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3. Comment #95308 by Nails on December 8, 2007 at 1:08 am
4. Comment #95315 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 1:30 am
Nice article, but I notice his praise for the book is limited, very limited. His main talking point is the expression of free speach.
5. Comment #95318 by Nick Good on December 8, 2007 at 1:52 am
6. Comment #95320 by Nathan Lewellen on December 8, 2007 at 1:56 am
The fact that Turkey is in such an area that hostilities are so common to will hopefully deter RD from going there. Just when you think you're getting a good message across to some people who could use some secularism, another Muslim blows himself up and gets his 72 crystal-clear raisins.7. Comment #95337 by notsobad on December 8, 2007 at 3:16 am
You won't see any niqabs in Turkey.
8. Comment #95348 by BicycleRepairMan on December 8, 2007 at 4:52 am
From what I can glean, other than the Koran and Hadith, Arabs are not really into books.
9. Comment #95361 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 6:30 am
Thanks, notsobad! Additional info and correction always appreciated. :)Another, no less grave, result is the dearth of creativity. The report comments sadly on the severe shortage of new writing, and, for instance, the decline in the film industry. Nor are foreign books much translated: in the 1,000 years since the reign of the Caliph Mamoun, say the authors, the Arabs have translated as many books as Spain translates in one year.
10. Comment #95362 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 6:34 am
I meant thanks to Nick Good for the initial observation about books and BRM for the follow-up.11. Comment #95365 by thirdchimpanzee on December 8, 2007 at 6:56 am
I think whether Turkey is admitted to the EU is extremely important to the future of Western/Islamic relations. Just as individuals can become radicalised by real or perceived exclusion - a factor in the radicalisation of the Muslim world is the sense that their societies will never be accepted in the West. It's clear from her writing that, as a secular modern Turk, she's already imagining (wishing) that Turkey is a European country. She references the European Court in Strasbourg, which is applicable since Turkey signed the European Convention on Human Rights.12. Comment #95387 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 8:34 am
It's clear from her writing that, as a secular modern Turk, she's already imagining (wishing) that Turkey is a European country. She references the European Court in Strasbourg, which is applicable since Turkey signed the European Convention on Human Rights.I agree.
This potential prosecution should be seen in the same light as the kind of nonsense going on the the US (I'm thinking of the career ending email in Texas for providing information about a presentation on evolution).If you are right, and you seem to have a knowledge of the area, then this is some hopeful news.
At least we can be sure that any efforts in Turkey to raise these cases to the level of the European Court will be decided in favour of modernityI agree.
If RD is invited to speak in Turkey - he should go. I can't think his security in Turkey would be much worse than in the UK with its sizeable pool of wannabe jihadis,I agree.
the only way I can see of bringing the Muslim world with us into the 21st century is by showing some basic respect for countries like Turkey and their attempts to build a progressive society.We should always show respect for other people with whom we are trying to deal. I think it depends upon how we manifest that respect. In Western Europe this respect has been manifested by, in my view, infantilising our Muslim interlocutors: because they make it clear that voicing views that they don't like is an insult that they can't cope with other than by violence or disengagement, we have paid them the "respect" of not treating them like equals. Until we shake off this self-imposed censorship, we are in danger. I feel that it is true of virtually all other groups that if they are brought into things, they begin to adapt and integrate. No doubt also true to some extent of Muslims. However, we simply can't ignore the fact that the evidence is ambiguous. We have even seen Muslim academics warning us that the aim of many Muslim groups in non-Islamic societies is not to integrate. This separation is not all to do with hostility or xenophobia on the part of the indigenous population.
I don't agree with the parallel, partly for the reason stated above. Islamic groups seem to behave differently; by remaining separate and repeatedly demonstrating that they care more about getting things their way than we do ours, (up to and including killing and dying), they appear to be able to engineer what in business terms would be called a reverse take-over. It only needs a relatively small determined group to achieve major advances, witness the IRA. In the UK, polls would suggest that, whilst the murderous fanatics may be few, the number of Muslims who cherish a long-term dream and goal of an Islamic UK under Sharia Law is very, very significant.
Were Portugal, Spain and Greece so "advanced" when they were admitted? Each of them had only recently emerged from the grips of fascist dictatorships - closely tied to their respective Churches. In the rural areas women went around with headscarves not so different from the hijab. The Church dominated the political arena - with predicable consequences for women's rights, free speech and so on.
13. Comment #96028 by dragonfirematrix on December 9, 2007 at 7:24 pm
14. Comment #96296 by Strappado on December 10, 2007 at 10:11 am
15. Comment #97076 by bilgesophie on December 11, 2007 at 11:11 am
YEAp I got it !!!16. Comment #133001 by mulder on February 25, 2008 at 1:57 pm
The book is extraordinarily fascinating and so are the debates Mr Dawkins is included.Ypu can find some of them on youtube,dont miss!Now, I am desperately waiting for Mr Dawkins to come to Turkey and hopefully our university.I dont think the public will make a fuss about it.Here, people usually dont interfere with each other's religions,though atheist are somewhat reluctant to
1. Comment #95293 by Theocrapcy on December 7, 2007 at 10:56 pm
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