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I'm not sure that AHA's use of the term "Romanticism" is quite the right one here. Perhaps it should be something like "Sentimentalism". 3. Comment #108577 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 9:19 am
4. Comment #108584 by Nefrubyr on January 7, 2008 at 9:34 am
5. Comment #108585 by padster1976 on January 7, 2008 at 9:34 am
6. Comment #108587 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 9:40 am
7. Comment #108596 by Star Spangled Eagle on January 7, 2008 at 10:18 am
8. Comment #108602 by eXcommunicate on January 7, 2008 at 10:24 am
9. Comment #108604 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 10:28 am
10. Comment #108606 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 10:31 am
I'm with Hitch in that eventually, some of the fanatics will look around at their overwhelming military defeat and wonder if Allah is really on their side.
11. Comment #108614 by eXcommunicate on January 7, 2008 at 10:51 am
12. Comment #108620 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 11:02 am
...the way to rescue Western civilization from a path of suicide is to challenge its tradition of reason...
13. Comment #108623 by Fanusi Khiyal on January 7, 2008 at 11:06 am
Spot on analysis by Ayaan Hirsi Ali of one of the most intelligent thinkers alive oday.
People misidentify early Islam as a unification between church and state. The opposite was the case. The development of Islamic legal thought was independent of the state apparatus. The Caliphate, although endowed with religious titles was not the religious authority, but the political one. Courts were administered by religious authorities, since religion was superior to politics. Recent intellectual advances (if such a word applies) in Islamic thought have sought to unify state and religion.
I think she is amiss in the accusation of fundamental intolerance. Moorish Spain saw a fairly tolerant Muslim rulership established by the deposed Ummayad dynasty
As a practical matter jihad is known in a militant form because of the assault by western powers that Muslim world has found itself under. The deeper intellectual tradition is one of a multifaceted religious principle.
14. Comment #108625 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 11:11 am
15. Comment #108626 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 11:11 am
16. Comment #108627 by Fanusi Khiyal on January 7, 2008 at 11:13 am
I should retract that comment about 'how dumb and uninformed...' Anyone who pays attetion to Vinelectric will get a somewhat skewed impression on that score.17. Comment #108632 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 11:18 am
18. Comment #108633 by stereoroid on January 7, 2008 at 11:19 am
Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
19. Comment #108634 by Gymnopedie on January 7, 2008 at 11:23 am
I must admit that it was writers like Sam Harris, Hitchens, and AHA that made me stop using meaningless blanket terms like Neo-Con, and Neo-Liberal. I feel we should all be mature enough to address arguments rather than build and burn straw-men. (I hope.)20. Comment #108636 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 11:26 am
Horseshit al-rawandi. I don't know who you are trying to fool, but some of us have actually read the Qur'an as well as books like the Sirat Rasul Allah. You know, the earliest biography of Muhammad, written by a pious Muslim? Was Muhammad not both a political and a religious leader - or was he not? Does the Qur'an not contain numerous laws to be enforced by the state - or does it not?
More nonsense exploded by Bat Ye'or and Sam Harris.
More nonsense on stilts. Muhammad fought in 78 battels, 77 of those were aggressive war, and Islam expanded through jihad warfare to found a military empire, enslaving, degrading, and exterminating those poor souls caught in its graps. Witness the 60-70 million Hindus massacred by the 'tolerant' Muslim overlords after they swarmed over the subcontinent
21. Comment #108638 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 11:30 am
22. Comment #108639 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on January 7, 2008 at 11:30 am
23. Comment #108657 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 11:48 am
24. Comment #108675 by jeepyjay on January 7, 2008 at 12:11 pm
In response to Comment #108604 by al-rawandi, who says: "There are numerous causes in suicide terror. Many people here believe it is simply religion. All religions actively discourage suicide in their texts. So blaming religion is simply wishful thinking."25. Comment #108680 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 12:17 pm
26. Comment #108689 by Fanusi Khiyal on January 7, 2008 at 12:26 pm
al-rawandi either disprove what Sam Harris or Bat Ye'or have said, or keep quiet. Ad hominem means nothing.
Muhammad combined both the poltiical and the religious. He was 'special' for Muslims, in that he received divine revelation, not other person after attained that.
By relative standards (at the time) there was tolerance, although not to a perfect degree, but then I never said there was a perfect degree.
The Qur'an does speak of state and the actions required by state. It is a confusing document for a number of reasons, not least of which that it is contradictory.
The Moghul dynasty saw the participation of Hindus in the highest levels of government, an interesting thought to compare with the violence of the coming of Islam.
However when people think of Jihad they don't think of it in 7th century sense.
For me jihad is highly existentialist (if that makes sense)
I can see you have some emotion wound up in this
That is your wishful thinking.
27. Comment #108690 by Arcturus on January 7, 2008 at 12:27 pm
28. Comment #108697 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 12:44 pm
29. Comment #108698 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 12:46 pm
30. Comment #108702 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 12:49 pm
31. Comment #108703 by Steve Wrathall on January 7, 2008 at 12:50 pm
32. Comment #108704 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 12:52 pm
33. Comment #108723 by weavehole on January 7, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Personally, I've never understood certain folk who decry multiculturalism and seem to want to step back to a time where East was East and West was Best. All muliticulturalism ever meant to me was that I could sit in a pub with workmates from Ethiopia, Ireland, Zimbabwe, Denmark usw and by turns laugh and argue.34. Comment #108727 by Gymnopedie on January 7, 2008 at 1:31 pm
al-rawandi35. Comment #108728 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 1:33 pm
36. Comment #108729 by quill on January 7, 2008 at 1:39 pm
37. Comment #108730 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 1:39 pm
38. Comment #108732 by AllanW on January 7, 2008 at 1:40 pm
39. Comment #108734 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 1:41 pm
40. Comment #108736 by Acitta on January 7, 2008 at 1:43 pm
It seems from this review that the author treats Islam as a monolithic entity rather than a religion that is expressed differently in different countries. This kind of blanket condemnation is the kind of thing that has been used to excuse great evil. A lot of innocent people died in the bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq, who were not responsible for the evil perpetrated by the despotic governments that happened to rule over them. None of the Muslim believers that I see every day in multicultural Canada have tried to blow me up with a suicide bombs. In fact, the only major terrorist act originating in Canada was perpetrated by Sikh extremists and not Muslim, and their beef was with the government of India, not Canada or the west. It seems to me that civilizations have always clashed and that modern advances in mobility and telecommunications have simply brought cultural differences into sharper relief. While cultural conflict can be traumatic, new cultures arise from the interaction of older ones. From my point of view as a Canadian, multiculturalism has greatly enriched Canadian society. The various immigrant communities, for the most part, live in peace and respect one another. If the rest of the planet was like Canada, it would be a much better place, IMO. Condemning multiculturalism is misplaced. It is those groups, like the Muslim extremists, who don't accept multiculturalism that are the problem.41. Comment #108737 by quill on January 7, 2008 at 1:44 pm
42. Comment #108739 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 1:46 pm
43. Comment #108740 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 1:47 pm
44. Comment #108742 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 1:49 pm
45. Comment #108747 by weavehole on January 7, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Comment #108732 by AllanWI see many examples now of what 'multiculturalism' is. Essentially that anything someone does or professes from a non-white background (normally an ex-colony hence some of the guilt I suspect) should be respected and above all not judged or challenged as it is their 'culture'. I cannot think of an idea more opposed to reason or science.
46. Comment #108749 by AllanW on January 7, 2008 at 2:13 pm
47. Comment #108755 by al-rawandi on January 7, 2008 at 2:19 pm
48. Comment #108758 by weavehole on January 7, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Good question Allan.49. Comment #108761 by Sauveterre on January 7, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Condemning multiculturalism is misplaced. It is those groups, like the Muslim extremists, who don't accept multiculturalism that are the problem.
50. Comment #108763 by 82abhilash on January 7, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Just in case anyone got mislead Ayaan Hirsi Ali, was commenting in the work of Lee Harris not Sam Harris.
1. Comment #108564 by agn on January 7, 2008 at 8:44 am
Spot on by Ayaan.It is various forms of irrationality that are plaguing us, and hindering us from forming rational strategies to remove Islam from the minds of people, not reason.
A "cult of reason" is a contradiction in terms.
Other Comments by agn