Tuesday, December 4, 2007 | Reason : Political | print version

Nurses Told to Turn Muslims' Beds to Mecca

by The Daily Express

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/27213/Nurses-told-to-turn-Muslims-beds-to-Mecca

bed

OVERWORKED nurses have been ordered to stop all medical work five times every day to move Muslim patients' beds so they face towards Mecca.

The lengthy procedure, which also includes providing fresh bathing water, is creating turmoil among overstretched staff on bustling NHS wards.

But despite the havoc, Mid- Yorkshire NHS Trust says the rule must be instigated whenever possible to ensure Muslim patients have "a more comfortable stay in hospital".

And a taxpayer-funded training programme for several hundred hospital staff has begun to ensure that all are familiar with the workings of the Muslim faith.

The scheme is initially being run at Dewsbury and District Hospital, West Yorkshire, but is set to be introduced at other hospitals in the new year.

It comes on the back of the introduction in some NHS hospitals last year of Burka-style gowns for Muslim patients who did not wish medical staff to see their face while operating or caring for them.

Last night critics slammed the procedure and claimed the NHS would be better off investing its resources in tackling killer superbugs such as C.diff and MRSA.

One experienced nurse working at Dewsbury said: "It would be easier to create Muslim-only wards with every bed facing Mecca than have to deal with this.

"Some people might think it is not that big a deal, but we have a huge Muslim population in Dewsbury and if we are having to turn dozens of beds to face Mecca five times a day, plus provide running water for them to wash before and after prayers, it is bound to impact on the essential medical service we are supposed to be providing.

"Although the beds are designed to be moved, the bays are not really suitable for having loads of beds moved around to face a different direction, and despite our best efforts it does cause disruption for non-Muslim patients."

The changes have been instigated by Dewsbury and District Hospital's chief matron, Catherine Briggs, after she held a series of consultation meetings with local Asian GPs, ethnic minority patients groups and Muslim chaplain Ilyas Dalal to find out what staff could do to further improve Muslim patients' experience of the NHS.

In accordance with the rules of Islam, Muslims are required to pray five times a day. The religion dictates they must wash themselves in running water prior to prayer and must be facing in the direction of Mecca while praying. Mecca, in Saudi Arabia, is revered as the birthplace of the prophet Mohammed, who was born around 570AD.

Turning beds so they face towards Mecca was a key proposal put forward during the hospital meetings, along with suggestions that Muslim women should only be seen by female doctors.

Although the Trust, which also oversees hospitals in Wakefield and Pontefract, could not guarantee women-only doctors, they agreed that "wherever possible" specific patient requests would be carried out.

Mrs Briggs said: "Some of our former Muslim patients suggested that a more informed understanding of the Islamic cultures would help staff to further improve their service."

Last night Conservative MP David Davies said: "Hospitals should be concentrating on stopping the spread of infections than kow-towing to the politically correct brigade.

"If the need for fresh running water is so great then perhaps family members could be on hand to assist the already overworked medical staff."

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1. Comment #93971 by RascoHeldall on December 4, 2007 at 2:03 pm

OK. You nearly had me there. Nearly.

Still, bit early for April Fools' gags, isn't it?

Other Comments by RascoHeldall

2. Comment #93974 by Goldy on December 4, 2007 at 2:10 pm

Could give them teddy bears for comfort ;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

3. Comment #93975 by justdust on December 4, 2007 at 2:11 pm

They must really miss their bingo.

Other Comments by justdust

4. Comment #93977 by alexmzk on December 4, 2007 at 2:12 pm

a large part of making people better involves psychological care, surely. it may be unwittingly selfish on the part of Muslim patients, but surely it's the nurses' duty to make sure the patients are well? i imagine not being allowed to pay homage to yr patron deity would make a lot of patients feel worse?

Other Comments by alexmzk

5. Comment #93978 by Goldy on December 4, 2007 at 2:14 pm

I think you can be exempt from all this if you are ill. Ask any decent Islamic "scholar". Just poor application of Islamic laws and over the top concerns which help alienate a group of people.
Edit - and another media dig at a religion reeling under controversy (cartoons, teddy bears, Qatif woman...)

Other Comments by Goldy

6. Comment #93984 by Northern Bright on December 4, 2007 at 2:23 pm

The time, money and sheer energy that are spent pandering to these ridiculous beliefs - what an almighty waste.

It's time we all got serious about insisting that religion is a purely personal matter, and that if people want to pursue it, then they must do so with their own resources - like any other interest or hobby - and not at the expense or other inconvenience of the taxpayer.

Other Comments by Northern Bright

7. Comment #93989 by notsobad on December 4, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Your tax money at work.

Other Comments by notsobad

8. Comment #93990 by clodhopper on December 4, 2007 at 2:29 pm

What is 'fresh' running water exactly?

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9. Comment #93993 by Mercurius on December 4, 2007 at 2:33 pm

It as an almighty waste of time and taxpayers money when surely concentration should be on eradicating superbugs from wards and improving the strained NHS infrastructure.

Hospital staff have enough work to do without kowtowing to the dictates of manmade religions!

Other Comments by Mercurius

10. Comment #93998 by Steve Wrathall on December 4, 2007 at 2:44 pm

How about Muslims launching samples of meccan soil into orbit on a fleet of satellites. That way there'll always be sufficient samples of the holy city to catch the telepathic projections of the ummah whichever way they're facing.

Other Comments by Steve Wrathall

11. Comment #93999 by Nick Good on December 4, 2007 at 2:54 pm

The NHS would do better to spend their time and resources to ensure that their Muslim physicians are sticking to the spirit of their Hippocratic oath, and are not planning to self-detonate in airport lobbies.

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12. Comment #94001 by Spinoza on December 4, 2007 at 3:05 pm

In accordance with the rules of Islam, Muslims are required to pray five times a day.

NOT IF THEY'RE SICK!

... this is why we should all study religion...

The NHS are obviously scared of pissing people off...

Of course, in this case, it's absolutely ridiculous since Islam DOESN'T require sick people to pray.

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13. Comment #94006 by steveroot on December 4, 2007 at 3:15 pm

I'm with #1: The Onion really outdoes itself at times!

Good thing this isn't happening in the good ol' U.S. of litigious A. Some non-muslim patient would be inconvenienced (even DIE) because of the misdirected efforts of the over-worked nursing staff. Imagine then the lawsuit that would ensue! (No pun intended, though not bad!)

Meanwhile, here's an opportunity for an elegant comparative clinical trial: turn *all* the beds and see if the muslim patients do better than their non-muz fellow patients. Surely there's grant money available for this(?).
Steve

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14. Comment #94016 by Janus on December 4, 2007 at 3:27 pm

I'm curious to see if anyone here disagrees with the following statement:

No public institution should use any of its ressources to make accommodations for cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, or any beliefs which are not supported by evidence.

Other Comments by Janus

15. Comment #94023 by Goldy on December 4, 2007 at 3:35 pm

When in doubt, go to the source
http://www.midyorks.nhs.uk/News/Hospital+staff+develop+cultural+understanding.htm

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16. Comment #94027 by drive1 on December 4, 2007 at 3:44 pm

I just had a vision of a rope and pulley system .. one quick tug from matron and all the beds spin in the required direction.

Yes, a quick tug from matron is the answer. Or, how about tying one end of the rope to an apostate or homosexual fellow, and heaving them out of the window? Of course you'd have to be on the first floor or higher, or the beds wouldn't be spun far enough.

ps. Goldy wins 5 stars for being sensible, which is possibly a good thing.

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17. Comment #94029 by Bonzai on December 4, 2007 at 3:47 pm

Janus,

As you may expect I disagree. :-)

While what happens here is stupid and has gone way overboard, there is a case to be made that hospitals should make some allowance to accommodate cultural beliefs if it has health benefits. After all wellness is also partly psychological. A comfortable environment can help in speeding up recovery. We are dealing with people here and the evidence is that people are irrational beings.

Whether anything or what should be done has to be evaluated based on the trade off of supposed health benefits and the availability of resources. I don't agree that we should get out of our way to accommodate any and all cultural practices just because some groups demand it loudly enough or for the purpose of PC "cultural sensitivity" without any tangible health benefit,--which seems to be the case here, but I wouldn't say it shouldn't be done under all circumstances.

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18. Comment #94033 by Mark Till on December 4, 2007 at 3:54 pm

They're lucky some patients don't worship the Karma Sutra. Then they would be overstretched.

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19. Comment #94034 by Goldy on December 4, 2007 at 3:54 pm

From the comments (and blimey, aren't the BNP getting popular!)

POSSIBLY A WRONG MISINTERPRETATION
04.12.07, 7:34pm

Check it out here:

http://www.midyorks.nhs.uk/News/Hospital+staff+develop+cultural+understanding.htm

From the mid-Yorks NHS

"Changes that the hospital has already made for their Muslim patients include:

* Positioning the beds of very ill Muslim patients to face Mecca if requested by the patient
* Providing shower facilities for patients, as well as bathing facilities
* Providing halal meal options for patients.

The bed positioning appears to relate to requests from very ill patients (or their relatives), rather than a general rule for all muslims. Having nursed in the NHS for many years, I would say that it is not normally possible to start re-positioning beds within main wards or side wards. For a start-off, the access and position of resuscitation equipment, and of an oxygen supply, together with the proximity of other patients (a few feet away), together with the small size of side wards determines that there is generally only one way to position a bed. If facing Mecca is more important than quality medical/nursing care, then surely it would be sensible to ask that the family nurse the patient at home.

Every hospital that I have ever worked in has both showers and baths, so it seems odd that this is suggested as a special deal for muslims. Re Halal meals, as this is not an essential part of a dietary/clinical regime, unlike e.g. a low protein or a low-fat diet, then I would suggest that such patients, if unwilling to accept meat killed by the usual (humane) slaughter method, be asked to choose vegetarian dishes, or have relatives bring food in from home (although, understandably, this would have to be cold, as reheating of food on the wards, or in staff kitchens, is not allowed.

I would be rather more concerned that nurses are being removed from wards to undergo "workshops" to increase their understanding of muslims. If understanding faith is so important, then when are staff likely to see Christian, Hindu and Sikh workshops in their hospitals?

As to the irrationality of humans...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071204/tod-italy-religion-offbeat-bf135d8_1.html

Other Comments by Goldy

20. Comment #94035 by Dr Benway on December 4, 2007 at 3:55 pm

But what of the feng shui?

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21. Comment #94039 by Goldy on December 4, 2007 at 3:58 pm

Well, there you are, Doc B - ANOTHER workshop to send the nurses to! Damn, they'll have no time for care by the time this is all done ;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

22. Comment #94040 by Janus on December 4, 2007 at 4:03 pm

Bonzai,

I thought you might. ;)

Your disagreement is a small one, as it only applies to certain minor accommodations in hospitals, so I don't want to debate this too much.

My objection is the slippery slope argument. After all, it's not necessarily a fallacy. There are some advantages to having a clearly defined rule that is not subject to interpretation. If you reformulate the statement in my previous post to be something like, "...or any beliefs which are not supported by evidence unless these accomodations demand very little ressources (which can be money, time, etc).", it's likely that the "very little" part will be abused by people who have been infected by the dogmas of multiculturalism and political correctness.

And I wouldn't care all that much if it was abused a bit, except that I think it's imperative that we stop indulging the ever-increasing demands of Muslim immigrants, for reasons I've mentioned in some of my other posts.

Other Comments by Janus

23. Comment #94045 by Corylus on December 4, 2007 at 4:15 pm

Janus said

I'm curious to see if anyone here disagrees with the following statement:

No public institution should use any of its ressources to make accommodations for cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, or any beliefs which are not supported by evidence.

Interesting question Janus :-)

How about psychiatric hospitals where some non-evidentiary beliefs are accommodated in order in give people the time and space to slowly and carefully recover (or learn to live with) whatever ails them?

Another scenario - two vegetarians in adjacent hospital beds. One doesn't want the beef burger because he dislikes the cruelty of the meat trade (evidence based reasoning). Another is a strict Hindu and thinks cows are sacred (non evidential). Who gets the nut cutlet? Neither, both??

I reckon you are demanding a standard of rationality that humans don't possess. Most of us, when tested, have a few psychological glitchs.

How about:

"Public institutions should only make use of any of their resources (to make accommodations for cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, or any beliefs which are not supported by evidence) when doing so is not detrimental to the service provided to other users."

The turning of the beds to Mecca is out for both of these statements.

(Edit: Bugger! Just seen your most recent post - looks like you were ready for someone demanding the above ;)

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24. Comment #94046 by Goldy on December 4, 2007 at 4:16 pm

That's OK, Janus - the NHS has, courtesy of Dr B, the perfect excuse. Feng Shui. It is hideously important to some. Can the wishes of one group impinge on the wishes of another? Maybe the disruption of FS by moving the beds will affect the recovery of another patient - is that ethical?
My wife works in Auckland City Council and she had to go out once to do a spot of interpreting and cultural explaining. Seems a woman was distraught because the lamp post they were putting outside her house was very bad feng shui. Poor woman was in tears (cynical westerners such as me would suggest maybe the lamp post and resale value were more intrinsically linked). Of course, the good wife was not that sympathetic - explaining to the woman that lamp posts had to be a certain distance apart and that was that (she's oh so diplomatic!). She did ask me later what i would have said - I mentioned that the woman's feng shui was northern hemisphere and due to the Coriolis effect the whole system is back to front in NZ. Wife has logged that into her mind and will use it in the future :-).
But back to the original point - when does one person's irrational demand take precedence on another person's? Not that there's too many feng shui practitioners in Dewsbury - they're probably all in the posher areas of Manchester, if I remember right.
Maybe this will be the satrt of "faith hospitals" springing up. Affected the schools. I can see it now - Bradford Royal Sharia Hospital.

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25. Comment #94051 by SomeDanGuy on December 4, 2007 at 4:31 pm

My religion requires that I have an expert physician standing next to my bed at all times, a steak dinner every night, and that I pay my bill in handfuls of jellybeans. Please accommodate or I will sue for religious discrimination and mental anguish.

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26. Comment #94054 by deviljelly on December 4, 2007 at 4:40 pm

First of all, although it may ruin my credibility, Nothern Bright... you're Hot!

Secondly, you have to place this in context. The story is fairly true, patients are periodically spun on the God rotisserie at tax payers expense and there is a training course for nurses in orienteering.

But One has to remember that this part of the most staunchly English county is >60% Muslim, the 7/7 bombers could tell you that, if they were not scattered to the winds that is.

Personally if I was asked to do such a thing I would insist on my right to refuse to perform this clearly religious act as I was an atheist... as similarly the courts would not force a Muslim to be a bacon taster or a Hindu a burger flipper.

So these poor indoctrinated torn and troubled western Muslims would be forced to have separate spinning wings in hospitals, doors locked to "outsiders" increasingly Muslim doctors and staff....

.... all of this to hang on to a religion (read culture) that they are rapidly losing. You see the flip side of the story is the stark reality of Muslim youth in this part of the UK is drink drugs, sex, violence and dissolutionment ... the usual product of a subtly discriminated imigrant population.

This is why they ( the American religious right and the Muslim west ) are fighting so hard for the little things.... because they are losing the big things.

Let them spin I say.... and hurry to Act II

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27. Comment #94067 by PrimeNumbers on December 4, 2007 at 5:20 pm

Carefully placed magnets will throw off Muslim Mecca pointing compasses so that they think their beds are already pointing in the "right" direction. I think placing said magnets outside Mosques after they've been built so that they're now in the wrong direction would be equally amusing.

Quite frankly though, if they want that kind of special treatment, teddy bears and all, they should damn well pay for it themselves in a private hospital or go for medical treatment elsewhere.

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28. Comment #94097 by Jack Rawlinson on December 4, 2007 at 6:52 pm

I wish I was a nurse. I'd turn the beds to face the nearest pork butchers.

Idiots.

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29. Comment #94159 by mr-zero on December 4, 2007 at 11:37 pm

OVERWORKED nurses have been ordered to stop all medical work five times every day to move Muslim patients' beds so they face towards Mecca.

Okay - this is ridiculous but it is the Express. Look at the original source and it only says that the bed should be aligned with Mecca if requested. You only need do this once, why would you keep moving it back. For those outside the UK, the Express is a poisonous xenophobic rag which talks bollocks from cover to cover.
Z

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30. Comment #94162 by zoltix on December 4, 2007 at 11:45 pm

Every time I read these 'pointing at Mecca' rituals, it reminds me of the calculations we did in our maths department. You only have to be an inch out when you line yourself up and your prayer goes wooshing past Mecca. In the UK, muslims only have to be a degree or two misaligned and they can miss the sacred stone by hundreds of miles.

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31. Comment #94164 by Veronique on December 4, 2007 at 11:51 pm

Can't help myself:-) Cop this from the comments at the Daily Express:

A RESPONSE FROM THE HEALTH TRUST TO MY COMPLAINT!

05.12.07, 1:41am

I sent a complaint to the Health Trust and quite swiftly received the following reply - needless to say it is a denial and full of PC explanations!

Here goes it:

"A number of media have today ran entirely inaccurate stories claiming that we have ordered staff to move Muslim patients' beds to face towards Mecca. This has stemmed from a positive press release that the Trust issued about appropriate routine training that is being provided to help develop cultural understanding.

"Our statement has been wrongly interpreted. The Muslim Moulana at Dewsbury and District Hospital is holding internal workshops for nurses to help develop their cultural understanding. Nurses are not being removed from their duties to move patients' beds towards Mecca. Moving patients' beds for prayer five times a day has not been suggested as part of this workshop and staff have not been ordered to do this.

"In the context of responding to requests from patients and families, particularly when faced with a very ill patient, it is entirely reasonable that nurses consider all practical steps to meet a patient's cultural or religious needs. This may include adjusting the position of the bed, or escorting the patient to the chapel or faith centre.

"If you need further information, please do not hesitate to contact me."

Thank you
Kind regards,

Emma Scales
External communications manager
The Mid Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust"

• Posted by: Robertocarlo • Report Comment

Cheers
V

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32. Comment #94167 by mr-zero on December 5, 2007 at 12:02 am

Veronique,

I thought the health trust sounded perfectly reasonable. Given that some people believe in sky fairies, why not make them happy and comfortable while they are ill? The story in the Express is, as you would expect, overblown nonsense. The trust is simply trying to make its patients comfortable. Really - nothing wrong with that.
This kind of story is simply pandering to the right wing nutters, we should be ignoring it not getting all worked up about it.

Z

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33. Comment #94172 by RascoHeldall on December 5, 2007 at 12:20 am

So it was a wind-up then, more or less.

Phew.

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34. Comment #94188 by sornord on December 5, 2007 at 1:37 am

Meaningless rituals = More stupidity...will it never end?

Reminds me of when I was assigned to Medan, Indonesia over 20 years ago. We had a maid, whom I asked if she was Muslim. She replied in pigeon English that she was. I asked if she really prayed to Mecca five times a day and again she said yes. I then asked, "Which way is Mecca?" She said she didn't know so she always bows toward the airport that was near our house.

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35. Comment #94190 by Northern Bright on December 5, 2007 at 1:43 am

Thanks for that, Veronique. I should have known better than to put my trust in the Express. Though it was on the BBC news website too - honestly, is nothing sacred? ;-)

It sounds as if the workshops to improve cultural understanding are voluntary - in which case, fair enough. Though I have to add that the Muslim Moulana might like to consider running some workshops to improve Muslims' cultural understanding of Britain and traditional British values whilst they're at it.

The Trust's reply still leaves open the possibility that nursing staff will move beds to face Mecca if requested by the patient though. So if I was gravely ill and felt my mental and emotional wellbeing would be enhanced by having the Berlin Philharmonic come in to give me a live performance of Mozart's Clarinet Concerto, no doubt they'd do that too if I requested it. No? Ah well.

Prime Numbers - re your idea about the magnets. You are clearly a very bad person. And very funny indeed. :-)

Other Comments by Northern Bright

36. Comment #94193 by Tycho the Dog on December 5, 2007 at 1:48 am

Re Veronique, #94164

The media really ought to be held responsible for this kind of deliberately misleading reporting. It both panders to, and generates prejudice, and is pretty irresponsible, but unfortunately it's an effective way of selling newspapers. I mean, there are enough genuine things going on to get annoyed about without having to distort non-stories into examples of 'policitical correctness gone mad'.

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37. Comment #94210 by Vaal on December 5, 2007 at 3:10 am

Veronique .. welcome back.

I trust as a practising Jedi, that the nurses should know where to point my bed to Tatooine at all times.

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38. Comment #94214 by CJ22 on December 5, 2007 at 3:14 am

"Yes, a quick tug from matron is the answer."

You only get that in private hospitals

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39. Comment #94222 by celestial_T on December 5, 2007 at 3:42 am

Phew! I was just about to quote Kurt Russell in The Thing: "You've got to be fucking kidding" but I see that we should of course pay close attention to the source of these stories.

However much it has been exagerated tho, it seems most of us would be ready to accept this sorry tale - as reported in the Express - as truth. What does that say about our society, or should we blame it all on hysterical media coverage?

Northern Bright - you are so right about pushing for religion (if people must) to be a purely personal matter, yet it's hard to see this ridiculous indulging of imaginary friends coming to an end.

PS it amused me to read the NHS trust spokeswoman (comment 31) speak of moving beds TOWARDS mecca, rather than merely adjusting their orientation. I can see them now, pushing those beds out into the hospital carpark...presumably a few extra feet closer makes a difference?

Other Comments by celestial_T

40. Comment #94223 by Mysturji on December 5, 2007 at 3:43 am

I'm convinced that this whole "face East while you bow and pray" business is just so that they can all give the West a collective moon 5 times a day.
In response, I suggest that airline pilots activate the "jobbie weetcha" whenever they fly over Mecca.

Other Comments by Mysturji

41. Comment #94244 by aquilacane on December 5, 2007 at 4:47 am

I'm thinking of starting my own personal religion. It goes like this:
1. It is forbiden to discuss any detail of the religion with any person, save these three points
2. It is believed that all religious rights claimed by all religions are the rights of the new religion
3. It is believed that every humans' rights are equal. What one person is entitled to, all people are entitled to.

So, with that said, I would ask them to face me toward the south and supply me with clean running water to splash on my face with, 5 times a day.

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42. Comment #94254 by BigBanger on December 5, 2007 at 5:22 am

I'm afraid I'm with the muslims on this one because so long as the nurses are moving all these beds around in hospitals somebody might take the initiative and actually clean underneath one. The power of prayer may indeed keep one safe from MRSA. Allah be praised.

Other Comments by BigBanger

43. Comment #94258 by steve99 on December 5, 2007 at 5:39 am

it seems most of us would be ready to accept this sorry tale - as reported in the Express - as truth.

Not me. It is a nastly little rag. It makes the Daily Mail seem almost sane. Its ideal storyline would be "Gay immigrants in Diana conspiracy".

Other Comments by steve99

44. Comment #94259 by Matt7895 on December 5, 2007 at 5:40 am

This is infuriating. Our NHS is overworked and underfunded as it is, without also having to care for religious people's 'needs'. If they want to face Mecca it's their own damn problem, it shouldn't be the nurses.

Other Comments by Matt7895

45. Comment #94282 by stephenray on December 5, 2007 at 6:41 am

Can I just ask everyone to remember how reliable is the UK media?
In the 1980s, stories appeared in - well, at least all the UK tabloids, possibly all UK national papers - about an inner london council (Haringey? Brent?) where the authority had ordered that the nursery ryhme 'Baa-baa-black-sheep' was to be banned from local schools. The head of the authority was Bernie Grant, a black man with strong left leanings who despised tabloid journalist (that's three strikes, then!) and a huge hate figure for the right wing press of the day.
Of course, everyone went off like fireworks rockets - 'ridiculous' 'political correctness gone mad' - and so forth.
Little by little it turned out that it was a hoax. The hoaxer even went public. One newspaper was sold the story, didn't check it, all the other newspapers read it in the first edition and added it to their later editions, etc.
Even now, you'll find people that still think it happened.
Whatever you read in a paper, WAIT! See what happens over the next few days, see what other journalists say, and particularly the BBC (despite everything, still one of the most reliable sources in the world). Nowadays, check the blogosphere too.

Other Comments by stephenray

46. Comment #94312 by flobear on December 5, 2007 at 9:01 am

Great work Veronique.

Still, I see no problem with having a bed rotating service if a patient wishes it. They should just be made to pay for it.

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47. Comment #94314 by celestial_T on December 5, 2007 at 9:05 am

hi steve99
re your comment 43: anything that makes the DM look almost sane should certainly be treated with caution! maybe the fact that we are ready to believe these things says more about us? is there a willingness to believe these stories so that we can enjoy feeling ever more put-upon? On the other hand, just when you think you're over-reacting an incident like Muhammed Bear comes along...

Re media reporting, perhaps we could have some kind of rating system here to convey the reliability of various sources. Certainly there must be forest-loads of non-UK publications whose credibility I wouldn't be in a position to judge. An ARS (Academic-Reasonable-Scurrilous) Rating perhaps?

Other Comments by celestial_T

48. Comment #94324 by faouloki on December 5, 2007 at 10:00 am

I must beg that the owners of this site check sources before they post articles. I know that this site is based in the US, but please be aware that articles from uk tabloids and opinion rags such as the express and the mail should be treated with EXTREME caution.

That said, don't Muslims have to prostrate themselves to pray as well? Maybe the beds should have a function that, once turned to Mecca, flings them out onto the ground.

Other Comments by faouloki

49. Comment #94333 by Northern Bright on December 5, 2007 at 10:46 am

Steve99:

Its ideal storyline would be "Gay immigrants in Diana conspiracy".

Oh my god! They weren't, were they?

By the way, don't you mean "Gay atheist immigrants in Diana conspiracy"?

;-)

Other Comments by Northern Bright

50. Comment #94370 by Goldy on December 5, 2007 at 1:45 pm

Stephenray, the baa baa blacksheep story, I remember it well!
This came out recently here in the Antipodes
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071115/wl_asia_afp/lifestyleaustraliachristmasoffbeat
I always like to see what the source of the story is. Even the teddy bear thing had banners pre-printed and seemingly happy, smiling men calling out for the teacher's murder. After all, how hard is it to give some blokes some money, a bus ride somewhere and tell them to scream and shout for a bit - money for old rope, I'd have thought.
There does seem to be a strong anti-Muslim slant in the western media of recent. As one person said, there doesn't seem to be as big an outcry when a Christian or other religious minority is persecuted...have a gander http://www.freedom-now.org/masih.php (and this is in Pakistan - one of our "buddies", along with Saudi Arabia)

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