1. Comment #85676 by Crapsquire on November 6, 2007 at 7:59 pm

The one thing I will say for the so called 'Father' is that he said Annie Laurie Gaylor deserves just as much respect as him. This is something you would never have heard just a few years ago and certainly not twenty years ago. Perhaps we are slowly making headway -- this is a first baby step in the process of changing peoples minds. Suddenly now we deserve respect. Obviously that atheists are making a little noise hasn't hurt just as it didn't with gays and feminists.

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2. Comment #85682 by SmartLX on November 6, 2007 at 8:21 pm

Love the point where the host committed himself against Gaylor more than Morris would have dared. (Listen for the word "stupid"). That moment belongs in documentary montages of ill-informed, unprovoked rants as part of a picture of the antagonism we face.

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3. Comment #85687 by liberalartist on November 6, 2007 at 8:34 pm

Wow, thanks Fox news - I didn't realize that movie was anti-catholic. Can't wait to see it! I hope lots of other people feel the same way.

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4. Comment #85688 by Null-T on November 6, 2007 at 8:42 pm

"...ridiculous and stupid statement"

Nice to see FOX being fair and balanced as usual.

"science can't explain free will"

Really? Can religion? Let's see, a magical crybaby in the sky made man with free will and when man started acting in ways that upset the magical crybaby in the sky, man was punished. No, that certainly doesn't work for me.

As far as the film goes, I don't see why anyone is complaining. Do children really care what religion a fantasy movie is advocating? I certainly did not care about such things when I was a child. All I cared was about being entertained. But then again, I was born in an atheistic nation and despite my very religious great grandmother I always doubted the existance of god.

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5. Comment #85697 by Johan on November 6, 2007 at 10:07 pm

Notice how fox news starts to sound like fired up redical, actually mainstream, muslims. Does The Golden Compass denigrate christianity?, he askes with a tone in the voice as if that was an abomination.

Another point; this debate seems to me a good example of Sam Harris' latest remarks about the problem with the Atheism label.
I haven't yet seen the film in question but the claim that it "promotes atheism" seems to be the issues here and a problem for many, as if atheism was some kind of dogma worthy of contempt. Throw in the label atheism and you have a huge pedagogical task on your hands that has to be overcome before you can promote a naturalistic worldview and criticize the catholic church.

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6. Comment #85706 by JamesDB on November 6, 2007 at 10:39 pm

Yikes another good example of why i don't watch fox news.
TV interviews like this always piss me off when they talk over eachother and you can't hear what points are being made. How can you have a decent conversation in 2 minutes?
All i ever get out of these are blah blah fox loves jesus blah blah. Enough already.

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7. Comment #85710 by RickM on November 6, 2007 at 11:12 pm

I disagree with JamesDB, re: watching Fox News. I watch it vs. CNN about 70/30. (They're next to each other on the remote and easy to click back and forth).

You MUST watch Fox News. You think they're bad? You have no idea how bad they are. They make no bones about it. They push far-right politics and God all day long. They don't even bother (or seldom bother) using the phrase "fair and balanced" anymore.

If you hear about Fox and don't spend some time watching it, you really can't have an appreciation of how awful they are.

As for the moron priest, he's a regular.

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8. Comment #85712 by Diacanu on November 6, 2007 at 11:20 pm

Love how they're shitting eggrolls over Golden Compass, and Star Trek has been sneaking anti-religious messages under the door for 40 years.
"Who mourns for Adonais?", anyone?

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9. Comment #85718 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 6, 2007 at 11:49 pm

What a collection of idiots!

Okay, first of all, the usual swipes at the Fox News guy. 'Pushing Atheism on Kids' - will you get real? I read the Narnia series avidly when I was young, and I am hardly a Christian.

The Priest made the similar errors.

And our lady Annie Laurie Gaylor made a fool of herself too. How the hell do you 'dramatise unbelief'? And then she dredged up the most hackneyed complaints about the Inquisition, thus reinforcing the idea that 'atheism' is for a bunch of hypersensitive wackos. Great.

I'm already disliking this film because of this nonsense. Honestly, whatever happened to letting art be art? In my favourite books, I have rooted for characters who are catholics and atheists, Christians and infidels of every denomination. I love the writings of Dante and Milton, and can still enjoy a great tale which ends with the dethroning of God Himself.

What a collection.

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

10. Comment #85723 by SilentMike on November 7, 2007 at 12:08 am

What's the american term? "Partisan hack"?

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11. Comment #85724 by JanChan on November 7, 2007 at 12:22 am

I can't stand for news reporters that don't do their research right. First he mixed up the Christopher Hitchens quote, then he gets the whole movie wrong, it's not promoting atheism, it's a satire on Catholicism.

Other Comments by JanChan

12. Comment #85727 by Philip1978 on November 7, 2007 at 12:38 am

Sorry, just picked myself off the floor from laughing really hard!

My goodness, the Catholic Church is so hypocritical and arrogant to the core plus if that idiot representing them on the Fox news is anything to go by, they are looking scared as well!

I am not going to be so stupid as to say that is completely true after seeing one interview but I hope this trend continues.

I love the way that guy is saying "but they are targeting 11 year olds"! Er hang on matey, don't the Catholic church start proper indoctrination on babies dunking their heads in water and spouting Latin crap?

What is all this fuss about? Its just a book, a bloody good book mind you, have just started reading it, but all in all, as Fanusi Khiyal rightly said, people can enjoy books with religious characters as well as non religious ones. So what if God is attacked in this, dont read it, dont watch it, but don't dare assume that just because the Catholic church doesn't like it means other people can't make their own minds...oh no wait, religion wont allow for that - Freedom of speech as long as God allows it and since God is not around to fight his corner, the Catholic Church can make it all up!

Philip

Other Comments by Philip1978

13. Comment #85731 by MuNky82 on November 7, 2007 at 12:50 am

What a stupid clip.

I know Fox News is Jesusland News, but they didn't even give Annie Laurie Gaylor more than two sentences at a time. I am sure that the average Christian Right viewer would realize that the clip is unbalanced, if not then they are definitely intellectually unreachable.

It is strange how faithheads think that Atheism is another religion. It seems that they cannot grasp the fact that disbelief is not the same as belief. They see atheism as as anti-theism. I know a lot of of atheist are frustrated with the deluded irrationality and thus somewhat militant, but it is like we have a agenda of world domination (ala Islam). We (IMO) are just promoting reason over dogma, don't we? We don't want to replace dogma, we want to show what it is, and thus make the observer aware of the stupidity. Sort of like free-will anti-dogmatism. I am sure that EVERYBODY has reason underneath somewhere, I just hope that most are not too clouded over.

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14. Comment #85734 by MuNky82 on November 7, 2007 at 12:55 am

What is even more strange to me is how Fox News are conservative.

Isn't Fox the guys with the (traditionally) most liberal shows? (Thinking of "The Simpsons", and waaay back's "Married with Children")

How did it happen that their news channel became so conservative? And then of course the 2000 vote calling. (If Michael Moore is to be believed)

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15. Comment #85740 by Russell's Teapot on November 7, 2007 at 1:15 am

The health care system in this country would collapse without Christianity? I supposed the same could be said about the health care provided by Hezbollah in Lebanon, but that does not mean that Hezbollah is full of do-gooders.

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16. Comment #85741 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 7, 2007 at 1:17 am

It is strange how faithheads think that Atheism is another religion.

*dryly* I believe that Mrs. Gaylor may have something to do with that impression...

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

17. Comment #85749 by BaronOchs on November 7, 2007 at 2:31 am

Atheists are targeting 11year olds eh? No matter as the Jesuits say you've got to get them before the age of seven.

That Fr Morris is a member of the Legion of Christ whose founder Marcial Maciel was a paedophile. I think the vatican actually admitted the truth of the fact somewhere buried in a large document.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

18. Comment #85750 by clatz on November 7, 2007 at 2:32 am

This is the sort of thing my wife would stop me watching before I put the remote through the telly ;-)

Other Comments by clatz

19. Comment #85751 by tieInterceptor on November 7, 2007 at 2:33 am

Hitchens seems to be the only one who can argue its case on this fox news types of interviews, and come out "feeling" like the victor to the average viewer. It's all about repeating the starting phrase until the moderator shuts up and lets you talk.

A deep voice and quick mind helps too.

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20. Comment #85753 by stephenray on November 7, 2007 at 2:36 am

Surely the only required response is: Schools, kindergarten, colleges, national celebrations, sunday school, madrassas, church, christmas, yom kippur, ramadan, easter - one film written by an atheist is gonna turn children into free-thinkers?

If only...

Other Comments by stephenray

21. Comment #85754 by paulwwww on November 7, 2007 at 2:36 am

The whole commentary was quite a waste of time in my opinion. But I absolutely had to cringe when Ol'Father Jon said that the burden of truth in a God falls on the shoulders of the Atheist community. Evidently he needs to read over some of Sam Harris' work. The one thing for sure is the burden of truth for the existence of God, absolutely rests in those promoting the faith.

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22. Comment #85756 by Elcristoph on November 7, 2007 at 2:42 am

"Its teaching Atheism to 11 year olds", and whats the issue there, for starters Atheism isn't a dogma so pointing out the issues with belief is hardly "Teaching Atheism"....

no one cry or complains when the church puts on events for kids...kinda reminds my of something I heard about not that long ago when Jerry Falwell's foundation appealed to a school to allow religious flyer's, the school allowed it and a pagan organization decided to get involved and send out there own stuff...guess what happened then, the Christians through a fit and threatened to sue, one of the woman who worked for the Jerry organization threatened to sue saying

"This is why we need god back in school"....HAHAHAHA what a hypocrite they got religion involved in the schools but as soon as it wasn't just THERE religion they threw a fit....

And there the Atheism is a religion argument...NEWS FLASH..when you no longer believe in god YOU ARE BY DEFINITION AN ATHEIST....how is that a religion, what the definition of religion, the most common view is the belief in a supernatural being and the following of a dogma/belief system that promotes this supernatural being. OK so not believing in a supernatural being while people may say its a leap of faith in itself however making decisions based on the information available isn't a religion, and Id argue the second point is called COMMON SENSE.

Chris

Fox News needs to grow up...

Other Comments by Elcristoph

23. Comment #85759 by suffolkthinker on November 7, 2007 at 2:49 am

The curious thing about the His Dark Materials trilogy is that while it is oftne described as promoting atheism, the world described is clearly theistic in the sense that the "Authority" in it does exist. Of course that "Authority" is defeated and is obviously part of the Universe not spearate from it and the omnipotent controller of it as most religions preach. Sophisticated Theistic debaters ought to be able to use this to make a point, but of course they never do, being far too wrapped up in being offended about having their beliefs questioned or in complaining about having children "indoctrinated" by something other than their own world view.

I love the books for being the antidote to Narnia and their Christian allegories and wish the film well. I will wait until I see it before I pass judgement though - I am not sure I really trust Hollywood to be true to its spirit.

Other Comments by suffolkthinker

24. Comment #85772 by HereticChick on November 7, 2007 at 4:11 am

I bought this book years ago and never read it. I suppose now I'll have to dive on in!
As for Fox News...*gag* I can't watch their biased tactics. They make me sick. Annie Gaylor looked great, composed and, dare I say, SERENE? LOL!

Other Comments by HereticChick

25. Comment #85774 by dialector on November 7, 2007 at 4:34 am

Annie Laurie Gaylor was not prepared for an appearance on Fox news. Any atheist should know ahead of time that it is going to be a hit job. She was relatively slow in forming her words (a big no-no when you are being cut short on time already). She was also not able to make the sharpest comebacks. No surprise at the outcome.

Other Comments by dialector

26. Comment #85777 by 35bluejacket on November 7, 2007 at 4:55 am

U.S. version of PRAVDA: FOX

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

27. Comment #85780 by Rtambree on November 7, 2007 at 5:09 am

You can't watch this stuff seriously, otherwise you'd go mad.

Oh no, someone trashed our invisible friend, and who's going to protect the children now?!

Other Comments by Rtambree

28. Comment #85783 by notsobad on November 7, 2007 at 5:19 am

Fox News is good for a laugh but the fact that people take it seriously ... explains a lot.

The priest repeated the old million times refuted arguments but it seems they still work and will be repeated ad nauseum.

I also like it how these nut jobs always give some films free promotion.

MuNky82,
The Simpsons make fun of Fox News (and religion).

Other Comments by notsobad

29. Comment #85789 by Crazymalc on November 7, 2007 at 5:41 am

Wow. Can't wait to watch the movie!

And, it is a little rich of the Catholic church to accuse others of indocrtrinating children.

I'm sure we are alll well aware of the the problems with a "Catholic Child".

Other Comments by Crazymalc

30. Comment #85800 by Philip1978 on November 7, 2007 at 6:19 am

I think I have had an idea as to why religites get completely huffy about stuff like this, correct me if I am wrong, daft or both!

Religites fear us atheists cos apparently since our moral outlook isnt from a god, so we naturally are out to shoot, rape or go a bit Stalin on a full time basis, cos heck, no morals = no consequences.

So kids see this movie, by some amazing and highly improbable and dramatic turn of events they become atheists due to that naughty Pullman chap. There you have a whole generation of complete amoral criminals taking over the world- taking up smoking and drinking like Hitchens, writing more naughty books like Pullman, justifying killing people cos Sam Harris said so or worst of all TEACH EVOLUTION LIKE DAWKINS!!!

So they desperately fart about like monkey boy in this video or Bill O Reilly in abject fear of kids not growing up to be as stupid and deluded as them!!


Hows that for a theory?

Philip

Other Comments by Philip1978

31. Comment #85804 by Lana on November 7, 2007 at 6:36 am

I still don't know what point the priest was trying to make - that no one should make a movie that denigrates Catholics? If you think you'll be offended, don't see it. If you think it harms children, don't let your kids see it. I guess the segment was aired so Fox viewers would have a chance to get mad and self-righteous.

Other Comments by Lana

32. Comment #85806 by Quetzalcoatl on November 7, 2007 at 6:39 am

Philip-

go a bit Stalin on a full time basis

Only a BIT Stalin? What's that mean then? Should we grow moustaches, start speaking in Russian accents?

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

33. Comment #85807 by RickM on November 7, 2007 at 6:56 am

I'm sorry, I have to agree. Annie Laurie Gaylor is just way out of here league to attempt to argue in this venue.

Other Comments by RickM

34. Comment #85812 by artemisa on November 7, 2007 at 8:54 am

"Science can't explain freewill"

Let me give it a try and I'm not even a scientist.

Freewill: the explanation that when I choose to act in one way rather than another, I make the choice, and no set of external or internal causes cause me to choose the act I choose.

Other Comments by artemisa

35. Comment #85838 by pwl on November 7, 2007 at 9:57 am

Loved the last sentence ' I also respect your belief....' yep just not enough to let you speak for 5 seconds without interupting or to listen to what you say.

I agree with the points above about Annie Laurie Gaylor being to slow though. Anyone with rational views is going to be cut across but at least someone like Hitchens is sharp enough to get in an intelligent and witty response when it counts.

Other Comments by pwl

36. Comment #85850 by quill on November 7, 2007 at 10:21 am

I'm sorry, I have to agree. Annie Laurie Gaylor is just way out of here league to attempt to argue in this venue.

I think the fact that Annie Laurie took it an even pace and remained above engaging in the name-calling of her host was actually a good thing. Even Fox News viewers don't like seeing a fairly nonthreatening woman getting verbally abused so openly and with so little pretense of objectivity as they did here.

In comparison to her, the priest was practically yelling right from the start, and she made an excellent point with her observation that the Church was actually proving itself to be exactly what the film depicted it as being by attempting to censor a filmmaker. Her innocent laughter at the phrase "known atheist" probably made a point all by itself, highlighting for viewers which of the two guests was actually more "militant".

Is it me, though, or is anyone else starting to miss "Crazy" Bill Donohue? Nothing quite made my day like watching that bumbling blowhard, dressed up in robes as if he were an actual priest, try to wrestle with the English language. He was the ideal spokesperson for Catholicism, IMHO. ^-^

Other Comments by quill

37. Comment #85861 by Arcturus on November 7, 2007 at 10:51 am

HAHAHAHA!!!!! SOOOOO FUNNNYYYY!!! Catholics are afraid that a movie will reach out to kids! HILARIOUS! After all the indoctrination that is going on. The most hypocritical thing I've heard in ages!

What is their problem? Are they afraid that they cannot keep on feeding their lies? If you are confident in your parenting skills, and you spend some time with your kids, for sure you can discuss this movie with them, and rationalize what it says. If your position is so good, you should not be afraid of discussing new ideas.

You know the saying:"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". I guess they are afraid and too comfortable with their indoctrination process.

PS: please stop using the word "evangelism" near "atheism". The first meaning of evangelism is "to spread the gospel", and we know what "gospel" means. Why not "atheist enlightenment"?

Other Comments by Arcturus

38. Comment #85870 by PrimeNumbers on November 7, 2007 at 11:16 am

It must really hurt the Catholics when the shoe is on the other foot. For them to be the "victims" of a clever book that promotes a world view opposed to theirs, it must hurt them. What a bunch of crying babies they are.

And for their representitive to state that their religion has brought peace and comfort - that is a lie. To threated little children with the torment of hell, and then to physically and sexually abuse kids on top of that, the Catholic church doesn't have a moral leg to stand on.

Other Comments by PrimeNumbers

39. Comment #85873 by pantsandboots on November 7, 2007 at 11:25 am

Dammit! They stuck *her* in front of the Fox Network, don't get me wrong, poor girl was railroaded by the obviously partisan Fox presenter, but she was very... weak in the face of such antagonism.

Other Comments by pantsandboots

40. Comment #85880 by PrimeNumbers on November 7, 2007 at 11:48 am

She did mention the inquisition, which was a good counter, but really, when dealing with Catholics, you need to have a long list you can just shove down their throats:

Inquisition
Buiggering young boys
Magdelane Laundries
Physical and mental abuse
Hitler (repeat this a few times - it really annoys them to have one of their own go so bad and not be condemed by head office)
Hell
Aids (promotion thereof by lack of condoms)

anyone care to add to the list?

Other Comments by PrimeNumbers

41. Comment #85881 by AdrianT on November 7, 2007 at 11:52 am

Let's be clear about this. The days of good journalists like Dan Rather are over. This is terribly biased.

Any Fox interviewee needs to get ready for a battle, and be prepared to be rude, to continue talking to the end of the sentence, and correct false statements as the opponent makes them. Christopher Hitchens is the only one whom I've seen really getting the better of Fox - his Jerry Falwell eulogy was exemplarary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKkOSMaTk4

Atheist spokespeople really need to be like this to take on not just the media but the odeous bully Will Donohue from the Catholic League, and for these situations, Annie is not up to it at present.

Equally, I find the deference to the man in the dog collar appalling. Ugh!!!!


PS and to the list above, the Fascist regimes around the world. The fact that the current Pope Ratzinger is about to canonise a load of priests who fought alongside Franco's men, merely to irritate the current Spanish government's attempt to secularise the country, is another. Or not supporting Amnesty because it supports abortions for raped women..... the list is endless



Other Comments by AdrianT

42. Comment #85887 by notsobad on November 7, 2007 at 12:18 pm

PrimeNumbers,
do not mention Hitler, mention Nazi Germany.
If you mention Hitler, the debate will stray to his personal beliefs, which is not the point. The point is the cooperation between Nazi Germany and Vatican (Catholic Church) and the use of faith and god to promote Nazism. Also add Franco and Salazar, who were big supporters and promoters of the Catholic Church.

Other Comments by notsobad

43. Comment #85902 by PrimeNumbers on November 7, 2007 at 12:49 pm

I think Hitler is fair game from the point of view that the Vatican didn't ex-communicate him, nor deplore his actions. Indeed, his actions looked very much like the typical Catholic hatred of the Jews. That the Vatican supported Nazi Germany is another very good point.

Other Comments by PrimeNumbers

44. Comment #85922 by debaser71 on November 7, 2007 at 1:35 pm

Freakin' amazing that folk would point the finger at Annie Laurie Gaylor. She's done more for rationalism than probably everyone here (save Mr. Dawkins himself) combined. This sort of in fighting utterly disgusts me.

Anyway I think it's great when atheists get to go ob Fox news and make a few points that many many people get to hear (perhaps for the first time). I can recall a time when I was flipping through channels and I saw Ellen Johnson from American Atheists on Fox news. I wasn't into atheism that much oin those days but she said some things that got me interested.

Other Comments by debaser71

45. Comment #85925 by BigJohn on November 7, 2007 at 1:43 pm

Since when are atheists required to prove the nonexistence of god? I haven't heard that vacuous remark in a while. It seems to me that if you claim the existence of an invisible entity for which there is no evidence then the proof is up to you.

Other Comments by BigJohn

46. Comment #85935 by The Smart Patrol on November 7, 2007 at 2:08 pm

Anyone got any good Youtube links to similar Fox News nonsense? That was pure comedy gold. We need a news channel like that here in the UK.

Other Comments by The Smart Patrol

47. Comment #85936 by Frankus1122 on November 7, 2007 at 2:11 pm

I have booked my class to see the film December 14. We have read the first novel together and I have several copies of the last two in the library. We have had lively discussions around the nature of "Dust" / sin and the role of religion in our lives. We have also talked about the 'controversy' surrounding the movie. I have a lot of devout Christian children (11-12 year olds) in my class. I have received one email from a parent linking me to an online article about the 'controversy'. Her only comment was "You have probably already seen this but here is the link anyway."
I haven't sent home the permission forms to see the movie yet (too busy), but it will be interesting to see if I get any rejections. I'm not sure how I will handle this. I try to promote open questioning. I don't believe anyone should be prevented from being exposed to ideas. It certainly seems Fox and the Catholic Church are of this opinion. It may be some of the parents do. We'll see.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

48. Comment #85939 by D'Arcy on November 7, 2007 at 2:21 pm

Ms Gaylor did alright in the circumstances. Since when was the Catholic church so full of freedom and democracy? Never.

For more information on the Catholic Index of forbidden authors see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum

As Ms Gaylor said the alter boys have more to fear than the kids that watch "The Golden Compass".

Other Comments by D'Arcy

49. Comment #85942 by D'Arcy on November 7, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Sorry, the link hasn't worked. Here's the list of some notable authors banned by the Catholic church:[edit] Some notable writers on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum
Mary Faustina Kowalska
Joseph Addison
Francis Bacon
Honoré de Balzac
Simone de Beauvoir
Cesare Beccaria
Jeremy Bentham
Henri Bergson
George Berkeley
Thomas Browne
Giordano Bruno
John Calvin
Giacomo Casanova
Auguste Comte
Nicolaus Copernicus
Jean le Rond d'Alembert
Erasmus Darwin
Daniel Defoe
René Descartes
Denis Diderot
Alexandre Dumas, père
Alexandre Dumas, fils
Desiderius Erasmus
Johannes Scotus Eriugena
Gustave Flaubert
Anatole France
Frederick II of Prussia
Galileo Galilei
Edward Gibbon
André Gide
Vincenzo Gioberti
Graham Greene
Heinrich Heine
Thomas Hobbes
Victor Hugo
David Hume
Cornelius Jansen
Immanuel Kant
Nikos Kazantzakis
Hughes Felicité Robert de Lamennais
Pierre Larousse
Gregorio Leti
John Locke
Martin Luther
Niccolò Machiavelli
Maurice Maeterlinck
Maimonides
Nicolas Malebranche
Karl Marx
Jules Michelet
John Stuart Mill, Principles of Political Economy (placed on Index in 1856)[2]
John Milton
Charles de Secondat, baron de Montesquieu
Blaise Pascal
François Rabelais
Ernest Renan
Samuel Richardson
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
George Sand
Jean-Paul Sartre
Baruch de Spinoza
Laurence Sterne
Emanuel Swedenborg
Jonathan Swift
Theodoor Hendrik van de Velde
Voltaire
Gerard Walschap
Émile Zola
Huldrych Zwingli

And these are the same people who are hell bent on making Mother Teresa a saint!

Other Comments by D'Arcy

50. Comment #85943 by tangerine_tree on November 7, 2007 at 2:35 pm

I expected Chris Morris to appear in that clip...highly amusing.

Other Comments by tangerine_tree