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Ayaan Hirsi Ali: abandoned to fanatics
by Sam Harris and Salman Rushdie
Reposted from:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-harris9oct09,0,3734484.story?coll=la-opinion-center
The outspoken former Dutch legislator deserves the protection her country promised before she ran for parliament.
As you read this, Ayaan Hirsi Ali sits in a safe house with armed men guarding her door. She is one of the most poised, intelligent and compassionate advocates of freedom of speech and conscience alive today, and for this she is despised in Muslim communities throughout the world. The details of her story bear repeating, as they illustrate how poorly equipped we are to deal with the threat of Muslim extremism in the West.
Hirsi Ali first fled to the Netherlands as a refugee from Somalia in 1992 after declining to submit to a forced marriage to a man she did not know. Once there, in hiding from her family, she began working as a cleaning lady. But this cleaning lady spoke Somali, Arabic, Amharic, Swahili, English and was quickly learning Dutch, so she soon found work as a translator for other Somali refugees, many of whom, like herself, were casualties of Islam. These women had been abused, mutilated, denied medical care and proper educations and forced into lives of sexual subjection and compulsory childbearing.
After attending the University of Leiden, Hirsi Ali began speaking publicly about the repression of women under Islam, and shortly thereafter she started receiving death threats from local Muslims. Her security situation eventually became so dire that she moved to the U.S. in 2002. However, she was soon contacted by Gerrit Zalm, then deputy prime minister of the Netherlands, who urged her to run for parliament. When Hirsi Ali voiced her security concerns, Zalm assured her that she would be given diplomatic protection wherever and whenever she needed it. She returned to the Netherlands with this assurance, won a seat in parliament and became a tireless advocate for women, for civil society and for reason.
The rest of her story is well known. In 2004, Hirsi Ali collaborated with Theo van Gogh on the film "Submission," which examined the link between Islamic law and the suffering of millions of women under Islam. The reaction from the Muslim community was nothing short of psychopathic, and it confirmed the necessity of Hirsi Ali's work and the reasonableness of her fears. Van Gogh, having declined bodyguards of his own, was gunned down and nearly decapitated on an Amsterdam street, and a letter threatening Hirsi Ali was staked to his chest with a butcher knife.
Hirsi Ali was immediately forced into hiding and moved from safe house to safe house, sometimes more than once a day, for months. Eventually, her security concerns drove her from the Netherlands altogether. She returned to the U.S., and the Dutch government has been paying for her protection here -- that is, until it suddenly announced last week that it would no longer protect her outside the Netherlands, thereby advertising her vulnerability to the world.
Hirsi Ali may be the first refugee from Western Europe since the Holocaust. As such, she is a unique and indispensable witness to both the strength and weakness of the West: to the splendor of open society and to the boundless energy of its antagonists. She knows the challenges we face in our struggle to contain the misogyny and religious fanaticism of the Muslim world, and she lives with the consequences of our failure each day. There is no one in a better position to remind us that tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.
Having recapitulated the Enlightenment for herself in a few short years, Hirsi Ali has surveyed every inch of the path leading out of the moral and intellectual wasteland that is traditional Islam. She has written two luminous books describing her journey, the most recent of which, "Infidel," has been an international bestseller for months. It is difficult to exaggerate her courage. As Christopher Caldwell wrote in the New York Times, "Voltaire did not risk, with his every utterance, making a billion enemies who recognized his face and could, via the Internet, share information instantaneously with people who aspired to assassinate him."
The Dutch Parliament will be debating Hirsi Ali's case this week. As it stands, the government's decision to protect her only within the borders of the Netherlands is genuinely perverse. While the Dutch have complained about the cost of protecting Hirsi Ali in the United States, it is actually far more expensive for them to protect her in the Netherlands, as the risk to her is greatest there.
There is also the matter of broken promises: Hirsi Ali was persuaded to run for parliament and to become the world's most visible and imperiled spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women, on the understanding that she would be provided security for as long as she needed it. Zalm, in his capacity as both the deputy prime minister and the minister of finance, promised her such security without qualification. Most shamefully, Jan Peter Balkenende, the Dutch prime minister, has recommended that Hirsi Ali simply quit the Netherlands and has refused to grant her even a week's protection outside the country, during which she might raise funds to hire security of her own. Is this a craven attempt to placate local Muslim fanatics? A warning to other Dutch dissidents not to stir up trouble by speaking too frankly about Islam? Or just pure thoughtlessness?
The Dutch government should recognize a scandal in the making and rediscover its obligation to provide Hirsi Ali with the protection she was promised.
There is not a person alive more deserving of the freedoms of speech and conscience we take for granted in the West, nor is there anyone making a more courageous effort to defend them.
Sam Harris is the author of "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation." Salman Rushdie is a novelist whose works include "Midnight's Children," which won the Booker Prize, and "The Satanic Verses."
Also See: "What happens to Ayaan matters to us all" by David Frum, National Post
A petition has been started here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/hirsiali (thanks nattyadams)
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-harris9oct09,0,3734484.story?coll=la-opinion-center
The outspoken former Dutch legislator deserves the protection her country promised before she ran for parliament.
As you read this, Ayaan Hirsi Ali sits in a safe house with armed men guarding her door. She is one of the most poised, intelligent and compassionate advocates of freedom of speech and conscience alive today, and for this she is despised in Muslim communities throughout the world. The details of her story bear repeating, as they illustrate how poorly equipped we are to deal with the threat of Muslim extremism in the West.
Hirsi Ali first fled to the Netherlands as a refugee from Somalia in 1992 after declining to submit to a forced marriage to a man she did not know. Once there, in hiding from her family, she began working as a cleaning lady. But this cleaning lady spoke Somali, Arabic, Amharic, Swahili, English and was quickly learning Dutch, so she soon found work as a translator for other Somali refugees, many of whom, like herself, were casualties of Islam. These women had been abused, mutilated, denied medical care and proper educations and forced into lives of sexual subjection and compulsory childbearing.
After attending the University of Leiden, Hirsi Ali began speaking publicly about the repression of women under Islam, and shortly thereafter she started receiving death threats from local Muslims. Her security situation eventually became so dire that she moved to the U.S. in 2002. However, she was soon contacted by Gerrit Zalm, then deputy prime minister of the Netherlands, who urged her to run for parliament. When Hirsi Ali voiced her security concerns, Zalm assured her that she would be given diplomatic protection wherever and whenever she needed it. She returned to the Netherlands with this assurance, won a seat in parliament and became a tireless advocate for women, for civil society and for reason.
The rest of her story is well known. In 2004, Hirsi Ali collaborated with Theo van Gogh on the film "Submission," which examined the link between Islamic law and the suffering of millions of women under Islam. The reaction from the Muslim community was nothing short of psychopathic, and it confirmed the necessity of Hirsi Ali's work and the reasonableness of her fears. Van Gogh, having declined bodyguards of his own, was gunned down and nearly decapitated on an Amsterdam street, and a letter threatening Hirsi Ali was staked to his chest with a butcher knife.
Hirsi Ali was immediately forced into hiding and moved from safe house to safe house, sometimes more than once a day, for months. Eventually, her security concerns drove her from the Netherlands altogether. She returned to the U.S., and the Dutch government has been paying for her protection here -- that is, until it suddenly announced last week that it would no longer protect her outside the Netherlands, thereby advertising her vulnerability to the world.
Hirsi Ali may be the first refugee from Western Europe since the Holocaust. As such, she is a unique and indispensable witness to both the strength and weakness of the West: to the splendor of open society and to the boundless energy of its antagonists. She knows the challenges we face in our struggle to contain the misogyny and religious fanaticism of the Muslim world, and she lives with the consequences of our failure each day. There is no one in a better position to remind us that tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.
Having recapitulated the Enlightenment for herself in a few short years, Hirsi Ali has surveyed every inch of the path leading out of the moral and intellectual wasteland that is traditional Islam. She has written two luminous books describing her journey, the most recent of which, "Infidel," has been an international bestseller for months. It is difficult to exaggerate her courage. As Christopher Caldwell wrote in the New York Times, "Voltaire did not risk, with his every utterance, making a billion enemies who recognized his face and could, via the Internet, share information instantaneously with people who aspired to assassinate him."
The Dutch Parliament will be debating Hirsi Ali's case this week. As it stands, the government's decision to protect her only within the borders of the Netherlands is genuinely perverse. While the Dutch have complained about the cost of protecting Hirsi Ali in the United States, it is actually far more expensive for them to protect her in the Netherlands, as the risk to her is greatest there.
There is also the matter of broken promises: Hirsi Ali was persuaded to run for parliament and to become the world's most visible and imperiled spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women, on the understanding that she would be provided security for as long as she needed it. Zalm, in his capacity as both the deputy prime minister and the minister of finance, promised her such security without qualification. Most shamefully, Jan Peter Balkenende, the Dutch prime minister, has recommended that Hirsi Ali simply quit the Netherlands and has refused to grant her even a week's protection outside the country, during which she might raise funds to hire security of her own. Is this a craven attempt to placate local Muslim fanatics? A warning to other Dutch dissidents not to stir up trouble by speaking too frankly about Islam? Or just pure thoughtlessness?
The Dutch government should recognize a scandal in the making and rediscover its obligation to provide Hirsi Ali with the protection she was promised.
There is not a person alive more deserving of the freedoms of speech and conscience we take for granted in the West, nor is there anyone making a more courageous effort to defend them.
Sam Harris is the author of "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation." Salman Rushdie is a novelist whose works include "Midnight's Children," which won the Booker Prize, and "The Satanic Verses."
Also See: "What happens to Ayaan matters to us all" by David Frum, National Post
A petition has been started here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/hirsiali (thanks nattyadams)
Comments 1 - 50 of 72 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #77455 by Big T on October 9, 2007 at 11:04 am
For the government of The Netherlands to fail to uphold it's promise to provide security for Ms. Ali is contemptible. Something has to be done about this outrage. I would personally be willing to donate some money from my paycheck every two weeks to help hire security for her. People need to complain to the Dutch ambassador to their countries. She must not be intimidated into silence or murdered.Other Comments by Big T
3. Comment #77456 by Ophelia Benson on October 9, 2007 at 11:06 am
Infidel is a brilliant book. (I reviewed it for a future Free Inquiry.)This situation is an outrage.
Other Comments by Ophelia Benson
4. Comment #77458 by Janus on October 9, 2007 at 11:07 am
Maybe it is time we start to chip in somehow as well?
Agreed. I'm not that rich but I'd be willing to donate.
Other Comments by Janus
5. Comment #77464 by nattyadams on October 9, 2007 at 11:29 am
Yet another reminder, the petition is right here:http://www.petitiononline.com/hirsiali
Other Comments by nattyadams
6. Comment #77485 by Ivan The Not So Bad on October 9, 2007 at 12:11 pm
When I signed this petition a few days ago (after it was first featured on this site) mine was only the 16th signature. I hope we can do better than that this time.
Other Comments by Ivan The Not So Bad
7. Comment #77486 by AnthSynthasome on October 9, 2007 at 12:11 pm
For those interested, Anne Applebaum authored this article about Hirsi Ali, which, incidentally, accompanied Hitch's article on Slate.com http://www.slate.com/id/2175447/nav/tap1/
Other Comments by AnthSynthasome
8. Comment #77487 by bitbutter on October 9, 2007 at 12:15 pm
I signed the petition and clicked the 'i like it!' button on my stumbleupon toolbar. If you're interested in promoting the petition (and other good causes) it's well worth taking a couple of minutes to sign up to stumbleupon. http://www.stumbleupon.com/Stumbleupon first came to my attention when it drove huge amounts of traffic to the site asktheatheists.com, it works very well.
Other Comments by bitbutter
9. Comment #77499 by philos on October 9, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Why sign the petition?She's "ok" with their decision to pull her protection whilst OUTSIDE of their country.
Ayaan needs to learn to open up her wallet & pull her own weight, esp. being a millionaire author - common tax paying people have better ways to spend government money, like giving it to these fine people for research:
http://www.mrs.umn.edu/academic/science/Biol_faculty_staff.html
Other Comments by philos
10. Comment #77503 by bartvdo on October 9, 2007 at 12:50 pm
For some more information on this please review the comments on http://richarddawkins.net/article,1725,The-Price-of-Freedom,Christopher-Hitchens-SlateThe articles by Harris and Hitchens are a bit one sided. Some of us have tried to show the other side of the discussion.
Note that no-one in the netherlands thinks she shouldn't be protected. The only discussion is on whether the Dutch goverment should pay for the protection of someone, who is intend on being a citizen of another country. Hirshi Ali actually agrees with the majority of the parlement that She should pay for her protection in the US.
Other Comments by bartvdo
11. Comment #77509 by AdrianT on October 9, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Well, her liberal (VVD, not all that liberal) party colleague iron lady Rita Verdonk is ultimately responsible for Hirsi Ali's decision to leave the Netherlands, with all that full about some lies she told when she first came to the country. A disgrace. Ironically Verdonk was forced out of the parliamentary fraction herself recently....It looks highly likely the government will indeed stop with the security according to the latest news this evening
Other Comments by AdrianT
12. Comment #77511 by TinyRobot on October 9, 2007 at 1:19 pm
I think she's great and all that i really do but i can't see what is so 'contemptible' about the dutch government wanting to pull her security when she's living outside their jurisdiction (yet still being okay with it in the Netherlands of course). I know Rushdie gets British security but he does live full time in the UK as far as i know. And if as others say she's okay with the decision then there's no real argument. She should try get protection from some other sources (US government or private). That said i'll sign the petition anyway.Anyway, you can probably tell i've no real contribution to make here i just wanted to plug my blog: http://noninsaneautomaton.blogspot.com/
Later.
Other Comments by TinyRobot
13. Comment #77516 by annabanana on October 9, 2007 at 1:24 pm
It is irrelevant whether or not she wants to pay for her own protection. If anyone in the Netherlands assured her that she would be protected there or otherwise that promise should be carried out. It is also irrelevant whether or not she has enough money to pay for her own protection. It would be a statement that we in the U.S. or those in the Netherlands are not Muslim extremist apologists and won't stand for violence against someone who is helping further society. Other Comments by annabanana
14. Comment #77525 by notsobad on October 9, 2007 at 2:15 pm
I still need an explanation why she, while protesting against Muslim extremists, worked for Christian extremists, American Enterprise Institute? Other Comments by notsobad
15. Comment #77529 by denoir on October 9, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Bah. If she was a resident of the Netherlands then sure, she should have protection. But she isn't and that responsibility should fall on the US. It's a police matter and as far as I know generally if you have a problem you go to the local police and not to the police in another country.
Other Comments by denoir
16. Comment #77530 by peteal on October 9, 2007 at 2:24 pm
I was happy to sign the petition, but shouldn't it be directed at the Dutch Government? Or am I missing something?Other Comments by peteal
17. Comment #77537 by SMART on October 9, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Costs for her protection should be shared between the US and Dutch governments.. and both governments should look on it as a priviledge to protect this amazing woman.Other Comments by SMART
18. Comment #77538 by maton100 on October 9, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Let her pack heat and provide her with Al Gore's bodyguards. That should hold off Muhammad for a few months until they can get this figured out. Other Comments by maton100
19. Comment #77540 by BeyondBelief on October 9, 2007 at 3:12 pm
I wonder who wrote this line, Sam or Salman? "There is no one in a better position to remind us that tolerance of intolerance is cowardice."
Crystal clear. I fear this issue is not being raised to general public consciousness, or if it is, it is being marginalized as a "well, she brought it upon herself... you've got to be willing to pay for your "free" speech" issue.
Atheist, PLEASE!!! ;-) We must understand that this case is the archetypal demonstration of the need for separation of church and state, of the need to vehemently protest any body (governmental or otherwise) that holds murder to be appropriate punishment for "blasphemy." I don't know that this is the archetypal case for arguing that The State owes specific individuals protection.
I also fear that this is the archetypal proof of Sam Harris' point that moderates are the water bearers of the extremists. I can just hear them, "Well, she DID insult their religion, and I certainly don't like it when people insult MY religion, so I can't really stand up for her."
Dear Religiots, can't you separate for a moment the desire to protect your own house of cards from examination, from the desperate need to call out Muslim extremism and blasphemy punishments as behavior abhorrent to civil society!!!
Must Ayaan be a martyr for "Reason" before the general public pays attention? I fear this is an all too real possible outcome, because let's face it... how many people can we SPECIFICALLY protect against an evil? We don't pay for individualized police officers for every person, just because there are murderers out there in the world and we want to stop murder.
So Ayaan is a "target of special merit"... agreed. Who should pay for her security?
Would it be gauche of Ayaan to put up a website for donations to her own security, to allow her to keep speaking eloquently, and allow those who TRULY believe in the value of free speech to put their money where their mouth is?
This isn't ultimately about Ayaan: It is about how the world stands in solidarity with her!!!
It's about a fundamental Constitutional right... and it is imperative that our representatives (and anyone else we can write to) hears how SEVERELY important this issue is. Start writing!! Sign the petitions. Make some noise. Horton needs to hear the Who's that value free speech and just, civil society over theocricide!
I remember a story wherein a plan was hatched to go after all Jewish houses during Hannukah. The perpetrators would attack any home with a Menorah in the window. The people of the neighborhood, upon hearing of the plan, ALL put Menorah's in their window in solidarity. (A variation revolves around the requirement of wearing a star of David to single out the Jewish, and the neighbors all donned the starts in solidarity).
So... what can we do to stand in solidarity with Ayaan! We obviously can't all dress up as tall, articulate, beautiful Somali women... :-)
Make some noise!!
Other Comments by BeyondBelief
20. Comment #77544 by IPV4 on October 9, 2007 at 3:30 pm
I still need an explanation why she, while protesting against Muslim extremists, worked for Christian extremists, American Enterprise Institute?
Yes, I am quite curious about this myself.
Other Comments by IPV4
21. Comment #77552 by Steve Wrathall on October 9, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Suggestions that AHA should have to pay for her own protection are contemptible. Protecting people's rights is the most fundamental duty of government, especially as they have claimed a monopoly on the use of force, and deprive us of the right to protect ourselves.Similarly pathetic is the attempt to slur her through labelling her employer, AEI, "Christian fundamentalist". They are a think-tank devoted to excellence in public policy. Heavily supported by atheist Bill Gates' Microsoft.
But even if they do include XXian fundis, when was the last time such people mutilated genitals, stoned adulterers, or flew planes into buildings?
As a rationalist I do not subscribe to the asinine doctrine of cultural relativism, where all religion ase equally bad, and sometimes we have to make common cause with the less vile to combat the truly putrid.
Other Comments by Steve Wrathall
22. Comment #77553 by Deep13 on October 9, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Comment #77525 by notsobad on October 9, 2007 at 2:15 pm"I still need an explanation why she, while protesting against Muslim extremists, worked for Christian extremists, American Enterprise Institute?"
Um, yeah. Why was that?
Other Comments by Deep13
23. Comment #77554 by Deep13 on October 9, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Comment #77538 by maton100 on October 9, 2007 at 3:07 pm"Let her pack heat and provide her with Al Gore's bodyguards. That should hold off Muhammad for a few months until they can get this figured out."
Why Al Gore?? As a former vice president, the U.S. Secret Service keeps an eye on him just like they do for George Bush, Sr., Dan Quayle, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.
If Muhammad or anyone else had it out for me, I would certainly be "packing heat," especially since that is legal around here anyway.
Other Comments by Deep13
24. Comment #77557 by Deep13 on October 9, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Comment #77552 by Steve Wrathall on October 9, 2007 at 4:22 pm"Suggestions that AHA should have to pay for her own protection are contemptible. Protecting people's rights is the most fundamental duty of government, especially as they have claimed a monopoly on the use of force, and deprive us of the right to protect ourselves."
Usually, that protection does not extend to other countries unless the person in question is on a diplomatic mission. As a member of parliament, that might be true. Anyway, the police of the USA should protect her, but they are not going to neglect their regular duties to protect a celebrity.
In this U.S. state as in many, the government does not have a monopoly on force. Record numbers of citizens have been issued concealed-carry permits and sales of handguns are brisk.
"Similarly pathetic is the attempt to slur her through labelling her employer, AEI, 'Christian fundamentalist'. They are a think-tank devoted to excellence in public policy. Heavily supported by atheist Bill Gates' Microsoft."
I don't know what their religious leanings are, but I do know they are right-wing corporate hacks. Excellence in public policy? Maybe that's what their brochure says. They are lobbyists who oppose the environment, worker safety, unions, education, tax equity and any accountability by corporate interests. Gates is a case in point. There was a major anti-trust prosecution brought against Microsoft in the 1990s by the Clinton administration. After the turn of the century, Gates used his close ties (read: financial support) of the Bush administration essentially to dismiss the case.
Frankly, AHA's association with them is cause for concern. My guess is that she fits into an agenda of opening more markets in Muslim states. (Not that that by itself is necessarily a bad thing.)
Other Comments by Deep13
25. Comment #77563 by BAEOZ on October 9, 2007 at 5:15 pm
I still need an explanation why she, while protesting against Muslim extremists, worked for Christian extremists, American Enterprise Institute?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend perhaps? Seriously, political motives require people to get down amongst the less than perfect to get out a worthwhile message.
Other Comments by BAEOZ
26. Comment #77564 by Russell Blackford on October 9, 2007 at 5:17 pm
What BAEOZ said.Besides, what "nicer" think tank was offering to fund her work?
Other Comments by Russell Blackford
27. Comment #77570 by IPV4 on October 9, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Thanks DEEP13 for educating those that did not know what the american enterpirise group stood for. And I aslo happen to agree with BAEOZ who says that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".Other Comments by IPV4
28. Comment #77582 by notsobad on October 9, 2007 at 7:01 pm
American Enterprise Institute includes such people as Paul Wolfowitz (visiting scholar) and Lynne Cheney, Dick Cheney's wife. Other Comments by notsobad
29. Comment #77593 by IPV4 on October 9, 2007 at 7:33 pm
American Enterprise Institute includes such people as Paul Wolfowitz (visiting scholar) and Lynne Cheney, Dick Cheney's wife.
Yes, those three are intellectual giants.LOl.
Other Comments by IPV4
30. Comment #77613 by mmurray on October 9, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Comment #77525 by notsobad on October 9, 2007 at 2:15 pm
"I still need an explanation why she, while protesting against Muslim extremists, worked for Christian extremists, American Enterprise Institute?"
As well as the `any port in a storm' or perhaps `only port in a storm' theory mentioned above do we have any reason to believe she is not right wing in some or all of her thinking ? I can see the struggle she had to make to obtain individual freedom against the group-think of Islam leaving her more attracted to notions of individual liberty than to those of group solidarity. But I'm just guessing.
Personally I never understood what part of `I don't believe in gods' implies you are left of centre in your politics which seems to be a common assumption made around here.
Michael
Other Comments by mmurray
31. Comment #77614 by Eric Blair on October 9, 2007 at 9:52 pm
The American Enterprise Institute hardly consists of "Christian extremists." It is unabashedly rightwing but that's not the same thing. It does include some (moderate) religious intellectuals -- Jewish and Christian -- but religion is not a major theme of its research or publications.No doubt the AEI's neocons, Jews and Christians share similar feelings about Islam as Hirsi Ali, which made it a reasonable choice for her. And she owes nothing to the liberal-left, even if some feel she belongs there.
EB
Other Comments by Eric Blair
32. Comment #77626 by Ashley1319 on October 9, 2007 at 11:24 pm
First, Hirsi Ali's political leanings might have had something to do with the AHI....not religious ideals. Also, does it really matter? I doubt many others would fund her. Another thing; all this nonsense about how the U.S. shouldn't fund her bodyguards...if it was the Pope who wanted to live here(let's just assume he was too poor for bodyguards HA),countries would be lining up and pockets would be emptied to pay for his protection. She certainly deserves every bit of help to keep her alive, and in a country that isn't so dangerous for her.Other Comments by Ashley1319
33. Comment #77630 by steevo on October 9, 2007 at 11:48 pm
If the representatives of a western democracy are not willing to take on board the burden of protecting one of the most couragous advocates of freedom in the face of barbarism then it is our duty to do all we can. I, personally, would be honoured to make a donation towards the protection of this remarkable woman. Something concrete has to be done before she is left exposed to the wolves.Other Comments by steevo
34. Comment #77646 by tijnvanlier on October 10, 2007 at 1:42 am
Hi there, i haven't read all the reactions on this subject, but I think it's time to set things straight. I'm from holland and have closely followed the debate on Ms. Hirsi Ali's protection. Sam Harris made a huge mistake in his article; the dutch government made no false promiss whatsoever on the protectionfunds for ms. Hirsi Ali. They said that they would fund her protection for a year so that she may have the time to raise funds for her protection in the US. This agreement was prolongued for two times, again no promiss was made for infinite protectionfunds. The dutch government has been fair and generous and kept its promiss. It's time that new funds are raised in the US for her protection.Other Comments by tijnvanlier
35. Comment #77654 by rokort on October 10, 2007 at 2:21 am
Like bartvo (10. Comment #77503) mentions:it is imperative, before judging, to get to know the other side of the story.
Though i understand where they are coming from and i agree with them that an advocate of free speech should be protected when necessary, i'm a bit disappointed by Sam Harris and Salman Rushdie, and Christopher Hitchens in his Slate article.
Their arguments are not based on the proper information and their reasoning seems stifled by emotion. How much of this is their own fault though? Is this an example of how journalism works when a message has to cross an ocean or of not taking enough time to think things through before speaking out?
If it were up to me Holland would pay for her indefinitely and i'm ashamed our Government doesn't do this, that they are not willing to stand up for freedom of speech here – but caving in to extremist so to speak. On the other hand, she has a greencard now, wants to live in the US, so why wouldn't they pay for her then?
Other Comments by rokort
36. Comment #77656 by Nighttripper on October 10, 2007 at 2:45 am
I will post the same comment here as in the other article by Hitchens. For this is a misinformed and incomplete representation of the whole situation.
From the Sam Harris, Salman Rushdie article:
"She returned to the U.S., and the Dutch government has been paying for her protection here -- that is, until it suddenly announced last week that it would no longer protect her outside the Netherlands, thereby advertising her vulnerability to the world".
I am surprised by their apparent believe that SUDDENLY, out of the blue, the government decided she was not going to be protected anymore. And adding in an accusing way that this puts her in direct danger of being murdered. As if the dutch prime minister woke up one morning and thought "Hey, let's take away Hirshi Ali's protection today, that'd be a hoot...". As if the dutch government is going to decide next week to not pay for the protection anymore, escort her out of the building and into the hands of armed muslim militants... righto.
The article says she would get "protection without qualification", which leaves open the question if this was considered to mean outside of The Netherlands too, since no one could have forseen her going to the US before she became a politician.
Every country is responsible for the protection of the people living in, and visiting their country. Why should the dutch government pay for her protection while the country where she is living nowadays isn't even prepared to contribute a penny. Why is the dutch government such a target in this discussion when the obvious candidate for paying for her protection should be the US or the AEI. As even Ayaan Hirshi Ali herself has stated she thinks it is reasonable for the dutch government to not want to pay for her protection in the US.
From the Sam Harris, Salman Rushdie article:
Jan Peter Balkenende, the Dutch prime minister, has recommended that Hirsi Ali simply quit the Netherlands and has refused to grant her even a week's protection outside the country, during which she might raise funds to hire security of her own.
Read that again...the statement they are making (or at least implying) is that the dutch prime minister has told Hirshi Ali to leave the country now, without any protection. Now that is some serious factbending.
The simple fact is that there were problems with acquiring a greencard with which she could get on with the fundraising for her protection in the US. Because of these problems, her protection has been extended twice. Now, the Dutch government has asked her to come back to the Netherlands, in anticipation of her receiving a greencard, so that it wouldn't have to extend her protectioncontract with a third period (since the US didn't want Dutch policemen on their soil, the Dutch government has been forced to hire a private company).
Now think about it... Why would the dutch government suddenly decide to leave her unprotected for a week when it has been paying for her protection for over a year.
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End of the story is: the Dutch parliament has debated the question and the general consensus seems to be that they do not intend to vote for continuing paying for the protection of Hirshi Ali while she resides in the US (she will still be protected on dutch soil). There will probably be a transitionperiod. Ayaan Hirshi Ali has gotten her greencard en flew back to the US in the meantime.
There were some voices in the parliament for extending the protection period one last time. Yesterday though, Ayaan Hirsi Ali sent the highly classified documents containing all the details of her protection program in the Netherlands and the US to the members of parliament and the media. Why she did that is beyond me because it only hurt her cause. Those parties that were somewhat inclined to extend another period of protection were appalled by this action and felt like their hands were being forced.
Hitchens was in the newsreport too by the way, saying that he has found some wealthy people ready to pay for her protection.
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37. Comment #77665 by Nick Good on October 10, 2007 at 4:02 am
American Enterprise Institute includes such people as Paul Wolfowitz (visiting scholar)So a free enterprise, economic forum, have the former head of the World Bank on board...shock horror!
Some of us think that reflects well on the AEI, some of us, heaven forbid, think rather well of Paul Wolfowitz...Golly gosh, there are people who are atheists who have differing views on economics and politics... not all atheists are Lefties....surprise, surprise!
If you don't like Hirsi Ali's politics that's fine. She is however a self declared atheist, an apostate and outspoken critique of Islam. She is at very real risk of attack from Koranic literalist Muslims. She should be protected; the Dutch government's stance on this has been nothing less than disgraceful.
All power to the AEI for sponsoring Hirsi Ali and providing her with a platform.
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38. Comment #77666 by Nighttripper on October 10, 2007 at 4:23 am
Tell me what is more disgraceful; the country from which she came not wanting to pay for her protection on foreign soil, or the country where she is living nowadays not wanting to pay for her protection on their own soil?Still people seem to believe that the dutch government just decided to stop protecting here
out of the blue. As said before, her protection had been extended twice to allow her to set up her own protection. She has also never been without protection as the article is implying.
Hirsi Ali herself has stated that it is not reasonable for the dutch government having to pay for her protection on foreign soil. Rushdie, Hitchens, and Harris are barking up the wrong tree. And I have a deeprooted suspicion that they knew exactly what they were doing when they were writing this misinformed article. That is; trying to kick up dust and create outrage against the dutch government who is doing something that any normal democraticly chosen government would do; Criticly looking at what the taxpayers money is spent on. 4 million a year might not be much for a country like the US, it is for the Netherlands.
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39. Comment #77670 by mono on October 10, 2007 at 4:53 am
Nightripper, you have strongly confirmed my point.Other Comments by mono
40. Comment #77677 by phasmagigas on October 10, 2007 at 6:02 am
one wonders what type of attack hirsi may one day endure. If she is attacked by a group of men theres a good chance they will be muslim and that the attack will possibly be centered around her genitals. In the minds of the attackers the words god, infidel and whore will feature prominently. religion poisons just about everything. Other Comments by phasmagigas
41. Comment #77680 by Pantore on October 10, 2007 at 6:20 am
ROFLMAOAyaan works for a criminal organisation and people should feel sorry for her?
Ignorant americans obvious do.
This wonderful AEI she works for supports the killing of people all over the world just because american interests need to be protected.
AEI is one of the masterminds behind the invasion of Iraq and it's no problem killing Iraqi's but don't you dare to touch the Holy Ayaan.
Do you ignorant americans ever think of your own country as being a terrorist country?
Why should the dutch taxpayer pay for her security?
Here's some education for ignorant americans & others.
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-3739500579629840148&q=war+on+democracy&total=2709&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Other Comments by Pantore
42. Comment #77684 by hfaber on October 10, 2007 at 6:53 am
I live in the Netherlands and I am shocked by the number of times I hear (non islamic) people say that Ayaan is the troublemaker and that she is responsible herself for the death threats. Too many people in the Netherlands can't or won't see the dangers of a fanatic religion like islam. It seems I am living in a country filled up with nutcases. Other Comments by hfaber
43. Comment #77685 by USA_Limey on October 10, 2007 at 7:00 am
Pantore, (Comment #77680), you absolute wanker.You type a few vitriolic hate filled lines insulting a women whose boots you are not fit to lick and then post a link to a John Pilger video as if that makes you smart.
Pilger is well known anti-american leftist agitator. In the video he speaks well of Hugo Chavez doesn't he? The same Hugo Chavez who is currently shutting down opposition media in Venezuela and has decided he needs to be 'president for life'. The same Chavez who stood on the floor of the UN and said he could smell 'Sulphur' and called Bush the Devil. Some Statesman!
I don't have time for a lengthy rebuttal right now as I am at work being a productive member of society but had to at least get off something that voiced my contempt for you.
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44. Comment #77686 by rokort on October 10, 2007 at 7:01 am
Pantore,if you don't seem to take some people here serious (using the word 'ignorant' three times in a couple of sentences, for example), why would we do you the favour in return?
You were born with all the knowledge there is i suppose? It all came falling from the sky, straight into your head?
And when are you going to answer my question in another thread about what you have done lately to raise awareness regarding the, let's say, imperfections of religion?
EDIT: thread, not threat.
Other Comments by rokort
45. Comment #77689 by minstrel on October 10, 2007 at 7:15 am
By rights it is actually the duty of the Muslim community in The Netherlands to step up and protect her. The message that Muslims would send to fanatics by funding her protection would speak volumes.The poor Dutch didn't know what they were stepping into when they agreed to sponsor Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I applaud their altruism in the face of fascism, but it has made them a magnet for fanatics now.
Other Comments by minstrel
46. Comment #77690 by Dr Benway on October 10, 2007 at 7:16 am
I'd like to know what Ayaan Hirsi Ali wants to do. She could do many things. She could remain at the AEI. She could return to Dutch politics. She could become an academic. She could involve herself in media production.Keeping her safe may be a different problem, depending on her location and her work. If she can telecommute to conferences or meetings she won't need so much security.
Here in the woods of nowhere, she'd be a lot safer than in DC.
Other Comments by Dr Benway
47. Comment #77698 by rokort on October 10, 2007 at 8:06 am
USA_LimeyOT:
It's 'week of Democracy' here on TV in the Netherlands, and yesterday there was a documentary about Hugo Chavez, his 2002 period, by Kim Bartley en Donnacha O'Brien (here). I can recommend it and to be honest, it was very insightfull (i've always been wary of this guy but my opinion might be up for a re-evaluation). For example, the 'Old Power' - like military and rich folks, many descendants of white Europeans - was always heavily supported by the church and the US, while the people in the street were absolutely in favor of Chavez.
It all seemed pretty sincere. I couldn't help but feel sympathy for 'the poor ordinary people of Venezuela' when expressing their disgust of the military and sympathy for Chavez on many occasions.
Other Comments by rokort
48. Comment #77702 by Sharrow on October 10, 2007 at 8:23 am
Having read Infidel and seen her in the media I am so impressed by this woman's courage and lucidity. Pressed once by a Canadian journalist who sneered at her 'buying the American dream' she responded that those born and grow up in a free country are able to 'spit on freedom'. Those who were not enjoy it in all of its forms. I do rather find the debate on who should pay for her protection and where she should live and whom she should work for rather tedious. I have the strong impression that, if the unspeakable does happen, and some fanatic gets to her, all those issues will become somewhat trivial and petty.
Other Comments by Sharrow
49. Comment #77704 by brainsys on October 10, 2007 at 8:27 am
USA Limey,Your outburst is sad. Yes Pilger is a critic of US administration's foreign policy. Isn't nearly everyone these days? That doesn't make him anti-american. Is the fearless hunt for truth un-american?
The US was (rightly) critical of UK imperialism. Does that make them anti-British?
Freedom is about taking criticism and finding truth - no matter how uncomfortable. Calling award winning investigative journalists 'agitators' is in itself an attack on freedom IMHO.
Yes I'm sure JP has, like us all, made some bad judgement calls. I once thought Mugabe was a good guy. But your outburst is no better than the religious fundies who seek to blacken the name and reputations of people they disagree with and by implication those news media that have checked, doublechecked and published JP's stuff.
You know - the marxist Daily & Sunday Telegraph, the anarchist Reuter's agency and the insurgent ITV ...
I'm afraid I'm finding most of the discussion in these Hirsi threads simplistic, unbalanced and riding on emotion rather than sorting through the complex web of fact and issues involved.
You know, a bit like a religious crusade.
Other Comments by brainsys
50. Comment #77706 by USA_Limey on October 10, 2007 at 8:41 am
BrainsysI don't have a problem with anything you said since it seems to be a genuine disagreement with my comments on Pilger. Ok fair enough. But the outburst, (it was, no denials there), was NOT primarily about Pilger; yet you focussed on that.
Did you actually read Pantore's post? You made no comment on it.
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1. Comment #77453 by Lagomort on October 9, 2007 at 11:01 am
Maybe it is time we start to chip in somehow as well?Other Comments by Lagomort