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Friday, November 9, 2007 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version Print | Comments

Document Church row evolves over fossil boy

by Rob Crilly, Times Online

Thanks to James Doeser of www.badarchaeology.net for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2835639.ece

turkana boyTurkana Boy, considered the most complete early human fossil, is being removed from his bomb-proof vault to take centre stage at an exhibition that curators say will provide the most complete record of the evolution of Man.

However, the collection, to be show-cased for the first time at the Nairobi National Museum after a £5 million renovation financed by the European Union, has drawn sharp criticism from evangelical Christians who deny the theory of evolution.

They, in turn, are being opposed vociferously by scientists eager to study the specimens and to explore the role of Kenya as the cradle of humankind.

Bishop Boniface Adoyo, the head of the 35 Kenyan evangelical denominations, is leading opposition to the exhibition. "I do not dispute that as humans we have a history, but my family most certainly did not descend from the apes," he said. The bishop was invited to view the new Human Origins gallery before it opened this month, and said that he would call on his flock to demonstrate outside the museum if evolution was described as anything other than merely a theory.

"Bits of it are being disproved by scientists every day," he said. "Yet it's being taught in our schools to children - a theory being taught as fact."

His argument echoes a similar dispute in America, where creationists have developed the theory of intelligent design as a rival to Darwin's natural selection.

Among the exhibits at the museum are remains of primitive apes dating back 25 million years and evidence that primates have been walking upright for 4 million years.

The star of the show will be Turkana Boy, a 5ft 3in (1.62m) skeleton of a human who died 1.5 million years ago, aged about 12. It is the best-preserved example of Homo erectus, the species that set out from Africa to conquer the world.

Lining up against the evangelical movement is the country's most famous fossil-hunting family.

Richard Leakey, who led the team that unearthed the skeleton in the far north in 1984, dismissed the creationist argument. He said: "Science is at the very foundation of our ability to deal with the new century, so if we bring it down to the idea that science may be unChristian . . . well, how stupid can you get?"

Much of the museum's collection is based on finds made by his parents, Louis and Mary Leakey, in the 1920s.

Dr Leakey has his own concerns about displaying the skeleton, arguing that it would prevent access for scientists, who still have a lot to learn from Turkana Boy.

Fredrick Manthi, senior research scientist at the museum, said that he had no problem reconciling evolution with his Christian faith. The gallery, he added, was an attempt to show the world that Kenya could be considered the birthplace of humanity.

"We do not want to tell people what to believe. What we are doing is displaying the fossil record," he said.

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1. Comment #86519 by Zakie Chan on November 9, 2007 at 12:58 pm

 avatar"Yet it's being taught in our schools to children - a theory being taught as fact."

Good one! Nice to see the creationists are starting to get new argument LOL!!

I agree with Leakey, how stupid can you get?

Other Comments by Zakie Chan

2. Comment #86527 by black wolf on November 9, 2007 at 1:09 pm

 avatarI wonder when the day will come when African, European, American, Asian and Australian politicians, Unions and the UN will stand up and say, "Listen up people, we hereby recommend that you do not and no longer believe a word anybody with the title of Father, Bishop, or Cardinal, Mullah or Imam tells you about human evolution. They do not know what they're talking about and are trying to keep you dumb and uneducated. Faith is not of the physical world and therefore cannot comment on it."

Other Comments by black wolf

3. Comment #86535 by Elcristoph on November 9, 2007 at 1:35 pm

"Bits of it are being disproved by scientists every day,"

Genius, you know why doesn't anyone just gather these people together show them what we have to prove evolutionary theory and then ask them if they understand...least this way they'll know when there talking out there ass...and we'll know they know that.

chris

Other Comments by Elcristoph

4. Comment #86538 by Duff on November 9, 2007 at 1:41 pm

And people still continue to say we should be gentle with the creationist f**kwits. I say, in their face!

Other Comments by Duff

5. Comment #86539 by Matt7895 on November 9, 2007 at 1:45 pm

 avatar"Bishop Boniface Adoyo, the head of the 35 Kenyan evangelical denominations, is leading opposition to the exhibition. "I do not dispute that as humans we have a history, but my family most certainly did not descend from the apes," he said."

Then you, sir, are an idiot. Thankyou, goodbye.

There's no arguing with these people.

Other Comments by Matt7895

6. Comment #86540 by steve99 on November 9, 2007 at 1:45 pm

 avatarI think there is a really serious problem here, which is that the extremist and fundamentalist views of African bishops are fuelling racist views in Europe. This has to stop.

Other Comments by steve99

7. Comment #86541 by alexmzk on November 9, 2007 at 1:48 pm

"Bits of it are being disproved by scientists every day,"

-same for the Bible. stop "teaching" the Bible.

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8. Comment #86543 by liberalartist on November 9, 2007 at 2:04 pm

 avatar"how stupid can you get?"

Amen! :)

Africa has many problems - civil wars, lack of water resources, and conservative christianity, just to name a few.

Why can't they just display a model of Turkana Boy? Then the real thing would be available to scientists and away from fanatics. Display him to future generations, which I hope will be more reasonable.

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9. Comment #86544 by sidfaiwu on November 9, 2007 at 2:07 pm

 avatar
And people still continue to say we should be gentle with the creationist f**kwits. I say, in their face!


I feel your frustration. Unfortunately, simply getting angry and calling creationists names (that they often deserve to be called) has proven to be counter-productive. It only makes us look spiteful. This is one of those cases where there's a major difference between being right and being effective. Evolutionists need to learn some PR skills if they are going to have any impact on the public's perception.

But as long as we are among nearly exclusively evolutionists...

Stupid, ignorant, creationist, dimwits! It takes heroic efforts of selective blindness to think there is more evidence against evolution than for it! And what the hell is suppressing information supposed to accomplish? They are pretty much saying, "We're ignorant, and we want to make sure you are too!". F--ktards.

There, that felt better.

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10. Comment #86545 by room101 on November 9, 2007 at 2:08 pm

"Bits of it are being disproved by scientists every day," he said. "Yet it's being taught in our schools to children - a theory being taught as fact."


When dealing with creationists why does it always seem like we're dealing with children? Do these people read? I don't get it. I hate it when people make grand, sweeping scientific statements, as this idiot bishop does, based solely on his own feelings about the topic.

"Bits of it are being disproved..." by whom? Where? When? How? And why don't you understand the term "theory" as it is used in the scientific realm?

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11. Comment #86547 by room101 on November 9, 2007 at 2:15 pm

"...but my family most certainly did not descend from the apes"


You're correct, bishop. We didn't. We did share a common ancestor, though, in case you're wondering...

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12. Comment #86549 by scottishgeologist on November 9, 2007 at 2:22 pm

 avatarIts the same African Evangelicals of course who are fiercely homophobic.

And I must say, that "35 evangelical denominations" makes me wonder. 35? WTF? 35 denominations, and tht presumably doesnt include the Catholics?

So do they have names like "Free Evangelical Presbyterian Church of Kenya" as opposed to "United Presbyterian Reformed Evangelical Kenyan Church"?

Or maybe theres a "Reformed Orthodox Evangelical Presbyterian Free Baptist Charismatic Church of Kenya (Continuing) " in this heady mix of faith-head teams as well. The Judean Popular Front was nothing like this!

FFS, its bad enough here in Scotland where you have all these evangie churches with all sorts of subtle distinctives based on how the "inspired inerrant infallible WORD OF THE LORD" is read and applied.

And just think every one of those denominations will be SO SURE that their way is the only true way, that they possess THE TRUTH.

Religion poisons everything

SG

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13. Comment #86550 by dvespertilio on November 9, 2007 at 2:26 pm

Just wait until the christian and muslim fundamentalists in Africa really go at one another. Both faiths are pushing aggressively for converts, and there can only be more conflict coming out of that kind of scenario in the future. Such a pity that a continent with so many natural resources, so many different cultures, should be such a backward place divided by mindless ideologies. Not that much of the United States is any different, by the way. The problem, all over the world, is irrational ideologies, be they religious, political or economic, or some combination of the three. Frankly, I think we're doomed. Or, at the very least, it's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better. Too bad.

Other Comments by dvespertilio

14. Comment #86552 by Roger Stanyard on November 9, 2007 at 2:50 pm

 avatarI don't have time to research in any depth for the next few days but I think if you dig around a bit using Google you will find that Bishop Boniface Adoyo is a Pentecostal and represents only Pentecostals. You will also find American money behind his attack to the new museum.

Roger Stanyard, British Centre for Science Education

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

15. Comment #86554 by BillySands on November 9, 2007 at 3:08 pm

 avatarFunny, the bish thinks being a theory makes evolution less likely than a hypothesis that rests on delusion and wifful ignorance. Does he deny that there are primates in the clergy - ignorant prick!

Other Comments by BillySands

16. Comment #86556 by AppliedMootist on November 9, 2007 at 3:32 pm

Once again there is confusion between the rigorous requirements of a scientific theory and the general usage of theory as a synonym for an ungrounded "speculation." Note the relationship between scientific theory and fact.

From Wikipedia:
In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behaviour are Newton's theory of universal gravitation (see also gravitation), and general relativity.

In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. This usage of theory leads to the common statement "It's not a fact, it's only a theory." True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements which would be true independently of what people think about them. In this usage, the word is synonymous with hypothesis.

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17. Comment #86559 by BAEOZ on November 9, 2007 at 3:37 pm

 avatarRoger Stanyard:
You will also find American money behind his attack to the new museum.

Probably Ken Ham's answers in genesis or something shonky like that. Sigh.

Other Comments by BAEOZ

18. Comment #86560 by Crazymalc on November 9, 2007 at 3:42 pm

 avatarI think this Richard Dawkins response is best for this type of nonsense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2xGIwQfik

Other Comments by Crazymalc

19. Comment #86561 by Andrew Brown on November 9, 2007 at 4:05 pm

In reply to scottishgeologist.

Can't you just hear it?

"Are you the Judean People's Front?"

"F**k off, we're the People's front of Judea!"

There's only one group these bozos hate more than some one different to them and that's someone nearly the same as them!!!

And I have seen the effect of Christianity in Africa. Karl Marx's dictum of the religion being the opium of the masses is being demonstrated every day there. Sad, Sad sad

Other Comments by Andrew Brown

20. Comment #86613 by RickM on November 9, 2007 at 5:38 pm

 avatarI hate the Priest Class; they are the true scum of the earth.

Other Comments by RickM

21. Comment #86634 by eric.malitz on November 9, 2007 at 7:31 pm

Of course they had to add that the curator had "no problem reconciling evolution with his faith". Actually they are certainly NOT reconcilable.

Other Comments by eric.malitz

22. Comment #86696 by scottishgeologist on November 10, 2007 at 1:53 am

 avatarThe Bish is head of "Christ is the Answer Ministries" www.citam.org Looks like standard pentecostal, charismatic woo-woo stuff.

From what they believe:

"In the eternal conscious bliss of all true believers in Christ and in the eternal conscious punishment in the lake of fire for all Christ rejecters"


So there. Bish said it. Must be true. Looks like we're all f*cked.....

But one serious point. I read in an articel a few years ago, that pentecostalism and charismania take off thrive best in cultures where there is ALREADY a folk history of animism, spiritism, folk-religion and stuff like that.

In other words people are pre-disposed and receptive to this pish.

And of course there is a ready stream of chralatan missionaries like Reinhard Bonnke and others ready to supply it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Bonnke

Interestingly from the wikipedia article, we read:

In the early 1990s Bonnke, who had uttered a number of prophecies of a major world revival which would start in the UK, was involved in an initiative called Minus to Plus, which aimed to reverse the decline in church attendances in the United Kingdom. The initiative, which involved the distribution of millions of copies of a booklet to homes throughout the country, was hoped to 'win' 250,000 converts. However, only 20,000 were 'won over', and these were mostly those returning to the faith rather than coming to it for the first time, and church attendances continued to decline

That is exactly why these predators are at work in Africa and other developing countries. Its easy for them there . They know full well that in Europe at any rate they'll get told to "foxtrot oscar"

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23. Comment #87014 by Vaal on November 11, 2007 at 2:03 am

 avatarI sincerely hope that the Kenyan authorities are providing adequate security for this priceless exhibit.

I would be horrified if the legions of the ignorant managed to vandalize or steal this irreplaceable skeleton, a legacy of all mankind.

I wonder what this young Homo erectus boy would think, if he could look across the ages from 1 1/2 million years ago, to see his ancestors didn't even recognize his existence. If it wasn't so sad, it would be laughable.

Shaman Boniface, you are looking at your Great Great Grandfather, thousands of times removed, regardless of what you believe. What a shame you can't look him in the eye.

Other Comments by Vaal

24. Comment #87813 by irate_atheist on November 13, 2007 at 8:12 am

 avatarDear Bish -

I'll see your Garden of Eden and raise you one Atlantis and a Camelot.

What cards are you holding, Bish?

Sorry - my Minotaur beats your Grim Reaper. My round. Cards, dealer, please.

Kindest regards,

Irate Atheist

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25. Comment #87855 by arogop on November 13, 2007 at 11:51 am

 avatarBy Vaal -
Shaman Boniface, you are looking at your Great Great Grandfather, thousands of times removed, regardless of what you believe. What a shame you can't look him in the eye.

------------------------

Actually if he died at 12 he may not be his grandfather many times great. Probably a nephew or cousin.

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