1. Comment #87178 by Mister_X on November 11, 2007 at 11:45 am

I agree brainwashing can and does take place in cults and religions but brainwashing isn't just limited to religion and/or cults. People can be brainwash to a certain political doctrine or agenda as well to a point where they are loyal to that doctrine no matter what. Look at Fox News (most of it). Like the article says, you don't need abuse, isolation, or emasculate to gain control of a mind. People can be brainwashed into most anything to believe. Doubts can your best friend sometimes.

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2. Comment #87184 by eric.malitz on November 11, 2007 at 11:57 am

well put, but most religious people I know (in the fairly liberal midwest US) simply started out casually religious, but were reinforced to continue into a declarative religious role later on (through other moderate religious relatives and friends). So maybe something akin to this happens among moderates too, I guess it comes down to whether or not people attend a church. My girlfriend attended an evangelical megachurch and that is certainly what went on. But moderate religious belief is just 'trendy', or at least, being an atheist is still kind of taboo ('you cant DISPROVE god'..thats the main thing I hear)

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3. Comment #87185 by Northern Bright on November 11, 2007 at 12:01 pm

1) Find lonely, desperate people

2) Break them down: Make them feel much worse about themselves

3) Build them back up: make them feel good about themselves again

4) Repeat 2-3 until their sense of self-worth is completely dependent on you

5) Reveal the "true" beliefs of the cult and take all their money

This is interesting, but a little simplistic, I think. The author defines any religion as a cult and my experience of mainstream Christianity is that it does NOT take lonely, desperate people and break them down, it takes lonely, desperate people and hooks them in by giving them apparent acceptance, companionship, love - in other words, by building them up. Which might not be such a bad thing if it were to stop at that, but of course we all know it doesn't: the "unconditional" acceptance that's on offer at the beginning rapidly becomes very conditional indeed.

What this article fails to recognise is that lonely, desperate, vulnerable people are perfectly able to feel guilt without anyone imposing it from outside. The church cleverly (you could say "cynically") exploits this.

There's also more to the way the church hooks newcomers in than is suggested by this article: by claiming that it's ONLY in the bosom of the church that you'll be safe from the evils of the world, that it's ONLY your "church family" that can be truly trusted and depended on, and by painting a false image of the "badness" of all those outside the church.

How many times have we heard Christians answer "I really don't know what I'd be capable of without God" when we challenge them as to whether they truly believe they'd be more like to commit murder if it weren't for their religious belief? So undermining their belief in themselves and their own moral judgements is a huge part of what the church does - but I still say it happens AFTER the new recruit has become emotionally dependent, not as part of the process of bringing that dependence about.

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4. Comment #87186 by ChrisMcL on November 11, 2007 at 12:03 pm

I don't know much about the psychology of cults and brainwashing, but it seems that the definitons given by the author are so broad as to include a university education. Was I "brainwashed" as I took exams, and when I learned how to develop my reasoning skills?

One of the principal dishonesties that I associate with Christianity is that its religion "offers" us things; that it makes one seem ungrateful to not accept its deeply menaingful offerings. Jesus died for you. God offers you forgiveness and peace and eternal life. It's as if you'd have to be jerk or an idiot not to accept these wonderful gifts.

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5. Comment #87188 by alexmzk on November 11, 2007 at 12:10 pm

extraordinary article. i recognised that description of brainwashing in my Christian friends' regimes, and indeed in my own early exposure to religion.

the key things to note are that the "cults" are now run by the "brainwashed" and that most are not aware that they are actually brainwashing people anymore.

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6. Comment #87192 by Mister_X on November 11, 2007 at 12:22 pm

It is possible every person is brainwashed not by a religious authority but perhaps something much 'smaller.' I admit I, too, might be brainwashed into thinking drinking milk helps me lose weight. In fact, grown people, few but not all, are afraid to walk underneath ladders or believe chewing gum remains in the stomach for seven years. Fortunately, these people are not trying to pass laws denying people who do walk underneath ladders or do not believe chewing gum remains for seven years in the stomach from marrying.

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7. Comment #87195 by Goldy on November 11, 2007 at 12:40 pm

My wife loved (and maybe still does) Mao. She was told he saved China. Mao did so much and expected nothing - he died for China.
Comapre that to the ardent Christian's views on Christ. Yet one is an athiestic cult and the other is an organised religion. Hmmmm.....

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8. Comment #87215 by 601 on November 11, 2007 at 1:51 pm

Although invoking the supernatural is not critical for a cult, it sure comes in handy. An afterlife is priceless, and so far no one has tried to get a refund. A quick test of cult status is what happens if you quit.

A film version, "Ticket to Heaven" (1981) http://imdb.com/title/tt0083201/

Plot Summary: David is a young man seduced by a religious cult that uses starvation, exhaustion, and brainwashing to mold recruits into money hustling disciples of a messiah-like leader. Chronicles David's chilling transformation into a gaunt, mindless shadow of his former self...and his ultimate salvation when friends and family launch a plan to kidnap and deprogram him.

This film left me even more immune to recruitment and cynical about donations to street profits. I especially enjoyed the complexity of the deprogramming effort.

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9. Comment #87264 by notsobad on November 11, 2007 at 3:42 pm

This does not apply to religions only though.

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10. Comment #87314 by octopus on November 11, 2007 at 7:31 pm

How many followers a cult needs to be called a religion? Sorry, I could never figure out the difference between the two. :(

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11. Comment #87315 by Diacanu on November 11, 2007 at 7:36 pm

Goldy-

My wife loved (and maybe still does) Mao. She was told he saved China. Mao did so much and expected nothing - he died for China.

Also, he inspired the song "surfin' bird".

Poppa-poppa-oo-Mao-Mao!! Poppa-oo-Mao-Mao!!
Poppa-oo-Mao-Mao! Poppa-oo-Mao-Mao-Mao!!

*Snicker* tell your wife, see if she buys it.

Seriously, do it.

Do it!!

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12. Comment #87325 by Anlao on November 11, 2007 at 8:11 pm

The article tries too hard to present normal behavioral change processes in a dramatic manner. Brainwashing, as described, is something we do and is done to us in every day of our lives.

When a person reaches a low in their life (be it drug abuse, alcohol, gambling, sickness, relationship trouble, or just dissatisfaction with ones life), it seeks understanding of how it happened. And since we all know in the back of our minds that we are responsible for our own actions, when a person looks back on their actions its normal to have some levels of guilt, sadness, frustration, wrong doing, and a desire to do some things differently. It's inevitable, regardless if they look back trough the lenses of some religious belief, psychology and science, or trough their own lenses containing a mishmash of both. Next step is walking the path of change, whether alone or with somebody: for some is the psychologist, a close friend, or a religious support-group.

Same techniques are even used by psychologists and personal coaches in their work. Experiencing some sort of personal disappointment, anger, frustration with regards to oneself is normal and can be beneficial, and is the direct result of realizing your own shortcomings. One cannot avoid going trough that or refuse to become aware of their weaknesses simply for the purpose of not having " a low self-esteem". Self-esteem is not a one-time event, is a building or breaking –down process.

For those interested in video documentaries on mind control and cult development, "The Pagan Invasion" series, even though developed by Christians, deals with exactly that (well, for every cult except their own )
http://www.christianreality.com/videos/vs-vid115-09.htm

"They take your independent sense of self-worth and turn it into a cult-dependent sense of self-worth."
I agree, but with the comment that it's a normal and natural thing. And in the end, not bad! Whatever works for them, right? Even atheists are not immune to that, our independent sense of self-worth is actually dependent on a set of rules of thinking and behaving, very much cult-like.

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13. Comment #87327 by zarcus on November 11, 2007 at 8:13 pm

Can someone tell me please, who the author is of this essay?

When I click on the name, mike, I get linked to a page, but I see no info. on the author. In the, about, section there is also no mention of the author[s]. I only see the side bar of, "about Michael".

I only ask because it is posted here and the research and conclusions seem lacking. I see no references, outside of general Wiki pages and no mention of studies.

So, who is this, anyone know?

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14. Comment #87331 by bungoton on November 11, 2007 at 9:15 pm

I have to take issue with the term brainwashing. It is more correctly called mind control in the way that cults use the techniques. Mind control can be achieved by taking control of one of several things - information, behaviour, thoughts or beliefs. Control of any one of those can lead to control of all of them.
The main difference between mind control and brainwashing is that with brainwashing you know who the enemy is. Mind control is done by your 'friends'.

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15. Comment #87380 by irate_atheist on November 12, 2007 at 2:12 am

10. Comment #87314 by octopus -

How many followers a cult needs to be called a religion?

Excellent question! When does collective insanity become respected?

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16. Comment #87382 by BaronOchs on November 12, 2007 at 2:22 am

How many followers a cult needs to be called a religion? Sorry, I could never figure out the difference between the two. (

octopus you would certainly notice the difference if you visited the local unification church, then the local anglican church.

Members of cults are completely consumed into the social world of the cult which seeks to control their entire lives. This isn't the case for practising members of religion in general.

Although I'd say religious groups lie on a level-of-control spectrum, to attempt a tentative outline.

liberal prostestants> catholics> evangelical protestants> 7th day adventists> mormons> moonies.

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17. Comment #89369 by 35bluejacket on November 20, 2007 at 1:02 pm

Someone needs to ask the question: What is the safeguard of getting brainwashed into "any" ideology?

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18. Comment #89388 by tybowen on November 20, 2007 at 1:52 pm

Wow. I attended the Mormon Missionary Training Center (to please my parents) and this article could have been one of the hand outs they gave us on techniques if it was changed to have a positive connotation.

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19. Comment #98919 by tribalypredisposed on December 14, 2007 at 10:35 pm

I think we need to understand some of the underlying evolved psychology of humans in groups here. I presume everyone here believes in evolution...

First, humans evolved to be group social animals and our groups are defined by cultural boundaries, not by kinship. From this comes several salient insights. Culturally defined groups need to have conformity or they cannot work. Most of us are predisposed to conforming and also predisposed to enforcing conformity. Most of us, and there are empirical studies showing this, change our beliefs at the subconscious level to conform to our group; doing so while asserting, we believe honestly, that no change has been made.

Second, we commit to a group psychologically by attaching our view of ourselves to our view of the group, we come to see them as more similar to ourselves than they are and the out-group as more dissimilar than they are. We automatically at the subconscious level become positively biased towards members of our group, making excuses for them and justifying their actions. We see ourselves as good and this is extended to our group, the group of good people. Religion is very well designed to exploit this process.

Third, humans groups are defined in opposition to other human groups, there is always a group that you are NOT and in general people are predisposed to seeing the attributes of that other group as the opposite of the groups they ascribe to their own group. Tragically both Islam and Christianity defined themselves as NOT Jewish when they were founded, laying the groundwork for everything that followed. Because if your group is good and my group is the opposite of your group...we are the evil group.

Since religion typically expressly claims to be opposing evil, this also plays well with our psychology.

Finally we make ourselves vulnerable in the West because of our baseless belief in our own rationality. Evolution had no special need to select for rational humans, in fact it was not very useful in many cases, and downright maladaptive at times. For most of our evolutionary past there was no science and any belief was just as much BS as any other belief. Better to just go along with whatever your group said then instead of disagreeing and getting yourself killed for no good reason.

Remember, we are social animals. We want a group that accepts us as one of them and risking being kicked out of that group is risking psychological death. In some cases we take real death over this, as in suicide cults.

My way of telling what is a cult and what is a religion is the Law of Schisms: if there is a schism then it is a religion, if not then it is a cult.

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20. Comment #107969 by the_ultimate_samurai on January 5, 2008 at 5:38 pm

"church, synagogue, temple, mosque, dianetics center, jinja, mandir, kingdom hall, and shrine "

i question the use of jinja in that area, if i recall jinja is the name for a shinto shrine, which generaly doesnt have people going there every so often and being preached to, in fact there is no meeting place or real preaching of shinto, which is why most followers of shinto do not consider themselves religious.
the shrines are family owned and maintained. a shinto priest or priestess will be born to that shrine, the duties are mostly just to maintain it (clean it and such) also preparation for the festivals. when people go to a shrine its usualy just to pray, drop a coin in the area, clap twice, make your prayer, and ring the bells. though one could say that is a means to get the peoples money, its realy no worse than a wishing well. actually its pretty much the same thing. most people dont mind tossing a coin into a pond for instance, at the mall they have a fountain and people toss their coins into the fountain and make a wish, i dont even make a wish i'll just toss a coin in...i kinda like throwing things in water..i also like throwing rocks in rivers...i dont know what they do with the coins, but i dont much care it was only a penny.
i wouldnt put a jinja in the same area as a church though.
also i wouldnt put shinto as being a very dangerous religion, actually most eastern religions tend to be on the benign, least compared to the abrahamic religion. most eastern religions are less theology and more philosophy.

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21. Comment #142050 by bewitchednour on March 11, 2008 at 7:15 pm

Ofcourse our fear of death and our conformation to a misguided society keep us from seeing how beautiful the world is and looking for heaven while its under our noses. Religions decreases those fears by telling us death is not real and this is not the only life we are going to live. Can you blame people for believing it? Any animal's greatest fear including the human being is death. Thats a product of natural selection i think.

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22. Comment #148010 by Kax on March 21, 2008 at 7:13 pm

Here's a good way to rate a cult, whatever it calls itself: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

It's by Isaac Bonewits, but written for general use.

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