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Fox: 'Atheist Outrage' over holiday 'Tree of Knowledge'
therawstory.com
Thanks to David for the link.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Fox_Outrage_over_Atheist_holiday_tree_1203.html
Fox: 'Atheist Outrage' over holiday 'Tree of Knowledge'
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Fox & Friends launched a salvo in the War on Christmas Monday, attacking an atheist group's "tree of knowledge" erected in front of a Philadelphia courthouse alongside a creche and menorah, while ignoring a 32-foot tree dedicated to "commercial attraction" in the same public square.
The perky hosts objected because the Freethought Society of Great Philadelphia has set up a "Tree of Knowledge" as part of a seasonal display in front of the Chester County courthouse.
The center of the display is a 32-foot Christmas tree erected by the Chamber of Commerce. The president of the Chamber explained to the Philadelphia Inquirer that "this will be the 28th year in a row" for the display and that "we've always seen the tree as a commercial attraction."
A Christian creche and a Jewish menorah were added for the first time last year, and the Freethought Society asked to have its tree, which is decorated with the book covers of atheist works alongside the Bible and the Koran, included this year as well.
Margaret Downey, president of the Freethought Society, was invited by Fox News to debate regular Fox contributor Father Jonathan Morris about the display.
Downey began by rejecting Fox's suggestion that her group had pressured the commissioners into including them by threatening to prevent them from having any display at all. "We asked the commissioners last year to designate the area in front of the courthouse as a free speech zone," she stated. "And that enables everyone in the community to participate."
Father Jonathan's comments were frequently interrupted by Downey, but he appeared to be trying to make the point that he supports free speech but feels that Downey's group should have had the delicacy to refrain from exercising it.
"If we were living in anything but a 'free thought zone' in the United States of America, I would go with Margaret," he began. "But this is Christmas time, and to use ..."
"You do not own Christmas," Downey broke in. "You do not own the winter holiday."
"I don't think it's doing a service to that very good point of yours ... to sabotage a Christian holiday," Morris stated.
"Do you feel that intimidated?" Downey asked. "Do you feel so intimidated by our presence? Do you feel so intimidated that you can't even allow us to participate as a fellow citizen?"
"So many people who I work with on a daily basis, who are really struggling with faith, look and say, 'You know what? I'm embarrassed,'" said Morris. "Because you're an atheist, you're trying to say therefore we're going to sabotage what is a holiday, a religious holiday."
"You should not look at it as a sabotage," Downey responded. "Because your faith should be strong enough where anybody standing there with a question would not intimidate you."
This video is from Fox's Fox & Friends, broadcast on December 3, 2007.
Right click save file as
Par 1, 4.43 MB
Atheists' 'Tree of Knowledge' Display (Part I of II).mp4
Part 2, 7.48 MB
Atheists' 'Tree of Knowledge' Display (Part II of II).mp4
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Fox_Outrage_over_Atheist_holiday_tree_1203.html
Fox: 'Atheist Outrage' over holiday 'Tree of Knowledge'
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Fox & Friends launched a salvo in the War on Christmas Monday, attacking an atheist group's "tree of knowledge" erected in front of a Philadelphia courthouse alongside a creche and menorah, while ignoring a 32-foot tree dedicated to "commercial attraction" in the same public square.
The perky hosts objected because the Freethought Society of Great Philadelphia has set up a "Tree of Knowledge" as part of a seasonal display in front of the Chester County courthouse.
The center of the display is a 32-foot Christmas tree erected by the Chamber of Commerce. The president of the Chamber explained to the Philadelphia Inquirer that "this will be the 28th year in a row" for the display and that "we've always seen the tree as a commercial attraction."
A Christian creche and a Jewish menorah were added for the first time last year, and the Freethought Society asked to have its tree, which is decorated with the book covers of atheist works alongside the Bible and the Koran, included this year as well.
Margaret Downey, president of the Freethought Society, was invited by Fox News to debate regular Fox contributor Father Jonathan Morris about the display.
Downey began by rejecting Fox's suggestion that her group had pressured the commissioners into including them by threatening to prevent them from having any display at all. "We asked the commissioners last year to designate the area in front of the courthouse as a free speech zone," she stated. "And that enables everyone in the community to participate."
Father Jonathan's comments were frequently interrupted by Downey, but he appeared to be trying to make the point that he supports free speech but feels that Downey's group should have had the delicacy to refrain from exercising it.
"If we were living in anything but a 'free thought zone' in the United States of America, I would go with Margaret," he began. "But this is Christmas time, and to use ..."
"You do not own Christmas," Downey broke in. "You do not own the winter holiday."
"I don't think it's doing a service to that very good point of yours ... to sabotage a Christian holiday," Morris stated.
"Do you feel that intimidated?" Downey asked. "Do you feel so intimidated by our presence? Do you feel so intimidated that you can't even allow us to participate as a fellow citizen?"
"So many people who I work with on a daily basis, who are really struggling with faith, look and say, 'You know what? I'm embarrassed,'" said Morris. "Because you're an atheist, you're trying to say therefore we're going to sabotage what is a holiday, a religious holiday."
"You should not look at it as a sabotage," Downey responded. "Because your faith should be strong enough where anybody standing there with a question would not intimidate you."
This video is from Fox's Fox & Friends, broadcast on December 3, 2007.
Right click save file as
Par 1, 4.43 MB
Atheists' 'Tree of Knowledge' Display (Part I of II).mp4
Part 2, 7.48 MB
Atheists' 'Tree of Knowledge' Display (Part II of II).mp4
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Posted: Thursday, December 6, 2007 | PermalinkComments 1 - 48 of 48 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #94556 by quill on December 6, 2007 at 1:33 am
I think this kind of thing is counterproductive to the public image of freethought.But if you want to watch the interview, it's on You-Tube, you know:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9f3C7NDbcU
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0JmI-cPOc
Other Comments by quill
3. Comment #94558 by eric.malitz on December 6, 2007 at 1:38 am
free thought IS under siege. Why didnt she point out one time that everything associated with christmas is pagan?Why shouldnt she 'thumb her nose' at christmas?
Why is this even news?
A gay priest and fox news alliance wishing everyone a merry christ-mas and 'happy' hannakah (wheres kwanza in there, where's all the harvest holidays??)
It is ironic, sickening, and pathetic on every level.
Other Comments by eric.malitz
4. Comment #94559 by HoyaSaxa87 on December 6, 2007 at 1:40 am
why did i just wait five minutes of my life watching that? oh fox news, now i have to hate you even moreOther Comments by HoyaSaxa87
5. Comment #94569 by Mark Till on December 6, 2007 at 1:58 am
I must admit cringing a bit when I saw those books dangling from its branches. I agree with the sentiment but I'm not sure it came across so well.A better message might've been to point out that Christmas really isn't a Christian festival - Jesus not having been born on the 25th December, the iconography mostly borrored from paganism, "Mithras", etc., etc.
This was covered in a Christmas episode of Stephen Fry's "QI" in the UK.
Other Comments by Mark Till
6. Comment #94577 by Nick Good on December 6, 2007 at 2:12 am
My, that priest is rather 'camp'!Yul is a pagan ceremony held around the Winter solstice (Northern Hemisphere) purloined by Christians.
Other Comments by Nick Good
7. Comment #94579 by Verylee on December 6, 2007 at 2:16 am
Whatever atheists say or do they are going to be pilloried, so they "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb". What else would one expect from a bunch of godless heathens anyway!! Other Comments by Verylee
8. Comment #94581 by irate_atheist on December 6, 2007 at 2:26 am
7. Comment #94579 by Verylee -Baa!!
Other Comments by irate_atheist
9. Comment #94583 by Philip1978 on December 6, 2007 at 2:33 am
"Do you feel that intimidated?" Downey asked. "Do you feel so intimidated by our presence? Do you feel so intimidated that you can't even allow us to participate as a fellow citizen?""So many people who I work with on a daily basis, who are really struggling with faith, look and say, 'You know what? I'm embarrassed,'" said Morris.
"Because you're an atheist, you're trying to say therefore we're going to sabotage what is a holiday, a religious holiday.
This says it all for me- People are struggling their faith we need to brainwash them some more, how dare you give them ideas and the right to think for themselves?!! Oh and why are you insulting MY religion, it deserves more respect cos its HOLY!
BAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Thank you George! (Stephen Fry, Blackadder goes Forth)
Philip
Other Comments by Philip1978
10. Comment #94585 by Northern Bright on December 6, 2007 at 2:48 am
It's rather telling, isn't it, that Christians should see the promotion of knowledge as an outrage against their religion.As it happens, I was reading The Varieties of Scientific Experience by Carl Sagan just this morning, and there's a lovely bit in that, which seems particularly apt in the context of this article:
We have Ten Commandments in the West. Why is there no commandment exhorting us to learn? "Thou shalt understand the world. Figure things out." There's nothing like that. And very few religions urge us to enhance our understanding of the natural world. I think it is striking how poorly religions, by and large, have accommodated to the astonishing truths that have emerged in the last few centuries.
Other Comments by Northern Bright
11. Comment #94588 by Quetzalcoatl on December 6, 2007 at 2:57 am
I hope there are no apples on this "Tree of Knowledge".Lest we forget the fate of Adam and Eve.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
12. Comment #94589 by epeeist on December 6, 2007 at 2:59 am
Comment #94569 by Mark TillTerry Pratchett got pretty close to the original north European festivities in the "Hogfather". Have a glance at Wikipedia for "Yule" and the "Boars Head Carol"
A better message might've been to point out that Christmas really isn't a Christian festival - Jesus not having been born on the 25th December, the iconography mostly borrored from paganism, "Mithras", etc., etc.
Other Comments by epeeist
13. Comment #94590 by Northern Bright on December 6, 2007 at 3:01 am
I hope there are no apples on this "Tree of Knowledge".
Lest we forget the fate of Adam and Eve.
Hmmm. I can't help feeling it's no coincidence that, in the eyes of the Abrahamic religions, it was the desire for knowledge that brought all the trouble into the world. They always have favoured keeping people in ignorance.
Other Comments by Northern Bright
14. Comment #94592 by Quetzalcoatl on December 6, 2007 at 3:04 am
Hmmm. I can't help feeling it's no coincidence that, in the eyes of the Abrahamic religions, it was the desire for knowledge that brought all the trouble into the world. They always have favoured keeping people in ignorance
Indeed. The ignorant are easier to control, of course.
The article itself goes to show just how insecure some believers are about their faiths. If they can't trust worshippers to look at a tree, or watch a movie, without their faith being stripped away, perhaps it says more about them than anyone else.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
15. Comment #94594 by Verylee on December 6, 2007 at 3:11 am
Don't let the creationists find out that the bible is hanging on the "tree of knowledge"!....That'll be it, the proof they've been looking for (again!), atheism is doomed!! Other Comments by Verylee
16. Comment #94596 by chbg21808 on December 6, 2007 at 3:14 am
I think this story is lightweight and I found it utterly boring.Why do theists believe that atheism equates with belief in nothing... lol.
Other Comments by chbg21808
17. Comment #94599 by stephenray on December 6, 2007 at 3:21 am
Oh boy.Kudos to quetlcoatl for his remark about apples and the tree of knowledge!
Now I have to dry out my keyboard.
On another note, I really hate it when people on TV and radio who I support and approve of are interrupted by other people who are debating them.
So I have to strongly disapprove when people I support are interrupting other people in the same way. If you can't take part in the programme without restraining yourself, or don't believe you'll get a fair crack of the whip, then don't accept the invitation.
It's really important. It's one of the reasons Mr Hitchens is at the bottom of my list of good atheist debaters (and why he is on the top of the list of the TV producers, since he makes for good ratings).
Other Comments by stephenray
18. Comment #94600 by Quetzalcoatl on December 6, 2007 at 3:27 am
It's really important. It's one of the reasons Mr Hitchens is at the bottom of my list of good atheist debaters
But you can overlook it to a certain extent because he generally makes very good points. If he was constanly interrupting just to spout drivel, that would be worse. But I take your point.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
19. Comment #94618 by notsobad on December 6, 2007 at 4:12 am
Gotta admit, Fox News and all their regular "commentators" make me laugh.Another funny part is that the priest has some biblical reference about it.
Other Comments by notsobad
20. Comment #94621 by Jestyr on December 6, 2007 at 4:30 am
Is it just me or shouldn't the priest be kicking up a fuss about the menorah? Especially given that this is 'Christmas Time'?Other Comments by Jestyr
21. Comment #94624 by phasmagigas on December 6, 2007 at 5:03 am
the whole christmas thing is so confusing.Here in america people shout 'happy holidays', in the UK people say 'merry christmas', when i see my family and friends this year I will say merry christmas despite i nor they being practicing christians or even non practicing, in fact they probably dont think about it atall, its simply become a way to get through the miserable winter with an excuse for some lights and drink. the brits take a far more relaxed view to the whole thing. Despite that you still get religious leaders on tv saying 'people forget what the real meaning of christmas is' and i wonder just what that is????
For the average secular brit (and perhaps for more americans than we realise) christmas is little more than nostalgia for childhood dressed up in a rather thin religious veneer.
UK schools tend to have christmas trees up and i suppose symbols of all the major faith festivals (fairs, fair)but its seen as a bit of fun and nobody really (i hope) gives a damn, and this is in schools that still have moring prayer, and nobody still gives a damn. America seems to strangely politicise everything or at the very least seem to force prescription onto things (ignoring the church/state separation for now). An example was over halloween I saw articles in local news papers that showed the schools recommendations for appropriate conduct/costumes/activities for kids in schools, eg one suggested that costumes shouldnt have a horrific theme. I got the feeling that its an attempt to pardown a festival that has somewhat religious/supernatural elements even if it means little more than eating sugar all day and holllowing out a pumpkin.
mere musings anyway...
Other Comments by phasmagigas
22. Comment #94629 by MuNky82 on December 6, 2007 at 5:33 am
Hmmm. I can't help feeling it's no coincidence that, in the eyes of the Abrahamic religions, it was the desire for knowledge that brought all the trouble into the world. They always have favoured keeping people in ignorance.
I honestly think that that was one of the intentions of the Garden of Eden legend. I sometimes post/say "Go sit naked in your garden" when I am having an impromptu debate with a faith-head.
Other Comments by MuNky82
23. Comment #94637 by Jack Rawlinson on December 6, 2007 at 6:09 am
Good for Downey, I say. I can't watch the video yet, but it sounds like she handled this well.This paranoid, desperate idea that this was "sabotage" of a Christian festival... how weak of them.
Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson
24. Comment #94645 by scottishgeologist on December 6, 2007 at 6:36 am
Phasmagigas - re Christmas trees. I just love it when they put these pagan symbols up in churches. Even evangie churches do it. And that amuses me even more.Just goes to show, what I have often suspected, esp about the evangies.. They CLAIM to believe one thing and be all "godly" and "bible believing" In practice, its another thing entirely.
But then, put on a Christmas show in church and you'll get lots of people in. Good for church funds.
Keep it austere and anti-pagan (ie biblical) and do you think they'll turn up?
Hypocrites the lot of them
Other Comments by scottishgeologist
25. Comment #94646 by PHackett on December 6, 2007 at 6:36 am
"We asked the commissioners last year to designate the area in front of the courthouse as a free speech zone"Umm .... I though the USA was a "free speech zone", no bureaucratic agreement required!
Other Comments by PHackett
26. Comment #94651 by glittergulch on December 6, 2007 at 6:48 am
Haha, does no one know that a "christmas" tree is a pagan symbol? Other Comments by glittergulch
27. Comment #94652 by glittergulch on December 6, 2007 at 6:54 am
HAPPY FESTIVUS! HAHAHAHAH!!!How did that get squeezed in at the end there? Holy crap. Well, we got the "airing of the grievances." Where are the "feats of strength?"
Other Comments by glittergulch
28. Comment #94661 by Philip1978 on December 6, 2007 at 7:32 am
Despite that you still get religious leaders on tv saying 'people forget what the real meaning of christmas is' and i wonder just what that is????I am with Bart Simpson on this, its the birth of Santa!
Philip
Other Comments by Philip1978
29. Comment #94662 by scottishgeologist on December 6, 2007 at 7:37 am
Ah Philip, that reminds me. Havent yet seen the sign "Jesus is the reason for the season" Only a matter of time....Any other sickening, mawkish cliches out there?
Yes I know "Christmas Time, Mistletoe and Wine, Children singing Christian rhyme..."
(puts 2 fingers down throat and chunders violently)
:-)
SG
Other Comments by scottishgeologist
30. Comment #94668 by Linda on December 6, 2007 at 8:07 am
Hi Margaret, Congratulations for keeping a cool head while that nitwit priest once again becomes hysterical as if shouting at you makes his pointlessness valid.Can we please as intellectually mature adults purge the superstitious myths from everything and celebrate the seasons based on science and nature? Every one of us no matter what colour our skin or ancestral origins experiences seasonal transitions. Who doesn't feel sluggish in the Northern Hemisphere at this time of year and tired due to the lack of sunshine hours? People share joy and look forward to the calendar day of the Winter Solstice (December 22) when light returns and images of spring and the garden offers something to look forward too. There is nothing supernatural about decorating the home with evergreens and enjoying festive parties. I live in Toronto and our City Hall puts up decorations that drain power stations under the banner of 'Festival of Light' while no religious symbols are displayed there. Hooray for Canadian common sense and dignity.
Frankly I can't understand how it is that a public place in a nation that claims to celebrate the separation of church and state would dare to display icons of emotional tyranny such as nativity scenes (never happened) to the Bah-Hanuka symbols. Would they get a bit upset if the Hindus asked for the inclusion of their good luck charm the swastika too?
Maybe next time get in some digs about mythology oh and Merry Mithras everyone:
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/12/merry_mithras.html
If honesty and intelligence could prevail then everyone would proclaim that Christmas is appropriated from natural practices.
Further would you Richard, Hitch & everyone else strongly interject when debating the nitwits that Atheists celebrate their families, are loved and do love. What outrageous liars the superstition.
Does anyone else cringe when hearing retail store loudspeakers proclaim that 'our saviour is born'?
Other Comments by Linda
31. Comment #94699 by ATH1 on December 6, 2007 at 9:22 am
OMG!Living in the UK I don't often see Fox News- only whey Sky News cuts into their feed during mass shooting sprees is the norm.
Sky, (the British satellite multi channel subscription service owned by Rupert Murdock & hence by Fox/ News Corp 'overall'), don't even show Fox news after midnight in their American news slot- they use the CBS nightly news I think.
So it's rare that I get to see their output.
Well I guess the Simpsons jokes RE: Fox are just the tip of the iceberg, (Simpsons being made by Fox of course!)
All I have to say is that I've never seen anything so 'energised'/ 'smiling through gnashing teeth & plastic smiles as I did from that slimy priest (Catholic?).
To all of our friends who live in America- your nation certainly shows us all the best & worst of humanity!
Can we please have just a little more best of please :)
I think it might perhaps be better to have this full on confrontational situation between faith-heads & non-believers then the veiled stance we have in the UK of a state sanctioned, all be it relative compared to the RCatholic church, quaint little old Church of England- which is in practise far more insidious an arrangement- all be it perhaps a nicer climate to live in on a day to day basis. Neither situation is of course ideal though.
Whenever I see an example of how totally slimy these people are, I am so totally relieved that I 'found' Atheism & the great community around it & I only regret that I wasn't given the option of exploring & destroying insidious faith a good few years earlier!!!! Shame, due to our impotent 'education' system that so many more young peoples lives will be retarded by the idiocy & deliberate attempt to keep them 'dull'.
How's it coming on those 'resources' for schools?
How about a direct internet campaign aimed at reaching teenagers with some proper 'Religious Education'.
I'm not talking about turning them into religious 'zealots'- but actually giving them some informed arguments that they can examine & make their decisions based upon- not just the totally inadequate 'totally non criticising' material to be found in UK Religious Education classes…? (As part of the Out Campaign?)
Good luck to you all & "Happy Whatever you want to call it!" :) – I hope you get lots of presents, eat far too much, manage to find something decent on television & that the dog doesn't eat your liquors! (Speaking from personal experience on that last one!)
Other Comments by ATH1
32. Comment #94700 by zbob on December 6, 2007 at 9:32 am
A few comments about the "tree of knowledge":If one reads the truly allegorical story of "creation" as espoused in Genesis literally then one can conclude that the Abrahamic "god" does not want humans to have knowledge of any type that challenges "god's" authority. But in interpreting the allegory, could the "tree of knowledge" represent the ability of humans to verbally conceptualise our experiences and to store that knowledge within our large brains? Did the evolution of our species allow us to create vivid conceptual images of the past, present and future as a survival technique in a world with bigger, stronger competition? Is not the knowledge of good and evil a manner by which intelligent, self-aware beings conceptualise their apparent reality and create cultural and societal well-being? Humans conceptualise their surroundings and phenomena in almost every moment of consciousness. Another necessary strategy for survival is the ability to distinguish one's self from other selves. Of course, other animals also seem to be able to distinguish their individual entities from other entities but to our knowledge, we may be the only animals to have evolved to the point of complex conceptual self reflection. (Genesis-they knew they were naked). But doesn't our false, complex creation of an illusory "self" separate each "individual" from the true nature of the universe. The allegory refers to our realisation of our ultimately illusory separateness from the ultimate oneness of the multiverse.
Other Comments by zbob
33. Comment #94702 by konquererz on December 6, 2007 at 9:51 am
I always get happy when christians get nervous. If they weren't nervous about the tree, it wouldn't have been on the news. The fact is that christians don't understand the concept that there no such thing as bad publicity. So the more publicity they give atheist, the more the message gets out there to christians that its okay to not believe. Hell, thats what we need, more christians to know its okay to say "this shit is retarded!". Other Comments by konquererz
34. Comment #94715 by AlexAtheist on December 6, 2007 at 10:17 am
What's the deal with the obviously gay "Father" Morris? I want to tell him "Calm down, Mary! It's ok to be gay now." :-) Other Comments by AlexAtheist
35. Comment #94719 by Bonzai on December 6, 2007 at 10:33 am
What's the deal with the obviously gay "Father" Morris? I want to tell him "Calm down, Mary! It's ok to be gay now." :-)
Alex, what do you mean by "obviously gay". I don't see why that is supposed to be an insult, it seems to be intended to be one. Care to elaborate?
Other Comments by Bonzai
36. Comment #94728 by Matt7895 on December 6, 2007 at 10:56 am
"Living in the UK I don't often see Fox News- only whey Sky News cuts into their feed during mass shooting sprees is the norm.Sky, (the British satellite multi channel subscription service owned by Rupert Murdock & hence by Fox/ News Corp 'overall'), don't even show Fox news after midnight in their American news slot- they use the CBS nightly news I think.
So it's rare that I get to see their output."
Actually you can get Fox News as a channel on Sky Digital
Other Comments by Matt7895
37. Comment #94729 by Quetzalcoatl on December 6, 2007 at 11:00 am
Actually you can get Fox News as a channel on Sky Digital
But who would want to?
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
38. Comment #94734 by Russell's Teapot on December 6, 2007 at 11:26 am
"Meeranmar"? No, I don't know about that place, Mr. Catholic. It sounds like it's in the same situation as Myanmar, though. Other Comments by Russell's Teapot
39. Comment #94748 by VanYoungman on December 6, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Right on, Margaret. Give 'em hell. Other Comments by VanYoungman
40. Comment #94757 by liberalartist on December 6, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Fox likes to create controversy where none exists. I swear it was created to keep the masses ignorant!Plenty of non-Christians celebrate Christmas. Christians stole it from the pagans, they don't own it, and everyone needs some cheer in the dead of winter. I enjoy the holiday because I get to see my family, exchange gifts, eat good food, sing old songs and watch all the Rankin/Bass Christmas cartoons from my childhood. I like the idea of "peace-on-earth", a concept many Christians ignore 11 months of the year. Imagine, no religion…
Other Comments by liberalartist
41. Comment #94843 by Frankus1122 on December 6, 2007 at 7:16 pm
"Festivus for the rest of us."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQFLqMyo0fo
It's kinda lame but I like the spirit of inventing your own made-up festival. However, I don't like the bandwagon aspect.
I am making my own festival at this time of year: Frankivus.
It is a lot like Christmas. We have a tree and presents and a big dinner with friends and family. We have drinks as we sit around the fireplace and listen to music. We go tobogganing down the hill and skating on the pond. It is all very nice.
I encourage you to try it.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
42. Comment #94894 by ATH1 on December 7, 2007 at 1:06 am
I am 90% sure that I saw our 'favourite' little priest from Fox in a BBC news report last night regarding this article....Pope approves Lourdes indulgences
Pope Benedict XVI places great importance on indulgences
Pope Benedict XVI has authorised special indulgences to mark the 150th anniversary of the Virgin Mary's reputed appearance at Lourdes.
Catholics visiting the site within a year of 8 December will be able to receive an indulgence, which the Church teaches can reduce time in purgatory.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7131088.stm
I nearly died laughing!!!!
Other Comments by ATH1
43. Comment #94913 by Kal'El on December 7, 2007 at 1:54 am
I got to meet Margaret Downey at the CFI conference in nov. and she is such a nice woman...go Margaret!and jonothan morris is such an idiot...he's a perfect fit for faux news.
Other Comments by Kal'El
44. Comment #94927 by Lil_Xunzian on December 7, 2007 at 2:35 am
I'm gay, so I'm allowed to say this: that priest should not be a priest; he should be in a gay club, wearing a pink lycra tanktop, snapping his fingers at dragqueens, lisping, "hey there girlfriend!"Other Comments by Lil_Xunzian
45. Comment #94956 by tintin on December 7, 2007 at 3:46 am
Of course, one can just quote the Bible right back at them as it forbids Christmas trees...Jeremiah:
10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Other Comments by tintin
46. Comment #95049 by BicycleRepairMan on December 7, 2007 at 8:47 am
I find it embarrassing when atheist groups do this sort of thing.
I thought this was an excellent idea, of course the things you are mentioning are important, but this tree is not gonna revamp the US educational system, but then again, it doesnt cost 300 billion dollars to put it up either. Its a statement, they got TV-coverage. Thats as far as you can possibly get on a budget thats probably alot closer to 300 dollars, and not billions.
Is it gonna change the world? Or even win a single "convert"? hell no. but again, its a statement, a thought-provoker, something to think about. Most people arent even going to do that, but in the words of "Rage against the machine":
"It has to start somewhere,
it has to start somehow,
what better place than here,
what better time than now."
Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan
47. Comment #95236 by HeathenAngel on December 7, 2007 at 4:36 pm
phasmagigas--"For the average secular brit (and perhaps for more americans than we realise) christmas is little more than nostalgia for childhood dressed up in a rather thin religious veneer."This is exactly what I go by when celebrating this time of year. Thank you for putting it so eloquently.
Other Comments by HeathenAngel
48. Comment #99597 by Bob Russell on December 17, 2007 at 6:41 am
This pulpit pilot gives me the creeps with that cheesy grin on his face. Reminds me of Hitchens "No child's behind left" quip.Other Comments by Bob Russell
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The God Delusion
Read by
Richard Dawkins &
Lalla Ward
The Ancestor's Tale
Read by
Richard Dawkins &
Lalla Ward
On the Origin of Species
Read by
Richard Dawkins
Links:
Quote:
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
Christopher Hitchens
Other Recommended Reading
Before the Dawn
Nicholas Wade
Breaking the Spell
Daniel C. Dennett
Creationism's Trojan Horse
Barbara Forrest, Paul R. Gross
More Books
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"If this book doesn't change the world -- we're all screwed."
-Penn (Penn & Teller)
The God Delusion
by Richard Dawkins
Over 1.5 million copies sold
DVDs
'The Genius of Charles Darwin' DVD (PAL Region 2 ONLY)
'Enemies of Reason' DVD
'Voices of Science' DVD
'The Four Horsemen' DVD
'Root of All Evil? The Original Program' DVD
'Growing Up in the Universe' DVD
'Break the Science Barrier' DVD
Books by Richard Dawkins
The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing
by Richard Dawkins
The Selfish Gene
by Richard Dawkins
The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
The Ancestor's Tale
by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow
by Richard Dawkins
1. Comment #94553 by Verylee on December 6, 2007 at 1:26 am
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