Login |
New User
Over 1.5 million copies sold
Books by Richard Dawkins
The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing
by Richard Dawkins
The Selfish Gene
by Richard Dawkins
The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
The Ancestor's Tale
by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow
by Richard Dawkins
Climbing Mount Improbable
by Richard Dawkins
Print
Clegg 'does not believe in God'
by BBC
Thanks to Ian Griffiths for the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7151346.stm
New Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has answered "no" when asked on BBC radio if he believed in God.
The rapid-fire question and answer format on 5 Live meant the 40-year-old did not have the chance to elaborate.
He later said he had "enormous respect for people who have religious faith", that his wife is Catholic and that his children are being brought up Catholic.
Last month, former PM Tony Blair said he had not talked much about this faith for fear of being labelled a "nutter".
Reshuffle
The radio interview with Mr Clegg, MP for Sheffield Hallam, came ahead of a reshuffle of the Lib Dem frontbench team expected over the next few days.
Asked whether he had ever taken illegal drugs, he replied: "I'm going to cast a veil over that. It's the one thing I agree with David Cameron on. I think politicians are entitled to a private life before they go into politics."
And asked if he believed in God, he said: "No."
In later comments to the BBC News website, Mr Clegg added: "I have enormous respect for people who have religious faith, I'm married to a Catholic and am committed to bringing my children up as Catholics.
"However, I myself am not an active believer, but the last thing I would do when talking or thinking about religion is approach it with a closed heart or a closed mind."
Mr Clegg was joined on his first day in the job by musician Brian Eno, whom he has brought in as an adviser on how to "reach out beyond Westminster to people who don't get a say in politics".
Mr Clegg said: "I will fight for a society where everyone gets a fair chance in life, and no-one is condemned by the circumstances of their birth.
"Education has got to be front and centre of Britain's agenda if we're going to make that happen. So I will raise funding for the poorest children to the levels in private schools.
"And every family must be free from poverty, and feel they have a voice, and a stake, in Britain today."
'People's politics'
Mr Clegg added: "That requires a new kind of politics - a people's politics. If politics is going to solve the problems of people's everyday lives, we need to listen to people, and act on what they say."
Later the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, reacted to Mr Clegg's declaration.
Dr Williams told Radio 5 Live presenter Simon Mayo: "It matters less to me than to know they are honest and reliable and that what beliefs they have they hold sincerely.
"This isn't a country where Christianity is imposed by law. It's a country with a nominally Christian majority. And that's good.
"And whoever becomes prime minister has to understand that and work with it rather than against the grain of it."
Last month, Mr Blair told the BBC his Christian faith had been "hugely important" to his premiership, but that he had been wary of discussing it in case he was labelled a "nutter".
His ex-spokesman Alastair Campbell once told reporters: "We don't do God."
Current Prime Minister Gordon Brown, the son of a church minister, is also a Christian who has spoken of his father's advice acting as his "moral compass".
Mr Clegg, an MP since 2005, beat Chris Huhne to the Lib Dem leadership by 20,988 votes to 20,477 - a margin of just 511.
Mr Clegg's election follows a two-month contest caused by the resignation of Sir Menzies Campbell.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7151346.stm
New Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has answered "no" when asked on BBC radio if he believed in God.The rapid-fire question and answer format on 5 Live meant the 40-year-old did not have the chance to elaborate.
He later said he had "enormous respect for people who have religious faith", that his wife is Catholic and that his children are being brought up Catholic.
Last month, former PM Tony Blair said he had not talked much about this faith for fear of being labelled a "nutter".
Reshuffle
The radio interview with Mr Clegg, MP for Sheffield Hallam, came ahead of a reshuffle of the Lib Dem frontbench team expected over the next few days.
Asked whether he had ever taken illegal drugs, he replied: "I'm going to cast a veil over that. It's the one thing I agree with David Cameron on. I think politicians are entitled to a private life before they go into politics."
And asked if he believed in God, he said: "No."
In later comments to the BBC News website, Mr Clegg added: "I have enormous respect for people who have religious faith, I'm married to a Catholic and am committed to bringing my children up as Catholics.
"However, I myself am not an active believer, but the last thing I would do when talking or thinking about religion is approach it with a closed heart or a closed mind."
Mr Clegg was joined on his first day in the job by musician Brian Eno, whom he has brought in as an adviser on how to "reach out beyond Westminster to people who don't get a say in politics".
Mr Clegg said: "I will fight for a society where everyone gets a fair chance in life, and no-one is condemned by the circumstances of their birth.
"Education has got to be front and centre of Britain's agenda if we're going to make that happen. So I will raise funding for the poorest children to the levels in private schools.
"And every family must be free from poverty, and feel they have a voice, and a stake, in Britain today."
'People's politics'
Mr Clegg added: "That requires a new kind of politics - a people's politics. If politics is going to solve the problems of people's everyday lives, we need to listen to people, and act on what they say."
Later the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, reacted to Mr Clegg's declaration.
Dr Williams told Radio 5 Live presenter Simon Mayo: "It matters less to me than to know they are honest and reliable and that what beliefs they have they hold sincerely.
"This isn't a country where Christianity is imposed by law. It's a country with a nominally Christian majority. And that's good.
"And whoever becomes prime minister has to understand that and work with it rather than against the grain of it."
Last month, Mr Blair told the BBC his Christian faith had been "hugely important" to his premiership, but that he had been wary of discussing it in case he was labelled a "nutter".
His ex-spokesman Alastair Campbell once told reporters: "We don't do God."
Current Prime Minister Gordon Brown, the son of a church minister, is also a Christian who has spoken of his father's advice acting as his "moral compass".
Mr Clegg, an MP since 2005, beat Chris Huhne to the Lib Dem leadership by 20,988 votes to 20,477 - a margin of just 511.
Mr Clegg's election follows a two-month contest caused by the resignation of Sir Menzies Campbell.
Add to del.icio.us
Posted: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 109 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #100768 by quill on December 19, 2007 at 10:04 am
He doesn't believe in God, but his kids are being brought up Catholic? Other Comments by quill
3. Comment #100769 by ingl0rius on December 19, 2007 at 10:05 am
Quill, that's exactly what I thought. Ian, I don't see how this is a good thing.Other Comments by ingl0rius
4. Comment #100771 by Matt7895 on December 19, 2007 at 10:06 am
I was glad to see he doesn't believe in God.However he seems to be 'an atheist but'. Having enormous respect for people of faith, bringing his kids up as Catholics... it's a shame.
Other Comments by Matt7895
5. Comment #100773 by somersetsimon on December 19, 2007 at 10:12 am
I have enormous respect for people who have religious faith, I'm married to a Catholic and am committed to bringing my children up as Catholics.
I guess the first point is just being pragmatic as a politician, but I can't comprehend how an atheist would be committed to bringing up his children as Catholics. Can anyone explain this logic?
If he is an atheist and his wife is Catholic, then it would be reasonable to expose the children to both points of view and let them decide for themselves when they are older. I wonder if they have decided that the children will also be forced to be Liberal Democrats?
Other Comments by somersetsimon
6. Comment #100774 by elise97 on December 19, 2007 at 10:13 am
He later said he had "enormous respect for people who have religious faith"...so do i, sort of. apart from their gormless delusional wishful thinking stupidity. oops he missed his chance to be totally honest there. nobody has to respect another persons faith.
Other Comments by elise97
7. Comment #100775 by Ian on December 19, 2007 at 10:14 am
In fairness, he doesn't have sole choice in how is children are raised - or would you prefer to unravel women's liberation?Also, I want people to grow out of religion, not to try to ban it.
Other Comments by Ian
8. Comment #100778 by artificialhabitat on December 19, 2007 at 10:16 am
his wife is Catholic and that his children are being brought up Catholic
There goes any hope that the Lib Dems might actually put up at least some token opposition to taxpayer funded faith schools
Other Comments by artificialhabitat
9. Comment #100779 by artificialhabitat on December 19, 2007 at 10:20 am
In fairness, he doesn't have sole choice in how is children are raised - or would you prefer to unravel women's liberation?
Also, I want people to grow out of religion, not to try to ban it.
Where in the above comments did anyone suggest banning religion or repealing women's rights?
We're talking about the children here. They may not get the chance to 'grow out of religion' if they are raised Catholic.
True - he doesn't have sole right to decide his children's upbringing. But neither does his wife.
Other Comments by artificialhabitat
10. Comment #100781 by USA_Limey on December 19, 2007 at 10:23 am
Political honesty in these matters is a long road and a tortuous process. Britain is much further along than the USA, but not as far as some European countries. Overall the trend is positive and inexorable.
Other Comments by USA_Limey
11. Comment #100784 by Rtambree on December 19, 2007 at 10:28 am
An "atheist but" is till better than a "I believe..."And how many votes will the Lib Dems get in secular UK? 10%? 15%?
Other Comments by Rtambree
12. Comment #100785 by SurfDude on December 19, 2007 at 10:29 am
Don't worry too much about the children. My brothers and I all went to mainstream Catholic schools at the insistence of my Irish mother and none of us are particularly religious (least of all me). It helped having a pragmatic father with a strongly agnostic scientific background. Nick Clegg strikes me as someone who will have a positive influence intellectually on his children.The truth is that most Catholic schools in the UK have very high educational standards and teach Evolutionary theory in science class and religion according to the national curriculum.
Other Comments by SurfDude
13. Comment #100787 by Kristian Z on December 19, 2007 at 10:32 am
I can see that this would be news-worthy if it was in America, but in the UK? I would have thought that non-religious politicians was as common as fish and chips over there.I can't see a thing like this getting column space in my own country, Norway. I'd be very surprised if most of our current government aren't non-religious. Hell, I'm pretty sure even our current minister of church affairs is an atheist, even if he's nominally a member of the Church of Norway.
Other Comments by Kristian Z
14. Comment #100789 by rnewson on December 19, 2007 at 10:36 am
For me, this is a net loss of respect for the LibDems. How can someone who doesn't believe in the Catholic doctrine (in all its insanity) allow his children to be taught it as fact?At best, it's not true and he said it to sound concilliatory (but dishonest). At worst, it's true and Nick Clegg is deeply conflicted.
Other Comments by rnewson
15. Comment #100791 by rnewson on December 19, 2007 at 10:38 am
"It's a country with a nominally Christian majority"One assumes that by "nominally", he means "assumed". Surely the evidence (there's that word again) does not support this statement?
Other Comments by rnewson
16. Comment #100793 by JammyB on December 19, 2007 at 10:41 am
You can send Nick a message on the Lib Dem website: http://www.libdems.org.uk/I've just sent one thanking him for being so honest. I hope it doesn't cost him votes - I wasn't planning to vote this time but this changed my mind. I'm not a huge fan of the Lib Dems but I think this news speaks a lot about his character.
Other Comments by JammyB
17. Comment #100794 by wombat on December 19, 2007 at 10:43 am
Not to worry, my daughter went to Catholic school and her mother is a devout Catholic. It drove her to atheism faster than the Four Horsemen combined could. Other Comments by wombat
18. Comment #100795 by MartinSGill on December 19, 2007 at 10:46 am
The LibDems are the only party I know of in UK politics that are determined to bring about a truly secular country.They're on record as wanting to disestablish the church and they're opposed to faith schools.
See the last couple of minutes (08:20) of this leadership hustings video (I wonder who sent in that question... ho hum... :P )
http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x877x_libdem_leadership-ehustings-2007/video/x3kmm7_personal-values_news
Other Comments by MartinSGill
19. Comment #100797 by Rtambree on December 19, 2007 at 10:47 am
I like your avatar, Wombat. They're a underrated animal.Other Comments by Rtambree
20. Comment #100800 by Ty_Webb on December 19, 2007 at 10:50 am
For me, this is a net loss of respect for the LibDems. How can someone who doesn't believe in the Catholic doctrine (in all its insanity) allow his children to be taught it as fact?
At best, it's not true and he said it to sound concilliatory (but dishonest). At worst, it's true and Nick Clegg is deeply conflicted.
I wouldn't worry too much rnewson. To paraphrase the immortal words of one Bartholomew J. Simpson, I have as much respect for the Lib Dems now as I ever have, or ever will.
Other Comments by Ty_Webb
21. Comment #100801 by bamafreethinker on December 19, 2007 at 10:51 am
I would also like to defend his comment on raising his kids Catholic. I've been a (closet) non-believer for about 5 years now and I am still searching for the perfect time/way to tell my kids, but my wife is a somewhat liberal (for the southern US anyway) Christian. And although I cringe every time I hear hell preached at our church, my wife and I have both decided to privately teach out kids to not worry about hell at all. Since my wife believes, it scares the hell (pardon) out of her to think about our kids missing the free ride to heaven – much more than it scares me for them to be taught the somewhat watered-down version of Christianity that our church promotes. Sure I could secretly pull my kids to the side and tell them it's all bunk, but I respect what if would do to my wife because she believes. The pain it would cause her is not worth it (at this point). The good news is that I see my wife's worldview becoming more and more secular and I will encourage her to study on her own. After all you can't force a believer to think a certain way – it's like spitting in the wind. The emotional stress that I would place on my kids if I told them is not something I will take lightly. It's very complicated and there's simply no right or wrong answer to it. It not like mommy believes Pepsi tastes best – daddy thinks Coke is better. There a lot of emotional baggage that goes with religion. Other Comments by bamafreethinker
22. Comment #100803 by Styrer- on December 19, 2007 at 11:04 am
Been quite a naughty boy in his youth, has our Nick. No bad thing, says I!Countdown to the faithheads attempting a connection with his atheism has just begun...!
Seriously, I think his atheism is of little real consequence (in the UK, unlike the situation you poor sods in the US must endure), but it's a welcome public factor in 'raising consciousness' that faith is not mandatory in high office here.
Blair's semi-paranoid hiding of his faith from the public arena appears even more unpleasantly furtive in light of this news. There was never anything particularly honest about Blair's reticence in this before (despite his nauseating 'I'm a pretty straightforward kind of guy' comment), so I'm enjoying the contrast here.
Best,
Styrer
Other Comments by Styrer-
23. Comment #100804 by Rationalist1 on December 19, 2007 at 11:05 am
I'm sure if Mr. Clegg had his way his children would not be brought up Catholic, but his open admission of non-belief is a positive role model for people and children everywhere.Other Comments by Rationalist1
24. Comment #100808 by epeeist on December 19, 2007 at 11:21 am
My father was a Catholic, my mother a nominal protestant. They married in a Catholic church and my mother had to commit to bringing children up as Catholics. This may be the case with Nick Clegg.Incidentally, my mother was not allowed to use the centre aisle in the church since she wasn't Catholic.
And since I am in story telling mode, I may as well finish it off. One of the priests visited us to find out why my brother hadn't been going to church. Seeing just the two children and a dog he told my mother she should get rid of the dog and consider having more children. Both she and the dog took exception to this and chased the priest down the garden path. Closing the gate behind him the priest turned and told me my mother that she would burn in hell. To which she responded that "she wouldn't be able to get near the fires for you buggers stoking it".
Other Comments by epeeist
25. Comment #100810 by MAS2007 on December 19, 2007 at 11:26 am
6. Comment #100774 by elise97 on December 19, 2007 at 10:13 am
He later said he had "enormous respect for people who have religious faith"...
so do i, sort of. apart from their gormless delusional wishful thinking stupidity. oops he missed his chance to be totally honest there. nobody has to respect another persons faith.
second motion
5. Comment #100773 by somersetsimon on December 19, 2007 at 10:12 am
I have enormous respect for people who have religious faith, I'm married to a Catholic and am committed to bringing my children up as Catholics.
I guess the first point is just being pragmatic as a politician, but I can't comprehend how an atheist would be committed to bringing up his children as Catholics. Can anyone explain this logic?
Example: It is like expecting a baby to get clean, after you let it pooh it the bath water.
If only the US was not in such a sorry state.
Other Comments by MAS2007
26. Comment #100818 by Naughty Mr Crocodile on December 19, 2007 at 11:40 am
This is definately good news, and yes, catholic schools are generally fairly watered down in religious terms.Just looked Cleggy up - apparantly he used to work for Hitchens - high five!
Other Comments by Naughty Mr Crocodile
27. Comment #100819 by mlb1984 on December 19, 2007 at 11:46 am
Can't imagine a politician saying "yes I do believe in God, but I have enormous respect for those who don't"Other Comments by mlb1984
28. Comment #100823 by Dr Benway on December 19, 2007 at 11:57 am
In later comments to the BBC News website, Mr Clegg added: "I have enormous respect for people who have religious faith, I'm married to a Catholic and am committed to bringing my children up as Catholics.The word "committed" is an overstatement and a mistake. The time is ripe for politicians to move a notch beyond the tedious bad faith everyone has come to expect. The days of massaging dissonance with eloquence are behind us. Kids today don't have time to write using entire words and sentences. They text, "R U 4 real?"
Mr. Clegg, you are young. Lose the blah blah blah and people will respond.
Rather than feigning respect for beliefs you don't hold, say something like: "I'm not a believer, but my wife is Catholic and our kids are being raised as Catholics. Not everyone can live with compromises like this, but many can. We make it work by agreeing to disagree in some areas and focusing on the many wonderful things we have in common."
When forced to support a policy you don't like, say as much. Say, "I'm voting for X against my conscience because my party needs so-and-so's support on Y, and they won't give it without our support for X."
Other Comments by Dr Benway
29. Comment #100824 by Ty_Webb on December 19, 2007 at 11:58 am
He's a politician. It hardly helps his cause to say I don't believe in God and I think if you do then you're an idiot. Who knows what he actually thinks. As to the kids being raised Catholic, I suspect that's the same thing. He wants to be seen as allowing the religious to have their way because that makes people more likely to vote for him.Plus, I would have thought that the kids would at some point ask why daddy doesn't go to church with them and then daddy can say because it's all utter hogwash. I guess that catholic upbringing or not, those kids are more likely to turn out atheist than catholic.
Other Comments by Ty_Webb
30. Comment #100825 by steveroot on December 19, 2007 at 11:58 am
25. Comment #100808 by epeeist on December 19, 2007 at 11:21 am
What a great story!
...and you grew up to play with sharp things?
Steve ;-)
Other Comments by steveroot
31. Comment #100827 by quill on December 19, 2007 at 12:07 pm
I'm sure someone's responded to this already, but:In fairness, he doesn't have sole choice in how is children are raised - or would you prefer to unravel women's liberation?He doesn't have sole choice, but she does?
In any case, no, I'd just prefer it made sense. I don't see how someone can believe there is no god and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud, yet send his children off to Sunday School to be indoctrinated.
Other Comments by quill
32. Comment #100835 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on December 19, 2007 at 12:17 pm
21. Comment #100801 by bamafreethinker on December 19, 2007 at 10:51 amEven after I had decided it was all nonsense, I was terrified to tell my wife, or worse still my daughter for fear that I would be the instrument that would condemn them to hell.
Happily, I discovered quite by accident that my wife had independently reached the same conclusion, but it still took a few years to get over that fear and it still recurs occasionally.
Other Comments by briancoughlanworldcitizen
33. Comment #100836 by whig on December 19, 2007 at 12:19 pm
First off, I was quite glad to hear him say this, very few party leaders would say it explicitly. I think I can understand his position, and forgive it him, even tho I would think it would make more sense, IMHO, for them not to be brought up as Roman Catholics. The reality is that in a liberal family in the secular society of England, given their two parents, they are probably as likely to end up believing in a god either way. There is also the stipulation, which hasn't been mentioned in the comments so far, that the Roman Catholic Church explicitly requires that in mixed marriages the non-Catholic agree that the children be raised as Roman Catholics. At the end of the day, once the children start asking questions, if they have not reached that age already, the fact of their father's disbelief will likely cause their own doubt.Other Comments by whig
34. Comment #100838 by Goldy on December 19, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Aaah, an athiest politician called Horsefly :-) Heheheh - I had to laugh, sorry. My father (a Yorkshireman from near Barnsley) always used to swear at them "bloody cleggs!" as they seemed to find him rather tasty.My mother was (guess she still is - it is like the mafia) a Catholic. My old man is an athiest. I got baptised C of E because of pressure from my grandmother (CoE) and my mother - and unholy alliance! Not sure if my mother tried to instill Catholicism in me - or even religion, for that matter.
While on a yarn mode (it's basically holiday in my office) my grandmother was shocked that my father married a Catholic..and a foreigner to boot. He got let off the hook a bit when my uncle did the same - but his wife was Chinese as well as Catholic! Not even a white person! I think she mellowed as age progressed - she certainly loved her grandchildren :-)
Other Comments by Goldy
35. Comment #100845 by konquererz on December 19, 2007 at 12:46 pm
I think its a good start. Get people used to having an atheist in the government, then worry about the semantics later. In the US, no one would dare say they didn't believe in god if they were running for office. Other Comments by konquererz
36. Comment #100847 by PrimeNumbers on December 19, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I don't see it as a good thing to be an Atheist and raise your children Catholic. I mean, if you don't have the courage of your convictions..... He's either not Atheistic enough to please Atheists, and he's certainly not Catholic enough to please them, so what does he end up being - somewhat middle of the road. I guess that's why he's leading the Liberals.... Other Comments by PrimeNumbers
37. Comment #100852 by Goldy on December 19, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Happy wife for a quiet life, that's my maxim. You can't help who you fall in love with and maybe if you made a commitment, you try and accommodate the other half's wishes. You should see how a friend of ours is coping with his wife's Buddhism. A more patient man I have never come across :-) Other Comments by Goldy
38. Comment #100854 by Luthien on December 19, 2007 at 1:01 pm
25. Comment #100808 by epeeist on December 19, 2007 at 11:21 am
And since I am in story telling mode, I may as well finish it off. One of the priests visited us to find out why my brother hadn't been going to church. Seeing just the two children and a dog he told my mother she should get rid of the dog and consider having more children. Both she and the dog took exception to this and chased the priest down the garden path. Closing the gate behind him the priest turned and told me my mother that she would burn in hell. To which she responded that "she wouldn't be able to get near the fires for you buggers stoking it".
You just made my week with that story!
I lived briefly in a house in West Belfast, and within a very short space of time a bloke wearing a full Franciscan monk's outfit knocked at my door. Needless to say I left the crazy person knocking away, but my (now ex) partner answered the door eventually and it turned out to be the local catholic priest (he wanted to "remind" us of the mass times).
Other Comments by Luthien
39. Comment #100856 by epeeist on December 19, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Comment #100825 by steveroot
...and you grew up to play with sharp things?
Well, not exactly sharp. Otherwise the turnover rate could get fairly high, especially coaches.
Other Comments by epeeist
40. Comment #100858 by NormanDoering on December 19, 2007 at 1:04 pm
somersetsimon wrote:I can't comprehend how an atheist would be committed to bringing up his children as Catholics. Can anyone explain this logic?
Yes. It's mostly due to a lack of alternatives.
The Catholics also have some good schools and giving his kids a religious education helps them understand their culture. Either they are smart enough to figure it out themselves and become atheists -- or they get taken in by religion. There is no way to save your kids by hiding them away from this Christian culture. It's better they get it early with no fight from you. Wait until they ask for your help.
Other Comments by NormanDoering
41. Comment #100860 by Luthien on December 19, 2007 at 1:16 pm
38. Comment #100847 by PrimeNumbers on December 19, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I don't see it as a good thing to be an Atheist and raise your children Catholic. I mean, if you don't have the courage of your convictions.....
Meh, catholic indoctrination doesn't work properly unless accompanied by violence. Most people my parent's age were beaten for inability to say a prayer correctly, or some other made up offense. Education minus violence = most people seeing through it. The only problem is the lack of proper sex ed, but that didn't do me any harm in spite of my parents unwillingness to talk about it. (I picked up most of my attitudes on sex from watching nature documentaries, i.e. awww, look at the little bonobos.)
Even so, I won't be sending a child of mine to a catholic school, but then I'm not in a position where a. the only good school in the area is Catholic, or b. I have a partner that would demand it.
Other Comments by Luthien
42. Comment #100861 by scottishgeologist on December 19, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Epeeist, that story is wonderful! Please go into story-telling mode more often. Havent laughed so much in ages! Actually, the way you told that reminded me of the late great Dave Allen, whose approach to catholicism was sublime.
Regarding the catholic thing generally, I know a lot of catholics - most of them are seriously cool about religion - I would call them "cultural catholics" as much as anything else. Most I know enjoy a good drink, a bit of gambling, plenty of sex, the odd "substance" , loads of dancing and "worldly pleasures" - hey these folks are cool to be with! OK, they go to mass, but how much of that is cultural and habitual?
I reember being on a cahrter flight from Shannon to Aberdeen in the early 80s when I worked offshore (did a stint offshore Ireland) The stewardess sitting opposite me was the most gorgeous woman I had ever seen - long red hair, piercing green eyes and a voice you would kill for! And she crossed herself as the plane took off.
Man, I would have "converted", that minute, just to spend an evening with her.
By the way, the Irish crew of that rig I worked on, had an hour long strike and ran a black flag up the derrick the day that Bobby Sands died....
Other Comments by scottishgeologist
43. Comment #100862 by SmartLX on December 19, 2007 at 1:19 pm
I'm cautiously optimistic for the kids, because I was in roughly the same situation: a Catholic mother, an atheist father and a Catholic upbringing (albeit in Australia).I think all it took to get my wheels turning was the knowledge that someone I love and respect did not buy into Christianity at all. Clegg's children won't be ignorant of that fact for long now that it's on the public record.
Other Comments by SmartLX
44. Comment #100865 by justdust on December 19, 2007 at 1:23 pm
New Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has answered "no" when asked on BBC radio if he believed in God.Good!
Mr Clegg was joined on his first day in the job by musician Brian Eno, whom he has brought in as an adviser on how to "reach out beyond Westminster to people who don't get a say in politics".Weird!
Other Comments by justdust
45. Comment #100876 by Ben Jennings on December 19, 2007 at 1:57 pm
We need a handy word for "I'm an atheist but" types... "naytheist"? Other Comments by Ben Jennings
46. Comment #100877 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 1:57 pm
My father was a Catholic, my mother a nominal protestant. They married in a Catholic church and my mother had to commit to bringing children up as Catholics. This may be the case with Nick Clegg.
Incidentally, my mother was not allowed to use the centre aisle in the church since she wasn't Catholic.
Yes same here. I thought maybe they had given up on that rubbish but it appears not.
To all those suggesting he is just looking for a good school for his kids that is rubbish. You can send your kids to a catholic school without `raising them catholic'. Mind you having been raised a catholic and attended some of the schools I would die before letting my children near either. This is the catholic church we are talking about not some wishy washy branch of C of E. He is just wimping out on his responsibility to look after his children. Do you really want that little spine in a future political leader ?
Someone needs to ask him what kind of contraception he is using.
Michael
Other Comments by mmurray
47. Comment #100879 by monkey2 on December 19, 2007 at 2:00 pm
The Archbishop of Canterbury said"This is a country with a nominally Christian majority and that's good. Whoever becomes prime minister has to understand that and work with it rather than against the grain of it."
A nominally Christian Majority. Only 40 months to go before the 2011 Census.
I hope that we can do enough before then to make it a nominally Atheist majority!
The Prime Minister will then have to understand that and work with it rather than against the grain of it.
When you get to question 14 - 'What is your Religion?' Stand up and be counted as a 'None'.
Other Comments by monkey2
48. Comment #100893 by mjwemdee on December 19, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Scottishgeologist (Comment #100861) has reminded me of one of Dave Allen's lovely jokes:A Catholic priest was finding his pastoral duties pretty arduous and depressing, so without telling his Bishop he decided to consult a psychiatrist. The shrink listened carefully to all his woes, and said 'Father, what I suggest is this: take off your dog-collar, go into London, find a bar, and just enjoy yourself for the evening'.
The priest duly went incognito into Soho, found a lap-dancing club and sat down. A topless waitress approached him and said 'What'll you be having, Father?' The startled priest said: 'I took my dog-collar off - how the hell did you know I was a priest?' The waitress replied: 'I'm Sister Mary Benedict - and I go to the same psychiatrist.'
Other Comments by mjwemdee
49. Comment #100904 by Scott McMeekin on December 19, 2007 at 3:01 pm
I'm sorry, I'm still confused.How can you not believe in God, yet consent to subject your children to the church's indoctrination? How can you not believe in catholic dogma, yet allow priests to preach things like trans-substantiation as fact?
Seems to me that Mr Clegg is trying to be all things to all men, as with every two-bit snivelling politician we appear to be stuck with these days. Just ONCE I'd like to meet one with the guts to say:
"I don't believe in God, and I don't agree with children being indoctrinated. However, I will neither persecute religious people, nor marginalise them, in recognition of the beliefs of a section of the electorate I'm supposed to serve. Religion has an important part to play in the lives of some of the people in this country, and I believe that should be their choice once they have reached adulthood and can make an informed and consentual decision."
But of course, that kind of thing doesn't pander to the religious, whom have grown used to being molly-coddled.
Maybe the mere facade of secularism is enough for some of you. Sadly, I fear I'm past that point.
Scott.
Other Comments by Scott McMeekin
50. Comment #100907 by Donald on December 19, 2007 at 3:06 pm
I can't comprehend how an atheist would be committed to bringing up his children as Catholics.The Roman Catholic church has a long-standing policy of requiring its deluded to get the prospective spouse to agree, prior to any commitment to a wedding, to bring up the children as Catholic. This is a non-negotiable condition for Catholics marrying non-Catholics. In theory at least, the deluded cannot remain Catholics if they cannot get the prospective spouse to agree to this condition. I.e. the penalty for non-compliance is excommunication.
This is a despicable feature of Catholic indoctrination, but is (ironically) transparently darwinian in terms of the propagation of the RC memes.
Nick would have had to agree to this to obtain the woman he chose. It speaks to his honesty that he is keeping his word. (I suspect, and hope, that he is nevertheless talking to his children about his own views, and instilling some ideas of critical thinking and scientific knowledge.)
Other Comments by Donald
Comment Entry: Please Login
Register a new account
Upcoming Events:
Mailing List
Enter your email:
DVDs
'The Enemies of Reason: The Uncut Interviews' DVD
'Voices of Reason' DVD
'Richard Dawkins: Appearances & Events 2007-2008' DVD
'Enemies of Reason' DVD
'Root of All Evil?' DVD
'Root of All Evil? The Uncut Interviews' DVD
'Growing Up in the Universe' DVD
'Voices of Science' DVD
'The Four Horsemen' DVD
'Break the Science Barrier' DVD
1. Comment #100763 by Ian on December 19, 2007 at 9:52 am
As a long-time Liberal Democrat and atheist, I'd like to say that this is music to my ears. He even mentions Mill in his campain liturature.This is the beginning of something good here in the UK!
Other Comments by Ian