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Al Qaeda: We're open to questions
by CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/12/19/alqaeda.interview.ap/
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Al Qaeda has invited journalists to send questions to its No. 2 figure, Ayman al-Zawahiri, in the first such offer by the increasingly media-savvy terror network to "interview" one of its leaders since the 9-11 attacks.
The invitation is a new twist in al Qaeda's campaign to reach a broader audience, and represents an attempt by al-Zawahiri to present himself as a sophisticated leader rather than a mass murderer.
"I think their media capability is sophisticated as ever," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert and professor at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. "It shows how this group with 7th century ideology is exploiting 21st century media capabilities."
The advertisement, issued by the group's media arm Al-Sahab on an Islamic militant Web site, invites "individuals, agencies and all media" to submit written questions for al-Zawahiri by sending them to the Web forums where Al-Sahab traditionally posts its messages.
Al-Sahab asked the forums to send it the questions "with no changes or substitutions, no matter whether they agree or disagree (with the question)."
It said it would take questions until January 16, after which al-Zawahiri would answer them "as much as he is able and at the soonest possible occasion." It did not say whether his answers would come in writing, video or audiotape.
The authenticity of the invitation, first posted Sunday, could not be independently confirmed. But it was posted with the logo of Al-Sahab and the style of graphics and calligraphy it traditionally uses, along with a photo of al-Zawahiri. The advertisement appeared on several Web sites that Al-Sahab officially uses for issuing messages.
Osama bin Laden and al-Zawahiri have given a few interviews to Western and Arabic press since they first rose to prominence in the 1990s. But neither has been interviewed since the September 11 attacks and the subsequent U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, which toppled al Qaeda's patrons the Taliban and sent al Qaeda's leaders into hiding.
They are believed to be in the lawless regions along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
Since then, al-Zawahiri has emerged as al Qaeda's most prominent spokesman. He has appeared in at least 16 videos and audiotapes this year, compared to four for bin Laden.
As a whole, the terror network's messaging has dramatically increased this year, with Al-Sahab issuing more than 90 videos in 2007, more than the total number for all three previous years, according to IntelCenter. The U.S. counterterrorism center monitors militant message traffic.
In the most recent, issued Tuesday, Abu Laith al-Libi, a Libyan al Qaeda commander in Afghanistan who also releases frequent messages, lectured on the duty of Muslims to join the battle against the "devil."
The videos have grown more sophisticated in targeting their international audience. Videos are always subtitled in English, and messages this year from bin Laden and al-Zawahiri focusing on Pakistan and Afghanistan have been dubbed in the local languages, Urdu and Pashtu.
Videos and audiotapes have also had a faster turnaround, referring sometimes to events that occurred only days earlier. The al Qaeda leaders' messages are often interwoven with footage of past attacks, militants training and TV news clips of world events and leaders including President Bush -- evidence that their producers have easy access to media.
"The translation of their statements and their release on the Internet shows that al Qaeda puts a lot of attention on making their messages as widely heard as possible," said Rita Katz, who runs the Washington-based terrorist monitoring SITE Institute.
"You have to keep in mind that al Qaeda is an operational organization, but at the same time they pay a lot of attention to the media warfare. You can't win one without the other," Katz said.
Ben Venzke, the head of IntelCenter, cited an open solicitation for questions from an arm of al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia a few years ago as a precedent for Sunday's message. He said the group answered a variety of questions "ranging from big picture things to small practical things."
"I would expect to see a similar thing with al-Zawahiri," Venzke said.
In his messages, al-Zawahiri has taken on the role of the ideological policeman of the jihadi movement, warning against lapses in dedication to "holy war" against the U.S. "crusaders." He often lashes out at Muslim clerics who don't advocate jihad and Arab regimes allied to the West, while telling the Muslim world that the U.S. is failing in its policies.
His overarching theme has been to present al Qaeda as the leader of militant movements and to keep them unified. Although the extent of al Qaeda's control over allied groups is never clear, many analysts believe al-Zawahiri likely holds the network's operational reins, leading the rebuilding of its command and heading meetings of its top leadership.
Hoffman said al-Zawahiri is also trying to boost his own image to look more like a true leader as opposed to a "homicidal thug." Opening himself up to questioning -- in a similar fashion done in U.S. political campaigns -- makes him look more sophisticated, he said.
"Al Qaeda wants to look more cutting edge and give the perception of greater legitimacy," Hoffman said.
Al-Zawahiri's latest videotape, on Monday, was in the form of an interview with Al-Sahab, in which an unseen interviewer could be heard asking questions to the Egyptian-born militant. He answered while sitting in front of shelves of stacked Islamic law and theology books.
Al-Zawahiri warned of "traitors" among insurgents in Iraq -- an attempt to undermine groups of Iraqi Sunni tribesmen that the U.S. military has backed to help fight al-Qaida in Iraq.
Jeremy Binnie, a terrorism analyst with the Jane's military affairs consultancy in London, said the invitation to journalists is an extension of that message. Al Qaeda is scrambling to rein in any doubt that it is in control in Iraq, he said.
"It suggests that they are pretty desperate to get their views out there," he said.
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Al Qaeda has invited journalists to send questions to its No. 2 figure, Ayman al-Zawahiri, in the first such offer by the increasingly media-savvy terror network to "interview" one of its leaders since the 9-11 attacks.The invitation is a new twist in al Qaeda's campaign to reach a broader audience, and represents an attempt by al-Zawahiri to present himself as a sophisticated leader rather than a mass murderer.
"I think their media capability is sophisticated as ever," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert and professor at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. "It shows how this group with 7th century ideology is exploiting 21st century media capabilities."
The advertisement, issued by the group's media arm Al-Sahab on an Islamic militant Web site, invites "individuals, agencies and all media" to submit written questions for al-Zawahiri by sending them to the Web forums where Al-Sahab traditionally posts its messages.
Al-Sahab asked the forums to send it the questions "with no changes or substitutions, no matter whether they agree or disagree (with the question)."
It said it would take questions until January 16, after which al-Zawahiri would answer them "as much as he is able and at the soonest possible occasion." It did not say whether his answers would come in writing, video or audiotape.
The authenticity of the invitation, first posted Sunday, could not be independently confirmed. But it was posted with the logo of Al-Sahab and the style of graphics and calligraphy it traditionally uses, along with a photo of al-Zawahiri. The advertisement appeared on several Web sites that Al-Sahab officially uses for issuing messages.
Osama bin Laden and al-Zawahiri have given a few interviews to Western and Arabic press since they first rose to prominence in the 1990s. But neither has been interviewed since the September 11 attacks and the subsequent U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, which toppled al Qaeda's patrons the Taliban and sent al Qaeda's leaders into hiding.
They are believed to be in the lawless regions along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
Since then, al-Zawahiri has emerged as al Qaeda's most prominent spokesman. He has appeared in at least 16 videos and audiotapes this year, compared to four for bin Laden.
As a whole, the terror network's messaging has dramatically increased this year, with Al-Sahab issuing more than 90 videos in 2007, more than the total number for all three previous years, according to IntelCenter. The U.S. counterterrorism center monitors militant message traffic.
In the most recent, issued Tuesday, Abu Laith al-Libi, a Libyan al Qaeda commander in Afghanistan who also releases frequent messages, lectured on the duty of Muslims to join the battle against the "devil."
The videos have grown more sophisticated in targeting their international audience. Videos are always subtitled in English, and messages this year from bin Laden and al-Zawahiri focusing on Pakistan and Afghanistan have been dubbed in the local languages, Urdu and Pashtu.
Videos and audiotapes have also had a faster turnaround, referring sometimes to events that occurred only days earlier. The al Qaeda leaders' messages are often interwoven with footage of past attacks, militants training and TV news clips of world events and leaders including President Bush -- evidence that their producers have easy access to media.
"The translation of their statements and their release on the Internet shows that al Qaeda puts a lot of attention on making their messages as widely heard as possible," said Rita Katz, who runs the Washington-based terrorist monitoring SITE Institute.
"You have to keep in mind that al Qaeda is an operational organization, but at the same time they pay a lot of attention to the media warfare. You can't win one without the other," Katz said.
Ben Venzke, the head of IntelCenter, cited an open solicitation for questions from an arm of al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia a few years ago as a precedent for Sunday's message. He said the group answered a variety of questions "ranging from big picture things to small practical things."
"I would expect to see a similar thing with al-Zawahiri," Venzke said.
In his messages, al-Zawahiri has taken on the role of the ideological policeman of the jihadi movement, warning against lapses in dedication to "holy war" against the U.S. "crusaders." He often lashes out at Muslim clerics who don't advocate jihad and Arab regimes allied to the West, while telling the Muslim world that the U.S. is failing in its policies.
His overarching theme has been to present al Qaeda as the leader of militant movements and to keep them unified. Although the extent of al Qaeda's control over allied groups is never clear, many analysts believe al-Zawahiri likely holds the network's operational reins, leading the rebuilding of its command and heading meetings of its top leadership.
Hoffman said al-Zawahiri is also trying to boost his own image to look more like a true leader as opposed to a "homicidal thug." Opening himself up to questioning -- in a similar fashion done in U.S. political campaigns -- makes him look more sophisticated, he said.
"Al Qaeda wants to look more cutting edge and give the perception of greater legitimacy," Hoffman said.
Al-Zawahiri's latest videotape, on Monday, was in the form of an interview with Al-Sahab, in which an unseen interviewer could be heard asking questions to the Egyptian-born militant. He answered while sitting in front of shelves of stacked Islamic law and theology books.
Al-Zawahiri warned of "traitors" among insurgents in Iraq -- an attempt to undermine groups of Iraqi Sunni tribesmen that the U.S. military has backed to help fight al-Qaida in Iraq.
Jeremy Binnie, a terrorism analyst with the Jane's military affairs consultancy in London, said the invitation to journalists is an extension of that message. Al Qaeda is scrambling to rein in any doubt that it is in control in Iraq, he said.
"It suggests that they are pretty desperate to get their views out there," he said.
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2007 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 107 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers3. Comment #101271 by Rtambree on December 20, 2007 at 7:02 am
I have a question: What do you hate more? The Great Satan, America? Women? Jews? Israel? Science? Apostates? Alcohol? Life? Gays? Christians? Buddhists? Hindus? Atheists? Anyone having a good time? Any idea later than 1000AD? Or yourselves?Other Comments by Rtambree
4. Comment #101277 by NormanDoering on December 20, 2007 at 7:08 am
Ohnhai wrote:That's who Dinesh should debate next !I'd like to see a debate between Hitchens and Ayman al-Zawahiri about how religion inspires moral behavior.
Other Comments by NormanDoering
5. Comment #101281 by USA_Limey on December 20, 2007 at 7:14 am
Comment #101270 by Diacanu:And would you orally satisfy the prince of darkness as hard as you flat out suck here on Earth?
Greedily, and with reckless shameless abandon?
Or, would you suck it tenderly, knowing you had eons to build up to the rough stuff?
I'm at work and that gave me a hard on you bastard.
;-)
[EDIT - OK post missing now - thought better of it did ya!]
Other Comments by USA_Limey
6. Comment #101282 by cincyatheist on December 20, 2007 at 7:14 am
If CNN decides to do this, it could prove very eye-opening for a lot of people. If they ask them why they carried out the attacks on 9/11 and they tell the world that it was motivated by Islam, that will settle it once and for all. A lot of people think that it's socio-political or economical factors.Can't wait to see what happens.
Other Comments by cincyatheist
7. Comment #101283 by Diacanu on December 20, 2007 at 7:15 am
Ah, sorry, I had to delete my original post.It was in bad taste.
I can't help myself. I get to even theoretically ask Al-Qaeda questions, I get....colorful..with my metaphors...
Other Comments by Diacanu
8. Comment #101284 by irate_atheist on December 20, 2007 at 7:15 am
3. Comment #101271 by Rtambree -Missing option - Jim Davidson.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
9. Comment #101287 by Diacanu on December 20, 2007 at 7:24 am
USA_Limey-[EDIT - OK post missing now - thought better of it did ya!]
Well, y'know, I dunno how far I can go on these forums, didn't wanna get banned...
Other Comments by Diacanu
10. Comment #101297 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 7:46 am
Most suicide attacks are not religiously motivated (See research by Robert Pape @ U of Chicago).The religious idiom is almost incidental. The religious cause is brought out via abductive reasoning. Suicide is prohibited by almost every religion.
The religious stuff just makes them additionally obnoxious.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
11. Comment #101298 by faouloki on December 20, 2007 at 7:46 am
Diacanu-Fortunately USA_Limey quoted it so it's still there for us all to enjoy!
Other Comments by faouloki
12. Comment #101308 by tieInterceptor on December 20, 2007 at 8:01 am
dicanau is good that USA_limey quoted you , because it was funny.al-rawandi... when a certified doctor burns himself to death when trying to blow up his car, and has to be manhandled to the floor by the police to extinguish his flaming body, while shouting "Alahu akbar" without stopping to breath in...
then, I think you can safely say that he was working hard on his 72 virgins in paradise.
Other Comments by tieInterceptor
13. Comment #101309 by USA_Limey on December 20, 2007 at 8:03 am
Fortunately USA_Limey quoted it so it's still there for us all to enjoy!
... Once you commit something to the internet it's there FOREVER. MUH HA HA!
But I'll take the wrap for keeping it on the thread - Diacanu you are absolved of guilt my son.
Other Comments by USA_Limey
14. Comment #101312 by Dax on December 20, 2007 at 8:07 am
al-rawandi: without promise of reward in the afterlife, you get people just offing themselves, not taking others along. Suicide attacks need some form of divine or ideological justification beyond that what any reasonable person could come up with. Researchers who say otherwise due to years of political correct thinking, are just deluding themselves.Other Comments by Dax
15. Comment #101316 by TonyA on December 20, 2007 at 8:15 am
Researchers who say otherwise due to years of political correct thinking, are just deluding themselves.Prof. Pape says this about the issue:
"Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist
attacks have in common is a specific secular
and strategic goal: to compel modern
democracies to withdraw military forces from
territory that the terrorists consider to be
their homeland."
I guess he's talking about their sacred homeland promised to them by their religion.
Other Comments by TonyA
16. Comment #101319 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 8:17 am
Dax:Suicide bombing... Tamil Tigers. Marxist Atheists. First use of suicide vests. Many of the bombers had never attended a religious ceremony in their lives.
Palestinians have sent both Christian and Atheist suicide bombers. (One a former ambulance medic, who was unbearably disgusted with Israeli aggression)
Nazis sent suicide subs, piloted by the a-religious.
Communist Russia (state atheism) sent suicide waves at the Germans.
Religion is just one idiom. Read the research. Suicide bombing is not where we atheists will make headway.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
17. Comment #101321 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 8:21 am
I think you fail to see, that religion is a product of human evolution. They were attached to their land (a reasonable feeling for any human). If later they concocted a revelation to support this... That would be coincidental correlation.The Ancient Arabians had similar views, supported by similar mythopoeia. Nothing new, certainly endemic to the human condition, as religion also seems to be endemic.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
18. Comment #101325 by TonyA on December 20, 2007 at 8:29 am
I see your point, but if they didn't have religion to empower and embolden them, they might find better solutions to the problems.I don't think people are claiming that we need to get rid of religion because it teaches people to blow up other people. I think the problem is religion allows otherwise good people to blow up other people.
Without religion, we have the possibility of compromise. With religion, nobody can dare to back off, for fear of insulting their god.
Their religion gives them the arrogance, racism, bigotry and the idiocy that makes being bad so good (in their eyes).
Other Comments by TonyA
19. Comment #101326 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 8:34 am
That sounds a lot more reasonable to me.The issue that surrounds the suicide bombing, is that if it is attributed (by the non-religious) to religion, and it isn't a religious pehnomenon, then they can say "intolerant atheists want to crush our beliefs and way of life." They wouldn't be wrong in that assertion if we made illogical attributions to religion.
The Arabs are a tribal society, with tribal ethos. Compromise is something achieved through parity of force. Get rid of religion, and you may only get rid of some of the problems.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
20. Comment #101329 by Steve Zara on December 20, 2007 at 8:37 am
Get rid of religion, and you may only get rid of some of the problems.
Well, that sounds a useful first step to me.
Other Comments by Steve Zara
21. Comment #101334 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 8:44 am
Ok how do you plan to get rid of it? I understand a lot of atheists (occassionally myself included) have a lot emotion wound around the anti-religion thing, but what's the plan? Kill all the al-Qaeda types? That hasn't really gone so well. Topple governments that are religious? Other Comments by al-rawandi
22. Comment #101355 by Rtambree on December 20, 2007 at 9:15 am
21. Comment #101334 by al-rawandi>Ok how do you plan to get rid of it?
By looking at how other secular countries voluntarily cast off their religious shackles. Sweden didn't have a top-down atheist revolution. The evidence is that most people will automatically shed their religion if given an adequate standard of living, economic security, and scientifically literate education.
Other Comments by Rtambree
23. Comment #101356 by mdowe on December 20, 2007 at 9:15 am
Re: 21. Comment #101334 by al-rawandi
... a lot of atheists (occassionally myself included) have a lot emotion wound around the anti-religion thing ...
Left to my own devices I never give religious considerations a second thought ... until it is forced on me from the outside.
Ok how do you plan to get rid of it?
Sadly there is such thing as a problem with no particularly good solution, and I'm afraid these dangerous religiously-motivated groups form the basis of one of them. I think the only realistic approach is to try and contain the problem as much as possible in order to minimise the suffering and carnage. You isolate the states that support the fundamentalism/terrorism, support those that try to fight it and educate their populations, try to foil the schemes of the terrorists, and capture or kill them and their leaders whenever you get the chance. You are bound to have good days and bad days. If this sounds a lot like what most countries are doing, well, the options are kind of limited. What else are you going to do? -- start vapourising the countries from which the fundamentalists/terrorists are springing along with their populations? Invade every such country and try to impose change from outside? Unthinkable and fantasy respectively.
On another note, It is my opinion that we should be (or more to the point, should have been ...) a lot more careful about the ideals of the people we allow to settle in our countries. As I see it, particularly dangerous religions like Wahabist Islam, should be treated as criminal.
Other Comments by mdowe
24. Comment #101359 by Diacanu on December 20, 2007 at 9:18 am
al-rawandi-Ok how do you plan to get rid of it?
Spermination.
Nail their daughters, and breed it out.
Other Comments by Diacanu
25. Comment #101363 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 9:21 am
DiacanuSpermination. I am working 24/7 to realize that solution. Unfortunately they don't drink. That was an unforeseen snag in my plan.
I must rely on whit and charm.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
26. Comment #101367 by irate_atheist on December 20, 2007 at 9:25 am
25. Comment #101363 by al-rawandi -Spermination. I am working 24/7 to realize that solution. Unfortunately they don't drink.I don't think Diacanu's suggesting they drink it. Oh, I see what you mean.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
27. Comment #101369 by konquererz on December 20, 2007 at 9:26 am
Diacanu, let me know if you need help with that. Other Comments by konquererz
28. Comment #101370 by NormanDoering on December 20, 2007 at 9:26 am
al-rawandi wrote:Suicide bombing... Tamil Tigers. Marxist Atheists.
You're either a liar yourself or you have been lied to.
The Tamil Tigers are indeed a terrorist group, and not a religious one, and they are indeed "Marxist." However, their founder and supreme leader, Vellupillai Prabhakaran, is a Methodist Christian. Their official spokesman, ANTON Balasingham, is also Christian. Most of the top guys in the Tigers are Christian and Hindu, not atheist.
You've replaced the word "secular" with "atheist." These are not the same things. Secularism is what our founding fathers wrote into the U.S. constitution, the wall of separation of church and state. Secular is the opposite of sectarian. When the Tamil Tigers say they are secular, they don't mean they're atheists, they mean that their government shouldn't endorse one religion over another. They mean only that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education. Religion is your own private business, it's not the business of the state. The reason Hindus would go for that is because they know they are a minority.
Other Comments by NormanDoering
29. Comment #101374 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 9:29 am
Rtambree"The evidence is that most people will automatically shed their religion if given an adequate standard of living, economic security, and scientifically literate education."
Well I spent some time in the Arabian Peninsula. Believe me they live well, they are educated in western universities. Many have PhD's. Some in the sciences. And yet they are still religious.
Bin Laden himself is the supreme example. Wealthy, educated, secure, moderately religious. Now a fanatic talking about zionists and crusaders.
Every protest in the Arab world is led by a sign reading "Harb al-Salabiyya al-Mu'assara" (The contemporary crusades). They feel that it is Christian fanatacism causing the trouble.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
30. Comment #101378 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 9:35 am
NormanDoering:Comes out swinging....
The people carrying out the suicide bombings are non-religious (to a greater degree than the general population of the regioin). Some may be Hindu (at a nominal level). But I get the feeling from the research that it is a non-religious insurrection.
So will you then be saying that Secularism is a cause of suicide bombing (I will concede that atheism isn't the overwhelming identity, but some of the bombers were atheists)? I think it proves my point that there isn't a uniting monolithic religious identity motivating the movement.
Since the 'top guys' are Christian... that must be the cause?
Other Comments by al-rawandi
31. Comment #101381 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 9:36 am
irate_atheistDon't drink, different from 'don't swallow'.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
32. Comment #101384 by NormanDoering on December 20, 2007 at 9:38 am
al-rawandi wrote:I spent some time in the Arabian Peninsula. Believe me they live well, they are educated in western universities. Many have PhD's. Some in the sciences. And yet they are still religious.
And they have the death penalty for apostasy.
Other Comments by NormanDoering
33. Comment #101386 by NormanDoering on December 20, 2007 at 9:40 am
al-rawandi wrote:The people carrying out the suicide bombings are non-religious (to a greater degree than the general population of the regioin).
Say's who? Sounds like you're making up your facts again to fit your ideology and ignoring the fact you've been caught in a lie.
Other Comments by NormanDoering
34. Comment #101389 by octopus on December 20, 2007 at 9:46 am
Al Qaeda: We're open to questions
How generous!
Other Comments by octopus
35. Comment #101394 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 9:53 am
Norman:There were a series of interviews I am recalling from memory. (These were contained in the Robert Pape research). The interview was with a woman who says she had never been inside a Hindu temple in her life, she was a Tiger fighter. I don't know if she went on to suicide operations. Feel free to read the stuff.
Your response to my PhDs and science post misses the mark. Someone posted that these things will rid people of religion. It hasn't, that was point.
If you insist on being a dick, perhaps you could bestir yourself to do some reading. I am not defending Saudi Arabia, or religion. I am saying that science and education doesn't rid always rid us of religion.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
36. Comment #101405 by Jamougha on December 20, 2007 at 10:13 am
What I'd really like to know is, what proportion of Muslims they believe to be apostates. I doubt you'd get a straight answer to that one tho.Other Comments by Jamougha
37. Comment #101406 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 10:15 am
Jamougha:The Wahhabi theology would dictate that all Shi'a, Sufis, and several other variants are "disbelievers", worthy of death. You can't get a public statement to that effect.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
38. Comment #101408 by Vinelectric on December 20, 2007 at 10:17 am
Numerous videos sent by Al-Qaeda to the Jazeera headquarters and a website that is continuously updated yet no one can track their whereabouts?An 18 year old hacker is tracked down to his home in New Zealand. Yet this sahab site is non traceable...!
I'm not buying into the silly conspiracy theories but how do you explain that?
Other Comments by Vinelectric
39. Comment #101413 by 35bluejacket on December 20, 2007 at 10:29 am
I'm getting really tired of the sexual innuendoes. We should rethink our value judgements that we have inherited from religions. The brainwashing has been quite complete and most of us don't realise or ask where the thoughts came from. How have we come to believe that the worse thing we can say to another is imply a sexual act? Sexual actions between consenting adults is supposed to be one of the kindest, nicest things on the face of the earth. Only religion could poison something so pure and natural. :)Other Comments by 35bluejacket
40. Comment #101414 by sidfaiwu on December 20, 2007 at 10:33 am
Bravo, 35bluejacket. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to be 'kind' and 'nice' to my wife.Joking aside, you do have a point. It's amazing the number of assumptions we make without even realizing it. I'm just glad we are able to honestly address those normal human shortcomings instead of appealing to 'faith' that we are correct in or biases.
Other Comments by sidfaiwu
41. Comment #101415 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 10:37 am
Tigers, last comment.Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam.
Founded by Vilupillai Pirabhakaran a descendant of Hindus, although himself a lapsed Methodist. He touts revloutionary socialism as his driving ideology.
The Tigers themselves boast of "adopting Lenin's teaching that armed struggle 'must be enobled by the enlightening and organizing influence of socialism'"
They were allied with groups such as the Eelam National Liberation Front which in turn were connected with George Habash's PFLP in Palestine (Marxist/Leninist, claims suicide attacks) and the Tunisian Communist Party.
This I believe proves my point that suicide terrorism finds causes that are non-religious. That doesn't mean I support religion.
P.S. al-Qaeda sucks.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
42. Comment #101417 by Vinelectric on December 20, 2007 at 10:38 am
al-rawandiYou argue that suicide missions are not essentially religious.
However present day suicide bombers are predominantly muslim. Generally speaking the moderate/secular muslim countries e.g Tunisia, Syria or even Turkey don't seem to produce as many suicide bombers as those countries where the religious sentiment is stronger (e.g Saudi).
I know where you're coming from, suicide is prohibited in Islam, but maybe there is a direct link between religion and suicide missions that you/me are not fully aware off.
Other Comments by Vinelectric
43. Comment #101419 by Bonzai on December 20, 2007 at 10:46 am
Vinelectric,It seems that you have changed your view quite a bit recently, or is it just my impression? :)
Actually I find al-rawandi makes a lot of sense.
Other Comments by Bonzai
44. Comment #101421 by zarcus on December 20, 2007 at 10:48 am
NormanDoering Wrote:The Tamil Tigers are indeed a terrorist group, and not a religious one, and they are indeed "Marxist." However, their founder and supreme leader, Vellupillai Prabhakaran, is a Methodist Christian. Their official spokesman, ANTON Balasingham, is also Christian.
Who are you calling a liar? Prabhakaran is a lapsed Baptist and Balsingham is dead as of 2006. Also, Balasingham was raised Christian but became atheist in adulthood.
Other Comments by zarcus
45. Comment #101422 by black wolf on December 20, 2007 at 10:49 am
It is actually irrelevant if Islam prohibits suicide. When someone redefines his or others' suicide as defense of a supreme ideal that is not to be questioned, moderate theology is impotent. That's the crux with moderate religion: it is powerless to prevent violence and disaster while selling hope to those who survive by chance. Other Comments by black wolf
46. Comment #101424 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 10:50 am
There is an obvious link. Religious people engage in suicide terror. There is a simple link. Suicide terrorism (the argument) requires a tautological link to religion, or the contradictions that exist will damage the argument beyond repair. The critique of religion should focus on its falsity. "Your text is bogus, do you believe god sent it to you still?"
Other Comments by al-rawandi
47. Comment #101427 by Bonzai on December 20, 2007 at 10:57 am
black wolfIt is actually irrelevant if Islam prohibits suicide. When someone redefines his or others' suicide as defense of a supreme ideal that is not to be questioned, moderate theology is impotent. That's the crux with moderate religion: it is powerless to prevent violence and disaster while selling hope to those who survive by chance.
The injunction against suicide is not from "moderate Islam". It is in the Quran and is a mainstream belief of adulterer stoning, limb chopping Islam. Vinelectric can correct me if I am wrong, the punishment for suicide in the afterlife is the eternal re-enactment of the suicide act, there is no 72 virgins or rivers of wine.
I have heard very conservative Muslim scholars arguing that suicide bombing doesn't qualify as martyrdom because the martyr must die by the enemies' hands while the suicide bombers die by their own hands.
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48. Comment #101429 by al-rawandi on December 20, 2007 at 11:03 am
Suice is prohibited in the Hadith:"Whomsoever kills himself by throttling, shall be throttled in the hellfire, whomsoever kills himself by stabbing shall be stabbed for eternity in hell"
Also
"Whomsoever kills himself with iron shall be tortured with it in the hellfire."
Finally:
I will paraphrase because I don't know how to accurately translate.
"A soldier was wounded on the battle field, he killed himself to end his pain. He was sent to be burned in the fire."
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49. Comment #101431 by rthille on December 20, 2007 at 11:04 am
Here's my question:"If your god 'Allah' does exist, why is he such a fucking asshole?"
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50. Comment #101434 by rthille on December 20, 2007 at 11:06 am
So, if you O.D. on morphine to kill yourself, that wouldn't be a bad way to spend eternity. Stupid God, can't even close the loopholes...Other Comments by rthille
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1. Comment #101259 by Ohnhai on December 20, 2007 at 6:46 am
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