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Church is paying a high price for its celibacy rule
by Independent IE
Thanks to for the link.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/church-is-paying-a-high-price-for-its-celibacy-rule-1297042.html
Church is paying a high price for its celibacy rule
By John Cooney
The appointment of a former Catholic priest as the Anglican Dean of Dublin's Christ Church cathedral is an example how the obligatory rule of celibacy of the Roman priesthood is losing clergy to the more liberal Church of Ireland.
After his marriage to his wife Celia, and his resignation as a priest of the Catholic diocese of Cork and Ross, Dean Dermot Dunne has been ministering as an Anglican rector in the diocese of Ferns, Remarkably, Dean Dunne discovered that three of his 11 colleagues had also left the ranks of the Catholic clergy.
A number of nuns and Catholic laity have also found a spiritual haven in becoming members of the Church of Ireland.
This relatively small but significant switch in denominational allegiance from the tight discipline and moral rules of Roman Catholicism to a freer ethos of respect for individual conscience allowed in the more broad Church of Ireland is worthy of greater attention than it has so far drawn in the national media.
Dean Dunne's rapid rise within his adopted ecclesial community in these more ecumenical times comes only days after new figures revealed the extent of the drop in clergy numbers in the Irish Catholic Church that is now reaching catastrophic proportions.
Last year 160 priests died while only nine men were ordained, and 228 nuns passed away with only two newcomers taking religious vows.
Under current trends of ageing clerics and few recruits, the number of priests will halve from 4,752 to 1,500 over the next two decades. Convents could become an antiquarian rarity.
By any standard, this is a manpower crisis. It is recognised as such by the 'Irish Catholic' newspaper, traditionally regarded as a conservative voice, but which has called for the convening of a National Synod of Bishops, priests and laity to confront the emergency.
Dioceses throughout the country have become so short of priests that many parishes are priestless, and the frequency of Masses has been drastically reduced.
Opinion polls have shown there is popular demand for ending the rule of obligatory celibacy, but so far such appeals have been ignored by the church establishment in Ireland, which will not dare to challenge Pope Benedict's unwillingness to change this rule dating from the 12th century.
Vatican policy since the early 1960s has been opposed to the revision of the celibacy obligation. Even the reform-minded Pope John XXIII did not allow the matter to be discussed at the Second Vatican Council, 1962-5.
His successor, Pope Paul VI, grappled with a massive exodus of the best and the brightest from the priesthood who left to get married. Paul described them as traitors.
An even more hard line was taken by Pope John Paul II, who made it exceedingly difficult for priests to become laicised. The present Pope, Benedict XVI, is also taking a firm 'no change' line.
Yet, an exception has been made by Rome to this rule through its admission to the Catholic priesthood of married men who have converted from the Anglican Communion.The Orthodox and Easter Rite Churches allow its priests to marry before ordination.
While hoping for an upturn in vocations, the Irish Catholic Church has won Vatican approval for the training of married male deacons over five years, the diaconate is an ordained ministry which traces its origins back to the time of the apostles.
There will be a preliminary year before a man is accepted as a candidate. The formation programme will take three years (part time). It involves the serious study of theology and philosophy, as well as pastoral, spiritual and human formation.
The minimum age for admission is 25 years for a celibate candidate, and 35 years for a married candidate.
The maximum age is 60 years. While married men may be ordained, deacons who are widowed do not normally remarry.
To ensure that the diaconate does not conflict with the responsibilities of marriage, a married man may only be accepted as a candidate for diaconate if he has the formal approval of his wife.
Deacons who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders will not normally wear clerical dress, but will be allowed to wear vestments when officiating at services.
Candidates must be men who have a good knowledge of the Gospel, a well-established spiritual life, and a proven willingness to serve others, even at some personal cost.
While the Church authorities insist that deacons will not be substitute priests, there are fears that they will be viewed as such, and that the numbers entering the diaconate will not resolve the need for priests, whether married males or women, in the Irish Church.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/church-is-paying-a-high-price-for-its-celibacy-rule-1297042.html
Church is paying a high price for its celibacy rule
By John Cooney
The appointment of a former Catholic priest as the Anglican Dean of Dublin's Christ Church cathedral is an example how the obligatory rule of celibacy of the Roman priesthood is losing clergy to the more liberal Church of Ireland.
After his marriage to his wife Celia, and his resignation as a priest of the Catholic diocese of Cork and Ross, Dean Dermot Dunne has been ministering as an Anglican rector in the diocese of Ferns, Remarkably, Dean Dunne discovered that three of his 11 colleagues had also left the ranks of the Catholic clergy.
A number of nuns and Catholic laity have also found a spiritual haven in becoming members of the Church of Ireland.
This relatively small but significant switch in denominational allegiance from the tight discipline and moral rules of Roman Catholicism to a freer ethos of respect for individual conscience allowed in the more broad Church of Ireland is worthy of greater attention than it has so far drawn in the national media.
Dean Dunne's rapid rise within his adopted ecclesial community in these more ecumenical times comes only days after new figures revealed the extent of the drop in clergy numbers in the Irish Catholic Church that is now reaching catastrophic proportions.
Last year 160 priests died while only nine men were ordained, and 228 nuns passed away with only two newcomers taking religious vows.
Under current trends of ageing clerics and few recruits, the number of priests will halve from 4,752 to 1,500 over the next two decades. Convents could become an antiquarian rarity.
By any standard, this is a manpower crisis. It is recognised as such by the 'Irish Catholic' newspaper, traditionally regarded as a conservative voice, but which has called for the convening of a National Synod of Bishops, priests and laity to confront the emergency.
Dioceses throughout the country have become so short of priests that many parishes are priestless, and the frequency of Masses has been drastically reduced.
Opinion polls have shown there is popular demand for ending the rule of obligatory celibacy, but so far such appeals have been ignored by the church establishment in Ireland, which will not dare to challenge Pope Benedict's unwillingness to change this rule dating from the 12th century.
Vatican policy since the early 1960s has been opposed to the revision of the celibacy obligation. Even the reform-minded Pope John XXIII did not allow the matter to be discussed at the Second Vatican Council, 1962-5.
His successor, Pope Paul VI, grappled with a massive exodus of the best and the brightest from the priesthood who left to get married. Paul described them as traitors.
An even more hard line was taken by Pope John Paul II, who made it exceedingly difficult for priests to become laicised. The present Pope, Benedict XVI, is also taking a firm 'no change' line.
Yet, an exception has been made by Rome to this rule through its admission to the Catholic priesthood of married men who have converted from the Anglican Communion.The Orthodox and Easter Rite Churches allow its priests to marry before ordination.
While hoping for an upturn in vocations, the Irish Catholic Church has won Vatican approval for the training of married male deacons over five years, the diaconate is an ordained ministry which traces its origins back to the time of the apostles.
There will be a preliminary year before a man is accepted as a candidate. The formation programme will take three years (part time). It involves the serious study of theology and philosophy, as well as pastoral, spiritual and human formation.
The minimum age for admission is 25 years for a celibate candidate, and 35 years for a married candidate.
The maximum age is 60 years. While married men may be ordained, deacons who are widowed do not normally remarry.
To ensure that the diaconate does not conflict with the responsibilities of marriage, a married man may only be accepted as a candidate for diaconate if he has the formal approval of his wife.
Deacons who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders will not normally wear clerical dress, but will be allowed to wear vestments when officiating at services.
Candidates must be men who have a good knowledge of the Gospel, a well-established spiritual life, and a proven willingness to serve others, even at some personal cost.
While the Church authorities insist that deacons will not be substitute priests, there are fears that they will be viewed as such, and that the numbers entering the diaconate will not resolve the need for priests, whether married males or women, in the Irish Church.
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Posted: Monday, February 25, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 76 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #132742 by Masrock on February 25, 2008 at 7:12 am
Quoting from Hitchens and Fry.It's bollocks from beginning to end.
Maybe not the exact quote, but you get the gist.
Masrock
Other Comments by Masrock
3. Comment #132749 by irate_atheist on February 25, 2008 at 7:19 am
...new figures revealed the extent of the drop in clergy numbers in the Irish Catholic Church that is now reachimng catastrophic proportions.My heart bleeds for them.[/sarcasm]
Other Comments by irate_atheist
4. Comment #132752 by hungarianelephant on February 25, 2008 at 7:21 am
Four priests defect to the Church of Ireland ... that's sure to mean much better ministry for the remaining 17 people in the congregation. Other Comments by hungarianelephant
5. Comment #132753 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:21 am
Good news for the future choirboys. Other Comments by Geoff
6. Comment #132757 by Quetzalcoatl on February 25, 2008 at 7:25 am
The Catholic Church is destroying itself (at least in Ireland). Excellent. Now we militant atheists can turn our attentions elsewhere. Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
7. Comment #132759 by hungarianelephant on February 25, 2008 at 7:27 am
Slightly more seriously, it appears to me that the whole celibacy thing is a big red herring.Irish boys used to be pushed into the priesthood because of the status it brought to the family. Now that the RC church has squandered its status, you'd only become a priest if you have some kind of call to ministry and you don't mind people thinking that you're a bit odd. Father Dougal Maguire, of irate_atheist's avatar fame, is a recogisable figure, but doesn't fit any more.
Not even the religious in Ireland are shedding many tears for the demise of the church. In fact, putting the boot in is something of a national pasttime. It would almost make me feel sorry for it. Almost.
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
8. Comment #132764 by irate_atheist on February 25, 2008 at 7:33 am
6. Comment #132757 by Quetzalcoatl -Now we militant atheists can turn our attentions elsewhere.No, fuckit, kick them while they're down. And keep kicking so that they never get up again.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
9. Comment #132766 by Tyler Durden on February 25, 2008 at 7:33 am
Bishop: So, Father. Do you ever have any doubts about the religious life? Is your faith ever tested? Anything you would be worried about? Any doubts you've been having about any aspects of belief? Anything like that?
Father Dougal: Well, you know the way God made us all, right? And he's looking down at us from heaven and everything?
Bishop: Uh-huh.
[nods]
Father Dougal: And then his son came down and saved everyone and all that?
Bishop: Yes.
Father Dougal: And when we die we're all going to go to heaven?
Bishop: Yes. What about it?
Father Dougal: Well, that's the bit I have trouble with.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111958/quotes
Classic!
Other Comments by Tyler Durden
10. Comment #132768 by irate_atheist on February 25, 2008 at 7:35 am
9. Comment #132766 by Tyler Durden -
We're all going to heaven lads, way-hey!
Other Comments by irate_atheist
11. Comment #132771 by Vaal on February 25, 2008 at 7:42 am
"Feck", "Girls", "Drink". Other Comments by Vaal
12. Comment #132772 by Gymnopedie on February 25, 2008 at 7:43 am
I wonder what precise aspect of being a Catholic priest drives them to rape children. I mean, shit, talk about cognitive dissonance. Or maybe they think Jesus would approve, who knows.Oh wait, mortals are prone to evil and sin, that's it. Silly me.
Other Comments by Gymnopedie
13. Comment #132773 by al-rawandi on February 25, 2008 at 7:44 am
No sex. Yes.... where do I sign. Other Comments by al-rawandi
14. Comment #132778 by Steve Zara on February 25, 2008 at 7:47 am
My understanding of why celibacy was introduced was to prevent wives from inheriting part of the property and wealth of the catholic church.Anyone know if this is true?
Other Comments by Steve Zara
15. Comment #132781 by hungarianelephant on February 25, 2008 at 7:48 am
Gymnopedie - I wonder what precise aspect of being a Catholic priest drives them to rape children.
According to the Ferns enquiry, a number of paedophiles were attracted to the priesthood precisely because of the free and trusted access to children. Pretty disturbing stuff.
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
16. Comment #132785 by mdowe on February 25, 2008 at 7:54 am
This seems like an overdue trend, but it is raises the question of why now? The celibacy rule certainly hasn't stopped enrollment for last 700 years.I can't believe that *reason* could suddenly be having any influence on the Catholic mind, so I can only propose that ubiquitous net-porn has given them a generation that is just too horny to give the priesthood a second thought.
Other Comments by mdowe
17. Comment #132786 by emmet on February 25, 2008 at 7:54 am
The (Roman Catholic) Church in Ireland lost whatever respect they might have had when their facilitation of child rapists amongst the clergy became public knowledge. That they shirked even the civil liability for these crimes, with a disgusting immunity deal with the State, which made the Irish tax-payer financially liable for the rape of children perpetrated by priests, invited the opprobrium of every person with a shred of integrity on both the Church and the corrupt scumbag politicians, still in power, who brokered the deal.Shame on the whole damn lot of them. I wish there was a hell for them to burn in.
Other Comments by emmet
18. Comment #132791 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:59 am
Steve:http://www.libchrist.com/bible/catholiccelibacy.html
(a christian site, BTW)
Other Comments by Geoff
19. Comment #132792 by al-rawandi on February 25, 2008 at 8:01 am
Steve,
I am not sure of the cause. But it was with Council of Nicea that celibacy was initiated (325 CE I believe).
There was the celibate aspect of Christ's life (which I would dispute, but that is another topic).
For the first centuries priests married. However the renunciation of worldly goods and practices became the mark of the devout, so these were encourage. This is due to the aesthetic nature of Christ.
Priests do no inherit Church property, it is perpetually controlled by the all male clergy, their wives never control it (if they had wives).
Celibacy, I believe, has some roots in the denial of status to women. If a clergyman was married his wife would be able to influence him, if he is celibate he may more effectively maintain sexist and discriminatory practices.
So in short:
Christ was celibate
Renounce worldly pleasures
Limit the role of women.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
20. Comment #132793 by Rationalist1 on February 25, 2008 at 8:01 am
In my opinion one of the main reasons the Catholic church enforces their celibacy rule is money. If they were to allow married priests, the number of clergy would easily double and they'd have to pay them a living wage, similar to what other denominations do. Instead they work for a fraction of what other denomination's clergy do and they can use the money saved to pay off the child abuse lawsuits.Other Comments by Rationalist1
21. Comment #132796 by hungarianelephant on February 25, 2008 at 8:02 am
emmet - So we'll put that down as "No I won't be voting for the Soldiers of Bribery next time, thank you."That's two of us. Anyone else?
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
22. Comment #132798 by quill on February 25, 2008 at 8:04 am
Plus, this Pope's hard-line tactics seem to be imploding the Vatican. Any thoughts?Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking, voting in a former Hitler Youth. But then, you could say the same thing about their continued attempts to protect child molesters from the law. The Catholic Church seems to be its own worst enemy these days.
Other Comments by quill
23. Comment #132800 by black wolf on February 25, 2008 at 8:05 am
As recently as last week, a German Catholic archbishop criticized celibacy as outdated and scripturally unnecessary. So far, I haven't read of any call from Rome to retract this statement. Other Comments by black wolf
24. Comment #132802 by Tyler Durden on February 25, 2008 at 8:07 am
hungarianelephant,
I stopped voting for anyone on this island a long, long time ago. When I did vote, I would usually give it to the Green Party (just so I wasn't spoiling my vote), now look at them!!
Also, I went to a Christian Brothers high-school in North Dublin, this has since closed due to lack of numbers, sign of the times?
Other Comments by Tyler Durden
25. Comment #132803 by Dhamma on February 25, 2008 at 8:09 am
If anyone asks me, I find it very important they won't get out of celibacy, so that they can weaken themselves as much as possible. I think this should be one of the ways to attack religious people by emphasizing all their contradictions. One of the ways to win this "war", is by letting them be more aware of all the illogical aspects of their respective religion. Because frankly, they've refused to listen, so we have to get even louder, and I think we're doing a damn good job right now. Eventually it'll pay off. Other Comments by Dhamma
26. Comment #132804 by Ygern on February 25, 2008 at 8:10 am
Are we caring about this anymore?I mean, seriously, I know I don't give a tinker's cuss.
Other Comments by Ygern
27. Comment #132811 by hungarianelephant on February 25, 2008 at 8:19 am
Tyler - You're a northsider? I'm looking out over the bay towards Blackrock right now.Last time out, Richard "defend the indefensible" Bruton topped the poll here. But then his opponents were: Spawn of Haughey, Ivor Freebie, Derek McDowell, some very intense woman who claimed to be a Green, Finian McGrath (who makes Jackie Healy-Rae look like a sane, principled gentleman) and the Shinners.
But if you don't vote, the wrong lizard might get in.
Even so, I'm minded to agree with emmet. The indemnity deal was an absolute disgrace, & almost certainly unconstitutional.
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
28. Comment #132814 by Vaal on February 25, 2008 at 8:23 am
On a separate note, has anyone seen the film "Evelyn" with Pierce Brosnan. A very moving film, about the power of religion over peoples rights in Ireland in the 1950's. A real eye opener! Highly recommended, and a very good pointer for religion not playing any part in a secular society (although the ArchBishop would probably disagree).There is also the added bonus of "Father Jack" playing as Evelyn's grandfather. See if you recognise him!
Other Comments by Vaal
29. Comment #132815 by hungarianelephant on February 25, 2008 at 8:25 am
Evelyn - Fine film, if with a slightly corny ending. I'd add The Magdalene Sisters and Song For A Raggy Boy. Other Comments by hungarianelephant
30. Comment #132819 by Tyler Durden on February 25, 2008 at 8:34 am
Yep, grew up in Raheny, then onto Coolock. As the old joke goes: what does a northsider use for protection? A bus shelter :) Other Comments by Tyler Durden
31. Comment #132823 by mikeshin on February 25, 2008 at 8:40 am
We have grammar and spelling police here, where are the math police...."the number of priests will halve from 4,752 to 1,500"
4.752/2 = 2376 perhaps it is meant to read 2,500
BTW here in Western NY the Catholic diocese is closing a bunch of churches in the city...Yeah! too bad about the new MEGA churches being built in the suburbs though...Two steps forward, one back
Other Comments by mikeshin
32. Comment #132826 by NormanDoering on February 25, 2008 at 8:48 am
Geoff wrote:Good news for the future choirboys.
Not necessarily. Not Catholic ones. It won't be the pedophiles who leave the Catholics to get married.
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/01/do-pedophile-priests-really-believe.html
Other Comments by NormanDoering
33. Comment #132830 by MPhil on February 25, 2008 at 8:55 am
Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking, voting in a former Hitler Youth.
Now that's a bit of a low blow. Pretty much everyone was in the HJ back then, including many that grew up to be good and decent people. Some of them were deluded, some just didn't care and thought it a nice activity. Generally, criticising someone for that is like criticising someone who was baptized as a baby and brought up in the church community but then saw the error of that for once having belonged to that organisation.
As much as I dislike Ratzinger, he definitely isn't a Nazi. In fact he was partly responsible for some of the liberalisation of the catholic church in Vatican II. He only became a hardened conservative when the '68-youth revolt got to the universities and disrupted seminars, even using physical force - and later supported extreme left 'revolutionary forces', some of which were genuine terrorists.
To be sure, the 68-university revolution had a lot of good effects, but I have no problem seeing how it could have driven Ratzinger to be a conservative. The RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion, German extreme-left terrorist organisation from the 70s to the early 90s) proved that the movement was to some extent dangerous. Of course I don't support Ratzinger's decision.
As recently as last week, a German Catholic archbishop criticized celibacy as outdated and scripturally unnecessary. So far, I haven't read of any call from Rome to retract this statement.
Another catholic archbishop made a public statement that celibacy isn't open for debate at this time. I think that was the Vatican's answer.
Other Comments by MPhil
34. Comment #132833 by bladesman on February 25, 2008 at 9:06 am
Candidates must be men who have a good knowledge of the Gospel, a well-established spiritual life
Anyone know exactly what a 'well-established spiritual life' might entail?
Other Comments by bladesman
35. Comment #132834 by stereoroid on February 25, 2008 at 9:09 am
I've long wondered what school Career Days are like, here in Ireland:"Hi, young man, want to be an airline pilot? You get to see the world, and fly!"
"Sonny, join the Army, defend your nation, and bring peace to the world!"
"No, you want to become an engineer! The world needs smart and educated people to build the future."
"If you're really smart, and you care about healing people, become a doctor! The nurses are cute, too..."
"Join the priesthood! You don't have to worry about girls, ever again, since you can't get married. You get to spread Bronze Age myths which turn people in to sheep, but you get to be their shepherd. They will all trust you, especially the young children..."
Other Comments by stereoroid
36. Comment #132836 by Ian Bamlett on February 25, 2008 at 9:10 am
Unfortunately, whilst the horror that is Catholicism may be dying the death of a thousand cuts in Ireland and possibly Europe it's going strong in Latin America. It is also enjoying a resurgence in the USA with the influx of immigrants, (legal or otherwise), to the USA from Mexico and other Latin American countries.
One of the major supporters of the legalization of the estimated ten or twenty million (pick your number), illegal aliens in the USA is the Catholic Church. They can't wait to fill their pews with these people and take their money.
Other Comments by Ian Bamlett
37. Comment #132840 by emmet on February 25, 2008 at 9:18 am
hungarianelephant wrote: So we'll put that down as "No I won't be voting for the Soldiers of Bribery next time, thank you."
Damn straight. Even though I haven't lived in Ireland for the last couple of years, I follow Irish politics pretty closely (I usually watch "Prime Time" and "Questions and Answers" online). The last election really shocked me: the Irish electorate either don't give a damn about corruption or haven't twigged that the "Soldiers of Bribery", as you put it, haven't had a leader with even the appearance of honesty or integrity in 30 years. Apart from tribunals galore, indemnifying the Church, for facilitating and protecting child rapists, at the taxpayers' expense was a total disgrace.
Edit: spelling
Other Comments by emmet
38. Comment #132849 by al-rawandi on February 25, 2008 at 9:42 am
Ian,
Was the church allied with teh fascists supported by the US or the communists supported by the Soviets in S. America. I can't remember where they came down on that one.
I need to re-read Chomsky.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
39. Comment #132872 by 82abhilash on February 25, 2008 at 10:52 am
If the influence of the Catholic church is waning, maybe there is a chance for enduring peace in Ireland. Who knows maybe a secular Northern Ireland and a Secular Republic of Ireland will have too much in common that they might as well integrate.Other Comments by 82abhilash
40. Comment #132877 by emmet on February 25, 2008 at 11:02 am
Anyone know exactly what a 'well-established spiritual life' might entail?
Membership of Opus Dei and/or obsequious willingness to defer to octogenarian male virgins, who shield child rapists from the law, in matters of sexual morality.
Other Comments by emmet
41. Comment #132878 by Noodly on February 25, 2008 at 11:02 am
Interesting article on the history of celebacy in the priesthood: http://www.ejhs.org/volume2/walsh/walsh1.htm Other Comments by Noodly
42. Comment #132882 by rod-the-farmer on February 25, 2008 at 11:08 am
From my limited experience, a lot of the reduction in numbers of people called to be priests or nuns is aligned very closely with the loss of a faithful congregation. I hear many Catholics expressing deep disgust at all the stories of kiddie-diddlers among the priesthood. That HAS to translate into disapproval, either on a personal level, or from your family & friends, if you were considering signing up. It would be bad enough if it happened only in one parish, or only in one country, but this phenomenon has reached pretty much every corner of the Catholic world. I have met some RC priests, some in my families home, and to think that almost every one of them either participated, or condoned this sort of thing, makes me want to wash my hands. I am not yet certain if this loss of faith among the RC community will drive many of them into rationality, and the atheist camp. Worth watching, and maybe a question for future census takers. Other Comments by rod-the-farmer
43. Comment #132891 by Bonzai on February 25, 2008 at 11:25 am
Steve,My understanding of why celibacy was introduced was to prevent wives from inheriting part of the property and wealth of the catholic church.
Anyone know if this is true?
I read that some priests working in wealthy parishes actually became quite wealthy, when the priest died the wealth passed on to the wife and children. But if the priest died without family, the Church would inherit the wealth. So the Church created the celibacy rule in order to get a hold of the wealth left by dead priests. The rule was introduced only in the 11th century if I remember correctly.
Cartomancer would be the person to answer this question in detail.
Other Comments by Bonzai
44. Comment #132927 by Cartomancer on February 25, 2008 at 12:11 pm
As always there is a combination of factors at work in the whole clerical celibacy thing. Al-Rawandi has covered a number of them already. The earliest evidence we have for the prohibition seems to be the discussions at the Council of Elvira in 305 AD, where it is considered a matter of holy continence and the need to lead an elevated lifestyle. Later councils in the fourth and fifth centuries came up with similar conclusions. Theologically it is often justified by the old testament story of the inheritance of the tribes of Israel - the tribe of Levi were given no land (and hence unable to go and raise families like the other tribes) so they became the priests, with god as their inheritance (now that's what I call a bum deal).
The catholic church before the mid 11th century was nowhere near as powerful and organised as it became after that - the later eleventh and twelfth centuries saw a massive entrenchment and professionalisation of church institutions at all levels. This goes hand in hand with greater bureacratic sophistication in most other areas of society, increasing economic prosperity, growing populations, etc. Prior to the eleventh century this sort of business was conducted on a local basis - big centralised proclamations from the pope were rare, and the issue wasn't one which it was felt necessary to have a definitive policy on. In practice it seems most priests did pay some lip service to the ideals of celibacy, shored up by the very ancient and powerful european association of virginity and celibacy with special supernatural status. As far as inheritance is concerned the lack of descendants certainly helped the church to maintain a hold on its lands and possessions. The church pretty much insisted on the non-division of its property when it had the power to do so, and this central canon law fiat technically had legal precedence over the civil laws of the land, but individuals might be tempted to go against the church's wishes to feather their own nests, so celibacy was certainly a convenient tool to prevent this. The struggle between the papacy and the Holy Roman Emperor abated toward the end of the eleventh and twelfth centuries, and the process of establishing the legal rights of canon versus civil law began in earnest. This is the time of the great decretal collections of Ivo of Chartres and Gratian, where canon law was codified into a coherent form, and the church began thinking seriously about its institutional presence for the first time.
Actually the eleventh and twelfth centuries saw a considerable rise in concern over the lax morals of many of its celibates - particularly monks and nuns but the secular clergy too. The crackdown is perhaps best seen as the church getting its act together and beginning to behave like the multi-national corporation it had become, rather than leaving everything up to local initiative.
As far as I am aware, however, the injunction on celibacy is not a doctrine, which even the pope could not overturn, but a matter of papal policy, which he could do away with at any moment.
Other Comments by Cartomancer
45. Comment #132930 by emmet on February 25, 2008 at 12:13 pm
to think that almost every one of them either participated, or condoned this sort of thing
TBH, I don't think that's entirely fair. I would be regarded as a harsh critic of the Church, and I wouldn't defend the Church or any of its bishops, archbishops, cardinals, or the Pope, all of whom conspired to facilitate the rape of children and protect those responsible, even now, from the law, but I would say that a lot of ordinary priests, probably the majority of them, simply didn't know that their colleague, two parishes away, was raping children.
Edit: grammar
Other Comments by emmet
46. Comment #132983 by mundusvultdecipi on February 25, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Tyler Durden, Hungarianelephant - nice to see some non-believing Irish in here - Im a northsider now on the southside !PS. Tyler, you forgot the follow-up joke to the bus stop gag:
Q: How can you tell if a northsider has reached orgasm ?
A: She drops her chips. . .
Off-topic AND classy, I know, but I couldnt resist it.
As regards Christian Brothers schools closing my recollection is that about a decade ago most of them left Ireland and returned to education in the developing world as they felt that educating the middle class of Ireland wasnt commensurate with their mission.
Other Comments by mundusvultdecipi
47. Comment #133164 by rivetheretic on February 25, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I am not sure of the cause. But it was with Council of Nicea that celibacy was initiated (325 CE I believe).
I seem to remember reading somewhere that a motivation for the Christian church to have a celibate clergy was that rival religions had celibate cults for mystical reasons. They didn't want to seem like they had a substandard clergy. A kind of "keep up with the Joneses" thing. Was this in "The Jesus Mysteries?" I can't remember.
I'm sure there were many factors though.
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48. Comment #133165 by Diacanu on February 25, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I thought Augustine introduced all the arguments for pussy being evil, therefore, celibacy. Other Comments by Diacanu
49. Comment #133168 by Brian English on February 25, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I think you can go back to Saul of Tarsus for that idea.Other Comments by Brian English
50. Comment #133169 by Radesq on February 25, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Vaal your avatar makes me wonder if Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Conn. had an acting career before taking up politics. Other Comments by Radesq
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1. Comment #132740 by Kevin A Jones on February 25, 2008 at 7:11 am
Yeah Biology!
Plus, this Pope's hard-line tactics seem to be imploding the Vatican. Any thoughts?
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