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Saturday, February 16, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document A match made on RichardDawkins.net?

by Yorker, Veronique

This is a message I was sent last night from two of our regulars, Yorker and Veronique. They met here on the site, and are now getting married! The following is a message from them. - Josh

lionsAs a species, humankind has come far from its brutish evolutionary origins. We have shown ourselves capable of great works of art, music and literature yet seem pathetically unable to carry out the simple unifying organisation required to ensure our continued survival on this planet. This is our home; the only home we have and as far as we can see, the only home we'll ever have.

We have moved forward at breathtaking speed in the sciences but sadly our emotional development lags far behind; we lack the ability to reach international agreement on even simple matters having a direct bearing upon the future of our species. We allow greed, religion, culture and political doctrine to divide us; we are reduced to the level of the most irrational among us while intellectuals are mired in a morass of useless ego massaging that wilfully ignores the inexorable march on the road to disaster.

As the years roll by it seems increasingly likely that humankind will be a short-lived species, a smear on the Earth's surface that time will slowly eradicate. Science, the best tool we have, cannot help us, abundant food and water will not help us; our plight can be solved only through an unprecedented level of understanding, tolerance and above all, cooperation. Should no change take place, the outlook is bleak indeed. We face an adversarial future that may well result in our extinction, a self-selected extinction.

Some thinking people share this vision of the future and are brought together by the contemplation of it. These pitifully small groups do their best to warn of the danger but are generally ineffective in achieving meaningful change; sometimes the feeling of despair causes them to turn inwards in search of consolation. They turn to the thread that still runs unbroken through the history of humanity. They turn to love.

If one asks philosophers or dispassionate observers, they might possibly say that love is a temporary mental condition that can cause those in love to have feelings of euphoria not supported by reality. That is possible, but it's also true that through times of extreme stress and hardship, lovers find great reserves of strength in each other that would be impossible to muster individually. Empowered by love, they are often able to overcome apparently insurmountable obstacles. This sends a potent message concerning the nature of love; it shows how love persists no matter what; it shows that love is an emotion humans cannot live without.

Love is a dynamic process; we all perceive love in our own way, from the idealistic hormonally-charged love of youth, to the deeply-connected mentally-inspired love of the experienced. Love always feels right and engenders mutual trust. Those in love live fuller and, we would claim, better lives than those not in love. As Veronique aptly puts it, love between older persons is usually a blending, a fitting together of curves of experience and mutual respect. Once forged, such a blending is virtually impenetrable by outside influence. Joining forces in the fight against unreason softens the feeling of despair for the future that impacts on us individually.

Over a period of more than a year, two long-standing followers of the RDF realised that something more than understanding and mutual agreement was happening between them. Being the same age, it became increasingly clear that their remaining lives would be better served by facing the future together rather than struggling on to die alone. They had in short, fallen in love. Some would call it a practical love, born out of mutual respect and perhaps even loneliness, but that description falls a long way short; it was a deep love, deeper than either had ever felt; the indestructible connection had been forged.

Much has been made of the similarity between freethinking atheists and cats, both supposedly being difficult or impossible to herd, but humans are not cats, they can be easily herded if a common cause is seen as more important than individual agendas. We simply must herd; we must convince others to see via the light of reason; we must do it with understanding; conflict is not the way; cooperation has to be the corner stone of any future human endeavour. It will be a long slow process and the grim prospect that it may already be too late, must be faced.

To end on a lighter note, we hope that our fellows on this site may recognise others with whom a strong connection might be made; let them unite and join that special RDF club founded by Veronique and Yorker, who found each other here and discovered the persistence of love.

Veronique & Yorker

Comments 1 - 50 of 86 |

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1. Comment #128149 by Johnny O on February 16, 2008 at 11:07 am

 avatarCongratulations, Veronique and Yorker.

When's the big day?

Other Comments by Johnny O

2. Comment #128151 by babrock on February 16, 2008 at 11:15 am

cool.

Other Comments by babrock

3. Comment #128155 by SharonMcT on February 16, 2008 at 11:23 am

 avatarThis is the best, most inspiring news I've heard today! My best wishes for a long and healthy rest-of-your-lives. I hope you both continue to comment at RDnet as you have contributed so much.

Other Comments by SharonMcT

4. Comment #128157 by SPS on February 16, 2008 at 11:26 am

That's great! I'm happy for you both.

Other Comments by SPS

5. Comment #128158 by 82abhilash on February 16, 2008 at 11:27 am

That was beautifully written. I do not fully agree with everything, but I agree with most of it, and it the important thing is, it was beautifully written, perfect prelude to the joyous occasion that is on its way.

Plus I am highly optimistic for them. RichardDawkins.net has a way of making its regulars more level headed and wholesome the longer they frequent it.

An atheist wedding!! This is going to be great. Maybe Richard Dawkins should marry them. Maybe they can post pictures on flickr. I could go on and on. I am too excited.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

6. Comment #128159 by Quetzalcoatl on February 16, 2008 at 11:28 am

 avatarVeronique, Yorker-

my heartiest congratulations to the both of you. I hope that your time together is filled by joy, good health, and intelligent conversation befitting the contributions that you have both made on this site.

Again, congratulations, and best wishes for your future together.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

7. Comment #128161 by babrock on February 16, 2008 at 11:31 am

A couple more things come to mind. 1. He talked of love as tho it is a conceit. Decades ago, late adolesence, early adulthood iwas while not depresed seriosly, not as happy as I thought I could be some how I made a leap of faith that I would be happy and somehow it worked to a surprising extent. If that conceit worked for me to that extent,then how much more should t idea that going thru life w/ someone that loves you and that you can love also work.

Other Comments by babrock

8. Comment #128163 by babrock on February 16, 2008 at 11:36 am

Goodness, that was an embaresing wasre of verbage on my part, that I wish I could take back. I think I will skip t 2.

Other Comments by babrock

9. Comment #128169 by Justin Hopkins on February 16, 2008 at 11:58 am

 avatarCongratulations!

@babrock

Can't you delete your comment?

Other Comments by Justin Hopkins

10. Comment #128172 by GBile on February 16, 2008 at 12:04 pm

This is a happy announcement. Veronique and Yorker, congratulations.

Why don't we all meet somewhere on our planet to celebrate. Tristan da Cunha, Jipsingboermussel, Bangan si api api ? Name the place.

By the way, although earth may be our only home, I expect our great- great grandchildren to inhabit other parts of our solar system. Mars or lots of interesting moons available I think.

Other Comments by GBile

11. Comment #128173 by The Energist on February 16, 2008 at 12:07 pm

 avatarI would like to give Veronique and Yorker my congratulations, and wish them the very best for a future together.
I find this message somewhat pessimistic about the future of humanity, although perhaps I should be an optimist and call pessimism realism.
I'll also take this splendid opportunity to be sentimental and say that although I am more of a lurker than an active participator, this website and its denizens are very important to me if only because of our shared aspiration to rationality and a more enlightened world.

Other Comments by The Energist

12. Comment #128177 by Corylus on February 16, 2008 at 12:19 pm

 avatarWell, well. You sneaky pair.

While you can't herd cats it does appear you get them hitched! (As shown by the lovely picture above).

I am generally quite a reserved type, but I can't help sending a big hug and kiss to the pair of you.

Hazel.

Other Comments by Corylus

13. Comment #128179 by Monosilabbiq on February 16, 2008 at 12:21 pm

Wow !

Other Comments by Monosilabbiq

14. Comment #128193 by decius on February 16, 2008 at 1:01 pm

 avatarCongratulations, well done. I wish you a great life together.

Other Comments by decius

15. Comment #128195 by Neiman on February 16, 2008 at 1:05 pm

I had to create an account just to say congrats. Nice to see a couple of atheists can find each other in this world and see a bit of happiness.

Other Comments by Neiman

16. Comment #128199 by Backslidden on February 16, 2008 at 1:22 pm

 avatarVery nicely written and congratulations!

I couldn't jump on board with all of what was said but it does frustrate me extensively that many people have preferred ignorance over advancing our survival. It's hard to imagine how far we could go and what great feats we would accomplish under a global unity.

I think disposing of religious and supernatural faith would be the biggest unifying step forward, but people have to choose it. Since I've become atheist, I wish I could go back and fix all the damage faith did and I am so sorry to the world for being a part of the worst problem.

Other Comments by Backslidden

17. Comment #128202 by troyreynolds86 on February 16, 2008 at 1:33 pm

Yorker and Veronique,

Congratulations on finding the grandest treasure of love. My best wishes on all of your years together being filled with happiness. Way to go.

Other Comments by troyreynolds86

18. Comment #128203 by steveroot on February 16, 2008 at 1:34 pm

 avatarSee if Dr. Dawkins can preside. "We are gathered here in the sight of Dog and this forum..."

Seriously, best wishes! I hope you have many happy years together.

Steve ("Five") Weeks, DDS

Other Comments by steveroot

19. Comment #128204 by Diacanu on February 16, 2008 at 1:44 pm

 avatarHooray!!!!!!

*Boings around like Tigger*

Other Comments by Diacanu

20. Comment #128208 by Paradigm on February 16, 2008 at 2:07 pm

I generally don't log in much here any more, but I just want to say congratulations to both of you.

All the best, and I hope you have many, many happy years together.

Other Comments by Paradigm

21. Comment #128214 by BaronOchs on February 16, 2008 at 2:39 pm

 avatarCongratulations V and Yorker!

Other Comments by BaronOchs

22. Comment #128215 by bluebird on February 16, 2008 at 2:43 pm

 avatarTillykke med bryllupet, Veronique & Yorker.
(Congratulations!)

*************

Love the lion/lioness touch, it's purrrrfect.

Other Comments by bluebird

23. Comment #128218 by MaxD on February 16, 2008 at 2:55 pm

 avatarCongratulations!
I tried to get my wife to go along with having the Emperial March (Darth Vader's tune) be our walk down the ailse music, I don't want to make any unwanted suggestions but....

Other Comments by MaxD

24. Comment #128220 by Peacebeuponme on February 16, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Yorker, Veronique

Many congratulations to you both. I made a throw-away remark about a "Dawkins Dating Agency" after some banter on a thread a while back. It seems like there's some truth in that now!

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

25. Comment #128227 by babrock on February 16, 2008 at 3:12 pm

To Justin,I just got this thing last Oct. or so, so it is all I can do to throw these words out in t disorganized manner that I manage. Deleting things along w/ proper spelling, gramer, or proofreading is as yet beyond me. Here tho is the other idea I had. This one I hope is worth t ones and zeros it will cost. Generaly what draws couples together is t females physical atractivnes, and often w/ t male how well off he is. For a couple to couple based on mutualy held ideas, such as we have here, namely rationalism, is to my mind an incomparably better foundation to base one future relationship on than most others have. I imagine they will have a good life together.

Other Comments by babrock

26. Comment #128234 by A.Lex on February 16, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Congratulations Veronique & Yorker! Will you label your offspring as "atheist children" :>)

Other Comments by A.Lex

27. Comment #128239 by kev_s on February 16, 2008 at 3:32 pm

Congratulations! Much the best news I've read on the net this weekend!

Other Comments by kev_s

28. Comment #128241 by mdowe on February 16, 2008 at 3:33 pm

 avatarWell, I hadn't thought of this forum as a place with potential for chatting up women -- fortunately Yorker was more perceptive! My sincerest congratulations and best wishes to both of you.

Other Comments by mdowe

29. Comment #128246 by Tea Q on February 16, 2008 at 3:42 pm

Yipee!!!

Other Comments by Tea Q

30. Comment #128247 by Lorraine on February 16, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Congratulations V&Y. Very appropriate timing so close to St.Valentine's day. Well done.
Suggestion that Richard Dawkins perform the ceremony reminds me of a scene in 'Third Rock from the Sun"
Marriage Celebrant: "Dearly beloved we are gathered here in the sight of god....."
Dick, with curiosity, cranes his neck surveying the surrounding congregation: "Which one is god?"

Cheers and best wishes.

Other Comments by Lorraine

31. Comment #128250 by BillySands on February 16, 2008 at 3:53 pm

 avatarCongratulations guys.

You know, I know a minister not that far from Glenrothes. His name is an anagram of "Sodden Vibrator" or "Rev bad nits odor"

Other Comments by BillySands

32. Comment #128264 by HourglassMemory on February 16, 2008 at 4:27 pm

Who would have wondered!!!
Congratulations and the happiness to you both.
Enojy it while it lasts.

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

33. Comment #128275 by kaiserkriss on February 16, 2008 at 4:44 pm

 avatarCongrats to both of you!! I honestly didn't know this site was a clandestine dating service.

Seriously though enjoy each other's company, and may you have many health days in the future educating the masses. jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

34. Comment #128286 by Yorker on February 16, 2008 at 5:00 pm

 avatarMany thanks to all for your good wishes towards Veronique and myself.

This so far short year has been the best and worst in my life, I am about to lose my daughter who is in the final stages of small cell ovarian cancer, the tremendous support of my dear Veronique has given me the strength to face this disaster with a courage I would have found impossible to muster alone. It made me realise the value of love.

Best regards

Yorker.

Other Comments by Yorker

35. Comment #128289 by Diacanu on February 16, 2008 at 5:13 pm

 avatarOh, man, that's terrible.
Fucking cancer!
Lost a couple grandparents to it two christmases in a row.
Condolances, man. :(
Stay strong.
Hug Veronique tight.
:)

Other Comments by Diacanu

36. Comment #128293 by Geoff on February 16, 2008 at 5:19 pm

 avatarLive long and prosper, both of you! Condolences and congratulations.

Other Comments by Geoff

37. Comment #128298 by tieInterceptor on February 16, 2008 at 5:45 pm

 avatarcongrats!

Other Comments by tieInterceptor

38. Comment #128299 by Slyer on February 16, 2008 at 5:55 pm

 avatarCongrats guys!

Other Comments by Slyer

39. Comment #128309 by Bobington on February 16, 2008 at 6:07 pm

Get breeding. We need atheist babies.

Other Comments by Bobington

40. Comment #128342 by Veronique on February 16, 2008 at 7:00 pm

 avatarThank you all for being supportive:-).

A bit of a rough road ahead, but we are both strong people and know what we want to do with our lives.

So thank you, you make us glad that we posted this article on the site. And thanks to Josh for putting it up.

We'll be back:-)

Cheers
V

Other Comments by Veronique

41. Comment #128350 by sarah95 on February 16, 2008 at 7:36 pm

 avatarCongratulations and condolences. Facing cancer and species survival are not easy, but I heartily agree that love for each other makes us stronger in the fight.

And add my name to the list of people who would love to see Richard Dawkins marry you. I know that may not be your thing, but just give it a thought...;)

Other Comments by sarah95

42. Comment #128351 by sarah95 on February 16, 2008 at 7:37 pm

 avatarum, when I said "marry you", I meant "marry you two", as in officiating at your wedding ceremony. I hope that was clear...

Other Comments by sarah95

43. Comment #128358 by Downunder on February 16, 2008 at 8:20 pm

 avatarCongrats to you both. How romantic! Wishing you all the happiness of the young at heart.

Other Comments by Downunder

44. Comment #128369 by EEguy on February 16, 2008 at 9:08 pm

 avatarCongratulations to the both of you! I have enjoyed reading your comments for some time now and I wish you both happiness and courage.

Other Comments by EEguy

45. Comment #128395 by eyz1005 on February 16, 2008 at 10:54 pm

 avatarFirst atheists, then Gays, who's next? JK, congrats!

Other Comments by eyz1005

46. Comment #128397 by PJG on February 16, 2008 at 11:22 pm

 avatarCongratulations!

Wishing you a wonderful life together.

Other Comments by PJG

47. Comment #128423 by jaf on February 17, 2008 at 1:33 am

The Energist wrote-
I find this message somewhat pessimistic about the future of humanity, although perhaps I should be an optimist and call pessimism realism.


At first glance, perhaps, but then it gives you an 'out', which find very optimistic. I'm going to link to it from my blog, as I find it inspiring.

jaf
www.anax-andron.com/thunderbox

Other Comments by jaf

48. Comment #128428 by Titus on February 17, 2008 at 1:56 am

I have to confess to being a hopeless romantic, so this news has furnished me with a soppy grin.
My heartfelt congratulations to you both and my best wishes for your future together.

Chas x

Other Comments by Titus

49. Comment #128430 by Clappers on February 17, 2008 at 2:10 am

"This so far short year has been the best and worst in my life, I am about to lose my daughter who is in the final stages of small cell ovarian cancer, the tremendous support of my dear Veronique has given me the strength to face this disaster with a courage I would have found impossible to muster alone. It made me realise the value of love."

Yorker, to be able to write the paragraph above shows tremendous courage in a number of ways.

Acceptance of the fact that your daughter is going to die is so grown up, I cannot imagine being able to accept it, but you show me that it is possible. Perhaps you gained strength from that gentleman who's son died and "Were all going to Die..........." was read at his funeral.

I admire your bravery

Other Comments by Clappers

50. Comment #128434 by The Energist on February 17, 2008 at 2:20 am

 avatarJaf,

I agree that the conclusion is optimistic, but this is found more in individuals finding strength in their love of one another in order to face what is portrayed as the almost inevitable destruction of our civilization. Although sometimes difficult, I try to have confidence in our species' ingenuity and adaptability to deal with the crises of our times. Thinking like this gives us the resolve to do what we must in order to continue as a species. Just my point of view, anyway...

Also, let's not start talking about atheist children. Objectively, this is no better than calling a child a catholic or a marxist.

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