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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

by Sam Harris

Reposted from:
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-ayaan-hirsi-ali-security-trust-answere/

Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust
Answered by Sam Harris

Version 1.1

1. As a bestselling author, can't Ayaan Hirsi Ali afford to pay for her own protection?

For security reasons, I cannot give specific information about the arrangements that have been made for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, but I can say that the average security costs for people with similar security profiles can be in excess of two million dollars per year. Needless to say, very few writers sell enough books to cover such an extraordinary expense (and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not among them).

This might seem like an outrageous sum to spend so that one woman can safely stand at a university lectern and speak about the power of reason and the rights of little girls—and it is an outrageous sum and an outrageous circumstance. It is, of course, galling that a mere advocate of human rights and basic rationality should require special protection in the United States. But this is simply a fact of life in a world where freedom of speech and conscience falls ever more under the shadow of Muslim fanaticism. In my opinion, there is no one making a more heroic effort to change this fact than Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

2. In your original appeal, you wrote that "if every reader of this email simply pledged ten dollars a month to protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the costs of her security would be covered for as long as the threat to her life remains." How can you say this if you don't know how far the email has spread? And if you only need $10 from each person why does the security page have options to give as much as $1000 per month?

The idea of offering a monthly subscription was to allow everyone to make a meaningful contribution to Ms. Hirsi Ali's protection. Given what I know about the general costs of security, and the fact that the original email went out to over 15,000 people, it was correct to say that Ms. Hirsi Ali's needs would be largely met if everyone gave $10 a month indefinitely. However, the truth is that only about half of the people receiving the email will open it; fewer will read it; and fewer still will donate.

I would be extremely happy if we could meet Ms. Hirsi Ali's security needs in a grassroots way, with small donations, but this is not realistic. Protecting her will require some much larger gifts of money. Such gifts are still needed and actively being sought.

3. Aren't there more important causes to support than the protection of Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

There are countless worthy targets for our generosity. Whether it is helping to alleviate hunger in the developing world or building a new pediatric hospital in the United States, one must choose between absolute need and absolute need, and such choices often defy rational justification.

Allow me to briefly make the case, however, that in this wilderness of competing needs and limited resources, the ongoing protection of Ayaan Hirsi Ali deserves our special commitment. In fact, few projects represent such a perfect marriage of moral and intellectual necessity. While the threat of Muslim extremism still seems distant to many of us living in the developed world, I think it is the one problem that has the potential to suddenly eclipse all others.

When one considers the cascading effects of what 19 jihadists did with box-cutters on September 11th, 2001--now measured in the trillions of dollars--it is difficult to imagine how the world might look after a single incident of nuclear terrorism. I think it is safe to say, however, that if we do suffer even one such attack, global warming will seem the least of our concerns. For this reason, I think that the superstition and bigotry that currently plagues Muslim communities, East and West, is the most pressing issue of our time. I know of no person better placed to awaken the world to the scope of this growing emergency than Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

4. Might this just be a waste of money? Do bodyguards actually make a difference?

Anyone who doubts the effectiveness of professional security should remember that Ms. Hirsi Ali's colleague, Theo van Gogh, having declined diplomatic protection of his own, was immediately murdered on an Amsterdam street. It is true that no security can be perfect, especially when one's enemies are willing to commit suicide. But the fact that U.S. diplomats successfully travel to places like Kabul and Baghdad demonstrates that the combination of intelligence, secrecy, and armed protection can make a difference. It is safe to say that Ms. Hirsi Ali is only alive today because the Dutch gave her diplomatic protection the moment she started receiving death threats in 2002.

5. Isn't it true that the Dutch would still protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali if she remained in Holland?

The Dutch government has said as much. But the offer does not seem to be in good faith. The threat to Ms. Hirsi Ali is actually greatest in Holland, and it is much more expensive to protect her there. In fact, the security precautions necessary to keep her safe in Holland are quite stifling. She is much better placed in the U.S. to do her work. (For more on this subject, please see the opinion piece I wrote with Salman Rushdie).

6. Why single out Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Don't other Muslim dissidents need our support?

There surely are other Muslim dissidents who are threatened and deserve our support. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is the most visible, however. In the event we raise enough money for her security, we will help others as well. Several of us are in the process of forming non-profit foundations for this larger purpose.

7. What will you do with the money, if you don't raise enough of it?

The Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust will pay for Ms. Hirsi Ali's security until the money runs out. Hopefully we will raise enough to cover her needs indefinitely. If we do not raise enough money, and no government steps forward to offer her diplomatic protection, Ms. Hirsi Ali could be forced to stop doing her work and enter the witness protection program. Hopefully it will never come to that.

8. What will you do if you raise more money than is needed?

Given the costs of Ms. Hirsi Ali's security, excess funds are not expected. However, if we raise enough money to cover Ms. Hirsi Ali's security, I will send an announcement by email to every person who has donated to the Security Trust through this website. This will give people a choice about whether to continue to give to a surplus fund. I will, of course, make a similar announcement if Ms. Hirsi Ali is ever given diplomatic protection by the U.S. government (or any other).

The surplus fund will be used to support other dissidents and public intellectuals in the Muslim world - through conferences, media events, publications, or by making similar efforts to pay for their protection.

9. Ayaan Hirsi Ali works for the American Enterprise Institute—a "neoconservative" think-tank. Why should liberals support her?

Ms. Hirsi Ali's cause transcends politics and should motivate liberals and conservatives equally. The American Enterprise Institute, to its great credit and to the enduring shame of my fellow liberals, was the only think-tank to offer Ms. Hirsi Ali a job when her security concerns finally forced her to leave Holland. Even if you find the views of certain AEI fellows as objectionable as I do, please recognize that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an independent scholar. The AEI deserves credit for having the courage and wisdom to support her. While the AEI is shouldering the burden of Ms. Hirsi Ali's security for the time being, it cannot absorb these costs indefinitely.

10. How widely is this appeal being circulated? Is this only a secular effort, or have you reached out to Christians and moderate Muslims as well?

I've reached out to everyone I think could be helpful, including people like Pastor Rick Warren. I am very happy to say that Pastor Warren responded immediately (as fast as the fastest atheist) and pledged to help. I've also sent this appeal to my few contacts among practicing Muslims. Needless to say, I think it would be only fitting if moderate Muslims helped protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali from the immoderate ones.

11. Is there a risk that a high profile appeal such as this might be seen as a victory by the extremists who threaten Muslim apostates?

From my point of view, we don't have the luxury of worrying about this. I think our society should be devoting immense resources to the problem of encouraging and protecting dissidents in the Muslim world. Until governments realize this, private citizens will have to do what they can. The real victory for the extremists would be if someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali could no longer make public appearances and do her work.



12. Will you personally be giving to the Security Trust every month?

Absolutely.


Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust to me at author@samharris.org. Please have the subject line read: "Question about the Security Trust"

Go to the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust:
http://www.samharris.org/site/security_trust/

Comments 1 - 50 of 120 | | View Alternate Comment Thread

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1. Comment #89454 by Janus on November 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm

 avatarAll right, Sam. I'm convinced.

I don't like "automatic" recurring payments of any kind, so I'll just donate a $120 every 12 months, starting now.

Other Comments by Janus

2. Comment #89455 by ADParker on November 20, 2007 at 7:59 pm

 avatarThanks Sam, I note a lot of people raising concerns and questions. good of you to respond.

I for one just pledged a donation.
To my mind it doesn't much matter if it ends up doing no good, or even, as suggested by one or two, if she was pulling the wool over everyones eyes (I completely fail to see how that conclusion can be reached but anyway).

The simple fact is, we have a chance to do a good deed, to "put our money where our mouth is" as some say, to personally try to help a fellow non-theist in need of aid.

I also like the idea that if a (wealthy) government refuses to help a person in need, the people (the "evil" atheist ones no less!) are willing to step in with their much more meager assets and do what they can.
I'm just a poor postman making a meager wage indeed, I gave my $25 donation ($33.66 of my NZ dollars), surely most of you can at the very least afford to do the same?
Stop second guessing everything and give from the heart.
To me it is no big deal if my donation comes to nothing, I gave to what I considered a good cause, I tried to help, to improve the world just a little. I did good, no matter the consequences.

Other Comments by ADParker

3. Comment #89457 by 35bluejacket on November 20, 2007 at 8:06 pm

You have my support and tell Mr.Rick Warren thanks. (But I'm not going to let him take the moral high ground here.)

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

4. Comment #89459 by 35bluejacket on November 20, 2007 at 8:29 pm

Peter K:
You are proving the Christian argument that atheist can not be moral and show compassion for humanity. I'm under the impression that that is what this site is all about, helping humanity to mature. Maybe you should find another site more inclined to your view.

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

5. Comment #89460 by eXcommunicate on November 20, 2007 at 8:30 pm

 avatar
6. Why single out Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Don't other Muslim dissidents need our support?

There surely are other Muslim dissidents who are threatened and deserve our support. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is the most visible, however. In the event we raise enough money for her security, we will help others as well. Several of us are in the process of forming non-profit foundations for this larger purpose.


I'm not arrogant enough to say it was my question he was specifically addressing here, but generally he did just address my suggestion/questions about this. See? All it takes is simple, straightforward, honest answers like Sam gave to abate reasonable people like myself. No need to call names and accuse people of callousness. Just donated a modest amount (I'm "between careers" at the moment).

Other Comments by eXcommunicate

6. Comment #89463 by GBG on November 20, 2007 at 8:59 pm

 avatarAre any representatives of the "religion of peace" putting their hands in their pockets to protect Hirsi Ali from people who will no doubt be called "not real muslims" by any "real muslims" who read this?

Other Comments by GBG

7. Comment #89467 by MelM on November 20, 2007 at 9:39 pm

Thanks Sam, for all your efforts.

This from Ayaan's blog. Here's more of what we're up against. More threats in Denmark.

http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/ayaanhirsiali/2007/11/danish_politica.html

Other Comments by MelM

8. Comment #89470 by Big T on November 20, 2007 at 9:59 pm

If some people do not wish to give, that's fine. I have not tried to "shame" or "guilt" anyone else into donating, honest. But I regard what has been called "Islamofascism" as a very real threat to freedom of expression everywhere on Earth. Remember, many many newspapers and magazines refused to publish the cartoons of Muhammad in places like America. Why? Because they were afraid, of course. I have a middle-class job and lifestyle and I have contributed because I consider it a worthwhile cause. And I intend to continue to contribute. Thanks for giving me the chance, Sam.

Other Comments by Big T

9. Comment #89471 by Ben Jennings on November 20, 2007 at 10:05 pm

 avatarSam is an inveterate Last Word freak, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. You can always count on him to to respond... and promptly.

Other Comments by Ben Jennings

10. Comment #89473 by kaiser on November 20, 2007 at 10:22 pm

I would strongly suggest that you have a paypal option so a lot more people can donate (sending in checks will turn a lot of people off).

Also I think a lot people will donate the moment they are in "the mood" and perhaps won`t do it 2 days later by sending a check.

Other Comments by kaiser

11. Comment #89477 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on November 20, 2007 at 10:39 pm

 avatarNow that, was how to do it:-) Thanks Sam.

11. Comment #89473 by kaiser on November 20, 2007 at 10:22 pm
I would strongly suggest that you have a paypal option so a lot more people can donate (sending in checks will turn a lot of people off).


There is a paypal option.

Other Comments by briancoughlanworldcitizen

12. Comment #89480 by Ben Jennings on November 20, 2007 at 11:10 pm

 avatar
If anything, I am downplaying how I feel about this--but if prompted, I will continue to embellish further.


And if not prompted, you'll promise to shut up?

Other Comments by Ben Jennings

13. Comment #89481 by Spinoza on November 20, 2007 at 11:18 pm

 avatarWhen I was in Holland last summer, I mentioned Ayaan to some people just to see what the Dutch think of her, and they were ANGRY. In general she is not well liked by anyone there (seemingly regardless of religion). The reason they gave me was that the Dutch government should not have been using tax-payer money to protect her, especially since she was no longer a member of the government there, nor residing in Holland.

They also did not like that she was so outspoken.

Several Muslim friends of mine who call themselves liberal, or libertarian even, have expressed disdain for her, because they think she has oversimplified the problems faced by women in African-Arab countries... Specifically, they claim that female genital mutilation is not in the Quran, nor in the Hadith, but is, rather, an Arabism that came with the Muslim Arabs to Africa. They don't like it either, but they themselves do not consider it Islam's problem. I have told them that this is to confuse the problem. Of course it doesn't SAY anything about it in the holy books of Islam, but it is the problem of MUSLIMS because Muslims, regardless of why, are the ones doing it.

This seemed to make headway... but at the same time, they were not convinced that fighting religion was the way to get abuse of women to stop (obviously, because they are religious).

In any case... it was certainly interesting to note the opinion of the Dutch towards Ayaan.

To me she seems very nice, obviously intelligent, and passionate... But like Peter Singer's appeals for us to give 25% of our money away to charity... I just personally don't think it's a good way of going about things.

I hope Ayaan stays safe, but I would much rather that the American government offer her protection gratis, or that some wealthy patron or two take on her cause.

As a student, I cannot even afford $10.

Sorry Ayaan.

Other Comments by Spinoza

14. Comment #89484 by kaiser on November 20, 2007 at 11:22 pm

11. Comment #89473 by kaiser on November 20, 2007 at 10:22 pm
I would strongly suggest that you have a paypal option so a lot more people can donate (sending in checks will turn a lot of people off).

There is a paypal option.


I meant on the first site, not after clicking (there are always some people who get turned off giving their email adress)

I would put a "paypal button" on the first page

Other Comments by kaiser

15. Comment #89485 by Fanusi Khiyal on November 20, 2007 at 11:25 pm

Sam Harris is excellent as always - but it saddens me to see some of these questions dignified with an answer.

Spinoza, I'm not only a student, I'm an unemployed student. I am still paying every month.

Who are you trying to convince anyway?

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

16. Comment #89486 by theantitheist on November 20, 2007 at 11:47 pm

Now I was one of the first to request more info and to believe that the publishers and companies related and profiteering from her could chip together the costs, I'm also reluctant for the same reasons as Peter K (who I believe has a valid reason to donate his money elsewhere, she does presumably have a comfortable live style, though I recognize this was not always the case and she well deserves it for her hard work in the face of adversity) and also Spinoza.

However I'm now going to use some twisted logic that a Mormon would be proud of.

Bill Gates, who could be one of the wealthy benefactors (see Sponza) has given a shit load of cash to Africa to help relieve malaria and HIV etc.; as such since he's doing that it means I don't have to and can rationalize my decision to donate based on the fact that if he donated $15 less to Africa and gave that to Ayaan, then i could give mine to Africa. But since he has given it to Africa i can give it mine to Ayaan. Same total amount of money just coming from different bank account. It's all warped but I was brought up on Danger mouse and Monty Python so what the hell. Plus I always have to go for the under dog.

Other Comments by theantitheist

17. Comment #89487 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 11:47 pm

Thank you Sam Harris for this explanation, which proves once again that there is a difference between rationalists and the religious. We asked for answers and we go them.

PeterK:

I just spent the last thread protecting people with dissenting views, I'm not going to tell you to shut up or to exclaim "Shame on you". Just as well as I don't think you have any shame or indeed that you will shut up. I will however tell you that your words in here and in the previous thread are mean and your claims seem unfounded.


17. Comment #89485 by Fanusi Khiyal

Again with this? If the guy says he can't afford it he can't afford it. Please don't try and shame him into paying. I don't want my proud money to sit with shamed money. I'm funny that way.

Other Comments by SilentMike

18. Comment #89490 by nothing on November 21, 2007 at 12:17 am

 avatarPeterK,

I consider the non-majority opinion to be invaluable as it gives every "free-thinking" person a moment to make sure they are not just following the crowd. For this reason, a well-argued dissenting opinion is often a necessity.

Still, I'm genuinely confused by your comment: (is it meant to be an argument, a sexist joke... ?)

3. Comment #89456 by PeterK on November 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Sam:

...now whisper into her ear "You pay for your own bedclothes, darling--just like everyone else in this world does"


Other Comments by nothing

19. Comment #89496 by Johan on November 21, 2007 at 12:46 am

I don't want to reduce this very important matter to mere economics and calculations, but to all the Europeans on this site, remember that the Euro- Dollar exchange rate is very strong right now in favor of the Euro.
As a freelancing musician I don't have the luxury of knowing when my next salary is coming in. Nevertheless, the time is right to contribute to Ayan's security, from an ideological standpoint as well as an economic.

Cheers,
Johan

Other Comments by Johan

20. Comment #89508 by fee_fur on November 21, 2007 at 1:22 am

I dont want to spoil wat is obviously a very well intentioned cause, but i just want to adres somthing.
The whole reason the netherlands are not willing to pay for ayaan's protection in the US is because the US government has deamed her to be not in any threat within the United States. Now if that is true that is another question. but the Dutch government has also given her extra time for providing her own security. and I'm sorry sam but as far as I know ayaans income doesn't only come from her books. In the US she also works for a conservative think tank. as presumably well paid job since they also advice bush. She has considerable influence and must have a golden rolodex of contacts. Now i'm dutch myself and not a fan of the current government. far from it so any critisism is more then welcome. however it does need to be just. And I feel that ayaan has been treated very fairly. And i don't want to stop anyone from donating their money. Please do but i feel that this has to be pointed out.

Other Comments by fee_fur

21. Comment #89515 by nothing on November 21, 2007 at 1:37 am

 avatarJust wanted to thank you Sam for answering our questions.

Other Comments by nothing

22. Comment #89517 by brainsys on November 21, 2007 at 1:40 am

I have to say that I feel very uncomfortable about this appeal and the opprobium heaped upon those who dissent. We must not let this become a religious war.

I think most of us, on reflection, have to admit that giving charitably is largely driven on emotional grounds. Charities know this and have to push our emotional buttons if they are to succeed in doing good. Inevitably Sam is doing the same. And succeeding with a high proportion of posters here.

I see attempts at rationalisations. I too have rationalisations the other way. Primarily that giving is to both improve and save innocent lives. In crude body count terms $10/month given to Oxfam is going to save/enhance many lives. Diverting to this cause may possibly save a life but certainly cost many more.

The arguement that this life is worth more than an anonymous life saved on a continent far away I find sick. However, the one thing I value more than life is truth. The memory of book burnings particulary hits my buttons. Authors are in a special position here. I'm right behind Salman in defending his work. I guess, as a UK taxpayer I'm probably funding part of his protection, However brave as Salman is - he is no braver and no more at risk than my parents generation who mostly could not write great books but could go out on the battlefield to defeat the book burners.

Yep - the sharp minds here can see my arguements are at most very mushy. But they too should carefully examine their own. Be sure the driving force is not akin to those CO2 hogs who spend a few quid offsetting instead of themselves getting into the action. Otherwise you are just paying for someone else to dodge your bullet.

Other Comments by brainsys

23. Comment #89523 by mmurray on November 21, 2007 at 2:08 am

 avatar

as presumably well paid job s


$2 mil a year, where can I join :-)

Seriously I understood she was a research scholar

http://www.aei.org/scholars/filter.all,scholarID.117/scholar.asp

I doubt she gets paid much more than a research scholar at an academic institution.


The arguement that this life is worth more than an anonymous life saved on a continent far away I find sick


The argument isn't about the relative worth of lives. But I think her being killed by a Jihadist will be devasting to the cause of freedom in a way that the 20 or 30 deaths that happened since I started typing this have not been. In a way that my death would not be.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

24. Comment #89524 by Nighttripper on November 21, 2007 at 2:13 am

 avatarA response to the questions! Must say I didn't expect it. I'm not completely convinced by the answers but I am happy that the questions which the article raised are being adressed.

I'm doing a one time donation for the joy of seeing the questions taken seriously...


Other Comments by Nighttripper

25. Comment #89527 by Steven Mading on November 21, 2007 at 2:22 am

Hey, the login finally works again so I can comment (I was a victim of the login problem that's been going around so I couldn't comment on this article before).

This is NOT a fund for promoting one person over another, or for saying that Ayan's life is worth more than other nameless people's lives. It's a fund for promoting the right to be honest even when the honest things you say are disliked.. It's a fund for promoting the right to shout "the emperor has no clothes" instead of having to join in the lie with everyone else around you.

And that right, when used, DOES result in saving the lives of people. Ayan speaks for womens' rights in a way that I'd like to believe will result in a reduction in deaths down the road.

I'd managed ot avoid the PayPal thing for a long time, but this fund was the first thing that made be knuckle under and finally set up with PayPal.

Other Comments by Steven Mading

26. Comment #89530 by brainsys on November 21, 2007 at 2:44 am

Michael wrote: "But I think her being killed by a Jihadist will be devasting to the cause of freedom in a way that the 20 or 30 deaths that happened since I started typing this have not been."

I suggest the facts prove otherwise. She was quite unknown outside Holland before Theo's execution. Dead (wo)mens books/films seem to have so much power. Sadly martyrs are good news for almost any cause.

Indeed it is tempting to pay the $10 to avoid this painful elevation of our cause.

Frankly I'm shocked that you think the possible loss of this one person more important than 20 or 30 unknowns. She has some money and many influential friends to enable her to hide from the assassins. Not complete protection but a darned lot more than the several (hundred?) thousand who can't run from the killers in Darfur.

But there again aren't we both letting our emotions perhaps overpower what should be a clear thinking oasis?

Other Comments by brainsys

27. Comment #89534 by Newton30 on November 21, 2007 at 3:00 am

 avatarI still don't agree with this, and I find it a little disturbing that Sam Harris is pushing this like a clever marketer.

When someone has to courage to take a stand against the insanity of the muslim world, it earns a lot of admiration from peers. Is it right for the same person to ask the same peers to pay for security that comes with the courage? It kinda diminishes the admiration.

I find this passage to be particularly misleading:
The American Enterprise Institute, to its great credit and to the enduring shame of my fellow liberals, was the only think-tank to offer Ms. Hirsi Ali a job when her security concerns finally forced her to leave Holland.

Sam seems to imply that for an anti-muslim activist to be employed in a rabidly anti-muslim organisation is a terrible burden on said organisation and that organisation has to be applauded and praised for such courageous self-sacrifice. More likely, Mrs. Ali came to America only because of guarantees of employment from the AEI and possibly others, as well as the much reduced threat in the first place.

Other Comments by Newton30

28. Comment #89537 by mmurray on November 21, 2007 at 3:11 am

 avatar

Frankly I'm shocked that you think the possible loss of this one person more important than 20 or 30 unknowns


You misreading what I said. I said it would have a greater impact on the cause of freedom than those deaths or mine.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

29. Comment #89539 by brainsys on November 21, 2007 at 3:19 am

MMURRAY - you misread my response. Her assasination would have a great impact on the cause of freedom. Theo's execution elevated the cause. If you want to elevate the cause above all other then her assassination is a good if sick thing. So you don't give $10.

That is not the reason I am not giving $10. As before we have one life at risk with some defence and millions with none. I don't find that a hard choice. I like to think it is a ethical choice.

Other Comments by brainsys

30. Comment #89546 by BaronOchs on November 21, 2007 at 4:14 am

 avatarI've contributed. Perhaps not for any ethical reason, I just know how angry I would be if she was left without security and got killed.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

31. Comment #89547 by Matt7895 on November 21, 2007 at 4:21 am

 avatarSam Harris's rhetorical skill is persuading as always. Ok Sam, you've got me. I'll give $20 after Christmas when I get a bit of extra cash.

Other Comments by Matt7895

32. Comment #89555 by 35bluejacket on November 21, 2007 at 5:03 am

You descenting blokes are bringing questions up about Miss Ali's personal life of which you have little info. Not often will I let another person guide my judgement but in some areas it is necessary. From all I have read, watched and listened to Sam Harris, I find his character above reproach and he is certainly closer to the issue.

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

33. Comment #89559 by konquererz on November 21, 2007 at 5:25 am

 avatarWere this a christian in another country or this country, and their life was being threatened, in the same way, they would already have enough money to pay the security guards for ten years in advance. PeterK, you and anyone thinking like you should be ashamed that you would see these answers and still question it. Two million dollars is an aweful lot to shoulder every year and still pay for your travel and living expenses and such. Even if she makes three million dollars a year, or four million, your asking her to use at least half of her yearly income. Your telling me you can't suffer yourself to give ten dollars to help a worthy cause? In this case, its the thought that counts, and its your desire to help someone who is doing good work that is on the line here. If you can't give a measly ten dollars because your so suspicious, then just don't give. But don't try and talk everyone else out of it.

Those answers where more than enough for me. Its not allot of money, and I'm not going to go without for giving it. I would hate to think that of all the times I have told christians that atheists can get behind and support worthy causes every bit as well as christians, I have been lying.

Other Comments by konquererz

34. Comment #89560 by konquererz on November 21, 2007 at 5:28 am

 avatar"The question is this: is Ali our new Messiah?"

Bullshit! The question is "Does her cause deserve our loyalty?"

If your waiting for a messiah, perhaps you should convert to Judaism!

Its about the cause people, the spreading of reason and knowledge in a world increasingly dominated by religion! What is more important? Ali's speaking, or having ten more dollars in your pocket this month?

YOUR DISSENTING OVER TEN GOD DAMN DOLLARS!

Other Comments by konquererz

35. Comment #89561 by SilentMike on November 21, 2007 at 5:30 am

I have a modest suggestion. We've had a conversation/debate. Everybody got a say, and everybody made their decision. Lets stop talking about this. Surely there are other matters besides miss Hirsi-Ali. No one should "shut up" but it may be time to consider donating what we can (or not) moving on.

And again, thank you Sam Harris.

Other Comments by SilentMike

36. Comment #89566 by wednesdayguevara on November 21, 2007 at 5:51 am

Thank you, Sam!

Other Comments by wednesdayguevara

37. Comment #89580 by GSP on November 21, 2007 at 7:01 am

I know Sam Harris and others like to pretend that the only reason someone would seek to kill Ali is because they are Muslim. Being a political scientist, however, I am forced to reason with facts. And this is simply not true. This is not to say it doesn't play a part in their motivations, but in general the argument is simplistic, self-serving and naive.

That being said I am also forced to reckon with the fact that Ali has played a major role in creating the mess in the Middle East. Since the neocons have had their way extremism, suicide attacks, etc., have been on the rise. To quote Peter Bergen and Alec Reynolds: "the year 2003 [after the neocon attack on Iraq] saw the highest incidence of significant terrorist attacks in two decades, and then, in 2004, astonishingly, that number tripled."

So the question becomes, someone whom has taken an active part in creating a more violent world, killing, at least, tens of thousands of people, leading to the mutilations and torture of so many innocents, now wants my money to protect her?

You've made your bed, now lie in it.

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38. Comment #89581 by LookToWindward on November 21, 2007 at 7:01 am

nothing asked about PeterK's comments about bedclothes.

Answer: it is a snide reference to the phrase "You made the bed, you lie in it".

Individuals with high profiles /can/ generate the public will for change. You naysayers hide your heads in the sand and pretend that everyone's opinions and actions have equal impact if you like. Some of us have a better understanding of history.

edit: response to the above. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about what impact Ayaan's willingness to speak out about her faith is having, however moronic. Giving money is not compulsory. So give nothing.

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39. Comment #89583 by Dr Benway on November 21, 2007 at 7:05 am

 avatarGSP, I don't think AHA is a neocon anymore than Hitch is a neocon.

Is English not your first language?

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40. Comment #89587 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 7:15 am

I thought Hitch was a neocon?
This'll be good for 50 posts or so...

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41. Comment #89588 by GSP on November 21, 2007 at 7:21 am

Dr. Benway,

Can you explain your insult please?

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42. Comment #89589 by SilentMike on November 21, 2007 at 7:21 am

40. Comment #89580 by GSP

That being said I am also forced to reckon with the fact that Ali has played a major role in creating the mess in the Middle East.


What?!? What major role? What the hell is wrong with you? We in the middle east are perfectly capable of slaughtering each other without Hirsi Ali's help.

This hatred of Hirsi Ali is completely insane. Even if the neocons have caused this mess (and it is unfair to ignore the fact that the lion share of the blame should go to muslims) it is hardly due to Hirsi Ali. All Hirsi Ali did was tell the truth about the way women are treated in the islamic world, and if that helped the neocon cause at the time then that's too bad but it's still the truth, and it should have beed exposed.

Yeah I know I said we should stop talking about this, but I couldn't help it. Besides, it's OK to talk about Hirsi Ali. I just hope this topic doesn't become too common.

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43. Comment #89591 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 7:25 am

Has a comment been deleted?

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44. Comment #89592 by GSP on November 21, 2007 at 7:27 am

Mike,

Read up on the American Enterprise Institute.

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45. Comment #89595 by wednesdayguevara on November 21, 2007 at 7:42 am

GSP,

As you know, the American occupation of Iraq started in 2003. Hirsi Ali took a position with AEI in 2006. How exactly has she "played a major role in creating the mess in the Middle East," when she has only been with the conservative think tank for a year?

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46. Comment #89596 by GSP on November 21, 2007 at 7:50 am

wednesdayguevara

It's dangerous to assume the AEI does not still play a role in the Middle East.

Beyond this, the fact that Ali would join an organization whose stated goals (American imperialism) have failed so miserably in the policy arena, speaks volumes.

Not to get too much into psychological motivations here... pure speculation... but I wonder if having grown up in an imperialist-type environment led her, once she escaped it, to seek the secular version. What has been created, and what Ali is supporting, is US imperialism v. Islamic imperialism. There are no winners here.

Other Comments by GSP

47. Comment #89598 by ex-bahai on November 21, 2007 at 8:07 am

I am still a bit confused about the whole situation.

1. Some people are saying that the Dutch government will continue to provide protection upon her return to the Netherlands. Is this true or false? Source/reference will be great.

2. What is her real reasons to relocate to the US? Is it because she dislike living in the Netherlands or is it because of her new job? Or a mix of many reasons?


Provided that the Dutch government will continue to provide her with protection in the Netherlands. I see no moral obligation for us to pay for her security in the US.

If she dislike the Netherlands then she will have to deal with it. The Dutch government certainly does not have the responsibility to protect a Dutch citizen whom decides to relocate to a foreign nation based on her own will.

If she likes the US so much or likes her new job so much then she will have to weight in the risk. Either negotiate her personal protection as part of the deal with her new employer or find other means. Asking for donation is one way of doing it and I have no problem with that. However, I do feel that things are presented with a lot of marketing twist. In a place where free thinking and reasoning are being promoted, I do find it sad that many people seemed to have missed that.

Other Comments by ex-bahai

48. Comment #89602 by 35bluejacket on November 21, 2007 at 8:16 am

GSP:
Sir, I beg to differ. The Fourtenth century mentality will lose. Thats evolution. The only way that Islam has made progress is in backward stone age countries. And and the argument made about responsibility can made both ways. The Arabramic religions, in their evil ignorance, have brought this on themselves. Oh, a course in 101 Logic might be helpful along with your political science.

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

49. Comment #89604 by GSP on November 21, 2007 at 8:31 am

35bluejacket:

Thanks for the insult. Thats two in a matter of a couple hours.

Perhaps you can answer me this question. Why the insult? I have not insulted you. For someone claiming that the "evil" (whatever that means) Abrahamic religions have brought "this" (what is this?) upon themselves seems to imply it is because of their arrogance.

I ask you, how do you differ from them? You too are arrogant.

Other Comments by GSP

50. Comment #89607 by mikee23 on November 21, 2007 at 8:32 am

Cheers PeterK, I was in two minds about donating but your postings helped me make up my mind to do so. Twat.

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