Why multiculturalism must be abandoned2. Comment #125127 by Steve Zara on February 11, 2008 at 2:24 am
3. Comment #125133 by BaronOchs on February 11, 2008 at 2:32 am
4. Comment #125135 by Henri Bergson on February 11, 2008 at 2:37 am
5. Comment #125144 by tieInterceptor on February 11, 2008 at 2:52 am
6. Comment #125145 by Peacebeuponme on February 11, 2008 at 2:54 am
The young Hari talks a lot of sense, presenting his arguments with clarity and useful information.Excellent point. Hari's columns in the Independent are always a pleasure to read. Condell makes me cringe more often than not.
I have moaned somewhat about the recent Condell video on this subject, posted on this site. I feel strongly that this is the way to do things: Hari has it right.
7. Comment #125148 by BaronOchs on February 11, 2008 at 2:56 am
this article is really good, she makes a lot of sense.
8. Comment #125157 by davem on February 11, 2008 at 3:14 am
This article needs to be sent to the Archbishop...9. Comment #125160 by AllanW on February 11, 2008 at 3:17 am
10. Comment #125162 by gcdavis on February 11, 2008 at 3:18 am
11. Comment #125179 by JemyM on February 11, 2008 at 3:32 am
12. Comment #125180 by Corylus on February 11, 2008 at 3:32 am
...bashing the bishop has become a national sport.I can only pressure that Mr Hari is innocently unaware of the colloquial use of this term.
13. Comment #125188 by Ian Bamlett on February 11, 2008 at 3:50 am
the Archbishop of Canterbury has been chorusing: how do you solve a problem like Sharia?
14. Comment #125190 by Geoff on February 11, 2008 at 3:51 am
I can only pressure that Mr Hari is innocently unaware of the colloquial use of this term.
15. Comment #125217 by oisha on February 11, 2008 at 4:36 am
16. Comment #125224 by Heretic on February 11, 2008 at 5:10 am
17. Comment #125230 by Steve Zara on February 11, 2008 at 5:18 am
Race is a non-issue here
18. Comment #125231 by Tyler Durden on February 11, 2008 at 5:18 am
"how do you solve - a problem like Shareeeahhh?"Actually, I was singing "I've just met a law named Sharia" from West Side Story :)
19. Comment #125242 by nickthelight on February 11, 2008 at 5:42 am
20. Comment #125243 by Ian Bamlett on February 11, 2008 at 5:43 am
Actually, I was singing "I've just met a law named Sharia" from West Side Story :)
21. Comment #125244 by Steve Zara on February 11, 2008 at 5:46 am
Down with the liberal wimps. We need to stop bending over backwards to entertain peoples ideals. Take it or leave it; we are all equal before the law.
22. Comment #125249 by SilentSkeptic on February 11, 2008 at 6:10 am
23. Comment #125265 by Chris Bell on February 11, 2008 at 6:40 am
A proposal for a new law:24. Comment #125267 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 6:46 am
The Archbishop of Canterbury made a tremendous blunder. He mentioned the word 'Sharia'. Pavlovian responses immediately overwhelm all rational debate. Johann Hari heard the trigger as 'multiculturalism' and the result was the same inability to understand the naive but subtle arguments of the Archbishop, The Beth Din (Jewish courts) seek to propagate and enforce senseless rules. There is nothing like senseless rules for promoting group solidarity. Yet, in the spirit of democracy, tolerance and lack of dogmatism, we should welcome this cultural diversity, where it does not, as the Archbishop would agree,go against human rights25. Comment #125270 by gcdavis on February 11, 2008 at 6:58 am
26. Comment #125278 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 7:13 am
"if Williams had been talking about integrating hindu customs into our law it would have passed with far less comment. "27. Comment #125281 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 7:19 am
Yet, in the spirit of democracy, tolerance and lack of dogmatism, we should welcome this cultural diversity
28. Comment #125284 by Incredulous on February 11, 2008 at 7:29 am
For the first time in a long time, someone has begun a sensitive and yet honest conversation about multiculturalism.It has become a feel-good doctrine mindlessly celebrating "difference", without looking at what that difference actually means.
"By creating different laws and judicial systems for each ethnic group, we are not fighting racism. In fact, we are institutionalising it."
29. Comment #125289 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 7:41 am
Beth Din courts defer to English law in almost everything, would Sharia courts do the same? 27. Comment #125281 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 7:19 am30. Comment #125290 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 7:44 am
'"By creating different laws and judicial systems for each ethnic group, we are not fighting racism. In fact, we are institutionalising it." 28. Comment #125284 by Incredulous on February 11, 2008 at 7:29 am '31. Comment #125297 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 7:56 am
32. Comment #125300 by oisha on February 11, 2008 at 8:00 am
33. Comment #125324 by Bonzai on February 11, 2008 at 8:31 am
34. Comment #125332 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 8:44 am
"...all must be subject to the overall law of the land, not their own. 31. Comment #125297 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 7:56 am "35. Comment #125336 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 8:54 am
This is a two-way process. The 'law of the land" is ever-changing
36. Comment #125337 by Bonzai on February 11, 2008 at 8:57 am
The difficulty with that is that people have different ideas of what "equal before the law" means.
I remember hearing the following argument against gay rights : "Gay men have the same rights as 'normal' men - they can marry women too."
37. Comment #125342 by AllanW on February 11, 2008 at 9:01 am
38. Comment #125343 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 9:02 am
"Separate laws for separate communities is a recipe for insular segregation.35. Comment #125336 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 8:54 am"39. Comment #125345 by Bonzai on February 11, 2008 at 9:03 am
40. Comment #125346 by AllanW on February 11, 2008 at 9:05 am
41. Comment #125349 by al-rawandi on February 11, 2008 at 9:14 am
42. Comment #125350 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 9:15 am
"Regardless of interpretation, a central idea of Sharia is exactly to slot people based on religion39. Comment #125345 by Bonzai on February 11, 2008 at 9:03 am "43. Comment #125353 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 9:19 am
I'm having trouble figuring out what we mean by 'laws'
Beth Din (Jewish courts) lay down all sorts of rules which consenting Jews are supposed to obey. I imagine anything Islamic would be the same.
44. Comment #125355 by al-rawandi on February 11, 2008 at 9:24 am
45. Comment #125356 by HughCaldwell on February 11, 2008 at 9:24 am
"You must understand the danger of there being different legal systems for different groups within one country. 43. Comment #125353 by Quetzalcoatl on February 11, 2008 at 9:19 am "46. Comment #125358 by Bonzai on February 11, 2008 at 9:26 am
Once the state was established in a more serious manner these communities were allowed to maintain these legal institutions and were forced to pay a tax. They were excused from military service, but were largely discriminated against in all areas of life, however never forced to convert, so long as they were Christian or Jewish or in some instances Zoroastrian and Hindu.
47. Comment #125362 by wednesdayguevara on February 11, 2008 at 9:30 am
Are Beth Din courts presided over exclusively by men? If so, they, as Sharia courts, have no place in a liberal democracy.48. Comment #125368 by al-rawandi on February 11, 2008 at 9:34 am
49. Comment #125369 by Partisan on February 11, 2008 at 9:35 am
50. Comment #125370 by Bonzai on February 11, 2008 at 9:35 am
I'm having trouble figuring out what we mean by 'laws'. Beth Din (Jewish courts) lay down all sorts of rules which consenting Jews are supposed to obey. I imagine anything Islamic would be the same. This is my idea of multiculturalism.
1. Comment #125121 by eoinc on February 11, 2008 at 2:10 am
Haven't yet got past the first sentence, but just had to praise its wonderful wordplay:"How do you solve a problem like Sharia?"
Why didn't I ever think of that?
Other Comments by eoinc