New Findings Confirm Darwin's Theory: Evolution Not Random2. Comment #113378 by LoneStarAssman87 on January 19, 2008 at 1:13 pm
"Evolution Not Random"3. Comment #113379 by Steve Zara on January 19, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Erm.....
"through the natural selection of successful traits"
I thought that WAS evolution.
The "successful trait" creature got to make babies (on average) more than "non-successful trait."
What am I missing?
"Evolution Not Random"
We didn't know this already? I think I'm missing the significance of these findings...
4. Comment #113380 by Diacanu on January 19, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Evolution Not Random
5. Comment #113381 by Paula Kirby on January 19, 2008 at 1:15 pm
6. Comment #113386 by LorienRyan on January 19, 2008 at 1:24 pm
7. Comment #113387 by Zakie Chan on January 19, 2008 at 1:25 pm
8. Comment #113391 by Ian on January 19, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Part of me feels that these people have just charged an open door.9. Comment #113393 by Steinsky on January 19, 2008 at 1:39 pm
10. Comment #113394 by Goldy on January 19, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Using the giraffe example, there would not be a common neck-lengthening trend; some would develop long necks, while others would develop short ones
11. Comment #113395 by Steve Zara on January 19, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Am I the only person to be picky this way?
12. Comment #113396 by Diacanu on January 19, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Evolution has a direction
13. Comment #113397 by Steve Zara on January 19, 2008 at 1:47 pm
You've gotta be careful with language like that though, cuz it gives comfort to assholes like social darwinists, who think evolution is a ladder going towards human ideas of strength and intelligence.
14. Comment #113399 by Goldy on January 19, 2008 at 1:50 pm
15. Comment #113401 by Double Bass Atheist on January 19, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Shouldn't this article have a dateline of 1859?
Evolution isn't a path or a ladder toward any particular ideal.
Evolution doesn't give a shit about ideals.
16. Comment #113403 by Donald on January 19, 2008 at 1:59 pm
[ Edit: This post was made before I read the paper, and turned out to be irrelevant and inaccurate speculation. I have left it here because later comments referred to it. ]17. Comment #113406 by octopus on January 19, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Evolution has a direction
18. Comment #113408 by Steve Zara on January 19, 2008 at 2:10 pm
In fact this is fascinating research. I think what is being claimed is that observed variation is not random in respect of whether it is advantageous or disadvantageous to the organism. Rather, that advantageous variation is much more common than disadvantageous variation.
Now, the findings of an international team of biologists demonstrate that evolution is not a random process, but rather occurs through the natural selection of successful traits.
19. Comment #113411 by Vinelectric on January 19, 2008 at 2:14 pm
We propose that developmental evolution is primarily governed by selection and/or selection-independent constraints, not stochastic processes such as drift in unconstrained phenotypic space.
20. Comment #113412 by Rational_G on January 19, 2008 at 2:14 pm
21. Comment #113416 by jshuey on January 19, 2008 at 2:32 pm
22. Comment #113423 by BGordon on January 19, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Hi all,23. Comment #113425 by ianmkz on January 19, 2008 at 2:45 pm
24. Comment #113433 by Donald on January 19, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Steve:25. Comment #113437 by athegan on January 19, 2008 at 3:09 pm
An opposing theory says evolution takes place through randomly inherited and not necessarily advantageous changes. Using the giraffe example, there would not be a common neck-lengthening trend; some would develop long necks, while others would develop short ones.
26. Comment #113443 by Shane McKee on January 19, 2008 at 3:12 pm
27. Comment #113444 by Vinelectric on January 19, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Trends, stasis, and drift in the evolution of nematode vulva development.
Kiontke K, Barrière A, Kolotuev I, Podbilewicz B, Sommer R, Fitch DH, Félix MA.
Department of Biology, New York University, Main Building, Room 1009, 100 Washington Square East, New York, New York 10003, USA. kk52@nyu.edu
BACKGROUND: A surprising amount of developmental variation has been observed for otherwise highly conserved features, a phenomenon known as developmental system drift. Either stochastic processes (e.g., drift and absence of selection-independent constraints) or deterministic processes (e.g., selection or constraints) could be the predominate mechanism for the evolution of such variation. We tested whether evolutionary patterns of change were unbiased or biased, as predicted by the stochastic or deterministic hypotheses, respectively. As a model, we used the nematode vulva, a highly conserved, essential organ, the development of which has been intensively studied in the model systems Caenorhabditis elegans and Pristionchus pacificus.
RESULTS: For 51 rhabditid species, we analyzed more than 40 characteristics of vulva development, including cell fates, fate induction, cell competence, division patterns, morphogenesis, and related aspects of gonad development. We then defined individual characters and plotted their evolution on a phylogeny inferred for 65 species from three nuclear gene sequences. This taxon-dense phylogeny provides for the first time a highly resolved picture of rhabditid evolution and allows the reconstruction of the number and directionality of changes in the vulva development characters. We found an astonishing amount of variation and an even larger number of evolutionary changes, suggesting a high degree of homoplasy (convergences and reversals). Surprisingly, only two characters showed unbiased evolution. Evolution of all other characters was biased.
CONCLUSIONS: We propose that developmental evolution is primarily governed by selection and/or selection-independent constraints, not stochastic processes such as drift in unconstrained phenotypic space.
PMID: 18024125 [PubMed - in process]
28. Comment #113447 by ianmkz on January 19, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Much of research in evolutionary developmental biology
is concerned with elucidating how divergent and novel
features have evolved or how the same type of feature
has evolved convergently [1–5]. However, there are
many features that have remained largely static, even
over vast evolutionary distances between species [2].
It might be expected that purifying selection would
also prevent change to the developmental mechanisms
that give rise to such features. Indeed, one of the main
architects of molecular evolution, Emile Zuckerkandl,
predicted that stabilizing selection on the phenotype
would be reflected in stability of the underlying molecular
features [6]. Nevertheless, several examples from
a variety of different systems demonstrate that a large
amount of variation has evolved in the development of
homologous, highly conserved features [2].
29. Comment #113448 by Steve Zara on January 19, 2008 at 3:18 pm
30. Comment #113450 by Vinelectric on January 19, 2008 at 3:22 pm
31. Comment #113451 by ianmkz on January 19, 2008 at 3:22 pm
32. Comment #113455 by Donald on January 19, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Ok, I've read the paper now. http://www.current-biology.com/content/article/fulltext?uid=PIIS096098220702193833. Comment #113465 by quill on January 19, 2008 at 4:18 pm
34. Comment #113488 by Nick6742 on January 19, 2008 at 6:16 pm
35. Comment #113517 by dragonfirematrix on January 19, 2008 at 9:33 pm
36. Comment #113518 by Socrates on January 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm
This article is just so bizarre...37. Comment #113528 by oriole on January 20, 2008 at 12:01 am
In "The Blind Watchmaker", Dawkins talks about mutationists, a strange school of evolutionists who accept not just micro-evolution but also macro-evolution (they are not ID'ers), but think random DNA mutations alone do the trick; they reject natural selection, or at least think it plays a relatively trivial role. Dawkins points out that they do not have an alternative explanation of why evolution proceeds so rapidly and obviously leads to favourable outcomes, and it's pretty clear that he regards the theory as at best incomplete and perhaps even incoherent. The research mentioned in this article would seem to be intended to refute the mutationists.38. Comment #113546 by rodch on January 20, 2008 at 1:51 am
Steve Zara:Does make one wonder how they got from that to the Science Daily article... a lot of mutations in the process it seems!
39. Comment #113571 by d4m14n on January 20, 2008 at 4:23 am
So is this basically saying that genetic drift is BS?40. Comment #113823 by Godless Heathen on January 20, 2008 at 5:06 pm
41. Comment #113850 by Bobington on January 20, 2008 at 6:51 pm
This article confuses and angers me.42. Comment #113852 by kezz on January 20, 2008 at 6:53 pm
43. Comment #113954 by Azven on January 21, 2008 at 4:40 am
44. Comment #114284 by TSSI on January 21, 2008 at 6:41 pm
The press releases, such as Science Daily uses, are but one source for TSSI articles. In addition to the release, we do independent research on a subject, including various university and institute sources as well as the paper itself before we write and publish an article.45. Comment #114720 by ianmkz on January 22, 2008 at 4:00 pm
So is this basically saying that genetic drift is BS?
46. Comment #117684 by Spin-oza on January 29, 2008 at 11:28 am
BIZARRO... studying vulvar development among Nematodes... sheesh!
1. Comment #113375 by AshtonBlack on January 19, 2008 at 1:06 pm
"through the natural selection of successful traits"
I thought that WAS evolution.
The "successful trait" creature got to make babies (on average) more than "non-successful trait."
What am I missing?
Other Comments by AshtonBlack