Monday, December 17, 2007 | Reason : Commentary | print version

God rest you merry atheist

by Libby Purves, Times Online

Reposted from:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article3065649.ece

What with all the crowds and the shopping and the formulation of complex family Christmas treaties, you may have missed the enchanting news about Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion. In a good mood Professor Dawkins dismisses all faith as "harmless nonsense... the great cop-out". In a bad mood he tends to call it a wicked, "infectious virus". He is not shy to air his views on the subject.

At which point I should say that - though not wholly of his mind - I actually have a lot of time for the Dawk. Organised religions do often abuse their position and their followers, and need to be told so; and his thesis is far more intelligently based than the infantile vitriol of Christopher Hitchens or the sneering cool of most media atheism. Moreover, Professor Dawkins' recent programmes on New Age superstition were more than welcome: the best TV moment of the year was the sight of a dishevelled woman earnestly explaining what DNA was - to the great biologist! - and then offering to "replace" the missing DNA from Atlantis, putting it into his cells by wiggling her fingers and blowing at him. I could watch that clip all day, just for his face.

But the really fabulous news I mentioned is that Richard Dawkins, Prophet of Atheism, has said in a BBC interview that he is not against "cultural" Christianity and "Yes, I like singing carols along with everyone else". Which raises enough tantalising philosophical and ethical questions to keep us going till Christmas Eve. Dawkins sings carols? Does he sing all the words? Does he boom out lines about herald angels, holy nights, the tender Lamb promised from eternal years? Does he croon: "What can I give Him, poor as I am?" Does the polemicist who gave three eloquent pages to deconstructing the story of St Luke's Gospel happily warble O Little Town of Bethlehem and Once in Royal David's City? Does the man who says that religious education is tantamount to "child abuse" feel wholly comfortable crooning Away in a Manger?

Or does he censor the words? Do neighbours at Oxford carol concerts suddenly become aware that one pleasing baritone has abruptly dropped out before the first "O come let us adore him" and failed to return for the final fortissimo? How can his famous, well-modulated voice choke out the word "adore", apropos a God he calls a "misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully"?

Well, you see the pleasure. Rewriting the Dawkins carol sheet could keep us all busy. "God rest ye merry Gentlemen, pass on your DNA/ For genes are strong and se-el-fish and will find out a way"... "Silent night, Science is right"... "Away in a helix, no crib for a bed/ The little Lord Genome laid down its sweet head..." It gets tricky; I am having some trouble with the scansion of "While Schrödinger watched his cat by night", but I'll get there.

But leave the poor man alone. The point is that he obligingly raises the more general question of how the unbeliever, the half-believer and the ex-believer should treat the cultural heritage of Christianity, especially at Christmas. As Aled Jones and Katie Melua averred on the Today programme yesterday, the carols are good tunes and fun to sing, and you needn't be immensely religious to enjoy them. I am certainly not naive enough to believe that everyone who sings them is burning with faith. Some are, and thus have no problem with the adoring, but I suspect that many approach carols in a spirit of cautious unexpressed hope - willing to leave the door just a crack open to the possibility that there might be something or Someone out there, beyond it all, incapable of being pinned down by science or reason but nonetheless wonderful and benign. That, combined with a certain respect for the generations who went before and a wistful longing for the "hopes and fears of all the years" to be resolved one day, whether before death or after, is a reasonable spirit in which to have a good old sing at Christmas.

But if you loudly and repeatedly make a career of denying any possibility at all of the reality of God, how honest is it to sing? How easy to reconcile? How insulting to those who mean every word of it? One can obviously do a bit of sectarian tourism: once at supper with the Chief Rabbi I did sing along with the Yiddish grace-after-meals. But then I am broadly a deist, and if Jonathan Sacks was prepared to tolerate our inaccurate pronunciation and weak grip of the tune, it seemed fair enough for dinner guests to give it a spin. Likewise I admit that the two million of us who sang "Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set!" on The Mall in Jubilee year didn't honestly want to reconquer India.

But there are limits. If I found myself at a Nazi rally I would not sing the Horst-Wessel-Lied; if I were with the Druids at Stonehenge I doubt that I would don a sheet and join in hymns to the rising sun or whatever, because I think it is all fabricated modern nonsense. And if suddenly transported to that American church where they sing "God hates fags" (it's on Faith Central blog, click and see) and someone passed me a hymn sheet, I wouldn't join in. Not even hum along, however catchy the tune.

Well, it's something to think about in the pre-Christmas queues. Can you sing something while meaning the opposite? Can Professor Dawkins be truly merry at a carol concert while publicly excoriating the "time-consuming, wealth-consuming, hostility-provoking rituals and anti-factual counter-productive fantasies of religion..."?

Or should he stay true to himself, and stick to a verse or two of Frosty the Snowman?

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1. Comment #99836 by The Reverend Dark on December 17, 2007 at 4:50 pm

I think Libby is getting a nice load of coal in the Merry old Stocking.

And if lucky, Santa's foot sunk kidney deep in the merry olde arse.

I doubt the old sock has fully read the God Delusion - if so, it is rather deliberately misrepresented.

The Reverend Shayne Dark

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2. Comment #99842 by jaytee_555 on December 17, 2007 at 5:02 pm

Mmm....sort of stuff you'd expect from a 5th form schoolkid who hoped to be a journalist one day.....and the arrogance to criticise Christopher Hitchens as "infantile". Jeez!

Libby Purves' delusions of grandeur are misplaced. I'm not even convinced she's entitled to delusions of adequacy.

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3. Comment #99845 by Cartomancer on December 17, 2007 at 5:09 pm

I hope to make a career denouncing popular misrepresentations of the Middle Ages. Does this mean I am forbidden from finding Monty Python and the Holy Grail funny?

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4. Comment #99846 by Richard Morgan on December 17, 2007 at 5:09 pm

So the sneering critic of "faith-heads" is happy to sing "Oh come all ye faithful?"

Shouldn't it be : "Oh, come on, all ye faithful"?
Would he teach carols to children? Or is carol-singing to be restricted to consenting adults?

Cartomancer :
I hope to make a career denouncing popular misrepresentations of the Middle Ages. Does this mean I am forbidden from finding Monty Python and the Holy Grail funny?

No. It means that you've had lousy career counselling.

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

5. Comment #99849 by Cartomancer on December 17, 2007 at 5:18 pm

Career what now?

Other Comments by Cartomancer

6. Comment #99855 by Chispita on December 17, 2007 at 5:33 pm

How difficult is it to understand? You can't erase two thousand years of traditions, silly as they may be, in a few generations. Most of us grew up in families that sang carols, put up mangers, exchanged gifts and ate the same traditional foods during this time. I still do it and will probably continue to enjoy it for as long as I live. Changing the world takes at least a few hundred years.

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7. Comment #99859 by Richard Morgan on December 17, 2007 at 5:45 pm

Chispita : I still do it and will probably continue to enjoy it for as long as I live.

But will you teach your children to sing "Away in a manger" and "Once in Royal David's City"? If so, how will you explain the words to them?

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

8. Comment #99860 by Goldy on December 17, 2007 at 5:48 pm

Never mind the words to hymns - how about describing "the Old Lady that lived in a Shoe"? Or Goosey Goosey Gander? Ring a Ring a Roses? Or the last lines of Oranges and Lemons?
All songs I sing to my daughter to get her to sleep....

Other Comments by Goldy

9. Comment #99863 by Cartomancer on December 17, 2007 at 5:50 pm

In the same way, I suspect, she will explain the words in the Iliad or the Odyssey - as fictional concepts produced by a culture that believed some funny things. The rhythm and metre and tone and rhyme sound nice even if the words are utter gibberish, and some of the sentiments can be taken as powerful metaphors for important or comforting ideas.

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10. Comment #99864 by moniz on December 17, 2007 at 5:50 pm

As an atheist I still say "oh my god" because it's still part of our cultural vocabulary. My sister will claim I can't say that as an atheist, as it admits some sort of belief. I once had a friend say that she didn't believe I was an atheist. She was surprised that I was annoyed. I asked her how she would feel if I told her I thought her belief in the catholic faith wasn't real, and she understood right away what she had said was offensive.

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11. Comment #99865 by Richard Morgan on December 17, 2007 at 5:51 pm

Goldy - I don't thinking people are throwing bombs at each other over the tenancy rights of female senior citizens living in over-sized Reeboks...

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12. Comment #99866 by Goldy on December 17, 2007 at 5:55 pm

No - but "Here is a candle to light you to bed, Here comes a chopper to chop of your head!" is very conducive to gentle sleeping :-)
As it is, all the words of the carols are of good news and happiness - again, hardly conducive to killing each other. But we do... ho hum...
When they're old enough, we teach them. They'll also learn that that fat bloke doesn't exist, subsequent pulling of teeth doesn't result in financial gain (quite the opposite!) and that what Tom and Jerry do doesn't really portray real life...

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13. Comment #99870 by Richard Morgan on December 17, 2007 at 6:01 pm

You guys (RD included) really don't see the hypocrisy in all you're saying about "cultural Christianity", do you?
So - let me get it right:
Fundamental Christianity bad;
Moderate Christianity is bad (leaves the door open for the extremists);
Cultural Christianity is OK (doesn't leave any doors open for the moderates).
I rest my case.

I'll ask my local priest if he wouldn't mind putting on a special Midnight Mass for Atheists. Book your places now.

EDIT : Goldy :"As it is, all the words of the carols are of good news" And what, pray is the good news referred to in these carols? It sure ain't Ronald Macdonald...

(Oh shit, wrong thread...oops!)

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

14. Comment #99873 by kaiserkriss on December 17, 2007 at 6:05 pm

First things first: Welcome back RICHARD MORGAN!!!

Now on to Libby: She totally misses the point and is obviously trying to fill a column with a favorite whipping boy.

Just because I also happen to like Power Metal does not mean I'll start worshipping Thor and the other Nordic gods.jcw

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15. Comment #99875 by skepticato on December 17, 2007 at 6:08 pm

Richard - I'm having a hard time understanding why you're so against songs/music/art that comes from a Christian tradition. Maybe you can clarify your position a bit so we know what about this particular issue is so offensive to you. Do you despise Michelango's work on the Sistine Chapel ceiling as well? Or can you appreciate that for it's artistic merits? Also, do you have a problem with "secular" christmas songs like "Here Comes Santa Claus" or "Silver Bells"?

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16. Comment #99876 by Cartomancer on December 17, 2007 at 6:10 pm

There is no hypocrisy at all in the idea of "cultural christianity". It's not "one step down from moderate christianity" as you seem to imply, but taking the materials of christianity and viewing them in a very different way. It is treating christian myths and vocabularies honestly and rationally - as subjective cultural forms we have unconsciously picked up. It recognises and institutionalises christian rhetoric as an empty part of the world around us - keeps it ossified as meaningless gesture, tradition for the sake of tradition and a reminder of an anachronistic past. It is perfectly possible to repeat formulas you do not yourself believe to be true without hypocrisy, as long as you do not intimate that you do believe them to be true.

Am I hypocritical for singing the songs of the Carmina Burana when I do not really believe that there is some tyrannical cosmic Empress Fortune ruling the universe, who breaks the destinies of men upon her wheel? Am I allowed to read Tolkien when I do not believe that Middle Earth ever existed?

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17. Comment #99879 by TSkidC on December 17, 2007 at 6:16 pm

I must admit I had an initial negative reaction to both the comments by the four horsemen around Christmas as well as to Richard's comments on being a cultural Christian. As I have thought of why I am having this reaction when others are not, I realized that it may be because I used to be a firm believer in the fundamentalist Christian world. When I rejected that belief system, I wanted to distance myself from it entirely. So, to even think of singing Christmas carols is repugnant. But it may be a matter of one's starting point. To those who have always considered the story of Jesus as something less than the literal truth, and who have not grown up in the world of fundamentalism, this may simply be a matter of participating in a cultural event. For those of us who have been in that world and have rejected it, there will possibly always be a negative emotional reaction to the thought of participating in it again -- even just as a cultural phenomenon.

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18. Comment #99881 by Richard Morgan on December 17, 2007 at 6:19 pm

Ok, skepticato, that is a reasonable question. I am not "against" songs or music or art that come from ANY religious tradition. And I most certainly don't despise them, though I admit my language is often of a spiteful nature. (Thank you for pointing that out to me.) My problem is with the (apparent) hypocrisy of those who violently condemn what they call "moderate religion" but in the name of culture and tradition (and good nosh, booze and a family knees-up)actually take part in the rituals, thus perpetuating them.

I have never said "Bah, humbug" to Christmas - rituals and festivities are vital to healthy civilizations.

But as to singing "Oh come all ye faithful" with the faith-heads, well I have a problem with that.

EDIT : Poor ol' Cartomancer. Getting everything mixed up again. Fiction is written as fiction. Religious texts are written as religious truths.
You cannot compare the two.
Could you justify singing Nazi songs in the same way? ("Of course, I don't really mean it, but it's a nice tune, and culturally interesting and I am distancing myself from it.")
Aw, come on...

Other Comments by Richard Morgan

19. Comment #99883 by NakedCelt on December 17, 2007 at 6:23 pm

Does no-one but me find "God rest ye merry gentlemen, pass on your DNA" funny?

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20. Comment #99884 by Cartomancer on December 17, 2007 at 6:24 pm

I guess you just see the mere act of speaking the words as a mark of sincerity, where most of us do not. They're not magic spells, they're formulaic songs with an obvious context and heritage. If you were painting a landscape of London's skyline would you stubbornly refuse to include St. Pauls because its image is important to christians? If you were writing a history of western civilisation would you deliberately fail to include and and all references to Jesus, the Catholic church and any religious items because christians venerate these things?

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21. Comment #99886 by Dr Benway on December 17, 2007 at 6:31 pm

Does the man who says that religious education is tantamount to "child abuse" feel wholly comfortable crooning Away in a Manger?

My brother used to sing, "Mark the hairlipped angel sings 'Gwory to da newworn king!'" My very young sister used to sing, for reasons unfathomable, "Good King Whatsis lost his spoon, playing on the lawn."

Ah, good times.

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22. Comment #99887 by Goldy on December 17, 2007 at 6:32 pm

Richard, it is hypocritical to sing the songs and mean it. Mouthing along out of politeness less so.
Shit, they're just songs that come around this time of year. Some sing them because of the memories they hold. Others have their own reasons. When new songs come out that are better, we'll sing them. Happy?

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23. Comment #99888 by Richard Morgan on December 17, 2007 at 6:36 pm

My last word in this ridiculous debate : Thank heavens for Dr Benway.

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24. Comment #99889 by Dr Benway on December 17, 2007 at 6:37 pm

I see you're not dead yet, matie!

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25. Comment #99890 by Satanburiedfossils on December 17, 2007 at 6:40 pm

I'm reminded of a silly joke:

Three men tragically die in a car accident during the Holiday season and soon find themselves at the Pearly Gates, with St. Peter standing out front.

Peter says to the men, "Since this is Christmastime, you must each produce something that represents this glorious time of year."

The first man digs in his pocket and comes out with a lighter.

"This represents a candle" he says..

"You may now enter the kingdom of Heaven" says Peter.

The second man reaches into his pocket and pulls out a set of keys. He shakes them and says, "These represent bells."

"Welcome to Heaven," says Peter.

The third man reaches into his pocket and pulls out a pair of women's underwear.

"These are Carol's."

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26. Comment #99893 by kaiserkriss on December 17, 2007 at 6:54 pm

As a 6 year old, I used to sing "Sleep in heavenly peas" both in English and German; Schlaf' in himmlischen Erbsen." jcw

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27. Comment #99897 by Inferno on December 17, 2007 at 7:15 pm

Think of all the pop songs you sing along with, do you necessarily agree with all the words? If I sing the words... "I shot a man in Rio just to watch him die", does this mean I really did or want to?

If I watch The Terminator and cheer each time Arnie kills some innocent civilians, does this mean I want a nuclear armageddon and to declare war on humans?

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28. Comment #99898 by BAEOZ on December 17, 2007 at 7:21 pm

I shot a man in Rio just to watch him die", does this mean I really did or want to?

Only if you shot him in Reno.

If I watch The Terminator and cheer each time Arnie kills some innocent civilians, does this mean I want a nuclear armageddon and to declare war on humans?

Booyeah!

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29. Comment #99901 by phasmagigas on December 17, 2007 at 7:32 pm

most secular brits are cultural christians by default, only the most jaded atheist would honestly bear a grudge against those who wished him/her a merry xmas, its so normalised that youd make yourself very unpopular if you didnt return the greetings although if the same person heard you deriding christianity the same day they might well feel you were being reasonable.

This xmas i will be in the UK, its about merry making and making the most of the short days, about seeing my family. i personally dont sing carols but i did go to a carol concert a couple of years ago, a nice tune is a nice tune. one of my favourite hymns from my school days was 'god is love:his the care' I like the melody, reminds me of something i imagine youd hear in the middle ages, the lads in school would always lower their voices (well as far as a 5-9 year old can) with the 'praise him' bit at the end whereas the girls (and am i right in thinking it was boys on the right, girls on the left, hom,ho, ho, how bloody quaint is that??) would sing the line beginnnings in higer pitches (kind of a boy/girl battle) anyway daily hymns and prayers didnt make any difference to me, i never took them as anything more than songs, good job i didnt make anything of the boy/girl divisions too otherwise i could now be a misogynist, conservative bigot.

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30. Comment #99902 by He-man Daunted World on December 17, 2007 at 7:34 pm

Does the man who says that religious education is tantamount to "child abuse" ...

Argh!

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31. Comment #99903 by mmurray on December 17, 2007 at 7:42 pm

I personally don't want to lend them any support. While the churches remain full of happy carol singers at Christmas the Church will think it is still winning. When it is all over and really is history I will be happy to sing. While the symbols still mean something I don't want to use them.

I also would rather not confuse my children by having mangers and christian symbols all over the place and then trying to explain to them that its traditional cultural context.

Would you say grace if someone asked (RD does). Would you say `amen' if someone else said grace. Would you get married in a church because it has such lovely stained glass windows ? Put a crucifix on your gravestone because it is traditiional ?

Some really needs to write `Etiquette for Atheists' :-)

Michael

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32. Comment #99915 by Dr Benway on December 17, 2007 at 8:33 pm

I also would rather not confuse my children by having mangers and christian symbols all over the place and then trying to explain to them that its traditional cultural context.

Remember that the Christians stole midwinter's celebration from many other tribes. Holly, mistletoe, yule log - all pre-Christian.

"Santa" with his jolly red suit and sleigh of eight flying reindeer was an invention of the Coke-Cola Bottling Co. If you don't like it, select another story for the kids.

The Norse spoke of Beiwe, the sun-goddess of fertility and sanity who travels through the sky in a structure made of reindeer bones with her daughter, Beiwe-Neia, to herald back the greenery on which the reindeer feed. On the winter solstice, her worshipers cover their doorposts with butter so Beiwe can eat it and begin her journey once again.

If you find the image of a woman licking butter off doorposts around town unsettling, invent your own tale. Make a manger with a baby Jesus and a chimney for Santa. Lamby, Jesus' favorite pet, nuzzles Jesus' cheek gently. Jesus can't sleep because he's expecting Santa to bring him a shiny new bike! Jesus was kind enough to leave a butter cookie for Santa on a box with a note saying, "Thanks in advance for your help."

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33. Comment #99916 by tybowen on December 17, 2007 at 8:41 pm

I think it also depends on the intent of singing the carol. If you are just singing around the piano at a christmas party that is a very different thing then singing the carols in a christmas day mass. I think christmas is a fun part of the western culture and can be enjoyed with just santa and family togetherness. Singing can bring the family together and if its all in good fun, then its all in good fun. As for hypocrisy, I find it much more devious and underhanded for a creationist to go to a hospital or doctor to receive treatment when they deny the basics of biology.

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34. Comment #99922 by monkey2 on December 17, 2007 at 9:10 pm

I suspect [but I'm not sure] that many [perhaps a thousand?] approach carols in a spirit of cautious [I may well be wrong] unexpressed [wouldn't admit to it out loud] hope [it might be kind of nice if maybe it could be true] - willing to leave the door just a crack open [only a crack please - that' all it's worth and it's cold outside] to the possibility [the ghost of a chance] that there might [on the off chance] be something or Someone out there [can't think what it might be], beyond it all [can't think where it might be], incapable of being pinned down [unimaginable?] by science or reason [more difficult to understand than quantum physics ] but nonetheless [despite my own mind boggling uncertainty] wonderful and benign [as opposed to the vindictive and malignant Judeo/ Christian God].

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35. Comment #99924 by Diacanu on December 17, 2007 at 9:24 pm

How insulting to those who mean every word of it?

Well, you'll need a mind-reading helmet to determine who those people actually are.

How many are going with the flow?

I know I always was.

And insulting?? Grow up.
Safe to say no adults believe in Santa Claus.
Should every adult who sings "here comes Santa Claus", feel ashamed to sing it around children who believe in him?

Once again, the low standards of journalism pump me full of despair. :(

Other Comments by Diacanu

36. Comment #99925 by gkkalai on December 17, 2007 at 9:41 pm

This article is by far the most stupid.This writer tells that you can't appreciate music and art unless you experience it.I assume that writer enjoys every fiction novel as being real!!!

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37. Comment #99926 by Dr Benway on December 17, 2007 at 9:49 pm

I rather like Handel's Messiah, especially the bit that goes, "And He shall purify the sons of Levi that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness." The words do nothing for me but the cascading voices are wonderful.

The Messiah provokes in me a feeling that life is perfect and complete. However it only works for me once a year at the most.

Believers and non-believers sing carols for the same feel-good go-with-the-flow reasons. This is trivially easy to demonstrate. Ask the average bloke who "the sons of Levi" are.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

38. Comment #99934 by Bonzai on December 17, 2007 at 10:32 pm

Remember that the Christians stole midwinter's celebration from many other tribes. Holly, mistletoe, yule log - all pre-Christian.

Speaking of winter celebrations I wonder what it would feel like to have Christmas in the summer like the Australians.

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39. Comment #99940 by robotaholic on December 17, 2007 at 10:47 pm

I hate religion so much. It complicates.

Other Comments by robotaholic

40. Comment #99941 by Gmork on December 17, 2007 at 11:08 pm

Isn't this the same as appreciating the art of artists who use drugs to be creative? ;)

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41. Comment #99942 by KiwiInOz on December 17, 2007 at 11:13 pm

Bonzai - it's hot! And in Brisbane we often have thunderstorms to boot.

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42. Comment #99943 by Diacanu on December 17, 2007 at 11:20 pm

The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes all these knee-jerk op-eds come from that religion really, really is not used to being criticized the way it has been lately.

It goes against all the false intuitions most people have had beaten into their heads all these years.

All the crappy arguments are attempts to rationalize that gut reaction.

Other Comments by Diacanu

43. Comment #99946 by flying goose on December 17, 2007 at 11:48 pm

Dr Benway

Remember that the Christians stole midwinter's celebration from many other tribes. Holly, mistletoe, yule log - all pre-Christian.

Did the builders of Avebury Stone circle steal an idea from the tomb builders of West Kennett when they built the cove, or does it represent the continuation?

Other Comments by flying goose

44. Comment #99947 by epeeist on December 17, 2007 at 11:54 pm

Comment #99926 by Dr Benway

I rather like Handel's Messiah, especially the bit that goes, "And He shall purify the sons of Levi that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness." The words do nothing for me but the cascading voices are wonderful.

Even better when you are in a choir singing it. One of the great pieces of music, not quite of the sublime nature of the "St. Matthews Passion".

Personally I find most hymns and carols from the 19th century onwards mawkish and sentimental, Christina Rossetti's "In the Bleak Midwinter" is the worst for precipitating the gag reflex.

Other Comments by epeeist

45. Comment #99949 by epicure on December 18, 2007 at 12:03 am

I doubt that I would don a sheet and join in hymns to the rising sun or whatever, because I think it is all fabricated modern nonsense.

And the difference is? OK, so most religion is not modern, but surely we can agree it's all fabricated nonsense?

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46. Comment #99951 by octopus on December 18, 2007 at 12:06 am

But the really fabulous news I mentioned is that Richard Dawkins, Prophet of Atheism, has said in a BBC interview that he is not against "cultural" Christianity and "Yes, I like singing carols along with everyone else".

Errr...is this really the news? I thought RD had mentioned it in one of his books, but perhaps my mind is playing tricks with me.

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47. Comment #99963 by Incredulous on December 18, 2007 at 1:40 am

Comment #99951 Octupus.

Errr...is this really the news? I thought RD had mentioned it in one of his books, but perhaps my mind is playing tricks with me.

I don't think it is octopus. RD has never made secret the fact that this country's language and cultural heritage is largely christian or biblically influenced. Given that many shclars don't know whether Christ was born on 25th Dec and Christmas could have conveniently hijacked earlier pagan rituals, I'm not sure what the fuss is all about having fun singing carols and enjoying christmas for whatever you want it to be. I certainly don't see merely having fun as being contradictory to one's true convictions or lack of convictions, rather.

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48. Comment #99964 by Monosilabbiq on December 18, 2007 at 1:43 am

I do like Mithrastide/Winter Solstice/Christmas. Everyone is so cheerful and generally nice to each other. It is a fun time of the year. And I have enjoyed reading the comments on this article.
Epicure was spot on for me. Libby sees a druid as a human invention but fails to make the logical step to appreciate the Abrahamic pantomimes in the same light.
I can only agree with Epeeist. Yes, the Messiah is wonderful to listen to and to sing. But the vast majority of carols - both music and lyrics (but especially the lyrics) - precipitate the gag reflex.
Inferno, the same goes for pop songs. If they are good musically then I will sing along. I boogeyed on down to "young, gifted and black" when one out of three seemed enough justification for me. But what the heck - I may try a few steps if I hear it at a party even though it is now none out of three.

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49. Comment #99965 by BMMcArdle on December 18, 2007 at 1:43 am

Santa Claus yes, baby Jesus no.

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50. Comment #99966 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 1:58 am

He can sing Christian mythology the same way anybody else can read Greek mythology and enjoy it.

While music of these songs is usually fine (e.g. Silent Night), lyrics are just boring.

BTW, I'd love to have Libby Purves' problems (and get paid for it).

Other Comments by notsobad