1. Comment #109854 by captgridley on January 9, 2008 at 11:47 pm

Break those chains brothers!

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2. Comment #109873 by PJG on January 10, 2008 at 1:38 am

Good for them!

I do have one concern though, and maybe this is an "unforeseen consequence" of getting people to question their religions...

With all these people afraid of what their religions/organisations might do to them because of their apostasy, are we going to have to fund hoards of security guards a la AHA? It could get rather expensive!!!!

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3. Comment #109933 by k1mgy on January 10, 2008 at 4:51 am

The JW's occasionally (but only in excellent weather) show up with their "Watchtower" magazine and other bizarre publications.

I had assumed these folks were so lost and bound up by their religion that nothing could get through, so I don't waste my time in discussion: "We're not interested now, or later. Goodbye.".

Reading of this, perhaps there's some hope.

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4. Comment #109935 by bad_andy on January 10, 2008 at 4:54 am

Amen, Brother Ben and Sister Ann!

Wait... Damn it. Sorry. Force of habit.

In all seriousness, I'm glad to hear they've not just left but are speaking out. This is why apostacy is vital to Atheism and the advancement of reason.

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5. Comment #109938 by DannyHaszard on January 10, 2008 at 5:35 am

Jehovah's Witnesses are a totalitarian cult because they try to cut you off from others who do not have the same beliefs, including family.
The Watchtower is a truly Orwellian world.
--
Danny Haszard born 1957 as a 3rd generation Jehovah's Witness
http://jehovahwitness.vox.com/
I was in the cult and now I'm out

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6. Comment #109941 by jpsexton on January 10, 2008 at 5:50 am

I think part of the hesitation to come out, is the lack of the feeling that you belong to something. People, no matter their religion and/or background, are very social and need to feel like they fit in some place. In the US you can't turn around without seeing adverts for god and church telling you that you belong to them and they can support you through anything. If the same messages for atheism were as visible I think that would help a lot of people open up about their true feelings.

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7. Comment #109942 by Rodney on January 10, 2008 at 5:54 am

@ k1mgy

In my experience, having come from a Jehovahs Witness family myself, many of the young people are quite easily pursuaded and quite a large number of them reject the religion.

The Watchtower society combats this with the emotional blackmail of disfellowshipping apostates. This means your own family and freinds will no longer 'associate' with you.

As is often the case, it is the converted who are the most dedicated and immune to critical reasoning.

The unfortunate young people brought up in the religion are pretty pissed off with WTS doctrine already.

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8. Comment #109943 by Strigoia on January 10, 2008 at 5:57 am

PJG: As a former JW (I left as a teenager and became agnostic, then became an athiest some years later), I think I can safely say the only repercussions these two have to fear are social and psychological. JWs may be crazy, but at least they are pacifists. Of course, being cut off from one's family is no picnic, either. My sister and mother left the religion as well, but I have one brother who won't speak to me (I'm sure he reguarly prays for my conversion and/or destruction), and until his death in November, my father and I were always at odds with one another, though he softened in his later years.

Anyhow, I wish these two the best of luck. I can vouch for the "Orwellian" nature of this cult - it's truly scary to see as an outsider.

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9. Comment #109946 by Styrer- on January 10, 2008 at 6:12 am

That is a sad history, Strigoia

Do you mind if I ask how your de-conversion came about? Were there any significant events, realisations, texts etc. that influenced it particularly?

Once an atheist, was it uniformly easy to take confidence in your new position? Did you have any lingering doubts at all?

The testimony of individuals such as yourself is genuinely fascinating and educative, and so I hope you are not offended or bothered by my questions in any way.

Best,
Styrer

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10. Comment #109959 by funkyderek on January 10, 2008 at 7:08 am

With all these people afraid of what their religions/organisations might do to them because of their apostasy, are we going to have to fund hoards of security guards a la AHA? It could get rather expensive!!!!

The danger from JWs is virtually never one of violence. Rather, it is complete isolation from family and friends. There is no honourable way to leave the cult, and even asking questions can be enough for people to be shunned sometimes by their entire extended family and the only "friends" they have ever known.

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11. Comment #109966 by fireface on January 10, 2008 at 7:22 am

I am an atheist who is still trapped in the organization, I am lucky that my brother and sisters all feel the same way, my parents though are stuck. She is a pioneer and he is an elder, they haven't talked to my younger sister since she was dis-fellowshipped so i know what will happen to me if I go public. I don't care to much but I work for my dad and would be in a bad position if i left, I still have a house payment and 3 kids. I envy all of you very much ad wish i could get out publicly, for now i will just go to the circuit assembly and try to ignore all the lies.

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12. Comment #109968 by Fire1974 on January 10, 2008 at 7:38 am

I recently had a long talk with two JW women who came to my door. They were completely unprepared for someone who knew the bible well, yet had no respect for it's authority.

They repeatedly sited verses where god declared his greatness and his wonderful, totalitarian vision for our lives and souls. They were aghast at my polite, yet outright dismissal of these "because I said so" statements. It had never occurred to them to ask themselves why they've accepted this "deal".

It is clearly ALL about submission in this cult.

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13. Comment #109975 by Diacanu on January 10, 2008 at 7:51 am

Here's my Jehova's Witness anecdote.

It was back in high school, I was on the bus, and being my usual comedic genius self, and because of my colorful sense of humor, one of the kids went "damn, (my real surname) is a friggin devil worshipper!!".

Well, we had a substitute bus driver that day, and I thought nothing of it.

Sure enough, later that afternoon, about around suppertime, he and a stooge knock on our door to deliver a copy of a pamphlet about devil worship, and it leading to demon possession and some shit.

I flipped through it for some ironic laughs.

Creepy shit.
Almost Jack Chick-y.

And I noticed almost all the possessed satanists in the painted illustrations were black for some reason.

Didn't know whether to roar with laughter or shake with gooseflesh.
I pucked the pamphlet, and ate supper, and knew I had a handy story for the future.

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14. Comment #109981 by clunkclickeverytrip on January 10, 2008 at 8:32 am

fireface - I am very sorry to hear about your predicament. Your financial dependence on your father certainly complicates your situation. I hope you find a way to reach a degree of financial independence that permits you the freedom to be able to be honest with your family about your real position on religion, for the sake of your own sanity and the future of your children. If that includes being shunned, then so be it. If your parents put their faith above love of their children then you have to put caring for youself and your family above your parents.
You will be able to find at least emotional support in local humanist or atheist organizations. There will always be RD.net for ongoing interaction with like-minded people.
Good luck.

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15. Comment #109982 by detox on January 10, 2008 at 8:40 am

fireface

JW's come round my house and wake me up on a Saturday morning which is mildly irritating at worst and mildly entertaining at best as I chuckle to myself while letting them quote passages from the bible.

Your situation sounds anything but mild. It's distressing to think that you have to maintain a charade for the sake of your livelihood - though understandable.

Being true to yourself, of course, you should confront your parents, outline their delusion and seek another job if they are not convinced by the argument. Easier said than done especially with your family and home to consider.

Apart from offering my support across the ether I could suggest you drop in here to drink from the oasis from time to time to combat the nonsense poured in your ear at your meetings. Take comfort in the freedom from irrationailty here and in your siblings. And, assuming you have to take your kids, try your best not to let them succumb to the gibberish. Best of luck.

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16. Comment #109984 by Stephen Maxwell on January 10, 2008 at 8:45 am

Fireface, I'm interested to find out whether or not your 3 children are members of the JW cult.

Best of luck to you anyway.

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17. Comment #109995 by annabanana on January 10, 2008 at 9:05 am

I remember being in elementary school with twins who were JW. They were always really irritated with it because they could never participate in any of the parties or even receive birthday presents from their friends. I'm pretty sure both of them left the church sometime around high school, although, I'm not sure because they moved away. It seems like that would be enough to make kids stray away from it when their friends are all eating cookies and cupcakes and getting cool presents for their birthdays.

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18. Comment #110003 by PJG on January 10, 2008 at 9:19 am

Re my post at 2.

I was joking! Maybe I am not using the correct method of showing this... I thought lots of exclamation marks would convey this. Should I have used :o) instead? (I am fairly new to this)

If, on the other hand, what I posted was seen to be a joke but thought to be in bad taste, then I would like to apologise for the offence and then say I think it is great when people embrace reason and I expect it is at once liberating and terrifying. I commend them fully and admire them when they leave their religion knowing they will pay a price in losing family and friends (in some cases, like JWs) or more extreme reactions in others (like Islam). To the JWs on this thread, good luck to you.

Fire1974 I do just what you describe. It isn't a waste of time as there are some who are more open than others and I really enjoy the "sport" (Joke!). Last time, one even took down the details of "Misquoting Jesus". Though I doubt she will read it, I felt it was a start.

Slowly, slowly.

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19. Comment #110008 by icantlogoff on January 10, 2008 at 9:30 am

I guess i was lucky as both my parents and brother still talk to without hesitation ( I am an ex-jw , and told my father I no longer believe in any gods at all)
The comment in the article about them being scared about the religion tracking them down seems over the top, unless they are joining our congregation i can't see why they would even bother.

The hardest part about leaving the JW is that friends you have had all your life (if you were born and raised) Just stop speaking to you. I found that the hardest, what i considered a best friend, to suddenly act as if i never existed. That psychological attack is very hard for young and old to deal with. While your in you are pointed to only having friends that are JW's which means if you leave you have no social circle. And they openly admit that its tactic is to shame the 'wrong doer' into returning.

Always tap the ones that come to door with the evolution issue, as their entire knowledge on the subject comes from their book 'Life how did it get here' ( read it if you have a chance) the errors and faulty logic is almost priceless.

Just one comment on Annabanana note:
I never had trouble not taking part in the whose birthday thing etc. It a odd thing but it is very hard to miss something you never had, as all you know is what it looks like from a distance. I of course can't speak for eveyone, but i never struggled with it. The thing i hated the most was not being able to date.

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20. Comment #110014 by robotaholic on January 10, 2008 at 9:45 am

Since my parents are jws and I was raised as one I think I can say in all honesty that jehovah's witnesses are a christian version of islam without the violence. The level of brainwashing is truely insidious.

Freedom from religion is magnificent!

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21. Comment #110017 by righton on January 10, 2008 at 9:56 am

Wasnt Michael Jackson brought up a JW. Its really sad, what JW are put through.

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22. Comment #110020 by Quine on January 10, 2008 at 10:02 am

One of the most useful aspects of discussion on this site is the opportunity for the rest of us to hear the inside story of religious tactics to hold members. My admiration goes to all who must pay a family price to speak truth.

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23. Comment #110023 by Rodney on January 10, 2008 at 10:11 am

'Life; How did it get here' is a terrible book.

I gave my dad (JW) some books on evolution in the hope that having read them he would discover for himself how disingenuous the Watchtower literature really was. I thought that if he realised the Watchtower had mislead him on this particular issue he would question their authority in other areas.

Unfortunately, I think the organisation has eroded his critical thinking skills.

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24. Comment #110024 by Rodney on January 10, 2008 at 10:14 am

seems there are quite a few people on here who have experience, of one sort or another, with the Watchtower Society.

fireface,

I sympathise with your situation and I think its terrible than such a decision has been imposed on you.

I dont think its right that other posters write what you 'should' do but I hope you one day find a way of reconciling these differences.

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25. Comment #110029 by Strigoia on January 10, 2008 at 10:43 am

Styrer: I don't mind at all. However, this is going to be a long comment, so my apologies to everyone else. :D To be honest, it was so long ago (I'm 27 now, and I left in my teens) that I really couldn't pinpoint any one thing that led up to it. I know that as I got older and my critical thinking skills developed, I couldn't justify the actions of the people around me. I was also sick of being pressured to get baptized (JWs baptize people as adults because they want them to make a conscious commitment, but I've known them to baptize people as young as 7 - at 14, I was positively old by their standards).

If you want specific things, I guess I could name a couple. For one, there was one woman who was very respected in our congregation who told me that if someone she was studying with (we called them "calls," as in to call upon someone) wasn't progressing after six months, she would drop them. I was offended by the idea that she felt someone could be written off as a waste of time. Additionally, when I was fifteen (and already more or less fed up with everything), I watched my best friend's father tell her that she should drop out of school to preach full-time. He'd convinced her two oldest brothers to do so, but thankfully failed with his three youngest children. If I recall, he told her something along the lines of: "I can't imagine what you can learn in school that will help you more than devoting this time to the ministry."

There were a lot of other things that bothered me, too, such as the assertion that homosexuality and abortion are evil, that women are inferior to men, the crusade against secular education, et cetera. I also hated the idea that we shouldn't read information others gave us when we went to their door, lest it "shake our faith in Jehovah." If our faith was the correct one, shouldn't we be able to read anything and logically refute it? (Obviously, I was still young enough to think "logic" and "faith" could play in the same pool.)

After I stopped attending meetings, it took me a long time to figure out what I actually believed in. I started calling myself an agnostic after a year or so, then finally adopted the label "atheist" in my mid-twenties (though I had actually been an atheist for several years, I was still afraid of the label).

As for doubts, well... not really. I'm a much better person now than I was as a JW. Whereas before my idea of charity was preaching, I now volunteer, give to homeless people, donate to charities, and even once ran a fundraiser to benefit AIDS victims (and plan to do so again soon). I vote in every election, now that I'm allowed, and when I die I can donate my organs without fear of some wrathful deity. As an evolutionist, I believe that human life is not magically more valuable than animal life, and have been a vegetarian for more than eight years. Instead of devoting myself to knocking on doors, I'm studying to get my MLS so I devote myself to getting kids to read. And perhaps best of all, if I ever have a child and he/she needs a blood transfusion, I won't sacrifice him/her to the whims of the Watchtower Society. If there is a god out there keeping scorecards, I feel much more confident in my chances now. I only wish I could convince more people to walk this road with me.

Sorry for the novel-length post!

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26. Comment #110033 by Steve Zara on January 10, 2008 at 11:06 am

Sorry for the novel-length post!

I can only speak for myself, but you should not apologise. Thank you for telling your story.

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27. Comment #110048 by Styrer- on January 10, 2008 at 11:46 am

Strigoia

What a stirring, inspirational story - thank you so much for taking the time to share it.

As Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford, Dawkins is repeatedly on record stating his concern that faith is fundamentally and unavoidably in conflict with science and reason, such that proper education can be compromised. How horribly real and pressing this concern is made by those nauseating words of your friend's father: 'I can't imagine what you can learn in school that will help you more than devoting this time to the ministry.' Your testimony could be a useful addition to the Professor's arsenal of examples of the pernicious effects of religion on education. Should be right up his 'Public Understanding' street!

Your numerous admirable activities post-theism yet again demolish the perverse notion of the theists that there can be no morality or genuinely good deeds without belief in a deity. Until the next time their 'idee fixe' makes an appearance, of course.

Again, thank you - your story illustrates precisely the issues this site, as I see it, seeks to confront. I look forward to reading your take on many future topics on these threads.

All good wishes,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

28. Comment #110052 by justdust on January 10, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Being married to a JW for 20 years (though she's not an ultra) and from the outside looking in the word that keeps coming back to me again and again with JWs is "creepy". (Not my wife I hasten to add!)

A lot of the JW's I know are nice people - though the higher up the hierachy you go the creepier it gets - but I am always aware of the coercion, the checking up, the studying. They must be the best rehearsed of all the religions (possibly bar Isalm) and will give the studied party line in a calm and measured way.

I hate the pioneering, the medical totems, the rejection of democracy and the outcasting.

Like a lot of religions they seem to have more then their fair share of people who have genuine social problems - but the religion includes them and that inclusion does bring them real comfort. That isn't something so easy to replicate in the atheist world.

Our teenage children have all been to the meetings and I think they go now out of loyalty to my wife rather than any ingrained beliefs - but I can see how it would be difficult if both parents were JWs.

Baptising is on the horizon for our kids. I can see it is going to be a problem.

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29. Comment #110057 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on January 10, 2008 at 12:30 pm

The debate with theists across the globe continues:-)

For those of you who have had your fill of "atheism sucks", try some of other links at the top of the thread.

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33112&p=602964#p602964

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30. Comment #110081 by EeekiE on January 10, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Ex Jovo' here too. As a baby I would study a TV remote or other random object for hours, how on Earth did my parents think they'd keep my mind locked up in this cult!

All you have to do is think your way out! :D

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31. Comment #110082 by ExGodBotherer on January 10, 2008 at 1:05 pm

"You move from 'I can't be in this religion' to 'Is any religion worth my time?'" says Ann. "And then you wonder, if there is a god, then why does it look like there's not? Then it comes down to, you don't really need a god to explain the universe."

Gosh, how beautifully succinct. this is equivalent to e=mc2.

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32. Comment #110092 by Homo economicus on January 10, 2008 at 1:26 pm

And yet another ex student of Jehovah's Witnesses. Thankfully learnt the history of the organisation before I was baptised at 14.

My deconversion story can be found in Converts' Corner #160

http://richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner,page4

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33. Comment #110126 by D'Arcy on January 10, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Personally, I have much fun with any JW unfortunate enough to knock on my door. "Who was Cain's wife?" and "Will the lion's digestive system have evolved in heaven so that it can lie down with the lamb?" are among some of the thoughts I put to the faithful. Whilst empathising with those ex Christians (JWs) who have posted above, as a fellow human being, I can't help get angry about the social control used by such organisations. If their God is so all powerful as is claimed, why do they not rely on His actions to sort things out?

D'Arcy's short answer is that He ain't there and He can't sort anything out. It's all up to us humans.

Other Comments by D'Arcy

34. Comment #110133 by AllanW on January 10, 2008 at 2:29 pm

Re; comment #110126

I think you have hit upon something there. D'Arcy. I want a bumper-sticker/badge/button/t-shirt with the slogan;

"He ain't there; it's up to us."

Pithy, sacrilegious, inclusive; I like it.

Other Comments by AllanW

35. Comment #110154 by DCogswell on January 10, 2008 at 2:47 pm

That is a great story from Strigoia.

I've always wondered what we can do to advance atheism and make it easier for more people to see the truth in it. To me, one of the ways to do this would be to collect stories such as this and find common threads in them. We then know what works and where our efforts are most useful. When you get enough stories, they move from being anecdotal to being hard data (x number of converts saw the light after so-and-so happened to them). If nothing else, it would make for inspiring reading.

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36. Comment #110200 by Styrer- on January 10, 2008 at 4:00 pm

DCogswell

Well said. Hopefully such a collection would prove more than simply 'inspiring'.

It is suggestions like this that I am very anxious to see put in train.

The vast majority of us will unfortunately never be able to engage with large numbers of people a la Dawkins et al, and so it is by smaller, but no less significant, efforts like this that considerable advancements may be made.

So DCogswell - what are you doing still reading this post? Get busy!

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

37. Comment #110223 by Z3r0 on January 10, 2008 at 4:38 pm

I was also raised JW, as was most of my family, most of them are still in.

What changed my thinking was the book they published "Life - How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or By Creation?" The logic in the book for creation was faulty, later learning more about evolution convinced me that the book could not have been inspired by Jehovah.

By the time I was 16 I became agnostic and left the "Truth". After learning more about evolution and other religions I became an atheist. The challenge for me was overcoming fear of demons, and adjusting to a society that celebrates Christmas and other holidays without a family.

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38. Comment #110237 by MelM on January 10, 2008 at 5:01 pm

"Shackled by faith to the delusions of faith." A very serious problem! Perhaps the stories of those able to escape will help us understand what's going on inside these cults and how to break through and appeal to the reason suppressed by mind-control (from self and others). Maybe one cult at a time will have to be targeted--don't know. But, a book by one of the 4 Musketeers about JW mind-control would be very interesting I'm sure.

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39. Comment #110250 by appaZ on January 10, 2008 at 5:25 pm

Though I visit this web site every day, I seldom post a comment. I watch, read and download everything I possibly can, and do my best to share atheism with anyone who will listen. Today though, I have been truely inspired. I would like to thank all of you who shared your stories of courage and renewal.
I was fortunate enough to be raised by a father who's final instuction to my mother before he died was -

" I do not want a priest within ten miles of me "

That statement is now fokelore in our family. Thanks again and I hope all goes well in the future.

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40. Comment #110265 by Styrer- on January 10, 2008 at 7:36 pm

Homo economicus (fabulous name, BTW)

Thanks for the referral to your history. Clearly Douglas Adams' influence looms large here, and understandably so, given the genius and sheer wonderful 'humanness' (absent so often and so conspicuously in the faithful) this much-missed man showed in his writings and in his all too few screen appearances.

May your story be added with your permission to DCogswell's imminent compilation! It would be an important addition.

Finally, and perhaps pedantically, may I ask you to explain the distinction between personal freedom and individual liberty in your statement: 'Secularism is about protecting personal freedom and individual liberty.'

If it is simply enthusiastic repetition, no problem, but I wondered if you intended something I haven't quite grasped.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

41. Comment #110266 by Fire1974 on January 10, 2008 at 7:36 pm

I too am touched by the stories from fireface & Strigoia.

I would like to bring to light the fact that ANY religion (if taken seriously) is just as mind mind shackling and controlling as another.

I am a refugee from a fundamentalist Christian/Lutheran upbringing. I can remember being taught how crazy and misguided those JW's and Mormons were by my sunday-school teachers. In my formative-christian years I would engage in debate with those missionaries and "pioneers" who knocked on my door about their "misinterpretation" of the bible. Little did I know, I was just as misguided and subjugated as they were.

Even though I love it when Sam Harris says, "Mormonism is just Christianity, plus some rather stupid ideas." All religion is just consciousness, plus some rather stupid ideas.

Other Comments by Fire1974

42. Comment #110267 by SMART on January 10, 2008 at 7:46 pm

I too am an ex J.W. If you want to have a little fun the next time they knock on your door, tell them you have a few questions for them...

According to the Feb 15 2006 Watchtower, in July 1945 Jehovah God "doctrinally enlightened" His chosen people regarding His new policy on blood transfusions. But the technique of transfusing blood was perfected (more or less) in 1916.

Ask them why, if the blood issue is SO important, why did God wait 29 years to announce this change of policy. Was He asleep at the switch? And how exactly did this enlightenment happen?(the Witnesses have never been told). Was it a in the form of a vision, or maybe a pen moved across a page? Ask them why would God view it as perfectly okay to receive a blood transfusion in 1944 but not 1945? At this point I guarantee blank stares followed by, "We'll get back to you!"

There's more fun with J.W.'s at www.smartsociety.org/allreligionsokay.html

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43. Comment #110270 by Styrer- on January 10, 2008 at 7:58 pm

SMART

Thanks for the nod.

But I must express linguistic concern over your two capitalised possessive adjectives and your capitalised subject pronoun.

Having trouble shrugging it off completely?

I shall reluctantly let 'Witnesses' and 'God' go through on this occasion...

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

44. Comment #110271 by 82abhilash on January 10, 2008 at 8:03 pm

I found the link to this video from a site run by ex-JW called 'Watch the tower' - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2183288529160546808&q=jehovah%27s+witness

It is old but it useful.

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45. Comment #110273 by SMART on January 10, 2008 at 8:26 pm

Thank you Styrer (#43) for putting me straight.. I'm so used to writing to religious people and having to communicate in their language... old habits die hard!

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46. Comment #110277 by prettygoodformonkeys on January 10, 2008 at 8:41 pm

Maybe they could join the Jehovah's Witness Protection Program

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47. Comment #110278 by Nenayahi on January 10, 2008 at 8:55 pm

I was raised by JW's; the worst thing about this religion is how it destroys families, family relationships. The side of my family that was JW reached back to my grandparents. The other side, I never bonded with because of the divide. All of the friends I was allowed to make; JW. After leaving this religion I was left with virtually no social contacts. It was very depressing. If you can survive that transition, you will be okay. I'm lucky that my mother still speaks to me, but the only reason being is that I was never baptized and therefore not an official "apostate". If I was, then we probably couldn't have the relationship we have today. I know, because my biological father was "disfellowshipped". I agree, the whole "tracking us down" thing is quite silly. The worst thing that will happen is they will lose their families, and friends. However, that is traumatic when you grow up isolated from "worldly" people and surrounded by JW's. I've seen it result in suicides.
I often meet ex-JW atheists. There must be something about this religion that creates alot of atheists. You're raised to "debunk" every other religion out there, and when you finally realize your religion is as baseless as the others, you're finally free.

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48. Comment #110280 by discipline on January 10, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Wow -- I had no idea there were so many ex-JWs on this site. Truly inspirational stories. There may be hope after all...

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49. Comment #110314 by PJG on January 11, 2008 at 1:11 am

Yes, truly inspirational stories on here. Just wonderful.

However, (and slightly off topic, I know) one or two put me in mind of something that I have noticed creeping into the arguments of Christian apologists lately (it seems to be replacing the irrelevant "Atheist Dictator" argument), that any morality/altruism shown by atheists comes from the "Christian tradition/culture".

It is a totally one-way argument, of course, because whereas they will use the idea that famous atheists like Mother Teresa (heh heh!!), even if they did not feel the presence of God, still did the good things they did because of their former faith (I'm not saying MT did good things, yes, I have read The Missionary Position, but the perception of most is that she did good things), they NEVER suggest that atheists like Stalin (or, as they claim he was an atheist, Hitler) did the terrible things they did because of their "former" faith.

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50. Comment #110395 by defaithed on January 11, 2008 at 5:36 am

Another ex-JW here. I fell out around age 20, even though I was "baptized" – but the whole family was drifting out, so that wasn't a problem. Very interesting to read the experiences. (Strigoia, your story read a lot like mine. Z3r0, you mention "fear of demons" – man, that's really a nasty mind trip that the JWs place on kids, isn't it? Demons everywhere, ready to attack any time... Folks, you want "haunted house" stories with a Christian twist, the JWs got 'em.)

I guess I was one of those kids who always had doubts but suppressed that voice. (After all, He can even read your mind...) I'd see the "map" in one of the books (I forget which) that innocently plopped a dinosaur (Plateosaur-looking, IIRC) among ancient peoples. So did this mean dinosaurs lived with people? And nobody really had a clear answer; it was firmly in "don't think or ask about it too much" territory. Then there were the eating conditions in "paradise": if we wouldn't be eating meat any more, what about fish? No more shrimp, even? "Don't worry, it's all part of the plan and will get worked out. Concentrate on what's important here and now..."

It was eye-opening here to read the depth of unhappy experiences with "disfellowshipping". I've been a little oblivious to that aspect, as the family's departure from "the Truth" coincided with physical moves, and the reaction of the old congregation didn't have such an impact. At least not for me. My friends tended to be non-JW anyway (I guess I got away with it because, like me, they tended to be "good kids" that even a JW parent couldn't complain much about.)

In the end, "losing" all the old JW acquaintances in the congregation didn't bother me much, and the reason is both sad and a little funny: in all honesty, I never liked many of them to begin with. : ) (Still, I can understand that other ex-members lost close relationships and underwent real pain.)

Strange times... strange times, they were.

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