hirsutus on October 5, 2007 at 10:40 am

Apologies to all those worrying about Dutch body guards' salaries (incidentally, (up to) 115 Euro/$160 an hour). I misread this article (in Dutch) - the $6 million includes other costs.

If anyone wants to budget for insulting muslims on their next trip to the Netherlands, let me know and I'll translate the article.

Other Comments by Aquambulus hirsutus

41. Comment #76329 by Dinah on October 5, 2007 at 2:01 pm

Ayaan Hirsi Ali was genitally mutilated as a child. Apologists for Islam would say that FGM is not an Islamic practice. But thousands of women are genitally mutilated in Islamic states in order to control them, to ensure they are virgins before marriage, and to deny them any sexual pleasure. FGM leads to a lifetime of suffering with a woman literally having to be cut open before first intercourse can take place and leads to complications like uncontrollable bleeding, infections, protracted labour, incontinence and, not infrequently, death. Only when I see Muslims protesting on the streets and demanding that this practice be banned wherever it takes place will I have any kind of respect for practising Muslims. I suspect I will have to wait a long time. I have the greatest respect for Ayaan Hirsi Ali who has had the courage to speak out about the oppression of women in Islam and has defied death threats from Islamo-Fascist thugs. Would there were more like her.

Other Comments by Dinah

42. Comment #76335 by nattyadams on October 5, 2007 at 2:32 pm

Hello everybody,

I started the petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/hirsiali) to ask the U.S. Government to bear the responsibility of keeping Ms. Ali safe. I encourage any of you who believe in defending a human being's right to freedom of speech against religious intimidation to sign it. Ms. Ali represents individual liberty, courage, and conscience and she deserves to be protected against fanatacism by a country which was founded on those principles.

Thank you,
Nathaniel Adams

P.S. As regards the utterly bogus and stupid claim that she's done nothing to help Muslim women, you're just plain wrong. Simply by speaking out and being a living example, she's provided inspiration to many women looking to escape religious oppression. In addition, she had tried to pass several bills through Dutch parliament (including one regarding female genital mutilation) which have been blocked by other parties on the grounds that they are culturally insensitive.

Other Comments by nattyadams

43. Comment #76363 by nattyadams on October 5, 2007 at 3:49 pm

One more thing... Ms. Ali's security team costs less than a missile and she's far more likely to change people's hearts and minds.

Other Comments by nattyadams

44. Comment #76400 by mmurray on October 5, 2007 at 5:50 pm

So if 60,000 of us commit $100 a year ...

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

45. Comment #76403 by nattyadams on October 5, 2007 at 6:06 pm

I thought we had established that it wasn't $6 million at this point. And even if it was that much, still less than a missle. And can one put a price on freedom of speech? I don't think so. $100 bucks a year to protect the life of a wonderful human being doesn't seem that high a price to pay...

Other Comments by nattyadams

46. Comment #76418 by Aragon on October 5, 2007 at 7:14 pm

I agree. We should protect lives of courageous individuals like Ms. Ali at all cost. Her contribution to Reason is invaluable.

Other Comments by Aragon

47. Comment #76433 by Dutch Patty on October 5, 2007 at 9:00 pm

In addition, she had tried to pass several bills through Dutch parliament (including one regarding female genital mutilation) which have been blocked by other parties on the grounds that they are culturally insensitive.

I think you need to read more on this before you post a comment like this. Female genital mutilation is considered a crime in the Netherlands before anyone ever heard of Hirsi Ali. Parents can even go to jail here if they have their daughters mutilated in their native country, let's make that clear.

The bill that has been blocked by the other parties is about circumcision (for boys/men that is). We all know that circumcision is besides from religious thoughts a hygienic thing. The Dutch government didn't want to go that far, you think the US or any government in the world would? Besides that she never tried to pass any other bill.

When Hirsi Ali was seated in the parliament, she only showed up 1/3 of the time she was suppose to be there. SHe was busy traveling along the country to promote/selling her book and not busy with what she was suppose to do and what she was payed for; defending the rights of the ones she claims to defend.

Besides that Hirsi Ali has not been genitally mutilated, she has not been forced to an arranged marriage (her ex-husband gave her a divorce in a sec) and she lied about her background to get her asylum here in The Netherlands. She claimed she went through 5 wars in Somalia, while she was living in Kenia from age 10-22 in a pretty luxury way. She has admitted that and that's the reason why she went to the States, she has been exposed. That was after a documentary on national tv was shown where the producers went to visit and talk to her family and people who knew her all her life.

So no...the Dutch government doesn't have to pay for a woman who's life and status is build on lies.
Y'all getting played by this woman, as y'all should read and investigate more about this woman before making a fool of yourself. She did it to the Netherlands, leanr from that.
Our prime minister ain't happy at all that she is back in the Netherlands right now to seek publicity while all she claims to stand for is based on lies. Don't get me wrong; i admire ALL women and men who are outthere to help the oppressed.
But she is selfish and just loves the attention, cause all she does is making harsh comments, no solutions, she couldn't care less about these women, all she cares about is Ayaan Hirsi Ali(which isn't her real name, her real name is Ayaan Hirsi Magan, she lied about that too)
I've seen that in so many debates and discussion programmes overhere, talking to the women she claims to defend in a very, very arrogant way.

But time will tell......maybe it takes a while before the people in the US will realize what kind of woman she is.
Considering the fact that George W is your president it might take a while......

Other Comments by Dutch Patty

48. Comment #76453 by Dutch Patty on October 5, 2007 at 11:34 pm

Watch this;

http://zembla.vara.nl/Dossiers.1963.0.html

After this documentary was broadcasted her political party took their hands off of her, because of the contradiction in the stories they told them.

Other Comments by Dutch Patty

49. Comment #76458 by mmurray on October 6, 2007 at 12:02 am

Besides that Hirsi Ali has not been genitally mutilated,

So you say she is lying in her book ?

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

50. Comment #76478 by Dutch Patty on October 6, 2007 at 1:18 am

So you say she is lying in her book ?

She was not raised in an orthodox Muslim way. Her parents divorced when she was 12 years old, we are talking 26 years ago, picture that in a muslim marriage.....
You can believe whatever you want but i know this woman has been lying about a lot of things, and this is one of them.

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