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Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop
by Independent
Thanks to Eoin for the link.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ban-anticatholic-books-in-schools-says-bishop-794996.html
Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop
By Sarah Cassidy, Education Correspondent
A Roman Catholic bishop has likened books which criticise the teachings of the Church to works that deny the Holocaust took place.
The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, Bishop of Lancaster, told MPs that books critical of the Catholic faith should be banned from school libraries.
Asked if that applied to works by authors such as Karl Marx and Albert Camus, he told the Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee: "Suppose you went into a school and found in the library material that said the Holocaust never took place?"
Fiona McTaggart, the Labour MP for Slough, said she was extremely concerned that Catholic sixth-formers would be denied access to great works of fiction as well as non-fiction if the bishop's ban were implemented. "I would not expect a school to promote material that was lies but I also would also expect children to encounter a wide range of material even if they then need to be given the tools to criticise them," she said.
But Bishop O'Donoghue defended his stance. "I think there has to be a vetting of material given the age range of children in schools," he said. "There is certain material that you do not put in front of them."
The bishop's summons to appear before the committee followed a document he produced last year which angered some MPs because of its strict line on sexual morality.
In Fit for Mission?, Bishop O'Donoghue wrote: "The secular view on sex outside marriage, artificial contraception, sexually transmitted disease, including HIV and Aids, and abortion, may not be presented as neutral information."
"So-called" safe sex was based on the "deluded theory that the condom can provide adequate protection against Aids". He added: "Schools and colleges must not support charities or groups that promote or fund anti-life policies, such as Red Nose Day and Amnesty International, which now advocates abortion."
He said yesterday: "As a Catholic bishop I am very concerned that the executive [of Amnesty International] has taken a decision on abortion".
The committee also heard faith schools were creaming off wealthy and bright pupils at the expense of children from the most disadvantaged homes.
Academics suggested the abuse of the admissions system was widespread, and not limited to Barnet, Manchester and Northamptonshire, which were investigated by the Government.
Professor West and Rebecca Allan of London University's Institute of Education told the committee that almost all religious schools in London took fewer pupils eligible for free school meals than the proportion in their district.
Covert social selection was enabling schools to find information about pupils' social background which could then be used to make admissions decisions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ban-anticatholic-books-in-schools-says-bishop-794996.html
Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop
By Sarah Cassidy, Education Correspondent
A Roman Catholic bishop has likened books which criticise the teachings of the Church to works that deny the Holocaust took place.
The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, Bishop of Lancaster, told MPs that books critical of the Catholic faith should be banned from school libraries.
Asked if that applied to works by authors such as Karl Marx and Albert Camus, he told the Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee: "Suppose you went into a school and found in the library material that said the Holocaust never took place?"
Fiona McTaggart, the Labour MP for Slough, said she was extremely concerned that Catholic sixth-formers would be denied access to great works of fiction as well as non-fiction if the bishop's ban were implemented. "I would not expect a school to promote material that was lies but I also would also expect children to encounter a wide range of material even if they then need to be given the tools to criticise them," she said.
But Bishop O'Donoghue defended his stance. "I think there has to be a vetting of material given the age range of children in schools," he said. "There is certain material that you do not put in front of them."
The bishop's summons to appear before the committee followed a document he produced last year which angered some MPs because of its strict line on sexual morality.
In Fit for Mission?, Bishop O'Donoghue wrote: "The secular view on sex outside marriage, artificial contraception, sexually transmitted disease, including HIV and Aids, and abortion, may not be presented as neutral information."
"So-called" safe sex was based on the "deluded theory that the condom can provide adequate protection against Aids". He added: "Schools and colleges must not support charities or groups that promote or fund anti-life policies, such as Red Nose Day and Amnesty International, which now advocates abortion."
He said yesterday: "As a Catholic bishop I am very concerned that the executive [of Amnesty International] has taken a decision on abortion".
The committee also heard faith schools were creaming off wealthy and bright pupils at the expense of children from the most disadvantaged homes.
Academics suggested the abuse of the admissions system was widespread, and not limited to Barnet, Manchester and Northamptonshire, which were investigated by the Government.
Professor West and Rebecca Allan of London University's Institute of Education told the committee that almost all religious schools in London took fewer pupils eligible for free school meals than the proportion in their district.
Covert social selection was enabling schools to find information about pupils' social background which could then be used to make admissions decisions.
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 77 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #143016 by epeeist on March 13, 2008 at 11:09 am
What is it about the clergy from Lancaster and its environs? First we the Bishop of Carlise claiming that homosexuality caused the floods and now we have another bishop wanting to bring back the Index Librorum Prohibitorum.Time to write to Ed Balls I think.
Other Comments by epeeist
3. Comment #143017 by Ed-words on March 13, 2008 at 11:09 am
The Bishop's comparingHolocaust denial to negative
critiques of Catholicism
shows the intellectual harm
done by a Catholic upbringing.
Is there a Cathoholics
Anonymous yet?
Other Comments by Ed-words
4. Comment #143018 by Duff on March 13, 2008 at 11:11 am
I wholeheartedly agree with the Bishop. Little children should absolutely not be exposed to the history of the Catholic Church. It would be child abuse to expose children to the history of the papacy, the inquisition, the religious wars against heretical nations and people. It is in poor taste to expose little children to the true history of the crusades. And woe be unto anyone who makes little children aware that there are priests and bishops out there who would prey upon...I mean pray for the little ones.Other Comments by Duff
5. Comment #143019 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 11:16 am
Aristotle:
Truth fears no debate
Catholicism:
Criticising us is like denying the Holocaust
Which one do you prefer.
Ironically many Euro states have banned Holocaust denial.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
6. Comment #143020 by pantsandboots on March 13, 2008 at 11:16 am
If I walked into a library and found a book denying the Holocaust, I would think that's just the place for a book to be. Information should be accessible to all, no matter how distasteful the literature in question might be.
Other Comments by pantsandboots
7. Comment #143021 by notsobad on March 13, 2008 at 11:18 am
The bishop's summons to appear before the committee followed a document he produced last year which angered some MPs because of its strict line on sexual morality.
That's not sexual morality; that's sexual stupidity.
Calling their moronic views on sex "morality" is the same mistake as calling the anti-abortion/women movement pro-life.
Other Comments by notsobad
8. Comment #143026 by hungarianelephant on March 13, 2008 at 11:23 am
Asked if that applied to works by authors such as Karl Marx and Albert Camus, he told the Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee: "Suppose you went into a school and found in the library material that said the Holocaust never took place?"
Eh? What sort of an answer is that?
Asked if that applied to works by authors such as Karl Marx and Albert Camus, he told the Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee: "My halibut is turning purple."
There. An answer that makes as much sense, and is slightly more pertinent to the question.
You're welcome, Bish.
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
9. Comment #143029 by scottishgeologist on March 13, 2008 at 11:29 am
But Bishop O'Donoghue defended his stance. "I think there has to be a vetting of material given the age range of children in schools," he said. "There is certain material that you do not put in front of them."
Yes, like the Bible. In particular this gem:
Judges 19 22-29
22Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.
23And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
24Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
25But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
26Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.
27And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.
28And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
29And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
You would be hard pushed to find this sort of thing on snuffx.com or the old Ogrish.com site.
If you made a film of this, you'd probably face prosecution
Bur hey, its in the "Good Book" - the only standard for life and faith. Its the Word of God. And children are encouraged to read this p.o.s.
Groan.....
SG
Other Comments by scottishgeologist
10. Comment #143032 by Geoff on March 13, 2008 at 11:33 am
By his criterion, the bible would be banned, too. Catholic doctrine now admits evolution and "old Earth" chronology as factual.
Presumably he'd ban newspapers, too?
Other Comments by Geoff
11. Comment #143035 by Quetzalcoatl on March 13, 2008 at 11:35 am
More ranting Catholics. I like the bit about not supporting Red Nose Day.
Fucktard.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
12. Comment #143036 by scottishgeologist on March 13, 2008 at 11:36 am
Oh yeah, heres another cracker:
http://www.biblesexstories.com/stories/lot.html
Beaut!
:-))
SG
Other Comments by scottishgeologist
13. Comment #143041 by movingshadow on March 13, 2008 at 11:40 am
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anythingâ€"you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.-Robert Heinlein
Other Comments by movingshadow
14. Comment #143057 by jayalenik on March 13, 2008 at 11:54 am
Bishop O'Donoghue wrote: "The secular view on sex outside marriage, artificial contraception, sexually transmitted disease, including HIV and Aids, and abortion, may not be presented as neutral information."
What is it about people who never get laid?
Oh yeah, they never get laid.
Movingshadow, great Heinlein quote, thanks.
Other Comments by jayalenik
15. Comment #143066 by jimbob on March 13, 2008 at 12:04 pm
First, is there something about the name "Donoghue" that makes people nuts? (see catholic league).Second, did the good bishop actually name any examples of books that should be banned?
Finally, have any of these clowns noticed what happens when religious dogmas are preferred over evidence of effectiveness in planning sex education and anti-aids campaigns (the "abstinence" stuff has really worked in US teens, eh?).
Other Comments by jimbob
16. Comment #143067 by emmet on March 13, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Yes, we should all take our lessons in sexual morality from a septuagenarian male virgin representing an institution that facilitated rape of children. Other Comments by emmet
17. Comment #143069 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Irate_atheistAre you going to reply, or shall I?
Other Comments by Vaal
18. Comment #143071 by yogibear on March 13, 2008 at 12:09 pm
"There is certain material that you do not put in front of them."
Like the penises of priests for one thing.
Other Comments by yogibear
19. Comment #143093 by Philster61 on March 13, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Ive said this here before so hope I dont look foolish in repeating myself but has anybody noticed that since Nazi Hitler Jeugen Ratzinger became head of the Catholic Curch theres been a gradual campaign of the medievalism mentality creeping back into catholic doctrine.I think they want to return to bad old days of burnings and inquisitions.So far we´ver seen a clampdown on abortion,gay marriage,an upgrade of the seven deadly sins.Demands(not calls) for a return to traditional catholic ways.I knew the moment that German became the Pope this would happen.
Other Comments by Philster61
20. Comment #143095 by Sargeist on March 13, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Although it is all pretty absurd, I was most bothered by his referring to the "deluded theory that the condom can provide adequate protection against Aids". I know that some Catholics have been claiming that, unbeknownst to other, less religious, virologists/microbiologists that HIV can nip between the atoms in condoms, but surely this cannot be becoming that widespread that people are starting to believe it in this country? Other Comments by Sargeist
21. Comment #143100 by Nails on March 13, 2008 at 12:55 pm
"So-called" safe sex was based on the "deluded theory that the condom can provide adequate protection against Aids". He added: "Schools and colleges must not support charities or groups that promote or fund anti-life policies, such as Red Nose Day and Amnesty International, which now advocates abortion."
To paraphrase Chrstopher Hitchens,
comments like this cannot be answered, merely underlined.
Other Comments by Nails
22. Comment #143106 by Mitchell Gilks on March 13, 2008 at 1:06 pm
A Roman Catholic bishop has likened books which criticise the teachings of the Church to works that deny the Holocaust took place.
WTF!! I had to double take on that. Did he just compare the denial a documented genecide of 6 million individuals to criticism a belief about magic beings?
Does he think that holocaust was so trivial? That sick old fuck, I hope he dies a horrible death. Making light of genecide...
I think we need a fucktard of the year award. I nominate this asshole.
Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks
23. Comment #143168 by Gustaf Sjoblom on March 13, 2008 at 2:55 pm
It certainly seems like while it takes some delusion to be religious, you need to be seriously whacked to be a bishop.Other Comments by Gustaf Sjoblom
24. Comment #143178 by black wolf on March 13, 2008 at 3:09 pm
They keep sputtering that condom nonsense because they think adequate=absolute. Just like the only adequate morality is absolute morality. I bet they would ban the theory of relativity too. In fact, they'd ban light. Light speed is just not absolute enough for them. On the other hand they are only relatively semi-intelligent themselves. Other Comments by black wolf
25. Comment #143191 by w1lp33 on March 13, 2008 at 3:35 pm
.... ill agree to his statement that children should not be exposed to certain material at certain ages when he's willing to apply it to himself.why should the catholic church get a 5-10 year headstart on its criticism? when catholics ban the teaching of its doctrines to schoolchildren until their old enough, THEN we can have a discussion about banning literature critical of it.
Other Comments by w1lp33
26. Comment #143193 by Noodly on March 13, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Unfortunately the term "catholic bishop" is associated with "paedophile in charge" or "paedophile supporter deliberately evading the law" rather than "upholder of the law, especially regarding children".
If anyone knows anything different then please respond.
Other Comments by Noodly
27. Comment #143195 by DamnDirtyApe on March 13, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Because of the way this discussion has gone, and my friend sent me this link earlier, i felt COMPELLED to spread the good news:The LOLcat bible! I can has rapture?
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Judges_19
Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe
28. Comment #143196 by Bonzai on March 13, 2008 at 3:53 pm
They should ban faith schools instead.In a way it is good that the Bishop speaks up. He is probably digging his own grave if his outlandish opinions raise enough eye brows, this is afterall the U.k and not some Eastern European country where the Church is held in the highest regard.
PS Is this the same guy who thinks gays should be in jail on the other thread?
Other Comments by Bonzai
29. Comment #143201 by Bonzai on March 13, 2008 at 4:11 pm
ut surely this cannot be becoming that widespread that people are starting to believe it in this country?
No, I don't think so.
I quote:
The bishop's summons to appear before the committee followed a document he produced last year which angered some MPs because of its strict line on sexual morality.
and this
The committee also heard faith schools were creaming off wealthy and bright pupils at the expense of children from the most disadvantaged homes.
It seems the Bishop was asked to explain himself to a hostile audience who demanded to know WTF was going on. By all indications, he was put on the hot seat instead of being treated as a rock star in concert by an adoring crowd.
Other Comments by Bonzai
30. Comment #143202 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:19 pm
A Roman Catholic bishop has likened books which criticise the teachings of the Church to works that deny the Holocaust took place.
The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, Bishop of Lancaster, told MPs that books critical of the Catholic faith should be banned from school libraries.
BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!
BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!
BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!
BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!
....is the only proper reply to such assertions.
Other Comments by Diacanu
31. Comment #143205 by octopus on March 13, 2008 at 4:25 pm
The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, Bishop of Lancaster, told MPs that books critical of the Catholic faith should be banned from school libraries.
I have even better idea. Why not simply burn libraries with such books and readers in them?
Other Comments by octopus
32. Comment #143207 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:29 pm
octopus-
I have even better idea. Why not simply burn libraries with such books and readers in them?
Oh, they can't be that overt anymore, like in the good old days.
But, they can hope and pray a lone nut from their congregation will.
Other Comments by Diacanu
33. Comment #143209 by BicycleRepairMan on March 13, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Diacanu: I dont know if you read my comment, but I'm happy to see you concur :) Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan
34. Comment #143210 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:40 pm
BicycleRepairMan-Lol, no, I didn't see that.
Saw the headline, and jumped right in.
Great minds I guess.
Other Comments by Diacanu
35. Comment #143220 by Apathy personified on March 13, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Mitchell Gilks, I concur, fucktard of the year for this twat, although he has tough competition from the burke on todays other catholic bishop thread.It's been said before, but it needs repeating,
1. Why do scaly old men virgins try and give sex advice?
2. Getting rid of books from schools that don't follow his exact ideals (from the catholic god a.k.a. sky paedophile)? What a useless old fascist, bet he was a Nazi collaborator in WW2.
Other Comments by Apathy personified
36. Comment #143237 by 82abhilash on March 13, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Bishop O'Donoghue shame on you, using a flase dichotomy to restrict free speech. Fucktard is a word that I will use on you today.Other Comments by 82abhilash
37. Comment #143243 by Russell Blackford on March 13, 2008 at 5:55 pm
I'd love these cute and cuddly Catholic Bishops, as I do all the exotic mega fauna found on this wonderful planet, except that they are so much more dangerous than lions, tigers, bears, hippos, gorillas, giraffes, professional wrestlers, Paris Hilton, and so on.Other Comments by Russell Blackford
38. Comment #143266 by dragonfirematrix on March 13, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Oh, the purity of the judgmentally of the religious...
The religious answer to nearly everything seems to be...
Ban this, ban that, ban everything.
So, if we ban everything, the planet will be a better place??? ...right?
Other Comments by dragonfirematrix
39. Comment #143267 by troyreynolds86 on March 13, 2008 at 7:47 pm
So are we to assume that the good bishop is quite fine with books that defame the Muslims, COE and the Mormons, just so long as they have nothing nasty to say about the house of a thousand baby-rapers? Why, oh kind and godly sir, does yours deserve such special consideration?Also, seems a little sleezy to me to compare critiques of a historical narrative supported by precisely zero evidence to a historical event supported by mountains. Such comparisons seem the creation of the most ignorant minds.
Troy
Other Comments by troyreynolds86
40. Comment #143268 by HourglassMemory on March 13, 2008 at 7:51 pm
"So, if we ban everything, the planet will be a better place??? ...right?"Well when you think about it, dragonfirematrix, it is, after all, the quickest way for them to find THEIR peace of mind.
If only the entire world agreed with them, we would be at peace a long time ago, living like robots, as if going through cleansing process to get into heaven.
And now that I think of it...
Imagine if nothing suicidal happnened, like someone thinking about the apocalyspe and the return of the messiah.
Imagine all this unspecified number of generations, constantly coming out from previous generations and doing this repetetive life style, praying to god and banning, if not outright killing deviant minds, for an unspecified number of milleniums.
This is Peace, in their mind.
How boring can you get? It's like these people don't think of the consequences of their 'oh so ideal actions and duties.
Ack!
For one thing, I'm glad people like us exist. They make things more interesting, if not outright change the course of humankind for the better.
Other Comments by HourglassMemory
41. Comment #143271 by Plan 9 on March 13, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Nothing to do with the topic here, but Scottishgeologist...you have a great avatar. Bicyclerepairman...I think I know who you are...you are Ken Superman aren't you? Other Comments by Plan 9
42. Comment #143301 by Sargeist on March 14, 2008 at 12:25 am
Thanks for pointing those out to me, Bonzai. As usual, I read the story, found a bit that got my blood boiling and didn't stop to think about the other issues.I should have been immediately heartened by the fact that the story exists at all: this already intimates what the BBC's attitude towards the views is. If the opinions of this madman were perfectly reasonable, there probably would have been no story.
However, when I went to the (gorgeous and wonderfully information-ful) Parliament website yesterday to find the transcript of the bishop's evidence, I found that it was not yet there. Based on the dates of the evidence that one can access, it looks like we might have to wait 2 weeks to see the full thing. Unless I've just missed it being under my nose?
Other Comments by Sargeist
43. Comment #143306 by Richard Morgan on March 14, 2008 at 1:05 am
MUSICAL PORTRAITS - UPDATEBryan English : he is a lovely, unpretentious person, who humbly tries to avoid appearing perfect by composing songs.
Bryan of Oz
http://www.myspace.com/fleabytes
Other Comments by Richard Morgan
44. Comment #143338 by Darwin's badger on March 14, 2008 at 2:49 am
Asked if that applied to works by authors such as Karl Marx and Albert Camus, he told the Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee: "Suppose you went into a school and found in the library material that said the Holocaust never took place?"
I guess Holocaust-denying books would be removed due to the fact that they fly in the face of valid evidence. Whereas that paragon of historical validity, the bible...
Other Comments by Darwin's badger
45. Comment #143455 by Azven on March 14, 2008 at 6:02 am
Is this aimed at Philip Pullman ?
Is the Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, Bishop of Lancaster getting too much publicity because of this? Surely no one is going to take this seriously and start removing books from schools and libraries?
Other Comments by Azven
46. Comment #143462 by irate_atheist on March 14, 2008 at 6:11 am
17. Comment #143069 by Vaal -Are you going to reply, or shall I?My lord and master has responded already - 11. Comment #143035 by Quetzalcoatl
But may I add, for the record, what is it with these monumentally ignorant, deluded, lying, fucktards?
Other Comments by irate_atheist
47. Comment #143469 by Jonathan Dore on March 14, 2008 at 6:23 am
British Catholic bishops seem to be getting more aggressive in exposing their prejudices recently; I wonder if this is some concerted new policy?The more clear it is that such people wish to use church control of schools to push an obscurantist and illiberal agenda, the less defensible the whole concept of "faith schools" will become. Amen to that.
Other Comments by Jonathan Dore
48. Comment #143470 by j.mills on March 14, 2008 at 6:26 am
On the narrow point, Holocaust-denial books might legitimately be excluded from libraries with finite resources on the grounds that they are *bad* history, as in, dishonest and discredited by the historian's peers.
That's a far cry from *banning* something, much less banning it because it's uncomfortable but true. These guys don't need us to make fools of them.
Other Comments by j.mills
49. Comment #143478 by irate_atheist on March 14, 2008 at 6:33 am
48. Comment #143470 by j.mills -These guys don't need us to make fools of them.I am of the opinion that they need us to show people what fools they are. We should publicise their idiocy and decry it for what it is.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
50. Comment #143479 by al-rawandi on March 14, 2008 at 6:38 am
irate,
Simply underline. Simply underline.
Credit to Hitchens.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
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1. Comment #143013 by BicycleRepairMan on March 13, 2008 at 11:02 am
Blow it out your ass.
Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan