1. Comment #94978 by BaronOchs on December 7, 2007 at 5:10 am

What an evil man.

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2. Comment #95005 by ab_initio on December 7, 2007 at 6:34 am

Oh but you forget how much good comes from it as well!

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3. Comment #95009 by mcsekar on December 7, 2007 at 6:53 am

I haven't watched the video, but I have believed since a few years that the Baba is a fraud and a smuggler. As to the allegations of sexual abuse, I find those difficult to believe. I think I will tell another side of the story, which the BBC, I assume has neglected with its concentration on the issue of sexual abuse, because I think that will be believed more and will sell well in the West.
Pardon me, this might be long.

Well, what can I say about Sathya Sai Baba? He lives in my state. And the place he was born is close to my mother's village. He has done some good things, like building reservoirs and providing drinking water and free medical services and education to a parched land in the state of Andhra Pradesh in India. I have heard stories that he is a smuggler. And any rational person knows he is a fraud.

Now, I know people scoff and laugh at the concept that he is a God, but you must realise that this happens in India. Even if he does a few bad things, I don't know if I will start a campaign against him now, because believe me, no campaign against him will work. In India, the law won't touch him. Perhaps when he visits some other country, that country's law enforcement might catch him, but that will create a huge diplomatic outcry, and nations have stopped law enforcement for lesser reasons.

One point to mention is that very few people in the villages near where he lives have faith in him. I know this because I have asked some people who live there and they said so. They are happy that someone has given them a continuous supply of drinking water, but in his godhood they believe not. They still believe in the other old standard Gods of Hinduism. It will take atleast a century for this Baba to be established as a God. But, these people do give him a certain respect.

Here is the interesting part, the conspiracy theory. Now, coming to these allegations of sexual abuse, I think it is a clever plan by some group or individual to disrobe the Baba. (These allegations could be true.) Let's call this group or individual X. I believe that X is doing a noble job, but X's efforts are futile and will not give any results. It is a fair assumption to say that X is from India. Now, India won't act against the Baba. So, X has no choice but to seek outside help in destroying the Baba. Some fools from other countries too believed in the Baba, even though they had their own God. Isn't that odd? Why come all the way to India to believe in someone who you know can only be a fraud? So, X decides that the Baba might be brought down by these people if the Baba sexually abused them, because it is far more heinous than smuggling. For a God that is. And that was also how the Catholic priestly order lost their credibility. It is a clever plan, but it won't work in India. X should have stuck to smuggling and added treason for a little extra flavour. Then, the Baba could have been killed in the name of terrorism by someone like Indira Gandhi and it would have worked. Still, I wish X good luck and hope X succeeds.

In the end, I would say that the Baba has more than one side to him. He has done some evil things, and he has helped poor people and he is a fraud. Now judge him yourself. We are all aware of several people who have done even worse things, and yet we elect them to office. So, I feel it is strange, when the Baba is being brought down, but not the politicians. But still, bring down the Baba! The poeple of India have other old Gods, and don't need any Babas. And they will survive even if the Baba does not help them.

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4. Comment #95022 by coretemprising on December 7, 2007 at 7:25 am

Here's another one for anyone interested.
Amrit Desai, kicked out of his own ashram for sexual misconduct. In my 20s I lived in this ashram for 2 years, and left before the conflict here described ensued.

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/desai.asp

But look, he's back!

http://www.amrityoga.org/

I wonder if he's cleaned up his act?
People never learn.

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5. Comment #95097 by frikkenkids on December 7, 2007 at 10:46 am

That water pipeline things seems so transparently non-godlike that it's pathetic. Giving clean water to a village (or villages) is indeed a noble and wonderful thing to do. However, shouldn't a god just be able to increase the amount of natural clean water in the area? Then there's the hospital. Again a very noble endeavor. However, shouldn't a god just be able to heal the sick? This reminds me of Kirk's line in Star Trek 5..."What does god need with a starship?"

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6. Comment #95123 by 82abhilash on December 7, 2007 at 11:52 am

The aim here is not social welfare, but power. To gain power over the masses, you must make them dependent on you. When you make schools, hospitals and make clean water available, and you own and control the resources, what does it matter if they believe in you or not? They are dependent on you. They will let you get away with quiet a lot.

The only way to undermine such people, if the masses are able to play a direct rational role in ensuring their own welfare. Words like direct democracy, participatory democracy and local self-governance come to mind.

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7. Comment #95157 by mint_tea on December 7, 2007 at 1:13 pm

I agree with mcsekhar, who makes many superb points.

Obviously, the sexual molestation charges against Sai Baba are all part of a conspiracy. Much like the conspiracy of sexual abuse survivors against the Catholic Church - the fact that so many people have similiar stories of molestation only proves this is a conspiracy.

The Rahm family may have been earnest devotees of the Sai Baba for years, but I choose not to listen to them, or to believe the allegations of their handsome, strapping son.

Somehow it just makes more sense that this is all a conspiracy.

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8. Comment #95158 by Quine on December 7, 2007 at 1:15 pm

The acceptance of "holiness" as above natural human behavior sets this up. I strongly advise all to see the DVD Deliver Us from Evil in which you will see the very same things.

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9. Comment #95163 by mint_tea on December 7, 2007 at 1:21 pm

Here's an interesting question: why is it that so many charismatic founders of religion end up sexually molesting their flock? I'm thinking of Jim Jones, Mohammed (12 wives, married Aisha before she turned 10), David Koresh, and of course Sai Baba.

It's a definite pattern throughout history. I can offer many psychological speculations as to why this is so, but it's still fascinating as ultimately it severely undermines these religious leaders' legitimacy and legacy.

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10. Comment #95181 by 82abhilash on December 7, 2007 at 2:14 pm

mint_tea,

It is not too difficult to explain. Religions are founded by people who are on the lunatic fringe of society to begin with. They set up institutions which will give the power and help them live their way of life forcing the rest of us into submission.

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11. Comment #95185 by Jenin on December 7, 2007 at 2:21 pm

also add Joseph Smith to that

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12. Comment #95191 by BaronOchs on December 7, 2007 at 2:32 pm

mint_tea I am lost for words over mcsekhar's post, he basically says "my conspiracy theory is so evidently plausible I'm not going to subject it to the actual evidence presented in the documentary that these allegations are true!

So much for caring about evidence, or perhaps he/she still has some lingering resistance to admitting supposed godmen are all too human?

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13. Comment #95199 by Jenin on December 7, 2007 at 2:51 pm

That Dr. Goldstein strikes me as worst of all. Betraying people like that, and refusing to even consider the possibility that the accusations were true is the height of stupidity and arrogance.

I wonder if the Rahms became atheists or at least skeptics, or if they went on to another religion.

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14. Comment #95235 by SilentMike on December 7, 2007 at 4:35 pm

We keep shooting them down, and new ones just keep popping up. This cycle will never end.

This is enough to make one feel very tired.

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15. Comment #95270 by mcsekar on December 7, 2007 at 8:02 pm

BaronOchs wrote

mint_tea I am lost for words over mcsekhar's post, he basically says "my conspiracy theory is so evidently plausible I'm not going to subject it to the actual evidence presented in the documentary that these allegations are true!

So much for caring about evidence, or perhaps he/she still has some lingering resistance to admitting supposed godmen are all too human?"

I believe the Baba is a fraud for the simple reason that humans can't perform miracles. I believe he is a smuggler. (Someone else told me that he was a smuggler) I wrote this at the beginning of my earlier comment. I believed in this long before these allegations of sexual abuse surfaced, and before he was revealed to be a low-class magician in that documentary.
In my comment I did say that those allegations could be true. But are they really? I don't really believe in them. Let me explain a little more. I read more about these allegations on the internet. I find them difficult to believe because it seemed odd to me that these allegations should first crop up from some foreigners. If he has abused as many as has been alleged on the internet, surely many others should have been molested over several years. And the Rahm family would not have been the first. The Baba would have started molesting his Indian devotees long ago. And I never even heard whispers or gossip of such incidents earlier. And if I heard that he is a smuggler, I bet I would have heard that he has a fondness for young boys. And these allegations make it the sensational news that would be lapped up by the Western media. Add to it the Catholic priests(they are sort of like Indian Babas) sorry story. All of it seemed too right to be true. Hence, I said that it was like a conspiracy theory. I can be accused of not believing in the actual evidence, but if I am to be rational and use reason and weigh all odds, then I find the evidence in this context to be untrustworthy. As I said, exposing his cheap parlour tricks and bringing in charges of smuggling+treason would have been more practical, useful and believable. And Indian politicians would have thought it was a godsend.

mint_tea wrote

I agree with mcsekhar, who makes many superb points.

Obviously, the sexual molestation charges against Sai Baba are all part of a conspiracy. Much like the conspiracy of sexual abuse survivors against the Catholic Church - the fact that so many people have similiar stories of molestation only proves this is a conspiracy.

The Rahm family may have been earnest devotees of the Sai Baba for years, but I choose not to listen to them, or to believe the allegations of their handsome, strapping son.

Somehow it just makes more sense that this is all a conspiracy.

I was myself surprised when I read this comment, because I did not think anyone would believe in my childish conspiracy theory. When I outlined a conspiracy theory, I did not do it for the benefit of the Baba. I did it because I thought people were going about the wrong way in debunking his godhood and the theory seems fun and true. Not because I believe he is a God. I thought of that theory for the reasons I hope I have explained better in this comment. Certainly, I do not want more people to believe in the Baba. Bring him down if it can be done.

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16. Comment #95272 by sillysighbean on December 7, 2007 at 8:31 pm

Sai Baba & Leslie West: Separated at birth?

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17. Comment #95275 by LDmiller on December 7, 2007 at 8:36 pm

What always strikes me about these people is their G-U-L-L-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y!

That seems to be a universal characteristic, and the "flower child" or "new age" generation appears especially susceptible to it.

It is worldwide, and it is manifested by trading in the Enlightenment for Post-modernism. As Hitchens put it so well in his recent interview in Portugal, We Are In Reverse.

Scary!

(It's all the Beatles' fault!) ;^)

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18. Comment #95611 by HeathenAngel on December 8, 2007 at 7:07 pm

Two things I want to say.

1. Hitch's challenge was on my mind the whole time I watched this.

2. mcsekhar,

PLEASE tell me you are being facetious.. tell me that YOU are a POE, or at least that your post is.

If not.. you are disgusting, in the literal sense of the word. How could anyone in their right mind be an apologist for a pedophile? You are the sexual predator's best friend.. making excuses, justifications and rationalizations for their behavior that allows them the credibility to go out and abuse again.

Excuse me now while I go puke and then take a shower.

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19. Comment #95622 by robotaholic on December 8, 2007 at 8:18 pm

what the *uck - another weird cult...

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20. Comment #96022 by Alkal on December 9, 2007 at 7:02 pm

Oh the Sai Baba is a pathetic person... accompanied by Sri Sri Ravishakar, Srimataji Nirmala Devi, Maharishi Mahesh yogi et al et al.. not to count the 3.3 million gods and goddesses in the Indian pantheon...

What is pathetic is the way people, ratonal, normal people get swayed by this nonsense....

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21. Comment #96221 by Tyler Durden on December 10, 2007 at 7:27 am

Hitch should update the subtitle of "God is not Great" for its next publishing run: "How religion makes you dumb as a post!"

So Baba builds a hospital and is deemed a god, yet when Bill Gates does it he just a businessman.

As for the guy who founded Hard Rock Cafe - yet another reason not to eat there (not that I ever have previously!)

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22. Comment #96267 by Samsayananda on December 10, 2007 at 8:54 am

Dear Sekar,

Baba is a thug , he has killed many people, he has all politicians in his pocket. See the following website to learn about this hoodlum:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html

Follow all the links.All Indian gurus are cheats. There are no exceptions.

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23. Comment #96304 by mcsekar on December 10, 2007 at 10:32 am

Samsayananda

Dear Sekar,

Baba is a thug , he has killed many people, he has all politicians in his pocket. See the following website to learn about this hoodlum:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html

Follow all the links.All Indian gurus are cheats. There are no exceptions.

Ok, I read through some of the links. And I realise now that the Baba really is a pedophile. This is horrible. Did any of you know that my cousin used to have darshan of the Baba for some 6 years or so, when he studied in the Baba's school? I do not know if he had ever had any private interviews. I can't even think about it or ask him. I told my aunt not to send him to that school, she never listened because I was myself a school kid then. I feel great anger towards this black-haired 80 year old pedophile. I guess I realise what that family in the documentary felt. My apologies for my stupidity and gross insensitivity.
As for him being a cheat and a smuggler, I knew that since long ago. I just thought he was not a pedophile. This monster will be brought down by accusations of pedophilia only if he is arrested in some other country. Hope some other country does that when he leaves India. Must put in charges of treason+terrorism or murder, if he is to be arrested in India.

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24. Comment #97386 by PJG on December 12, 2007 at 2:17 am

Does Sai Baba claim to see women/girls as equal to men/boys and, if so, do young girls ever get private audiences with him?

If not, why not?

If no girls have made allegations of sexual abuse, doesn't it make the ones made, all by boys, more likely to be true (if it is about attention seeking, girls would be making accusations too)

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25. Comment #98864 by NoodlyBlessing on December 14, 2007 at 7:09 pm

There was what you would call a genuine sadhu, in India, last century; he was a Sufi, Hindu and Christian mystic who did some minor, but possibly real miracles: His name was SAI BABA OF SHIRDI. People revered him as god and made him rich, but the holy man lived as a homeless beggar all his life. He passed away a few decades ago.

Then this fraud came along calling himself "Satya" Sai Baba: Satya means true, to say that he is the true Sai Baba. Anyone who would assume the name of another, tells you something about them from the get go

There was a Hindi movie called SARKAR that did a parody of this "Satya" joker, bringing him to heel along with all the corrupt politicians that protected him. There's a You Tube clip called "Meet God or meet me" somewhere

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26. Comment #98971 by Insomic on December 15, 2007 at 4:19 am

Best question ever: "Why would God want to put his penis in your mouth?" You have to give the reporter credit for saying this straight-faced.

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27. Comment #99475 by mint_tea on December 16, 2007 at 6:18 pm

If he has abused as many as has been alleged on the internet, surely many others should have been molested over several years. And the Rahm family would not have been the first. The Baba would have started molesting his Indian devotees long ago. And I never even heard whispers or gossip of such incidents earlier.

I can easily imagine why Indian victims of the Baba would be reluctant to press charges; or if they did come forward and refuse the hush money, what fate would lie in store for them.

You really should watch the video though... I think you'll find the Rahms to be very believable. They were devoted believers of the Swami for many years.

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28. Comment #99477 by NoodlyBlessing on December 16, 2007 at 6:20 pm

"Beats me..." Very honest response. Incredible courage for that man to say what happened to him. I applaud his courage and willingness to show his vulnerabilty and admit what happened.

"Comment #98971 by Insomic on December 15, 2007 at 4:19 am Best question ever: "Why would God want to put his penis in your mouth?" You have to give the reporter credit for saying this straight-faced."

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29. Comment #99495 by dkbhanu on December 16, 2007 at 8:03 pm

My first introduction to the existence of this fraud came through a group of Saibaba worshippers during my grad school at a university in USA. These people were all doctors, researchers or graduate students performing research in medicines, biology, biomedical engineering, etc. Their local leader was an otherwise nice man and department head of Biomedical engineering dept. at the university. I am just amazed that even educated people who know the grandness of nature and our universe settle for such a small and useless interpretation of god, let alone question need or existence of one.

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30. Comment #99496 by dkbhanu on December 16, 2007 at 8:07 pm

On a related note, the profile resembles that of the another man who claimed he was god and performed some useless miracles.

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31. Comment #99712 by phil burdett on December 17, 2007 at 11:37 am

"Why do you think god would want you to put your penis in his mouth?" - a question too infrequently asked in religious debate, i feel..

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32. Comment #103181 by drbreakfast on December 24, 2007 at 12:20 pm

It is truly baffling that anyone could follow this fraud. However, what's even more baffling is that for millions across the world (including those who would recognize Sai Baba as a fraud), will believe in "miracles" that purportedly occurred at the beginning of the 1st Century and then "recorded" in "Gospels" written decades after the "fact."

Can anyone explain to me why ancient gibberish is more credible that modern gibberish?

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33. Comment #105143 by PLAYBALL on December 30, 2007 at 5:45 pm

I had a very difficult time with this information. Why can't someone fly a plane into his house?

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34. Comment #107029 by kzg on January 4, 2008 at 12:08 am

My employer is a devotee of Baba's andi I wish he would watch this video. Alas, he would probably just ignore the evidence - both in regards to the Baba "miracles", and the allegations of predatorial exploitation of children. It seems that religious memes are entirely immune to rational medication - perhaps early immunization is the only way to go!

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35. Comment #115388 by salgiambruno on January 24, 2008 at 6:18 am

It appears that the Sai Baba and the Catholic Church have at least a few things in common.

But what really disgusted me more than anything about this documentary, were the Rahm parents. What fakes! They're the ones who ought to be dragged off to prison as I see it. All along they were in it for the money. They got their free estate and milked Baba for all they could. Then, Baba got tired of them and they were no longer the Golden Children, so they finally put an end to the abuse suffered by their son, but only as a tool (once again) to use against Baba as extortion.

Makes me sick. Does anyone else see it this way? Both Mr. and Mrs. Rhama appeared to me transparently fake and money-hungry, not giving a damn about how many times their poor soon had to take it in the arse, or elsewhere for that matter. Did I mention this story makes me sick?

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36. Comment #145520 by pathinfo on March 17, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Video's can lie just as easily as any person including Sai Baba.

Maybe you can visit this link to find out more about him - http://www.sentforlife.com/saibaba.html

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