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Friday, December 7, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document The God Delusion in Turkey

by Turkish Daily News

Thanks to greekatheist for the link.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=90179

"An atheist in this sense [of philosophical naturalist] is somebody who believes there is nothing beyond the natural, physical world, no supernatural creative intelligence lurking behind the observable universe, no soul that outlasts the body and no miracles – except in the sense of natural phenomena that we don't yet understand. As ever when we unweave a rainbow, it will not become less wonderful." This is a definition of an atheist borrowed from a book written by the world's most influential biologist and the most famous atheist Richard Dawkins. Its name is "The God Delusion". I bought it about a year ago. In his book, Dawkins who also holds a Chair at the Oxford University elegantly describes and defends his atheist views calling religious beliefs "the God Hypothesis". He argues there is almost certainly no God whatsoever and "asserts the irrationality of belief in God and the grievous harm religion has inflicted on society, from the Crusades to 9/11." (Text quoted from the book's cover.) Naturally, the professor of science seeks support for his arguments against the existence of a supernatural intelligence in the science and in the expressions of men of science. Indeed, the book is not only a methodical account of dry arguments; on the contrary, it is a very readable text full of great scientists' and thinkers' quotations, such as Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawkins or Ralph Waldo Emerson. So, professor Dawkins defines himself as an atheist, describes what he means by that and argues his position. A logical and even predictable conclusion for an evolutionist who already thirty-three years ago became famous for his theory of 'reciprocal altruism' explained in his bestseller "The Selfish Gene" that was translated into almost thirty languages. "The God Delusion" is following the same path. It is being translated to other languages swiftly so that people who are interested in his views can approach them. Although it was published only last year, already 1.5 million copies have been sold all around the world, 6,000 of them in Turkey. Reader's Digest named Richard Dawkins author of the year and Galaxy British Book Awards ("the Oscar" of the book trade) awarded him with the same title. The best-selling book has been translated to the Turkish language thanks to the translator Erol Karaaslan and his publishing house, Kuzey.

Freedom of expression put to test

But alas, less then six months after the famed book became available also in Turkish, the issue made headlines broadcasted even on CNN International: A Turkish prosecutor launched an investigation into whether this best-selling book can incite a religious hatred in Turkey. The prosecutor acts on behalf of one reader's complain that some passages of the book were assaulting "sacred values". Well, it is needless to refer to the freedom of expression or to the relativity of "right" and "false". It is also quite unnecessary to emphasize that if this nonsensical official probe into the book results in a trial – that might end up with one-year sentence – the publisher would without any doubt seek (and find) justice before the Strasbourg court. And personally, I don't believe any prosecutor in a democratic country like Turkey could go "so far" as to start the prosecution on suggested grounds – independently on whether he believes there is God or agrees with professor Dawkins. Moreover, an investigation of this kind on behalf of a claim from a citizen can be opened – but also closed as fast as possible – in any other country.



However, the fact that such a probe was launched in Turkey and that it was launched right now are two unfortunate factors. The present climate vis-à-vis freedom of expression has been the subject of criticism both internally and externally: Cases under article 301, some with dire consequences, of implied censorship and on the top of the "secularists vs. Islamists" debate. Simply, an investigation into whether an atheist book can be published in a secular country is ridiculous and doesn't suit Turkey at all. On the contrary, what we should do at this stage is invite Mr. Dawkins to Turkey to discuss his views here publicly; as should be the case in any other pluralist democracy.

* Sylvia Tiryaki can be reached at s.tiryaki@iku.edu.tr

Comments 1 - 16 of 16 |

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1. Comment #95293 by Theocrapcy on December 7, 2007 at 10:56 pm

 avatarhere, here

Other Comments by Theocrapcy

2. Comment #95294 by mdowe on December 7, 2007 at 11:05 pm

 avatarIf I were Professor Dawkins I'd cheerfully agree to discuss my views for the Turkish public, but only from a safe distance well outside of Turkish jurisdiction!

Other Comments by mdowe

3. Comment #95308 by Nails on December 8, 2007 at 1:08 am

 avatarNice article, but I notice his praise for the book is limited, very limited. His main talking point is the expression of free speach.

Invite RD to Turkuy?
If I were invited to Turkey to discuss my religious vaues (or lack of them) I would have to decline and I hope RD does the same. Whilst the few Turkish people I do know who live in the UK are generally decent people, I fear the ability of Islamic extremists (or is that moderates?) to rabble rouse and prepare for violence is all too real.

Other Comments by Nails

4. Comment #95315 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 1:30 am

Nice article, but I notice his praise for the book is limited, very limited. His main talking point is the expression of free speach.

Sylvia Tiryaki's praise of the book is succinct but, I feel, unequivocal.

Her main thrust seems to me to be intentionally the issue of freedom of speech.

I don't think she's damning RD with faint praise or grudgingly; she's holding him up as a person of world stature in two fields who has written great popular books on both, which have earned world-wide acclaim.

I think she's saying "Wake up, folks. Turkey is on its way to joining the EU and you need to look at what they do as well as what they say about secularity. Look how they react to Dawkins' work, regardless of the eventual outcome in this particular instance."

To be fair, we can say on the positive side that Turkey is a Muslim country that has been aggressively secularist in the way it has permitted religious presence but flatly banned the more overt demonstrations of faith. You won't see any niqabs in Turkey.

On the negative side, this situation only exists because of military rule. A full EU-type democracy in Turkey could result in a very quick tranformation of the country from military rule to elective theocracy.

The EU would, of course, expect full democratisation as a condition for entry.

Other Comments by IanG

5. Comment #95318 by Nick Good on December 8, 2007 at 1:52 am

 avatarI hope The God Delusion is translated into Arabic, but whether it's put on sale, is another matter.

From what I can glean, other than the Koran and Hadith, Arabs are not really into books.

Other Comments by Nick Good

6. Comment #95320 by Nathan Lewellen on December 8, 2007 at 1:56 am

The fact that Turkey is in such an area that hostilities are so common to will hopefully deter RD from going there. Just when you think you're getting a good message across to some people who could use some secularism, another Muslim blows himself up and gets his 72 crystal-clear raisins.

But on a much lighter note, for RD to be invited to Turkey would at least be a sign of secular movement towards an area of the world that seems to deplore any idea that doesn't come from a raving lunatic. Intelligence may be slipping into the middle-East by means of a Turkish back door. Better than not at all I would say.

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7. Comment #95337 by notsobad on December 8, 2007 at 3:16 am

 avatar
You won't see any niqabs in Turkey.

You will. You just need to get outside the tourist destinations and especially into the parts near Syria with Arabic minority.

Other Comments by notsobad

8. Comment #95348 by BicycleRepairMan on December 8, 2007 at 4:52 am

 avatar
From what I can glean, other than the Koran and Hadith, Arabs are not really into books.


Lets stick to "Islam is not really into books", thankfully, you can be arabic and not subscribe to that travesty of a religion, but once you do, books are generally excluded from the reading list, I suppose.

Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan

9. Comment #95361 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 6:30 am

Thanks, notsobad! Additional info and correction always appreciated. :)

BicycleRepairMan, as regards the books thing, how right you are! There was a series of articles in The Economist a year or two ago on Islam, following a UN Report that was produced by Arab scholars.

Here is a quote from the Economist article, quoting from the UN Report itself:

Another, no less grave, result is the dearth of creativity. The report comments sadly on the severe shortage of new writing, and, for instance, the decline in the film industry. Nor are foreign books much translated: in the 1,000 years since the reign of the Caliph Mamoun, say the authors, the Arabs have translated as many books as Spain translates in one year.

What chance that any of the work of Dawkins or any of the others will be accessible in Arabic in the foreseeable future?

Other Comments by IanG

10. Comment #95362 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 6:34 am

I meant thanks to Nick Good for the initial observation about books and BRM for the follow-up.

Other Comments by IanG

11. Comment #95365 by thirdchimpanzee on December 8, 2007 at 6:56 am

I think whether Turkey is admitted to the EU is extremely important to the future of Western/Islamic relations. Just as individuals can become radicalised by real or perceived exclusion - a factor in the radicalisation of the Muslim world is the sense that their societies will never be accepted in the West. It's clear from her writing that, as a secular modern Turk, she's already imagining (wishing) that Turkey is a European country. She references the European Court in Strasbourg, which is applicable since Turkey signed the European Convention on Human Rights.

The way Turkish membership has been treated by France, Germany and the Netherlands has been little short of disgraceful. I'm sure there are deep grumblings within the UK, but that's in the wider context of immigration, and the fact that Turkey's application is still alive is largely thanks to the UK and the Scandinavians (fortunately Sweden is about to take the presidency next year).

Most of the arguments about culturally differences between European and Turkish society amount, in my opinion, to an obvious double standard. Were Portugal, Spain and Greece so "advanced" when they were admitted? Each of them had only recently emerged from the grips of fascist dictatorships - closely tied to their respective Churches. In the rural areas women went around with headscarves not so different from the hijab. The Church dominated the political arena - with predicable consequences for women's rights, free speech and so on.

Ataturk was a determined secularist, and even switched the written language from Arabic to roman characters to break with the Islamic past. Why should a Europe that turned down the opportunity to enshrine references to Christianity in its constitution be afraid of an officially secular country whose majority Church just happens to be Sunni Islam? It doesn't take much imagination to see how offended Turks must feel at the way they and their society are being described in various European countries.

This potential prosecution should be seen in the same light as the kind of nonsense going on the the US (I'm thinking of the career ending email in Texas for providing information about a presentation on evolution). At least we can be sure that any efforts in Turkey to raise these cases to the level of the European Court will be decided in favour of modernity - can't say the same about the US Supreme Court.

If RD is invited to speak in Turkey - he should go. I can't think his security in Turkey would be much worse than in the UK with its sizeable pool of wannabe jihadis, and the only way I can see of bringing the Muslim world with us into the 21st century is by showing some basic respect for countries like Turkey and their attempts to build a progressive society.

Other Comments by thirdchimpanzee

12. Comment #95387 by IanG on December 8, 2007 at 8:34 am

It's clear from her writing that, as a secular modern Turk, she's already imagining (wishing) that Turkey is a European country. She references the European Court in Strasbourg, which is applicable since Turkey signed the European Convention on Human Rights.
I agree.
This potential prosecution should be seen in the same light as the kind of nonsense going on the the US (I'm thinking of the career ending email in Texas for providing information about a presentation on evolution).
If you are right, and you seem to have a knowledge of the area, then this is some hopeful news.
At least we can be sure that any efforts in Turkey to raise these cases to the level of the European Court will be decided in favour of modernity
I agree.
If RD is invited to speak in Turkey - he should go. I can't think his security in Turkey would be much worse than in the UK with its sizeable pool of wannabe jihadis,
I agree.
the only way I can see of bringing the Muslim world with us into the 21st century is by showing some basic respect for countries like Turkey and their attempts to build a progressive society.
We should always show respect for other people with whom we are trying to deal. I think it depends upon how we manifest that respect. In Western Europe this respect has been manifested by, in my view, infantilising our Muslim interlocutors: because they make it clear that voicing views that they don't like is an insult that they can't cope with other than by violence or disengagement, we have paid them the "respect" of not treating them like equals. Until we shake off this self-imposed censorship, we are in danger. I feel that it is true of virtually all other groups that if they are brought into things, they begin to adapt and integrate. No doubt also true to some extent of Muslims. However, we simply can't ignore the fact that the evidence is ambiguous. We have even seen Muslim academics warning us that the aim of many Muslim groups in non-Islamic societies is not to integrate. This separation is not all to do with hostility or xenophobia on the part of the indigenous population.

Were Portugal, Spain and Greece so "advanced" when they were admitted? Each of them had only recently emerged from the grips of fascist dictatorships - closely tied to their respective Churches. In the rural areas women went around with headscarves not so different from the hijab. The Church dominated the political arena - with predicable consequences for women's rights, free speech and so on.
I don't agree with the parallel, partly for the reason stated above. Islamic groups seem to behave differently; by remaining separate and repeatedly demonstrating that they care more about getting things their way than we do ours, (up to and including killing and dying), they appear to be able to engineer what in business terms would be called a reverse take-over. It only needs a relatively small determined group to achieve major advances, witness the IRA. In the UK, polls would suggest that, whilst the murderous fanatics may be few, the number of Muslims who cherish a long-term dream and goal of an Islamic UK under Sharia Law is very, very significant.

The emphasis often seems to be on understanding that Muslims in Western society feel under threat and afraid.

So do I.

Bringing into the EU a country like Turkey, where the idea of an Islamic state appears to be suppressed rather than managed, we open the door to a frustrated Islamic population to use western democratic means to throw off the current constraints and move forward.

I believe deeply that wider communities are better in all ways. The problem isn't Turkey; it's us.

Until I see a Western Europe that is prepared to behave in an assertive, adult manner towards Muslims and to expect them to reciprocate, I don't want to see us sleepwalking any further towards this cliff.

Other Comments by IanG

13. Comment #96028 by dragonfirematrix on December 9, 2007 at 7:24 pm

 avatarAbout this Turkey problem with "The God Delusion"

Didn't I read somewhere that Turkey is trying to get into the EU. Now, I am no EU expert, but isn't tolerance a requirement for EU membership?

How can Turkey even dream of benefiting from EU membership, if it cannot control the believed fantasies of its own people.

In my opinion, Turkey has failed its EU membership qualifications before it even steps up to the front-porch of the EU.

The Law of Evolution created the humans. Humans created (gods).


Wayne (Forest, VA)

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14. Comment #96296 by Strappado on December 10, 2007 at 10:11 am

 avatarIrshad Manji has had great success with translating her book to various languages (Arab, Farsi, Malay and Urdu) used by Muslims, and allow it to be downloaded for free. http://www.irshadmanji.com/translations

My wish is that Richard Dawkins (and anyone else) does the same.
Translations obviously cost money, but on the other hand I hardly think that there's anything lost when it comes to sales. Saudi Arabs can't very much buy the God Delusion in shops, and a lot of people in the region aren't able to read a book like this in the original language, so a free, downloadable version in, say Arab, won't stump sales in other languages.

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15. Comment #97076 by bilgesophie on December 11, 2007 at 11:11 am

YEAp I got it !!!
I went all the bookstores and all i got is an answered :sold.But at least i bought it.
RD definitely should come to turkiye.The possibility of killing RD in U.S is same with Turkey.

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16. Comment #133001 by mulder on February 25, 2008 at 1:57 pm

The book is extraordinarily fascinating and so are the debates Mr Dawkins is included.Ypu can find some of them on youtube,dont miss!Now, I am desperately waiting for Mr Dawkins to come to Turkey and hopefully our university.I dont think the public will make a fuss about it.Here, people usually dont interfere with each other's religions,though atheist are somewhat reluctant to
come out(unlike me:D)

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