Wednesday, December 12, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version

U.S. Congress Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith

by RichardDawkins.net

Thanks to Oren Nimelman for the link.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-847

This resolution has been passed in the House, which is the end of the legislative process for simple resolutions. The resolution now takes effect.

Dec 11, 2007: On motion to suspend the rules and agree to the resolution, as amended Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 372 - 9, 10 Present (Roll no. 1143)

map

http://www.govtrack.us/data/us/bills.text/110/hr/hr847.pdf

RESOLUTION
Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian
faith.

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans
and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated
annually by Christians throughout the United
States and the world;

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in
the United States, making Christianity the religion of
over three-fourths of the American population;

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians
throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion
in the world and the religion of about one-third of
the world population;

Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe
in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice
of their savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God,
and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit
themselves to living their lives in accordance with the
teachings of the Holy Bible;

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly
to the development of western civilization;

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional
republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds
much in its history that points observers back to its roots
in Christianity;

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American
Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the
birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition
of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the
United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas
as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it

1 Resolved, That the House of Representatives—
2 (1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the
3 great religions of the world;

1 (2) expresses continued support for Christians
2 in the United States and worldwide;
3 (3) acknowledges the international religious and
4 historical importance of Christmas and the Christian
5 faith;
6 (4) acknowledges and supports the role played
7 by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the
8 United States and in the formation of the western
9 civilization;
10 (5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed
11 against Christians, both in the United States and
12 worldwide; and
13 (6) expresses its deepest respect to American
14 Christians and Christians throughout the world.

Add to del.icio.us Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 | Permalink

Comments 1 - 50 of 105 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

1. Comment #97917 by Diacanu on December 12, 2007 at 8:40 pm

Well, so much for separation of church and state.

Fuckballs.

Other Comments by Diacanu

2. Comment #97926 by Ian on December 12, 2007 at 8:51 pm

My sympathies to our US cousins at this, the next stage in the usurpation of power and corruption of democratic principles.

It cold be worse, at least you're not one of the ones they're pandering to.

Other Comments by Ian

3. Comment #97931 by RickM on December 12, 2007 at 8:58 pm

I demand a fuck Jesus resolution!

Other Comments by RickM

4. Comment #97933 by Dr Benway on December 12, 2007 at 9:02 pm

Headline: POWERFUL MAJORITY DECLARES "WE'RE AWESOME!"

Other Comments by Dr Benway

5. Comment #97935 by Mewtwo_X on December 12, 2007 at 9:07 pm

I'd ask when resolutions for any of the other organized religions and their established religions were going to come out, but we already know the answer to that one...

...Are they just trying to deliberately thumb their noses at separation of Church and State?

Other Comments by Mewtwo_X

6. Comment #97936 by BAEOZ on December 12, 2007 at 9:11 pm

This is the problem with democracy. Whenever a majority desires or wills to change the law or how they're interpreted to suit themselves over minorities we get a step closer to authoritarianism. In this case the Christian majority will it that Christianity has pride of place in the U.S. congress.
Now, as I often get buzzed for what I didn't say or not being clear enough, let me say this: I think that democracy is the best option we have. I just think that secular democracy shits over plain vanilla democracy. I'm in a minority, being atheist, though in Australia stuff all give a shit about religion, so it's not a precarious situation. However, whenever the wall is chipped away it, it's hard to repair the damage.
So, can you yanks get your shit into gear and stop pretending the founding fathers were christian and that science is the child of the church when it's really the child of the ancient greeks, sustained perhaps by the schoolmen? Here endeth the rant! Fire away!

Other Comments by BAEOZ

7. Comment #97941 by Don_Quix on December 12, 2007 at 9:27 pm

WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED?

I demand a recount.

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison are rolling in their graves.

This doesn't sound like MY secular representative republic ;)

Other Comments by Don_Quix

8. Comment #97943 by agg on December 12, 2007 at 9:31 pm

I am confused: Has this resolution been voted on yet, has it been adopted and by whom (House or Senate)?

Other Comments by agg

9. Comment #97946 by brue68 on December 12, 2007 at 9:38 pm

. . .

*cries*

Other Comments by brue68

10. Comment #97947 by Gymnopedie on December 12, 2007 at 9:39 pm

I think Santa Claus and his reindeer are voting on it later this month.

And since when do only Christians celebrate Christmas?

Other Comments by Gymnopedie

11. Comment #97948 by Don_Quix on December 12, 2007 at 9:39 pm

I'm confused too. But we're really in deep shit if this resolution has already been voted on and upheld. This has to be some kind of joke.

Other Comments by Don_Quix

12. Comment #97949 by BAEOZ on December 12, 2007 at 9:40 pm

And since when do only Christians celebrate Christmas?

Exactly. Let's put the pagan back into the festival of SOL INVICTVS!

Other Comments by BAEOZ

13. Comment #97951 by Cartomancer on December 12, 2007 at 9:43 pm

I'm really not sure what this declaration is supposed to achieve. It seems to be an entirely vacuuous and pointless endeavour. "We recognise that there are lots of Christians in this world, that Christians have done lots of stuff in the past, that persecuting them needlessly is wrong and that they really like Christmas" Well bugger me, thanks for clearing that up, the rest of us had no idea...

I guess I'm just reading the direct and literal meaning of the words, rather than the predictable spin on them. Obviously it's a statement of preference since there haven't been resolutions about Islam or Buddhism or Utilitarianism and such. The wording is very vague - "we recognise the contributions Christians have made" doesn't actually say anything about what those contributions are. "Whatever they did, we recognise that they did it". This doesn't really tell us very much...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

14. Comment #97953 by chauvinj on December 12, 2007 at 9:49 pm

So the US recognizes the importance of the Christian faith and Christmas in America and the world. Now what does this mean...? What are the implications? I'm so confused...It doesn't seem to be a big deal if they're just recognizing it, the problem lies in where they go from here.

Other Comments by chauvinj

15. Comment #97955 by gkkalai on December 12, 2007 at 9:53 pm

Thats it we are done..Armagaddeon is near. I am going back to India

Other Comments by gkkalai

16. Comment #97956 by chauvinj on December 12, 2007 at 9:59 pm

Why doesn't the US recognize the importance of clear thought, skepticism, self-reflection and criticism, the freedom to question cherished beliefs and rationalism?? But no....they recognize the importance of Christianity? We can only guffaw at all the humbug!

Other Comments by chauvinj

17. Comment #97963 by Ducklike on December 12, 2007 at 10:21 pm

Thankfully I'm not American!

I see two points of potential concern in this resolution. The first follows from point (4):

Resolved, That the House of Representatives ... acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization

This could be used as a "wedge" towards a little history re-write enabling the overall declaration of the US as a christian nation first, foremost, and always. This would be followed shortly by renewed and stronger attacks against separation of church and state.

The second point follows from point (5):

Resolved, That the House of Representatives ... rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide

Consider the outcome of the Dover trial; it may have been easier for the ID/creationists to win if they were able to play the "persecution" card. Also consider that Dover probably won't be the last trial of this nature.

Again, so glad I'm not American!

Other Comments by Ducklike

18. Comment #97965 by Fouad Boussetta on December 12, 2007 at 10:38 pm

Is this a joke? Or a dream? A really stupid dream?

Other Comments by Fouad Boussetta

19. Comment #97967 by Shadow Boxer on December 12, 2007 at 10:42 pm

I read about this on Pharyngula the other day.
Now that the vote's been taken, I must say, I'm impressed that 9 people actually had the guts to vote "nay". A lot more than I would have expected, given what I've been reading about the climate over there.

Other Comments by Shadow Boxer

20. Comment #97968 by JonH on December 12, 2007 at 10:53 pm

BAEOZ

We have a bill of rights and a supreme court for just that reason. They can pass a resolution all day long, but I don't think it really means anything. If a law is made that violates the seperation, then the supreme court will declare it unconstitutional.

Other Comments by JonH

21. Comment #97969 by JemyM on December 12, 2007 at 10:56 pm

I know fascism when I see it.

I recommend watching the old cult classic "The Wave", http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cults+the+wave+part&search=Search

Other Comments by JemyM

22. Comment #97972 by brue68 on December 12, 2007 at 11:08 pm

Well, I'm happy to see one of the nay votes was from Virginia! Sad that it's not my district.

Like last time, I'll be voting against Forbes. Like last time, it probably won't matter, too many rural social conservatives.

Other Comments by brue68

23. Comment #97973 by DNAtheist on December 12, 2007 at 11:11 pm

I think it is worth noting how the vote breaks down along party lines. While all of the nay votes came from democrats (9 votes = 4% of democrats present), the vast majority of democrats voted aye (195 votes = 84% of democrats present). The majority of republicans also voted aye (177 votes = 89% of republicans present), while none voted nay. So in percentage terms the democrats were better than the republicans, but not much better. In terms of raw numbers there were more democrat votes for this measure than republican votes. Among the aye votes was presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, who is often characterized as the candidate who most supports the separation of church and state.

Is there enough room in England for those of us who want out of this asylum?

Other Comments by DNAtheist

24. Comment #97974 by Lord of the Morning on December 12, 2007 at 11:18 pm

Pathetic

Other Comments by Lord of the Morning

25. Comment #97977 by bruce on December 12, 2007 at 11:54 pm

If a law is made that violates the seperation, then the supreme court will declare it unconstitutional.

Actually, the Supreme Court gets to define just what is a violation of Separation and what isn't. With the current makeup on the court, that Wall of Separation will most likely be lowered. If Bush gets any more appointments to the Court, I'm guessing that the old Wall will be lowered quite dramatically. There are several Supremes who can't quite find a Wall in the Constitution. It's more like a speed bump to them, designed to slow you down just a little but it won't stop you. You think Bush is destructive now as president. His legacy on the Supreme Court will probably last for the next 15-20 years, taking this fine country down with it.

Other Comments by bruce

26. Comment #97978 by Quine on December 12, 2007 at 11:58 pm

The House of Representatives can pass a resolution to establish their favorite cookies, but those cookies will have no special standing outside the House. This resolution is neither a law nor allocates funds. They already have chaplains and partake in prayer. All of that should properly be thrown out, along with this resolution, but it may take some time.

[Edit: I wonder if the House considers Mormons as Christians (some Christians don't) given that they were not around until after the "history of the founding." Also, putting "Jesus Christ" in the resolution steps over the line, because Jews do not recognize Jesus of Nazareth as "the Christ" so this slaps them down as written.]

Other Comments by Quine

27. Comment #97980 by Philip1978 on December 13, 2007 at 12:15 am

Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe
in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice
of their saviour, Jesus Christ, the Son of God,
and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit
themselves to living their lives in accordance with the
teachings of the Holy Bible

Yes, I can just imagine a load of Christians even standing up to this one saying " But that's not MY religion, you got that ALL wrong!"

This is pathetic - I guess now it really is "One Nation under God"

Oh well, at least my Prime Minister is not pathetic....oh balls! :)

Philip

Other Comments by Philip1978

28. Comment #97983 by RickM on December 13, 2007 at 12:32 am

As Quine says above, this is a resolution and not a law. It is basically a bunch of political garbage.

Here's what the voting means to me:

372 voted YES (Hey, folks back home, "I'm a good Christian")
9 voted NO ("This resolution is bull shit")
10 voted PRESENT ("I ain't say'n nothin")
40 DID NOT VOTE (They were out of town or had to go potty)

Some resolutions are meaningful, but many are just crap.

Other Comments by RickM

29. Comment #97986 by JanChan on December 13, 2007 at 12:40 am

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional
republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds
much in its history that points observers back to its roots
in Christianity;

Oh, was it the time when George Washington got so bored in a church service that he walked out halfway and never attended another one again? Man, that was a proud moment in history.

Or was it the time when American Protestant majority had their beginnings when an English king made up his own Anglican church when the pope refused to divorce him from a wife that never gave him a son? That was one of the weirdest moments in history.

Other Comments by JanChan

30. Comment #97988 by quill on December 13, 2007 at 12:46 am

You know, as an American, I would have expected something like this to have bothered me. But, surprisingly, it has not. I think this is because:

Whereas, Christianity is currently declining at a rate faster than any other religion, and shows no signs of reversing or even slowing this trend,

Whereas, at the same time, atheism and agnosticism are each growing at a rate faster than any religion,

Whereas, one of the principal reasons for this change of attitude is the perceived politicizing of religious faith on the part of Christians,

Whereas, this perception will only be reinforced by the passages of such resolutions as that issued by the House today, not challenged,

Resolved, that I recognize such resolutions to be worse than futile to the efforts of Christians, but in fact, ultimately self-destructive, and that I anticipate living in an America in which Christians can be similarly classed by House resolution as a minority within fifteen years.

Other Comments by quill

31. Comment #97996 by GodlessHeathen on December 13, 2007 at 1:13 am

Dear Heather Wilson, Representative from New Mexico district one;

I would like to congratulate you on voting "Yes" on H. Res. 847.

In doing so you have helped point out the obvious, that there are many Christians in the United States, and that Christmas is important to them. That took great courage.

You have also helped marginalize minority faiths and non-faiths. I'm certain it is appreciated by all the Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Atheists and other non-Christians that our House of Representatives spent precious time comforting the vast majority of Bible-believing Christians who no doubt, as this fine country's most powerful majority, regularly feel the sting of having their representatives scoff at their beliefs and proclaim them to be "unpatriotic" and doubt that they are even deserving of citizenship.

I also commend you on your fine interpretation of the establishment clause of the first amendment to the country's Constitution, and to the vast number of documents and precedence that followed that are often seen (apparently incorrectly) as proof that our founding fathers wanted to separate church and state as a means to protect religion from being used as a tool for state tyranny.

We all know this was a Christian nation from the start, which is why such religious wording as "In God We Trust" didn't appear on our nation's currency for over a century after the Constitution was ratified, or that the Pledge of Allegiance had no mention of God in it until so much later.

Your choice on voting yes on HR847 makes me happy. Happy that you've come to the end of your term limit and I won't have to see you wrecking the very ideals that made this country truly great and free so you could pander to a bunch of fanatics. Bye!

--Godless Heathen

Other Comments by GodlessHeathen

32. Comment #98003 by quill on December 13, 2007 at 1:29 am

GodlessHeathen, that was brilliant. I hope you won't mind if I email a copy to my own Representative, the honorable Timothy V. Johnson of Illinois District Fifteen.

(Edit: Actually, upon checking, he was one of the 40 representatives who did not vote.)

Other Comments by quill

33. Comment #98010 by paulwwww on December 13, 2007 at 1:41 am

This sure in the hell don't pass Constitutional muster. Idiots, glad to see my man Ron Paul from Texas voted no, good ol Dr. No.

Other Comments by paulwwww

34. Comment #98041 by GodlessHeathen on December 13, 2007 at 2:50 am

Quill; You or anyone who thinks that little screed of mine worth using on their representative has my full permission to use it. =^_^=

Other Comments by GodlessHeathen

35. Comment #98077 by stephenray on December 13, 2007 at 3:44 am

It's ironic, innit?

We have an established church here in the UK but if we assigned a factor of 100 to the obsession with religion in US politics, the factor over here would be about 2.

It's the education, I reckon. Generations of kids have grown up in the US without learning any analytical skills.

Other Comments by stephenray

36. Comment #98081 by Nefrubyr on December 13, 2007 at 3:48 am

5. Comment #97935 by Mewtwo_X

I'd ask when resolutions for any of the other organized religions and their established religions were going to come out, but we already know the answer to that one...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-635
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-747

Other Comments by Nefrubyr

37. Comment #98083 by Pob on December 13, 2007 at 3:55 am

I am surprised that this forum is not expressing more outrage at this resolution. Most people who have commented on it so far seem to think that it is just a vacuous statement of the obvious, which on the face of it is true, but try reading the following amended version:

The House of Representatives
(1) recognizes white as one of the great skin colors of the world;
(2) expresses continued support for white people in the United States and worldwide;
(3) acknowledges the international cultural and historical importance of white skin;
(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by white people in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;
(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against white people, both in the United States and worldwide; and
(6) expresses its deepest respect to white Americans and white people throughout the world.

Since the above makes no reference to black people, are we to assume that it is not offensive to them? Of course not! If this resolution had been passed there would be total outrage, and rightly so.

By expressing respect for Christians specifically and by rejecting bigotry against Christianity specifically, the House implicitly disrespects non-Christians and is in danger of implicitly condoning other types of bigotry. No doubt most of those who voted yes would say otherwise, but if all Americans deserve respect regardless of their religion, sexuality, skin color or whatever, then why not say so? Or, better still, why not shut up and get on with the proper job of legislating?

Other Comments by Pob

38. Comment #98084 by scott715 on December 13, 2007 at 3:57 am

Once again, my elected representatives show that they only thing that can vote on, and pass is something either entirely useless at best or harmful and destructive at worst. It is part of why I moved to Russia and don't vote anymore. The only way I would vote is if they had a "none of the above" option.

At least in Russia they don't even pretend to be a democracy anymore. Don't these morons know that once they get America declared a theocracy the different sects will start to kill each other off in a fight for dominance? Probably the Southern Baptists will win and Utah will become a separate country. Depressing

Other Comments by scott715

39. Comment #98096 by Jamougha on December 13, 2007 at 4:29 am

staphenray,

We have an established church here in the UK but if we assigned a factor of 100 to the obsession with religion in US politics, the factor over here would be about 2.

I don't think it's a coincidence. If you want people to hate something, force it on them.

Other Comments by Jamougha

40. Comment #98097 by Beer-monster on December 13, 2007 at 4:32 am

Seems like pointless political pandering. If you look at the words there is nothing there a politician could hope to disagree on and still keep there seat. Even I find some of the points impossible to argue against.

This seems like a good point to bring up something an American friend mentioned to me. Even though the federal constitution could be interpreted as secular, many state constitutions, which define the laws of that state, are not.

Article II of the Massachussets state constitution:

It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.

And others. Could someone in The US explain how this reflects the assertion that the USA is a secular not a christian country, because right now I'm confused.

Other Comments by Beer-monster

41. Comment #98109 by CJ22 on December 13, 2007 at 4:48 am

why I moved to Russia and don't vote anymore

Way to over-react ;)

Other Comments by CJ22

42. Comment #98118 by notsobad on December 13, 2007 at 5:18 am

2,000,000,000 haha
I bet at least 50% couldn't even tell you the first commandment.
More insecure bragging.

Other Comments by notsobad

43. Comment #98132 by Rationalist1 on December 13, 2007 at 6:07 am

Now is the time to bring to a vote the infamous Indiana Pi bill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill). In today's climate it's sure to pass.

Other Comments by Rationalist1

44. Comment #98138 by Ohnhai on December 13, 2007 at 6:12 am

Interesting that those two other bills passed with no 'Nay's .... Christmass has less support than those other religions? interesting....

We need to get a bill pased for Pastafarianism, or the holy church of the Jedi. if we can then that prety much undermines the value of said resolutions.

Other Comments by Ohnhai

45. Comment #98140 by strick09 on December 13, 2007 at 6:15 am

Wow.

This clearly violates the establishment clause, as it both recognizes and endorses one specific religion to the exclusion of others.

I did find the line of "persecution and bigotry against Christians" both humorous and wholly unnecessary. Saying that is kind of like telling the Ku Klux Klan "Hey guys, we're sorry you were beat up when you were kids".

As stupid as this bill is, I'm still more worried by the I.D. / Evolution scandals that have been going on in Texas and are beginning in Florida. I swear, if I.D. becomes a requirement in our schools, I am claiming religious asylum and expatriating.

Other Comments by strick09

46. Comment #98141 by debaser71 on December 13, 2007 at 6:17 am

This is why I fight.

The next person who suggests that I just sit back and take it...I'm gonna gonna gonna...talk to them.

Other Comments by debaser71

47. Comment #98148 by JFHalsey on December 13, 2007 at 6:25 am

I truly, honestly thought this was a prank. Until I saw the url it came from.

I really can't believe this.

It reminds me of how we always laugh about the evangelical image of a God who will help you through traffic to get to work on time or help you get the mustard out of your shirt, but won't lift a finger to help starving children in Africa. Well, here we have our elected representatives too busy patting their intrest groups on the back to take care of global warming or increasing turmoil in the Middle East. What a FUCKING JOKE!

Other Comments by JFHalsey

48. Comment #98149 by funkyderek on December 13, 2007 at 6:28 am

This seems to have no purpose other than to piss on the First Amendment. Nothing will change, there will be no more funding for Christian endeavours, Christians will not receive preferential treatment and non-Christians will not be discriminated against.
All it will serve to do is alienate non-Christians. Do America's lawmakers not have better things to do with their time?

Other Comments by funkyderek

49. Comment #98151 by John Done on December 13, 2007 at 6:32 am

Regardless of the political significance of this decision, it is a clear indication of where the loyalty of most Americans is: not in Washington, but in a "kingdom not of this world". For such an otherworldly ideology it sure does have a lot of influence in real life. Anyone who says that religion is basically harmless is not only blatantly ignoring the reality of 9/11, but the very condition of American life, both in politics and everyday life. It is not because of an obsession with thoughtcrime that we concern ourselves with other people's beliefs, but because of the effects the mere use of the word "God" implies, even without a specific religious context. To be a theist in America is to say "I am special and you are not, and remember, I'm humble" whereas any atheist saying the same thing (apart from being a rare individual talking out of his ass) is immediately called out not only for that, but for simply not subscribing to any mythology or superstition.

Even if this vote is technically unimportant and changes nothing (or so I hope; there'd better not be anyone "enforcing" this in any way), it is a clear violation of he constitution. To mark any religion as special (simply for being the majority, the DUMBEST reason for ANY decision ANYWHERE,) implies that its subscribers are in some way superior or at least different politically from anyone else. Of course Christians have played an important role, if not particularly good because of religion; religious people are everywhere, and have the same abilities as everybody else. Why state the obvious? Selecting anyone for special notice violates the Establishment Clause, the FIRST THING MENTIONED IN THE CONSTITUTION.

If anyone has any care for anything other than Jesus' satisfaction with their earthly lives, they should realize how dangerous this kind of political recognition could become. It had better be a harmless promclamation striken off as unconstitutional immediately. If not, the word "persecution" may become a very real thing in America.

Other Comments by John Done

50. Comment #98153 by USA_Limey on December 13, 2007 at 6:37 am

I wouldn't get too exited about this.

If you are a congresswoman from back of beyond nowheresville Oklahoma you can put forward a house resolution that Cow Shit is the best thing since pig shit and it will get voted on.

A member of congress can't be seen to have NOT voted for this resolution; but it means nothing in practical terms. Political postering only, rest easy folks.

Other Comments by USA_Limey