The Search for Truth, God and Braver Scientists in 'Expelled'"What we're really asking for is freedom of speech, and allowing science, and students, people in applied or theoretical research to have the freedom to go where they need to go and as the questions."
Paul Lauer: You mentioned that Darwinism appears to be lacking on certain fronts. From your research, and your travels, and interviews with many different scientists, what are some of the areas that scientists are, perhaps, increasingly saying are problematic with the theory of, Darwin's Theory of Evolution?
Ben Stein:Well, just a couple of them, I've already hit one is: Where did life come from? Second one is: How did the cell get so complex? Third one, which I think is overwhelming, and just sort of blows the whole theory of Random Mutation out of the water, is, at least, let me say, raises big questions, that is. Assuming it all did happen by Random Mutation and Natural Selection, where did the laws of gravity come from. Where did the laws of thermodynamics come from? Where did the laws of motion and, of heat come from? Where, I guess that's the same as thermodynamics. Where did all these laws, that make it possible for the universe to function, where did they all come from? Why isn't all just chaos and everything collapsing in on itself and killing everything? I think that`s where the universe works. Who created these perfect laws, that keeps the planet in motion, keeps the blood pumping through our bodies? So, I think, all these are giant questions that need answers.
Paul Lauer: Sure. Walt, there was some out there who wanted to speak on this issue but they were afraid to show their identity. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Walt Ruloff: Yeah, we interviewed many, many, many scientists, who, first of all, we talked to hundreds and hundreds of scientists who wouldn't even talk - wouldn't even go on camera, even if we assured them that we were going to black them out. So, the ones that finally did, there were dozens of scientists that we were able to do that with. The reason why they need to do that is because if they stray from the current orthodoxy, if they stray from a Darwinian position, and you'll see this in the movie, these people have been called in to their superiors' office and have lost their jobs, or have been denied tenure, or have been so discredited by the powers that be, that their future, and their hopes and dreams of being a scientist have been squashed, and so, this is a real problem, as we've discussed.
The National Academy of Sciences recently issued a report saying that "The rapid advances now being made in the life sciences and in medicine rest on principles derived from an understanding of evolution." The report cites successes in combating the SARS virus, development of drought and pest resistant crops, and the creation of enzymes to make corn-based ethanol, as recent developments to which evolutionary theory was indispensable. If evolution inspires as much evil as your film argues that it does, should we refuse to use these technologies until they can be replicated by an intelligent-design-based research program?
2. Comment #128180 by Nails on February 16, 2008 at 12:22 pm
3. Comment #128181 by Glen Davidson on February 16, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Yes, they also censor their blog. I'm linking below to an instance I documented, where someone called "javascript" had maligned what I had written with out-of-context quotemines and malicious libel, and I was not allowed to demonstrate how javascript was dishonest:4. Comment #128184 by Elles on February 16, 2008 at 12:30 pm
5. Comment #128185 by Nails on February 16, 2008 at 12:31 pm
6. Comment #128189 by SPS on February 16, 2008 at 12:40 pm
How do you get answers? By searching for them.7. Comment #128192 by righton on February 16, 2008 at 12:56 pm
This Expelled movie might turn out to be a very good thing.8. Comment #128194 by Double Bass Atheist on February 16, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Stein is getting his Ferris confused with his Bueller
But the real problem with ID is that they claim conspiracy and get automatic support from the gullible and ignorant majority.
9. Comment #128196 by Adam Morrison on February 16, 2008 at 1:07 pm
10. Comment #128197 by Rational_G on February 16, 2008 at 1:07 pm
11. Comment #128200 by umkomasia on February 16, 2008 at 1:24 pm
What does it say about our culture that a minor B-list celebrity thinks he can challenge the modern science of evolution, and that at least some fools think enough of his views to make a movie out of it? I'm less concerned about Ben Stein being a "pompous ignorant fool" as #128197 points out, than I am in the fact that he seems to have a certain authority with many people.12. Comment #128201 by Neiman on February 16, 2008 at 1:32 pm
One thing to keep in mind is that any group with little to no evidence to stand on will attempt to enlist "celebrities" to further their cause; the fact that ID/creationists can only get someone like Stein, who barely rates as B-List these days, to pimp their message says a lot about how desperate they have become.13. Comment #128211 by Nails on February 16, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I've recently found myself in an email debate with a young faith head. Just like Ben Stein, he jumps between evolution, cosmology, abiogenesis, and physics; all while attacking "evolution". Of course, he does not understanding the first thing about ANY of these subjects, or even their names! This is typical of the religious, evolution-denying mind. Their understanding of science is so poor that they actually think all these diverse subjects are all evolutionary biology.
The claims that evolution has been "thoroughly discredited" and that "most scientists don't believe in evolution any more. They're just afraid to say so" have come up in our debate. While hearing this is very typical in any debate with the pious, wait until he sees this movie!
It's only going to confirm the delusion of an already misinformed individual, and the general populous as well.
We have our work cut out for us people!
14. Comment #128216 by wonderer* on February 16, 2008 at 2:49 pm
4. Comment #128184 by Elles on February 16, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I started cackling violently at the Ben Stein quote. I might go see this film just for comic relief.
15. Comment #128219 by Noodly on February 16, 2008 at 2:55 pm
16. Comment #128223 by jbacsa on February 16, 2008 at 3:07 pm
The comment by user Nails about so called faith-heads being ingnorant of science can be reversed, the comments by atheists on this website demonstrates ignorance of religious experience which most humans on this planet seem to share and be aware. It also seems to me that a notable exception are a wealthy, privileged minority who have no use for God.17. Comment #128224 by Partisan on February 16, 2008 at 3:08 pm
18. Comment #128233 by Mark Smith on February 16, 2008 at 3:28 pm
jbacsaThe comment by user Nails about so called faith-heads being ingnorant of science can be reversed, the comments by atheists on this website demonstrates ignorance of religious experience which most humans on this planet seem to share and be aware.
19. Comment #128244 by Mark Smith on February 16, 2008 at 3:37 pm
jbacsaIt also seems to me that a notable exception are a wealthy, privileged minority who have no use for God.
20. Comment #128256 by Sally Luxmoore on February 16, 2008 at 4:08 pm
21. Comment #128279 by alan baylis on February 16, 2008 at 4:53 pm
The National Academy of Sciences recently issued a report saying that "The rapid advances now being made in the life sciences and in medicine rest on principles derived from an understanding of evolution." The report cites successes in combating the SARS virus, development of drought and pest resistant crops, and the creation of enzymes to make corn-based ethanol, as recent developments to which evolutionary theory was indispensable22. Comment #128297 by quill on February 16, 2008 at 5:33 pm
23. Comment #128381 by Teratornis on February 16, 2008 at 10:08 pm
It seems that the huge corporations have a large vested interest in REAL evolutionary science being taught in schools and universities in the USA. Therefore, why don’t they use their political clout and some of their vast resources in countering all this ID nonsense.
24. Comment #128399 by Skep on February 16, 2008 at 11:38 pm
The Fine Tuning Argument? Oh, please. Will Professor Stein now argue that noses were made to have spectacles and thus we have spectacles? Voltaire's Candide eviscerated the fine tuning argument in 1759.Master Pangloss taught the metaphysico-theologo-cosmolonigology. He could prove to admiration that there is no effect without a cause; and, that in this best of all possible worlds, the Baron's castle was the most magnificent of all castles, and My Lady the best of all possible baronesses.
"It is demonstrable," said he, "that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end. Observe, for instance, the nose is formed for spectacles, therefore we wear spectacles. The legs are visibly designed for stockings, accordingly we wear stockings. Stones were made to be hewn and to construct castles, therefore My Lord has a magnificent castle; for the greatest baron in the province ought to be the best lodged. Swine were intended to be eaten, therefore we eat pork all the year round: and they, who assert that everything is right, do not express themselves correctly; they should say that everything is best."
25. Comment #128433 by Stafford Gordon on February 17, 2008 at 2:16 am
"How did the cell get so complex?" This is a question which could only be posed by someone who has not read Darwin; or, if they have done so have not understood the central idea from which all else has since flowed.26. Comment #128435 by Titus on February 17, 2008 at 2:21 am
Ok then, if no-one else is going to do it, it'll have to be me.27. Comment #128451 by the great teapot on February 17, 2008 at 3:30 am
What would Intelligent design research exactly consist of.28. Comment #128466 by rod-the-farmer on February 17, 2008 at 4:21 am
a notable exception are a wealthy, privileged minority who have no use for God.
29. Comment #128470 by Steve Zara on February 17, 2008 at 4:32 am
The comment by user Nails about so called faith-heads being ingnorant of science can be reversed, the comments by atheists on this website demonstrates ignorance of religious experience which most humans on this planet seem to share and be aware.
30. Comment #128471 by rod-the-farmer on February 17, 2008 at 4:34 am
31. Comment #128491 by Geoff on February 17, 2008 at 7:13 am
32. Comment #128493 by Steve Zara on February 17, 2008 at 7:27 am
33. Comment #128574 by D'Arcy on February 17, 2008 at 12:13 pm
34. Comment #128576 by Geoff on February 17, 2008 at 12:16 pm
proof reasing
35. Comment #128577 by Steve Zara on February 17, 2008 at 12:16 pm
36. Comment #128617 by Duff on February 17, 2008 at 12:54 pm
This is simply another battle between science and religion. Please remind me if science has ever lost one of these battles from Prothagoras to Ptolemy; from Galileo to Newton to Einstein. We should all encourage this kind of a fight because the religionists are, in the end, going to look stupid.37. Comment #128662 by Skep on February 17, 2008 at 2:16 pm
@ Duff38. Comment #128744 by dlitt on February 17, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Comment #128223 by jbacsa on February 16, 2008 at 3:07 pmIt is unfortunate that the 'privileged minority' can better afford the 'higher education' that gives them a better understanding of science and the requirement of some evidence to support a theory. It isn't about not having a "use for God," it is about a lack of evidence to support a God hypothesis or more bluntly, not having a use for nonsense.
[edit] It also seems to me that a notable exception are a wealthy, privileged minority who have no use for God.
39. Comment #128816 by Tyler Durden on February 18, 2008 at 2:47 am
science has already lost the battle in the US.Skep, no need to be so pessimistic, people's personal opinions about god does not negate the work of science. Science won in the Dover trial, and science will win again should it ever go to the courts because it has evidence and rationality on its side!
40. Comment #128909 by jackster on February 18, 2008 at 9:31 am
comment#128223 by jbacsa,41. Comment #129425 by Azven on February 19, 2008 at 5:46 am
42. Comment #129445 by MuNky82 on February 19, 2008 at 6:29 am
It also seems to me that a notable exception are a wealthy, privileged minority who have no use for God.
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1. Comment #128176 by John Done on February 16, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Intelligent Design cannot have any applications, as it makes no predictions on anything. It merely nullifies the applications of evolutionary theory and says "the foundation of the universe a being unlike anything conceivable" which effectively nullifies all science and rationality. No basis of reality could be found in such a world. You'd just have to not think about it and essentially let the world around you run as it would without making any sense of it or interacting with it. And that's madness.Ben Stein really hasn't a clue what he's talking about, and he doesn't seem to much care. All of this secrecy will only cement his popularity amingst the hardcore creationist crowd, and exclusive group which can only expand with the children it indoctrinates. The film will undoubtedly alienate everyone else willing to look at the evidence, and inspire suspicion in those not yet analyzing their own worldviews rationally. No converts, no groundbreaking revelations, just conflict and humiliation.
This film should not be taken seriously. However, its adherents should, as that's the only way to adequately address the issues that stimulate these conflicts between heartfelt beliefs and fact-finding rationality.
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